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Post by happyidiot on Apr 12, 2019 16:21:45 GMT
I really like happyidiot s idea - social media use seems to be some n some way an avoidance of fear - fear that b has moved on. If you can face this fear be acknowledging that all your fear could be reality then you’re empowered to live as you see fit rather than. Avoid reality and live from a small place. Not sure I am explaining it properly but I see a lot of story weaving from tnr9 which prolongs the pain by clinging to ideas about b - let go and be free to experience the pain and you are free! I get where you are both coming from and acknowledge my self inflicted pain.....I truly think this goes deeper. It obviously does because Bs presence or absence on social media in itself should not be triggering....it is the swirling thoughts and stories I associate to his presence and absense that are the triggering factor. It also seems that more stress=more checking=more thoughts and more stories. Being stressed also means being more regressed and less capable and so again....more stories. Right now I noticed b has not been on IM for a while and that thought...he is with someone came into my head...but...because I have more capacity at the moment...the thought just floated by and did not impact me. There is definite growth that I am seeing in me....I just tend to post here when things get bad and the thoughts do impact me and bloom. I found it so interesting that I have basically trapped myself in a no win situation....On IM...talking to a girl, off IM..with a girl. These thoughts did not start on their own so I am trying to figure out where they started and finally address the root so I can be free that way. I honestly tried to give in to the stories at one point....but remembering that stories=less capacity=more regressed....I could not....that is where “hope” comes in. It is hard to describe for someone who doesn’t have AP tendencies....but it is as if you cannot hit rock bottom...you can get awfully close...you can get so angry, sad, depressed to the point that you don’t feel anything but pain.....but...then your hope speaks of second chances, silver linings...it looks for glints of something positive in the darkness. I honestly love hope..but hope isn’t any more based on reality then the original thoughts and stories are. Hope simply says “don’t give in, don’t give up...see, here...did you see this, read this, remember this”. It would be fantastic to fully give into hope...she is so positive and...hopeful......but....i can’t do that either.....the moment I am brimming with hope...giddy, happy, joyous....then the other side of the coin comes in and says...”be careful....did you not notice this, see this, read this”...so it is this tiring back and forth....can’t be fully in pain, can’t be fully in hope. So..that was a very long winded way to say....I am blocked by my own AP tendencies from doing what you are recommending. In truth...knowing this isn’t the root...it really is time to go back and address the real root. I would love to get to a point where my emotions, thoughts are not tied to anything that B is or is not doing...I would like to be able to simply say...ok and leave it there, without a myriad of thoughts and stories, dread and hope...just not there yet. Still working on my side of the fence. 🙂 I'm not sure I completely follow. Are you saying it's hard for you to imagine your fears about B are true and move through the feelings that come up because you start imagining hopeful things like that you might get a second chance at a romantic relationship with him? If that's what you're saying, I totally relate to that and have been there, but I don't get how it stops you from trying the technique I use. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 12, 2019 16:28:34 GMT
I get where you are both coming from and acknowledge my self inflicted pain.....I truly think this goes deeper. It obviously does because Bs presence or absence on social media in itself should not be triggering....it is the swirling thoughts and stories I associate to his presence and absense that are the triggering factor. It also seems that more stress=more checking=more thoughts and more stories. Being stressed also means being more regressed and less capable and so again....more stories. Right now I noticed b has not been on IM for a while and that thought...he is with someone came into my head...but...because I have more capacity at the moment...the thought just floated by and did not impact me. There is definite growth that I am seeing in me....I just tend to post here when things get bad and the thoughts do impact me and bloom. I found it so interesting that I have basically