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Post by sissyk on Nov 11, 2018 2:24:21 GMT
what does confrontation even look like here? "hey buddy. are you gonna look into all your childhood wounds and internal pain and dysfunction soon so i can get what i want from you? cause if not, i love you but buhbye!!!!" lol but seriously, attachment injury recovery is not primarily for a partner in the case of a DA- it's for healing pain that's important to the DA. it's deep stuff, and takes years. we aren't relationship centric, conditioned to be that way through early neglect and abuse. it's more than stepping up for a person who wants what we aren't offering. this is my perspective as a DA- this all seems so predatory in a way. and selfish. Whoa. I am very happy to learn from people's experience here and am very grateful for them. Predatory and selfish and out of bounds seems like a needlessly aggressive characterization on my wanting more information from people who have experience in a situation that I find confusing and is new to me. I am not looking for a secret decoder ring to drag him into my lair. He approached me on a dating site, bemoaning how lonely he was. There is some cognitive dissonance jet lag to that. I am a complicated human who is having real if confusing feelings for another complicated human and trying to sort them out. I am a quick study but have never dealt with a DA before and I value him and want to see if I can understand his perspective and not terrify him off before I throw in the towel As noted, he has said he is bad at relationships and he feels I am rushing him. I know that bodes ill. The chorus here seems to agree. But he has also said he wants to see where things go, hung in there when I asked him directly if he was done, and says that he feels I "get" him. He seems confused himself. It is not "selfish" to want to try to understand what I am dealing with. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 2:38:08 GMT
what does confrontation even look like here? "hey buddy. are you gonna look into all your childhood wounds and internal pain and dysfunction soon so i can get what i want from you? cause if not, i love you but buhbye!!!!" lol but seriously, attachment injury recovery is not primarily for a partner in the case of a DA- it's for healing pain that's important to the DA. it's deep stuff, and takes years. we aren't relationship centric, conditioned to be that way through early neglect and abuse. it's more than stepping up for a person who wants what we aren't offering. this is my perspective as a DA- this all seems so predatory in a way. and selfish. Whoa. I am very happy to learn from people's experience here and am very grateful for them. Predatory and selfish and out of bounds seems like a needlessly aggressive characterization on my wanting more information from people who have experience in a situation that I find confusing and is new to me. I am not looking for a secret decoder ring to drag him into my lair. He approached me on a dating site, bemoaning how lonely he was. There is some cognitive dissonance jet lag to that. I am a complicated human who is having real if confusing feelings for another complicated human and trying to sort them out. I am a quick study but have never dealt with a DA before and I value him and want to see if I can understand his perspective and not terrify him off before I throw in the towel As noted, he has said he is bad at relationships and he feels I am rushing him. I know that bodes ill. The chorus here seems to agree. But he has also said he wants to see where things go, hung in there when I asked him directly if he was done, and says that he feels I "get" him. He seems confused himself. It is not "selfish" to want to try to understand what I am dealing with. as a DA who has suffered from dismissive attachment all my life until recently, my perspective is that pressuring for a relationship and the other poster's idea of confrontation to see if he wants to work toward secure when he has already expressed his position, seems predatory and selfish to me. the reason is, these are deep painful issues and so many people seem to have the idea that it's about stepping up to meet ther expectations rather than doing deep and painful work to heal. it's a different perspective than you were looking for but it is in fact my perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 2:45:31 GMT
