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Post by alissseee on Mar 1, 2019 16:41:21 GMT
I picked up breath right strips. And well said. Neither of us were really willing to back down in that moment. I feel like maybe he's never had to really worry about the things I do. He's 6'5 and can (and has) knocked out full grown dudes. lol. He can practically go anywhere. I tried to back track as well once I got home and called him back. Tried to explain that I was a bit of a raw nerve from a previous relationship and was trying to draw boundaries. I tried to explain why I was upset to the point of leaving, but at that point it was too late. Really, what I see is insecurity and a real lack of empathy going BOTH WAYS. I see a lack of empathy for him in you, the human body can get fatigued and he fell asleep. Do you think he was trying to lock you out? You said you felt taken for granted. So he may have been exhausted, not thinking clearly, surely not thinking ill of you and out to disrespect or endanger you. He fell asleep, in a half hour. All hell broke loose, because of that. I would see it differently if he stayed awake and disrespected you when you handed him the strips he needed. But he fell asleep. And his lack of empathy is coming from truly not knowing how you feel, he could have tried to empathize, sure. But he was already under attack and he didn't. Neither of you were empathetic and caring about the other person's insecurity, feelings, intentions, it was a real emotional clusterfuggg and perhaps triggering abandonment and rejection and feelings of inadequacy and defensiveness in both of you. Anyway; it has happened. Saying he doesn't have the emotional bandwidth of a pebble, I wonder, what do you expect here? Are you being realistic, in your questions here, and in your expectations for the relationship? It seems like a person with AP baggage would be a bad match to a person with FA baggage and a spectrum disorder. What are you really thinking can or should happen here? I don't believe in should, i believe in "is" but my point is- where is your mind at, not where is his mind at, where is your mind at? Trying to be helpful because I find illusions of any kind to be like a thick black blindfold and it's not fun to wear one of those, it's not fun for any of us. Understood. Yeah, about the pebble thing... I guess I just don't like when he positions himself as being for the mature one for not being as open with his emotions. So it's less about his emotionality and more about him trying to regulate my own. I think coming to understand him will be a work in progress... Again, because he's so high functioning, sometimes I gauge his actions on a neurotypical scale and misinterpret his intentions. We have also had previous talks before about both of our abandonment issues (prior to this incident). He has been very sweet and accountable up until this point, but I flew off the handle at the first sign of perceived "disrespect".
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Post by alexandra on Mar 1, 2019 16:51:10 GMT
Asd is often genetically linked so parenting by parents on the spectrum is common. Nothing happens in isolation but expecting a partner with asd to understand your feelings is like expecting a blind person to see..... by adulthood many people on the spectrum have layers of coping mechanisms have been rejected time and time again. Navigation in this kind of relationship is way beyond the scars left by parental neglect and not for the faint hearted. Finding reasons and analysis tends to cloud the issue which is how dies this make you feel? Are you able to navigate this without taking it personally? Would he and you be willing to talk openly about his diagnosis and seek professional help from someone with a xperience in this area? It is a frustrating feeling, but I'm not at the end of my rope. But I can't move forward unless he helps himself as well. Can't all be front wheel drive. He has acknowledged that counseling is probably needed, but hasn't expressed much willingness to pull the trigger. I have a feeling he'll pop back up. In the meantime, I've been trying to research therapists who have experience with autism and/or trauma. I'm honestly willing to put in the work to load the rifle and make things easier for him. All he needs to do is pull the trigger. I do love him and feel that he is worth it. I think I often forget about his struggles being on the spectrum because he's so damn smart and covers it quite well most of the time. Unfortunately, this is overfunctioning on your end. I get that you care about him and you want to help, in addition to problem-solving so he can be what you want. But if he does need help/counseling, he has to be all in and invested in wanting it and taking the initiative to do the work for himself. Him researching his own therapy needs is a way for him to invest in taking steps in the process and show he's serious about it. I've considered helping to that extent without being asked in my AP days, but concluded it's actually showing bad boundaries and not making things easier for the other person. If they wanted to change, and it's not some life or death intervention required issue, then they'd