trapped myself in a no win situation....On IM...talking to a girl, off IM..with a girl. These thoughts did not start on their own so I am trying to figure out where they started and finally address the root so I can be free that way. I honestly tried to give in to the stories at one point....but remembering that stories=less capacity=more regressed....I could not....that is where “hope” comes in. It is hard to describe for someone who doesn’t have AP tendencies....but it is as if you cannot hit rock bottom...you can get awfully close...you can get so angry, sad, depressed to the point that you don’t feel anything but pain.....but...then your hope speaks of second chances, silver linings...it looks for glints of something positive in the darkness. I honestly love hope..but hope isn’t any more based on reality then the original thoughts and stories are. Hope simply says “don’t give in, don’t give up...see, here...did you see this, read this, remember this”. It would be fantastic to fully give into hope...she is so positive and...hopeful......but....i can’t do that either.....the moment I am brimming with hope...giddy, happy, joyous....then the other side of the coin comes in and says...”be careful....did you not notice this, see this, read this”...so it is this tiring back and forth....can’t be fully in pain, can’t be fully in hope. So..that was a very long winded way to say....I am blocked by my own AP tendencies from doing what you are recommending. In truth...knowing this isn’t the root...it really is time to go back and address the real root. I would love to get to a point where my emotions, thoughts are not tied to anything that B is or is not doing...I would like to be able to simply say...ok and leave it there, without a myriad of thoughts and stories, dread and hope...just not there yet. Still working on my side of the fence. 🙂 I'm not sure I completely follow. Are you saying it's hard for you to imagine your fears about B are true and move through the feelings that come up because you start imagining hopeful things like that you might get a second chance at a romantic relationship with him? If that's what you're saying, I totally relate to that and have been there, but I don't get how it stops you from trying the technique I use. Yes...I cannot go 100% either direction....because the opposite thoughts come to mind. |
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Apr 12, 2019 23:53:19 GMT
I don’t know if this will help you at all but it helped me once. I read about AP and the tendency to constantly try to keep tabs on their partners and how it was a biological drive gone haywire. That at one point in our evolution when we needed mates for survival those of us who had a “seeking tendency” would be more likely to stay with a mate than those without. So if I always know where my partner is or if I loose them I have a drive to find them I am more likely to survive. Also I can identify threats to the relationship and then my mind will work to find ways to eliminate or work around them. Made sense to me. And I also know I am bigger than my most basic biology - that’s the gift and curse of being human. I can identify these traits and the excess of them as neurotic and then work to choose different. Not easily, but I can. (First accept yourself, love yourself, and then change if you want to).
I worked to not change the stories I was telling but to stop telling them. This is, as you said, not an overnight process. It is hard, gut wrenching, feel like your soul is breaking work. Because once i stoped the stories- all i had was the feelings I was trying to avoid.
I would identify I was telling a story- then drop it. 1 second later a story, “oh look I’m doing that thing” drop it. 2 second- “again a story” drop it. Over and over and over until 2 seconds becomes 3. 3 second becomes 4. 4 becomes 5. Then fill that 5 second space with your present surroundings. Fill it with a focus of you and where you are at. Look inside you not out at him. This was (and some days still is) an incredibly frustrating and annoying process. I could not get my mind on anything else and if I had the option to check on him I probably would have. It’s like an alcoholic in a bar. How can you honestly expect them not to drink? Mediation helped- helped me to ask what is it I am clinging to? What is it I am resisting? What’s at the bottom of this?
There is almost certainly something more under all of your stuff with B. But how you will never find it and then heal it with all your focus on him?
Now- my major focus is not on any relationship but the one I have with myself (although I still pop in here from time to time so that’s not 100%- although I can only take so much of my own self reflection!)
