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Post by kristyrose on Jun 8, 2019 14:39:37 GMT
Hi T,
Been forever it feels like since I've been on here so I'm behind on where you are at with B. I have read some of your posts and you have been doing amazing work on yourself. I know how hard it can be to keep the momentum going. It's so exhausting! But I have to agree with the others here, especially mrob regarding B's actions. My ex did this kind of fishing with me until I would just ask him to hang and then he'd put all kinds of limitations on what we would do and for how long. Texts like B's would fill me with hope even if they made me pissed or confused or ashamed, so I know there must be some hope in there since he still wants to engage and hang out with you.
I think you are doing an amazing job asking the questions you are asking of both yourself and of him, however, I'd still keep the focus on you like you've been doing. I know you care for him, but ask yourself this, who really cares what he could be thinking? At the end of the day, he knows you have feelings and if he cared enough, he'd stay away. My ex did not so I had to finally walk away and even though there is acute pain, the chronic pain is going away a little each day. I can feel the pain and confusion in your post still, and I get it. The only solution is to break away entirely so you don't have to even wonder why someone would play these games with you. They probably are not intentional games, but they do hurt you and are a reflection of his own pain and confusion which has nothing to do with you.
Imagine what it would feel like to not even wonder what it all means and have the freedom to turn your attention elsewhere?
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 17:27:24 GMT
Hi T, Been forever it feels like since I've been on here so I'm behind on where you are at with B. I have read some of your posts and you have been doing amazing work on yourself. I know how hard it can be to keep the momentum going. It's so exhausting! But I have to agree with the others here, especially mrob regarding B's actions. My ex did this kind of fishing with me until I would just ask him to hang and then he'd put all kinds of limitations on what we would do and for how long. Texts like B's would fill me with hope even if they made me pissed or confused or ashamed, so I know there must be some hope in there since he still wants to engage and hang out with you. I think you are doing an amazing job asking the questions you are asking of both yourself and of him, however, I'd still keep the focus on you like you've been doing. I know you care for him, but ask yourself this, who really cares what he could be thinking? At the end of the day, he knows you have feelings and if he cared enough, he'd stay away. My ex did not so I had to finally walk away and even though there is acute pain, the chronic pain is going away a little each day. I can feel the pain and confusion in your post still, and I get it. The only solution is to break away entirely so you don't have to even wonder why someone would play these games with you. They probably are not intentional games, but they do hurt you and are a reflection of his own pain and confusion which has nothing to do with you. Imagine what it would feel like to not even wonder what it all means and have the freedom to turn your attention elsewhere? Thank you....yes....it was quite apparent that the whole text dialogue triggered me back into a state of wanting to understand him because a part of me felt I had done something “wrong”...I seriously regressed into feeling shame. Like there was 1 right response and a thousand wrong ones and I chose poorly. So instead of looping on him....I am pulling this back to me. How can I strengthen my new boundaries and see this for what it was....a bid to see if I still wanted to see him. For some reason, I had it stuck in my head that if I did the opposite of what he grew up with, that he would be ever appreciative of that....but I forgot how ingrained patterns are within each of us. Doing the opposite probably feels good...but doesn’t spark any desire. I am truly grateful that I can come on here and share opening. Every time I take my power back....just a little...it helps to strengthen me. Thank you so much K. Glad you are finding your footing.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 17:32:08 GMT
Ok...I get that...I really, really do...but I would not have rejected him. I really want to understand this line of thinking because it really is foreign to me and I do care about him. I honestly thought if he wanted to hang out..he would have said...hey...I was thinking of stopping by later today. Are you free? At least then, it would have been clear. I know that if I’ve messed someone around, I’ve got a pretty thick hide to see if they want to spend time with me, or, and I can say I haven’t done this, take advantage of the fact they really like me. Personally, I think it’s low. To take advantage of somebody else’s emotions when you know you won’t give them what they need is a low act. I’d rather disappear than lead someone on. I appreciate that mrob ....and you know there is this part that goes...”but you don’t know B and he isn’t really taking advantage of my emotions”...but I am slowly waking up to the fact that he likely is. He did not even address the text to me....it started with “hey” and I honestly thought for a minute he sent it to me on accident. Such casualness. And nothing is planned..it is all...I was thinking of stopping by later today or tomorrow...ugh.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 17:38:50 GMT
Here is how it went down
B: Hey, I found out yesterday that there is a free concert in x tomorrow. I am pondering going. Me (next day because I went to bed early): you should go...sounds like it will be fun B: I was actually fishing a little bit. I was thinking about seeing if you wanted to hang out (although I have a feeling you probably have plans already) but I am going to stay local after all. Me: Oh...you know you don’t have to fish. I would have loved to see you.i am working from home if you change your mind. No reply.