be putting in some work/effort if they were serious about it or at the very least, ask me for help. If they are on the fence, then they aren't going to do the work "for me"... if they think they're doing it for me and not themselves, it won't stick anyway. I have an FA friend with a DA ex husband. The DA wanted the relationship to work, in theory, but put in zero effort to addressing anything. The FA had done tons of self work and therapy and really got a handle on their core issues and outlined an action plan for them both -- very thoughtful, all the right steps to save the marriage as far as I could see: if he was willing to step up and face his DA stuff and be the partner he committed to being. He did the bare minimum of going to some couples sessions for her, but it was really just to try to keep her in it. Try to throw her a bone so she wouldn't leave him but not actually do his half of the real relationship work or his own independent DA + other personal issues confrontation and healing. None of her wisdom or effort helped change anything about him, though she grew enormously herself (still working on earning secure, not there yet), to the extent that she was eventually able to know she truly did all she could and her only option left was to leave. That's why it's so important for both (insecure) partners to be all in and equally invested in the problem-solving. So while I'm sure your guy is great in many ways and you want to help him help himself... it's still a newish relationship. Really assess your own needs and what relationship behaviors you can accept assuming he doesn't ever step up or change, including if you can't "get back" to before.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 16:57:17 GMT
Really, what I see is insecurity and a real lack of empathy going BOTH WAYS. I see a lack of empathy for him in you, the human body can get fatigued and he fell asleep. Do you think he was trying to lock you out? You said you felt taken for granted. So he may have been exhausted, not thinking clearly, surely not thinking ill of you and out to disrespect or endanger you. He fell asleep, in a half hour. All hell broke loose, because of that. I would see it differently if he stayed awake and disrespected you when you handed him the strips he needed. But he fell asleep. And his lack of empathy is coming from truly not knowing how you feel, he could have tried to empathize, sure. But he was already under attack and he didn't. Neither of you were empathetic and caring about the other person's insecurity, feelings, intentions, it was a real emotional clusterfuggg and perhaps triggering abandonment and rejection and feelings of inadequacy and defensiveness in both of you. Anyway; it has happened. Saying he doesn't have the emotional bandwidth of a pebble, I wonder, what do you expect here? Are you being realistic, in your questions here, and in your expectations for the relationship? It seems like a person with AP baggage would be a bad match to a person with FA baggage and a spectrum disorder. What are you really thinking can or should happen here? I don't believe in should, i believe in "is" but my point is- where is your mind at, not where is his mind at, where is your mind at? Trying to be helpful because I find illusions of any kind to be like a thick black blindfold and it's not fun to wear one of those, it's not fun for any of us. Understood. Yeah, about the pebble thing... I guess I just don't like when he positions himself as being for the mature one for not being as open with his emotions. So it's less about his emotionality and more about him trying to regulate my own. I think coming to understand him will be a work in progress... Again, because he's so high functioning, sometimes I gauge his actions on a neurotypical scale and misinterpret his intentions. We have also had previous talks before about both of our abandonment issues (prior to this incident). He has been very sweet and accountable up until this point, but I flew off the handle at the first sign of perceived "disrespect". Yeah, I get it. I think I can really empathize with both of you, but to be honest, Really genuine with you, I personally feel most sad for him, and what happened to him when he fell asleep and woke up to you flying off the handle with the attitude that he had disrespected you. I think you were scared and triggered, and I get it. But if I put myself in his shoes, I think I would feel very unsafe with you, I would feel unfairly maligned and as though my goodness and intention were under fire because I made a mistake when I was sleepy. I'd not trust you to have my back when I'm down. But of course, that is the problem with insecure people. They only have their own backs, really, when it comes right down to it. Until they stop making everything about them.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 1, 2019 16:57:36 GMT
alissseee, also, depending how far on the spectrum he is, routine changes can be REALLY difficult. Moving and making life changes that extensive could practically be traumatic for him and taking up all his own regulation power, and how he handles his own issues may not ultimately be compatible with your needs (and vice-versa).