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Post by faithopelove on Apr 13, 2019 0:54:56 GMT
I don’t know if this will help you at all but it helped me once. I read about AP and the tendency to constantly try to keep tabs on their partners and how it was a biological drive gone haywire. That at one point in our evolution when we needed mates for survival those of us who had a “seeking tendency” would be more likely to stay with a mate than those without. So if I always know where my partner is or if I loose them I have a drive to find them I am more likely to survive. Also I can identify threats to the relationship and then my mind will work to find ways to eliminate or work around them. Made sense to me. And I also know I am bigger than my most basic biology - that’s the gift and curse of being human. I can identify these traits and the excess of them as neurotic and then work to choose different. Not easily, but I can. (First accept yourself, love yourself, and then change if you want to). I worked to not change the stories I was telling but to stop telling them. This is, as you said, not an overnight process. It is hard, gut wrenching, feel like your soul is breaking work. Because once i stoped the stories- all i had was the feelings I was trying to avoid. I would identify I was telling a story- then drop it. 1 second later a story, “oh look I’m doing that thing” drop it. 2 second- “again a story” drop it. Over and over and over until 2 seconds becomes 3. 3 second becomes 4. 4 becomes 5. Then fill that 5 second space with your present surroundings. Fill it with a focus of you and where you are at. Look inside you not out at him. This was (and some days still is) an incredibly frustrating and annoying process. I could not get my mind on anything else and if I had the option to check on him I probably would have. It’s like an alcoholic in a bar. How can you honestly expect them not to drink? Mediation helped- helped me to ask what is it I am clinging to? What is it I am resisting? What’s at the bottom of this? There is almost certainly something more under all of your stuff with B. But how you will never find it and then heal it with all your focus on him? Now- my major focus is not on any relationship but the one I have with myself (although I still pop in here from time to time so that’s not 100%- although I can only take so much of my own self reflection!) It’s so hard- I get this. The same connection an AP tries to foster and hold onto is often the same one that hurts so much. But then, the complete disconnect from that source also hurts so there’s all this inner conflict and internal push/pull. It’s almost like pick your poison- go to the source and hurt or leave the source and hurt. The only way I’ve been able to break away from painful connection in the past was by going cold turkey, and like you said lilos, stopping or hitting “delete” on those stories or even memories for me. For me to move on, I have to make the person, connection and memories dead to me. It helps to meet someone new- it helps with my rumination. It’s hard though, I get this painful trap. Hugs to you tnr9 💜 |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2019 2:48:36 GMT
I don’t know if this will help you at all but it helped me once. I read about AP and the tendency to constantly try to keep tabs on their partners and how it was a biological drive gone haywire. That at one point in our evolution when we needed mates for survival those of us who had a “seeking tendency” would be more likely to stay with a mate than those without. So if I always know where my partner is or if I loose them I have a drive to find them I am more likely to survive. Also I can identify threats to the relationship and then my mind will work to find ways to eliminate or work around them. Made sense to me. And I also know I am bigger than my most basic biology - that’s the gift and curse of being human. I can identify these traits and the excess of them as neurotic and then work to choose different. Not easily, but I can. (First accept yourself, love yourself, and then change if you want to). I worked to not change the stories I was telling but to stop telling them. This is, as you said, not an overnight process. It is hard, gut wrenching, feel like your soul is breaking work. Because once i stoped the stories- all i had was the feelings I was trying to avoid. I would identify I was telling a story- then drop it. 1 second later a story, “oh look I’m doing that thing” drop it. 2 second- “again a story” drop it. Over and over and over until 2 seconds becomes 3. 3 second becomes 4. 4 becomes 5. Then fill that 5 second space with your present surroundings. Fill it with a focus of you and where you are at. Look inside you not out at him. This was (and some days still is) an incredibly frustrating and annoying process. I could not get my mind on anything else and if I had the option to check on him I probably would have. It’s like an alcoholic in a bar. How can you honestly expect them not to drink? Mediation helped- helped me to ask what is it I am clinging to? What is it I am resisting? What’s at the bottom of this? There is almost certainly something more under all of your stuff with B. But how you will never find it and then heal it with all your focus on him? Now- my major focus is not on any relationship but the one I have with myself (although I still pop in here from time to time so that’s not 100%- although I can only take so much of my own self reflection!) It’s so hard- I get this. The same connection an AP tries to foster and hold onto is often the same one that hurts so much. But then, the complete disconnect from that source also hurts so there’s all this inner conflict and internal push/push. It’s almost like pick your poison- go to the source and hurt or leave the source and hurt. The only way I’ve been able to break away from painful