what does confrontation even look like here? "hey buddy. are you gonna look into all your childhood wounds and internal pain and dysfunction soon so i can get what i want from you? cause if not, i love you but buhbye!!!!" lol but seriously, attachment injury recovery is not primarily for a partner in the case of a DA- it's for healing pain that's important to the DA. it's deep stuff, and takes years. we aren't relationship centric, conditioned to be that way through early neglect and abuse. it's more than stepping up for a person who wants what we aren't offering. this is my perspective as a DA- this all seems so predatory in a way. and selfish. Whoa. I am very happy to learn from people's experience here and am very grateful for them. Predatory and selfish and out of bounds seems like a needlessly aggressive characterization on my wanting more information from people who have experience in a situation that I find confusing and is new to me. I am not looking for a secret decoder ring to drag him into my lair. He approached me on a dating site, bemoaning how lonely he was. There is some cognitive dissonance jet lag to that. I am a complicated human who is having real if confusing feelings for another complicated human and trying to sort them out. I am a quick study but have never dealt with a DA before and I value him and want to see if I can understand his perspective and not terrify him off before I throw in the towel As noted, he has said he is bad at relationships and he feels I am rushing him. I know that bodes ill. The chorus here seems to agree. But he has also said he wants to see where things go, hung in there when I asked him directly if he was done, and says that he feels I "get" him. He seems confused himself. It is not "selfish" to want to try to understand what I am dealing with. additionally, you expressed there may be a tipping point where your annoyance and pain outweigh the good, but you aren't quite there. i take this to mean you do have annoyance and pain. you have a desire to achieve something with him he isn't explicitly offering and seem to have some annoyance. i do find it selfish to pursue your agenda in spite of what he has expressed about being pressured and rushed by you. we will have to agree to disagree on that. i don't know everything about your situation, just what you shared and asked advice on. I'm a DA who cringes when i read stuff like this because it totally minimizes what dismissive attachment is about, imho. so you were hoping for some insight on that and i offered mine. you are free to disregard it and even block me, that's totally understandable if i made you uncomfortable and i wouldn't take it personally. it's a diverse community here and we don't always see eye to eye. best to you. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 11, 2018 3:08:28 GMT
I wonder if some of the "get out now" advice on this thread is projection on others' parts-- I don't think we know you well enough at this point to know whether or not what this man offers is enough for you. I agree with others that you should be honest with yourself about that. Maybe if it was enough then you wouldn't be here on the boards questioning, but I also don't want to make that decision for you... And if you decide he can't fulfill your romantic needs, it may be easier to stay friends and continue the great conversations and equestrian-related sharing and so on if you figure out now that romance isn't in the cards.
I do think your use of the word "fascinating" to describe him may be telling. There is something about that word that concerns me but I am not sure how to articulate why. Maybe it suggests you are seeing more of what he represents than who he is, or it just suggest some distance, or that you are projecting some idea onto him, or just that it can be a telltale sign of the AP-DA dynamic. I'm biased in this regard as everyone I've found "fascinating" turned out to be highly destructive (or at least the friendship did). I think sometimes the desire for someone who can't give what we want can manifest at first as our finding them "fascinating."
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 11, 2018 4:07:09 GMT
Welcome to the board....personally I understand the wanting to have some decoder ring to ensure a correct interpretation of another person's world and actions...especially when they do not mirror your own.
To me it sounds like he is keeping things very casual...if you can do casual...great. The issue comes when the deeper desire is to have something more defined...which is something that only you can determine. I personally would not hang onto the whole "let's see where things go" as anything more then saying if you are willing to explore things casually, so is he...he obviously likes you...but all his warning statements are telling you where he stands right now and now is all you have to go on. I wish you well.