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Post by alissseee on Mar 1, 2019 17:16:08 GMT
Understood. Yeah, about the pebble thing... I guess I just don't like when he positions himself as being for the mature one for not being as open with his emotions. So it's less about his emotionality and more about him trying to regulate my own. I think coming to understand him will be a work in progress... Again, because he's so high functioning, sometimes I gauge his actions on a neurotypical scale and misinterpret his intentions. We have also had previous talks before about both of our abandonment issues (prior to this incident). He has been very sweet and accountable up until this point, but I flew off the handle at the first sign of perceived "disrespect". Yeah, I get it. I think I can really empathize with both of you, but to be honest, Really genuine with you, I personally feel most sad for him, and what happened to him when he fell asleep and woke up to you flying off the handle with the attitude that he had disrespected you. I think you were scared and triggered, and I get it. But if I put myself in his shoes, I think I would feel very unsafe with you, I would feel unfairly maligned and as though my goodness and intention were under fire because I made a mistake when I was sleepy. I'd not trust you to have my back when I'm down. But of course, that is the problem with insecure people. They only have their own backs, really, when it comes right down to it. Until they stop making everything about them. It was sort of a cumulative thing for me because I'd done a lot of running around and I think that incident just sent me into a state of agitation with the situation. I wasn't loud or super in his face, just expressed that I was agitated. I guess all I wanted in that moment was for him to just say "sorry, didn't mean to fall asleep". But I get in retrospect that he was overwhelmed and needed time to process what was going on. I think I was just frustrated that I kept trying to explain why I was upset and he didn't want to hear it. I think, for me, conflict is more of a means towards a resolution. To him, it means the end must be near.
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Post by alissseee on Mar 1, 2019 17:20:46 GMT
I guess I just wish he'd open up a bit more about what sets him off. I can totally deal with his ups and downs, but it would put me more at ease to have a better understanding of where it's coming from... and being secure in the fact that he cares. As long as I know he cares, I can let his "down" moments roll off my back and just write it off as him being overwhelmed and in need of some time to gather his thoughts.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 1, 2019 17:28:10 GMT
I guess I just wish he'd open up about his triggers in the way I've opened up to him about mine. I can totally deal with his ups and downs, but it would put me more at ease to have a better understanding of where it's coming from... and being secure in the fact that he cares. As long as I know he cares, I can let his "down" moments roll off my back and just write it off as him being overwhelmed and in need of some time to gather his thoughts. I have autistic friends. That seemingly simple back and forth and reciprocity, just isn't. I just wrote a response that is insecure attachment-style forward, but maybe instead of researching therapists for him and you together, you can take the advice given by others above and look more into the challenges to expect when a neurotypical dates someone who isn't. Again, consider if that is a situation that could long-term meet your needs. But if so, you could also try apologizing and telling him you want to learn more about how he sees the world because you want the relationship to be safe for both of you. And discuss what a better communication style might be for him to receive it when you have a concern that needs discussion. If he's a good guy, he'll know there are challenges ahead and if you're both calm and not triggered, you can attempt to do some strictly logical problem-solving. But you have to drop other expectations that he can anticipate or read you or possibly even understand you in times of stress going forward, and he has to be invested enough to also put in effort.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 17:34:37 GMT
I guess I just wish he'd open up a bit more about what sets him off. I can totally deal with his ups and downs, but it would put me more at ease to have a better understanding of where it's coming from... and being secure in the fact that he cares. As long as I know he cares, I can let his "down" moments roll off my back and just write it off as him being overwhelmed and in need of some time to gather his thoughts. You know, it's not easy for someone struggling as he does to communicate- just like it isn't easy for you to avoid your triggers and not abandon him (emotionally and physically, you did it too!) just because your fear of abandonment got triggered. Maybe you two just aren't secure enough for each other. Maybe you're both too needy and insecure to meet each other's needs. I'd say, hey guys, just fix it! But what I see here is you talking more about his insecurity and deficiency than yours, frankly.... like he is the one with be major issue standing in the way. But it says something about your own dysfunction that you're here talking about him and his deficiencies instead of your own. I mean, you know he has abandonment, is on the spectrum, and you need him to make you feel secure? This is not reasonable. I get that that is what you would like ideally- and you're even looking into therapists for autism for him. It seems like you're thinking that if he could just improve, then you would be safer. But security does NOT work that way. Find an attachment therapist for yourself perhaps, and work on being a more secure partner. Maybe He will be inspired by that, you never know. When one person changes, the other has to as well, or the dynamic falls apart and someone leaves. Might as well control what is yours to control- your own emotional security and healing. He needs a secure partner that won't abandon him just like you do. You two are at an impasse and the only thing you can pull the trigger on is your own recovery from your own baggage.