connection in the past was by going cold turkey, and like you said lilos , stopping or hitting “delete” on those stories or even memories for me. For me to move on, I have to make the person, connection and memories dead to me. It helps to meet someone new- it helps with my rumination. It’s hard though, I get this painful trap. Hugs to you tnr9 💜 Thanks for understanding....today I had a mini breakthrough. Earlier I had a story based on one piece of non information....anyone with AP tendencies will know what I am talking about. Thankfully, I had enough capacity to embrace the thought and to acknowledge the pain that thought would bring if real...then i tried to open up some more capacity by saying...what if what I am dwelling on isn’t true...it wasn’t it isn’t true thus there is hope..it was just what if this scenario is not true. And lo and behold...I got different information that pointed to that particular story not being true. I think my new route is trying to open capacity....I think opening capacity will be like opening clenched hands...it will take time.....but at this point...I got nothing but time. |
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Post by faithopelove on Apr 13, 2019 5:25:26 GMT
It’s so hard- I get this. The same connection an AP tries to foster and hold onto is often the same one that hurts so much. But then, the complete disconnect from that source also hurts so there’s all this inner conflict and internal push/push. It’s almost like pick your poison- go to the source and hurt or leave the source and hurt. The only way I’ve been able to break away from painful connection in the past was by going cold turkey, and like you said lilos , stopping or hitting “delete” on those stories or even memories for me. For me to move on, I have to make the person, connection and memories dead to me. It helps to meet someone new- it helps with my rumination. It’s hard though, I get this painful trap. Hugs to you tnr9 💜 Thanks for understanding....today I had a mini breakthrough. Earlier I had a story based on one piece of non information....anyone with AP tendencies will know what I am talking about. Thankfully, I had enough capacity to embrace the thought and to acknowledge the pain that thought would bring if real...then i tried to open up some more capacity by saying...what if what I am dwelling on isn’t true...it wasn’t it isn’t true thus there is hope..it was just what if this scenario is not true. And lo and behold...I got different information that pointed to that particular story not being true. I think my new route is trying to open capacity....I think opening capacity will be like opening clenched hands...it will take time.....but at this point...I got nothing but time. - I understand what you’re saying. I think the AP battle of the mind is the toughest battle of all. The stories we tell ourselves- the familiar script that feels impossible to break. I don’t know how these stories originated or who told me these scripts but they feel as old as my mind and ingrained so deeply as part of me. An example tonight- I texted the DA I see to ask if he wanted to get together either Fri or Sat. I didn’t hear back. An hour went by. A second hour Third. I felt the internal struggle and insecurities and stories I tell myself- he’s tired of me, I annoy him, he’s avoiding me, he doesn’t want to see me. I battled with my vulnerability through 4 hours and chose to cling to a more secure thought that he was at a work function- when he is he rarely checks his phone. I managed to not double text or completely go into anxiety mode. I got take out, watched TV. He texted around 9 pm and sure enough, said that he just got in from a work function. Relief. I felt I passed some kind of test. Then...I went right back to my old script. I asked a follow up question and I didn’t hear back for 20 minutes. I was tired of trying to be patient and secure. It’s exhausting to me. I decided to double text and said that he seemed to be either “beat or distracted so I’d leave him to it.” My reaction was counterproductive as he clearly got annoyed and replied he was just trying to get himself together after walking in the door but “based on my last text, good night.” And with that one...I felt failure. I felt frustration and I felt alone. Once again, I felt I was hurting his sensitive trust with my insecurity. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to fight these demons. I was trying to connect and instead I created a disconnect. I don’t know how to win, maybe I don’t know how to be in a relationship. I realize he could’ve responded differently and instead just offered why he delayed, but I see how I push away when what I what is to pull close. I understand your internal struggle and tiring fight. I’m glad you had a breakthrough. We should celebrate every success and build on it for new, healthier patterns. I think it just takes conscious effort and repeated practice to reboot our systems to a new way of thinking. Or opening clenched hands, as you said. It’s a softening and a brand new way. It’s tough work to fight the old patterns, but not impossible. And maybe, we need to accept we’re not perfect, but progressing. 💜 |
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Post by 8675309 on Apr 13, 2019 12:14:19 GMT
"I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to fight these demons"
Its hard to fight these demos/old patterns when you keep on with someone that triggers these demons/patterns. Its like poking the bear, your poking your demons constantly waking them up. These demons would not surface like this if your were dating an emotionally open man that has your back, stays consistent and can openly communicate feelings/issues. You dont doubt him because hes showing up. Your guy does not have your back, he doesn't even have his own or show up for himself either. He avoids himself and does not want to grow.