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Post by epicgum on Nov 11, 2018 6:01:16 GMT
The other posters here are more knowledgeable than me and you should probably listen to them, but lets all keep in mind...we all have no idea who this guy is. Is he DA? Is he FA? Is he just weird and kinda lonely? We all change during relationships, going from strangers to loosely connected to sometimes strongly connected, to sometimes deep intimacy and lifetime commitments. We don't know what he is capable of and neither do you. It is also a matter of where he (and you) are on the spectrum. Some of us have really deep dark wounds that we have to work through, some of us have smaller wounds. We have no idea where he is on the spectrum he is. You can't, and shouldn't, try to change anyone and make them something that they aren't. But on the other hand, theres nothing wrong...once you've reached the appropriate place of intimacy of sharing knowledge and inquiring together into the voids of your minds. Don't start with him, start with understanding yourself. And of course...since you asked about it, I am totally projecting on you my own wish that I'd become aware of this stuff earlier, so...take my words with a grain of salt.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 8:09:58 GMT
confront him?!! it seems as though she might have to confront herself. he's pretty clear on his overall willingness and expectation. she's the one who is being kind of out of bounds asking an internet of strangers if a relationship is possible with a man who said it really isn't likely. this gets really strange to me sometimes. Well, first of all my advice was to be clear about her own expectations. And my second advice was yes, to confront him, which is absolutely not an irrational thing to do. Any person should be in clear about their extent of willingness to participate in a relationship if going into dating. For me that is the only responsible way to make romantic contact to a human being, there are too many emotions at stake and too much insecure attachment to solely rely on cues. Mixed cues will result in insecurity in a secure person ("he likes kissing... we both like talking to each other very much.." vs. "i am bad at relationships" etc) For you, his overall willingness might be clear, but for non-dismissive people they might not. And again, this would rely on cues and not an answer to a simple question: do you even want to be in a relationship or work towards in being one? This is not overwhelming and it is definitely not overstepping boundaries if he started dating in the first place. If he has wounds that is not her responsibility, i can't stress this enough. Dear OP, just trust your instinct of what consists of normal for you. You are the one stepping into a relationship and your needs should matter the most. Don't rely on cues, DAs tend to stay in non-relatioship relationships because the other person is afraid of clearly stating their needs for responsible loving, which in my opinion is the only way love should be. |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 11, 2018 13:17:23 GMT
Thank you all so much! This has been really helpful and I appreciate all the perspectives.
After reading your posts, I did read some of Attached and to my surprise the anxious attachment issues resonated with me for sure. I haven't done protest behaviors but I do feel bad when I don't hear from him for days and when we spend time together it hits my reset button. That is textbook and not healthy I can see!
We did spend three hours together yesterday yapping about everything without a pause and laughing lots so I feel we have some kind of real connection. We will see if it stays/ends up "just" a friendship whether I can be ok about that.
Attached as you know also suggests--mind blown!--direct communication about concerns. Yes, I had been hesitant to be too direct as I thought it might send him heading for the hills. Better to have that happen sooner than later, the book suggests, and it is a theme I am hearing here.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 13:22:14 GMT
confront him?!! it seems as though she might have to confront herself. he's pretty clear on his overall willingness and expectation. she's the one who is being kind of out of bounds asking an internet of strangers if a relationship is possible with a man who said it really isn't likely. this gets really strange to me sometimes. Well, first of all my advice was to be clear about her own expectations. And my second advice was yes, to confront him, which is absolutely not an irrational thing to do. Any person should be in clear about their extent of willingness to participate in a relationship if going into dating. For me that is the only responsible way to make romantic contact to a human being, there are too many emotions at stake and too much insecure attachment to solely rely on cues. Mixed cues will result in insecurity in a secure person ("he likes kissing... we both like talking to each other very much.." vs. "i am bad at relationships" etc) For you, his overall willingness might be clear, but for non-dismissive people they might not. And again, this would rely on cues and not an answer to a simple question: do you even want to be in a relationship or work towards in being one? This is not overwhelming and it is definitely not overstepping boundaries if he started dating in the first place. If he has wounds that is not her responsibility, i can't stress this enough. Dear OP, just trust your instinct of what consists of normal for you. You are the one stepping into a relationship and your needs should matter the most. Don't rely on cues, DAs tend to stay in non-relatioship relationships because the other person is afraid of clearly stating their needs for responsible loving, which in my opinion is the only way love should