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Post by alissseee on Mar 1, 2019 17:40:56 GMT
I guess I just wish he'd open up about his triggers in the way I've opened up to him about mine. I can totally deal with his ups and downs, but it would put me more at ease to have a better understanding of where it's coming from... and being secure in the fact that he cares. As long as I know he cares, I can let his "down" moments roll off my back and just write it off as him being overwhelmed and in need of some time to gather his thoughts. I have autistic friends. That seemingly simple back and forth and reciprocity, just isn't. I just wrote a response that is insecure attachment-style forward, but maybe instead of researching therapists for him and you together, you can take the advice given by others above and look more into the challenges to expect when a neurotypical dates someone who isn't. Again, consider if that is a situation that could long-term meet your needs. But if so, you could also try apologizing and telling him you want to learn more about how he sees the world because you want the relationship to be safe for both of you. And discuss what a better communication style might be for him to receive it when you have a concern that needs discussion. If he's a good guy, he'll know there are challenges ahead and if you're both calm and not triggered, you can attempt to do some strictly logical problem-solving. But you have to drop other expectations that he can anticipate or read you or possibly even understand you in times of stress going forward, and he has to be invested enough to also put in effort. I understand. I think I need to scrap all the preconceived notions and go back to the drawing board. I need to stop being so caught up in having the upper hand. He's not my abusive ex and I have to keep telling myself this.
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Post by mrob on Mar 1, 2019 17:44:43 GMT
All this diagnosing going around! My goodness. OP, you’re a grown person responsible for your own life. “How do I get back in here” would have been easy. He fell asleep by accident and you “fussed”. What does that mean? Do you have a history of “fussing?” When I’m fussed over, inverted commas or not, I back off. I won’t have it these days. If somebody wants to treat me like a child, I will walk away.
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Post by alissseee on Mar 1, 2019 17:47:24 GMT
I know this snippet that I've given you guys doesn't make it look all that good. It's harder to condense our story into a paragraph. I do love him and am committed to change and self reflection. I think we're both struggling right now to separate the past from the present
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Post by alissseee on Mar 1, 2019 17:48:15 GMT
All this diagnosing going around! My goodness. OP, you’re a grown person responsible for your own life. “How do I get back in here” would have been easy. He fell asleep by accident and you “fussed”. What does that mean? Do you have a history of “fussing?” When I’m fussed over, inverted commas or not, I back off. I won’t have it these days. If somebody wants to treat me like a child, I will walk away. No it's not a regular thing. This was the first time I became agitated to that extent. I was letting him know I was frustrated, and in the moment, it felt like I wasn't being heard, which added to my feeling of frustration. Things went extremely well up until that point.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 1, 2019 18:04:45 GMT
I know this snippet that I've given you guys doesn't make it look all that good. It's harder to condense our story into a paragraph. I do love him and am committed to change and self reflection. I think we're both struggling right now to separate the past from the present This is ultimately the struggle with insecure attachment. Projecting the past into the present in ways that have negative impacts on interpersonal relationships. That's why working through this would take a lot of effort -- both learning to communicate effectively between neurotypical vs not but also focusing on yourself and addressing any anxious tendencies on your own. I think it would have been impossible for me personally to date someone on the spectrum while AP. Constant triggering due to my own lack of ability to self regulate and feeling unloved because I had unrealistic expectations about a partner reading my emotions and stepping in to anticipate and comfort me when I wasn't communicating well. Adding that partner's insecure attachment on top of that is heavy lifting.
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Post by sissyk on Mar 1, 2019 18:05:59 GMT
All this diagnosing going around! My goodness. OP, you’re a grown person responsible for your own life. “How do I get back in here” would have been easy. He fell asleep by accident and you “fussed”. What does that mean? Do you have a history of “fussing?” When I’m fussed over, inverted commas or not, I back off. I won’t have it these days. If somebody wants to treat me like a child, I will walk away. No it's not a regular thing. This was the first time I became agitated to that extent. I was letting him know I was frustrated, and in the moment, it felt like I wasn't being heard, which added to my feeling of frustration. Things went extremely well up until that point. It sounds like you were upset. You get to be even if your response was not perfect. You attempted repair. In a healthy relationship you shouldn't feel there is no margin for your error. You get to be human too. That can be true but you are still getting data about how he reacts to the emotional rough and tumble of life and to minor conflict. You can't always change how someone feels by rational discussion. It felt enormous to him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 18:16:13 GMT
All this diagnosing going around! My goodness. OP, you’re a grown person responsible for your own life. “How do I get back in here” would have been easy. He fell asleep by accident and you “fussed”. What does that mean? Do you have a history of “fussing?” When I’m fussed over, inverted commas or not, I back off. I won’t have it these days. If somebody wants to treat me like a child, I will walk away. It's a lot. I mean, if someone wants to see it from the perspective of an avoidant, someone more independent, even with abandonment issues... here it is, and I can get on board with this. It's just so messy.
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