Demons can stay asleep if you let go of him and stay alone too, the trigger is gone and you're not poking them anymore.
We all know here how avoidants trigger can the most secure people, its not just those with demons. Im living proof! haha.(not to say secures/Im not demon-less but I hope you get my point)
tnr9, what do think will happen if you deactivate your social media for a while?
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Post by ocarina on Apr 13, 2019 16:30:20 GMT
We can either run from difficulties and suffering or turn toward them in some fashion that enobles us. If we want to discover our own dignity and courage instead of running away or being in denial , we actually turn towards difficulties and trust that our hearts are big enough to hold it all. Follow your hearts values and don't be afraid to lean into the wind, to do things that make you feel uncomfortable. Our lives are always unpredictable but we are free to make choices moment by moment - life is joy and pain and wholeheartedly accepting both is the only way to become really free.
B has said he doesn't want to be a partner for you in a romantic way - his is all that needs to be accepted and truly felt - getting caught in your head in stories of what this or that may mean is a big distraction away from the pain - or maybe or you it's emptiness and sure - it triggers stuff from the past - but this stuff will continue to be in control of your life until you are actually willing and able to experience the raw pain (or whatever else the visceral feeling is) that this elicits - What would happen if you truly let go? I don't mean what would happen in your life - but what would be the feelings in your body that you don't want to experience, that are keeping you stuck in this place.
Life is very short - and so very precious - what's stopping you living it wholeheartedly? - again no analysis or thoughts - what is it that you would experience in your body if you allowed reality to be just as it is, moment by moment?
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Post by ocarina on Apr 13, 2019 16:34:17 GMT
Hey Anne....the whole thinking/explaining part is natural to me....when I read you comment about stopping...I felt equal parts resistance and shame...so will need to dig into that further. I think getting into my body is a bit tough...I have numbed for so long....being way more into feelings than body responses....but I will give it a try. Thinking is a habit - most of us spend most of our lives caught in the stories spun by our heads - but it's not you as such - getting into your body will be tough in as much as the overthinking neural pathways have had a lot of exercise and are strong - but they're not you and they are not set in stone unless you allow them to be. |
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Post by anne12 on Apr 13, 2019 17:28:17 GMT
Someone told me, that she Begins her Day in the morning walking/standing with her bare feet in her garden in the grass for about 5-10 min. feeling the ground, taking in the enviroment.
That helped her to chance her thinking habits from the Day before and also helped her to feel more grounded through the Day.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 13, 2019 19:33:33 GMT
Hey Anne....the whole thinking/explaining part is natural to me....when I read you comment about stopping...I felt equal parts resistance and shame...so will need to dig into that further. I think getting into my body is a bit tough...I have numbed for so long....being way more into feelings than body responses....but I will give it a try. Thinking is a habit - most of us spend most of our lives caught in the stories spun by our heads - but it's not you as such - getting into your body will be tough in as much as the overthinking neural pathways have had a lot of exercise and are strong - but they're not you and they are not set in stone unless you allow them to be. It is a very weird thing to be so emotion based and yet, be so numb to my own body. |
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