be. i'm just saying that once again, here is a woman who thinks that a man means something other than what he is saying. She wants to learn his language and he's speaking plain English. It's the typical chase of an emotionally unavailable man, isn't it? so rather than focus on understanding him. my opinion is she ought to focus on understanding why she is in an internet forum trying to get some kind of input in a man who she wrote paragraphs about his RESISTANCE. she had much to say about his intentions- the fact he isn't. done means he isn't done doing whatever he is doing. he isn't done accepting whatever SHE is offering. of course she isn't responsible for any wounds he may or may not have. and he isn't responsible for her thiking he means something other than what he has said. if she doesn't want to keep it casual, accept what she is being offered, and "she where it goes" and would rather seee if she can learn his language, make him feel "safe" cl, and get a commitment, that's on her, it's the trap, and she is responsible for her part. that's all i'm saying. and, she apparently has been clear because he feels pressured into a relationship. so yeah, ok, confront away... that's your advice, and i offered my perspective in contrast to it. ultimately it's all about opinions, we all have them. if anyone wants to know what one DA might think about it, well there ya go. it's just an opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 13:24:55 GMT
Thank you all so much! This has been really helpful and I appreciate all the perspectives. After reading your posts, I did read some of Attached and to my surprise the anxious attachment issues resonated with me for sure. I haven't done protest behaviors but I do feel bad when I don't hear from him for days and when we spend time together it hits my reset button. That is textbook and not healthy I can see! We did spend three hours together yesterday yapping about everything without a pause and laughing lots so I feel we have some kind of real connection. We will see if it stays/ends up "just" a friendship whether I can be ok about that. Attached as you know also suggests--mind blown!--direct communication about concerns. Yes, I had been hesitant to be too direct as I thought it might send him heading for the hills. Better to have that happen sooner than later, the book suggests, and it is a theme I am hearing here. Jeb has some good articles on all of the attachment styles on his main website too. and there are lots of posts in the general forum by anne12 on understanding and healing one's own attachment style. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 11, 2018 13:46:34 GMT
Thank you all so much! This has been really helpful and I appreciate all the perspectives. After reading your posts, I did read some of Attached and to my surprise the anxious attachment issues resonated with me for sure. I haven't done protest behaviors but I do feel bad when I don't hear from him for days and when we spend time together it hits my reset button. That is textbook and not healthy I can see! We did spend three hours together yesterday yapping about everything without a pause and laughing lots so I feel we have some kind of real connection. We will see if it stays/ends up "just" a friendship whether I can be ok about that. Attached as you know also suggests--mind blown!--direct communication about concerns. Yes, I had been hesitant to be too direct as I thought it might send him heading for the hills. Better to have that happen sooner than later, the book suggests, and it is a theme I am hearing here. Welcome to the AP club.  . I was going to add....I have been in a very similiar situation.....where I wanted something more then what he could offer. I honestly don't know what to suggest because the chemistry is real...it's just that the intentions can be very different. Be very aware of yourself right now...protect your heart because it is much easier to gain some distance before you get more intimately involved. Be your own best advocate instead of trying to cater to him. Also...I can't do casual....I tried to be casual with him...but my desire to have more security would keep creeping back...and he would sense it and it would create a struggle between his wanting less and my wanting more. In the end, I appreciate the lessons I learned and how it brought me here..but it was an extremely difficult process to go through and now I would not accept that again. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 11, 2018 15:13:32 GMT
The other thing to be very mindful of is the "fairytale stories"....you may have some familiarity with them....this is where you may believe you can achieve with him what other women have not....it is a very AP perspective...feeds into all sorts of rescue type thoughts and behavior but it boils down to this underlying need to earn love and this idea that giving what we think the other person wants will lead to some fairy tale ending. It is pretty darn attractive to think this way when a little girl or boy....however...it is completely detrimental to having a mature relationship where 2 people want to be with each other when the slant of thought is...I can "win him over", even though his past is chock full of red flags and broken relationships. Have compassion for the little girl...but don't go down that rabbit hole of happily ever after.....because he isn't in that hole with you.🙂
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Post by chipper on Nov 11, 2018 16:09:28 GMT
Lots of really great advice here.
I was recently in your shoes, and something I recommend is objective boundaries. Something you can look and determine if you want to continue. Many of the posters her recommend this, but it can be hard to prefect your own heart, especially when you click well with someone, if the standard is more subjective.
For me, I decided to stick with my relationship with an FA, but set the boundary at wanting her to seek therapy. I encouraged it for months, but eventually she broke up with me.
Because she never met my objective boundary, it’s been easier (still not easy) on me to move on and accept that it’s over for good.
Set figure out what you want for you and him, write it down, then give yourself an objective way to measure it.
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Post by sissyk on Nov 11, 2018 16:26:49 GMT
The other thing to be very mindful of is the "fairytale stories"....you may have some familiarity with them....this is where you may believe you can achieve with him what other women have not....it is a very AP perspective...feeds into all sorts of rescue type thoughts and behavior but it boils down to this underlying need to earn love and this idea that giving what we think the other person wants will lead to some fairy tale ending. It is pretty darn attractive to think this way when a little girl or boy....however...it is completely detrimental to having a mature relationship where 2 people want to be with each other when the slant of thought is...I can "win him over", even though his past is chock full of red flags and broken relationships. Have compassion for the little girl...but don't go down that rabbit hole of happily ever after.....because he isn't in that hole with you.🙂 Haha. Totally hear this!!! As I mentioned we are both horse people. And every horse story is a variation of National Velvet. Girl finds down-on-luck horse. Through patience and carrots, gradually earns shy horse's trust. Horse is a diamond in the rough! They win the big race! The crowd roars! At the same time, I am a believer in the growth mindset in most arenas. People can get better at things and change. Of course this would be if HE wants to and I totally hear that is not up to me and signs are not hopeful. But he has told me he suffers from social anxiety in general and has found it hard to approach women in the past and his narrative is that he is regretful he never married had kids etc. But watch the action not the talk I know! |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 11, 2018 17:32:22 GMT
The other thing to be very mindful of is the "fairytale stories"....you may have some familiarity with them....this is where you may believe you can achieve with him what other women have not....it is a very AP perspective...feeds into all sorts of rescue type thoughts and behavior but it boils down to this underlying need to earn love and this idea that giving what we think the other person wants will lead to some fairy tale ending. It is pretty darn attractive to think this way when a little girl or boy....however...it is completely detrimental to having a mature relationship where 2 people want to be with each other when the slant of thought is...I can "win him over", even though his past is chock full of red flags and broken relationships. Have compassion for the little girl...but don't go down that rabbit hole of happily ever after.....because he isn't in that hole with you.🙂 Haha. Totally hear this!!! As I mentioned we are both horse people. And every horse story is a variation of National Velvet. Girl finds down-on-luck horse. Through patience and carrots, gradually earns shy horse's trust. Horse is a diamond in the rough! They win the big race! The crowd roars! At the same time, I am a believer in the growth mindset in most arenas. People can get better at things and change. Of course this would be if HE wants to and I totally hear that is not up to me and signs are not hopeful. But he has told me he suffers from social anxiety in general and has found it hard to approach women in the past and his narrative is that he is regretful he never married had kids etc. But watch the action not the talk I know! Yeh...lost little boys inside of emotionally unavailable men are my weakness. The guy I was talking about earlier has never been married either...and he talks about wanting to get married and have kids (he has a son but never married her), but he also has some social anxiety and has only dated girls who have pursued him. As you may tell....I still have feelings for him even though it has almost been 2 years since he broke up with me, which is why I would prefer to share so that others can choose a more informed direction. |
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. I was going to add....I have been in a very similiar situation.....where I wanted something more then what he could offer. I honestly don't know what to suggest because the chemistry is real...it's just that the intentions can be very different. Be very aware of yourself right now...protect your heart because it is much easier to gain some distance before you get more intimately involved. Be your own best advocate instead of trying to cater to him. Also...I can't do casual....I tried to be casual with him...but my desire to have more security would keep creeping back...and he would sense it and it would create a struggle between his wanting less and my wanting more. In the end, I appreciate the lessons I learned and how it brought me here..but it was an extremely difficult process to go through and now I would not accept that again.