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Post by kristyrose on Jun 8, 2019 18:22:03 GMT
UGH that kind of text exchange is maddening! I so understand why you replied the way you did though because I would have done the same and my ex did exactly what B did.
This is a prime example of what I said before about getting the reassurance HE needs, while you're left feeling like shit.
T, DO NOT beat yourself up for this. Recognize his actions are all about HIM with total disregard for you. You responded the way any person would have if they wanted to see someone they love and care about.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 19:24:57 GMT
UGH that kind of text exchange is maddening! I so understand why you replied the way you did though because I would have done the same and my ex did exactly what B did. This is a prime example of what I said before about getting the reassurance HE needs, while you're left feeling like shit. T, DO NOT beat yourself up for this. Recognize his actions are all about HIM with total disregard for you. You responded the way any person would have if they wanted to see someone they love and care about. Thanks Kristyrose for the validation that it was not my fault. I am honestly over it...and that is huge for me.I have pushed aside any thoughts that B is selfish for so long...defending his actions by mistakes I make in interpretation, not responding fast enough etc. I think I really need to start looking at these interactions differently....stop putting the blame as it whereas a failure in me and start seeing B as fallible as well. 💕💕💕💕
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Post by ocarina on Jun 8, 2019 20:47:31 GMT
So B reached out the other day with a very casual text that he was thinking about going to a concert in this area and I said....that sounds fun...you should go. A few hours later I get a text from him saying that was kinda fishing to see if we could hang out but since I sounded like I had plans (jump to conclusions much) he decided to stay in his local area. I dislike “fishing” so much...first of all...it presumes I understood that there was more to the text then there was...second....if I don’t interpret it correctly...then i feel like I made a mistake...and that just triggers all kind of shame. I actually think this is good....I am not collapsing into a puddle or beating myself up because he stated something in an ambiguous way and then interpreted my response without confirming with me. It just stinks.
Communication - asking for what you need honestly and allowing others the same is imho vital in good relationships - you only get to choose your own behaviour and look after your own side of the fence. Maybe with hindsight a reply to his initial text could have been asking for clarification? Your reply sounds as though you're protecting yourself, not quite communicating openly yourself.
Working on your own side of the fence is key - if you don't understand then ask, it's as simple as that. None of us should need to be mindreaders. BTW your feelings ie shame etc are your own to handle. Handing them and learning to communicate with vulnerability and clarity would be what I would take from this.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 21:11:09 GMT
So B reached out the other day with a very casual text that he was thinking about going to a concert in this area and I said....that sounds fun...you should go. A few hours later I get a text from him saying that was kinda fishing to see if we could hang out but since I sounded like I had plans (jump to conclusions much) he decided to stay in his local area. I dislike “fishing” so much...first of all...it presumes I understood that there was more to the text then there was...second....if I don’t interpret it correctly...then i feel like I made a mistake...and that just triggers all kind of shame. I actually think this is good....I am not collapsing into a puddle or beating myself up because he stated something in an ambiguous way and then interpreted my response without confirming with me. It just stinks.
Communication - asking for what you need honestly and allowing others the same is imho vital in good relationships - you only get to choose your own behaviour and look after your own side of the fence. Maybe with hindsight a reply to his initial text could have been asking for clarification? Your reply sounds as though you're protecting yourself, not quite communicating openly yourself.
Working on your own side of the fence is key - if you don't understand then ask, it's as simple as that. None of us should need to be mindreaders. BTW your feelings ie shame etc are your own to handle. Handing them and learning to communicate with vulnerability and clarity would be what I would take from this.
True...I could have asked for clarification...and I own that.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 21:44:27 GMT
So B reached out the other day with a very casual text that he was thinking about going to a concert in this area and I said....that sounds fun...you should go. A few hours later I get a text from him saying that was kinda fishing to see if we could hang out but since I sounded like I had plans (jump to conclusions much) he decided to stay in his local area. I dislike “fishing” so much...first of all...it presumes I understood that there was more to the text then there was...second....if I don’t interpret it correctly...then i feel like I made a mistake...and that just triggers all kind of shame. I actually think this is good....I am not collapsing into a puddle or beating myself up because he stated something in an ambiguous way and then interpreted my response without confirming with me. It just stinks.
Communication - asking for what you need honestly and allowing others the same is imho vital in good relationships - you only get to choose your own behaviour and look after your own side of the fence. Maybe with hindsight a reply to his initial text could have been asking for clarification? Your reply sounds as though you're protecting yourself, not quite communicating openly yourself.
Working on your own side of the fence is key - if you don't understand then ask, it's as simple as that. None of us should need to be mindreaders. BTW your feelings ie shame etc are your own to handle. Handing them and learning to communicate with vulnerability and clarity would be what I would take from this.
So...I sent B a text and just stated that I could have clarified things with him and I wished him a happy weekend. Owning my side of the fence!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 22:02:24 GMT
Here is how it went down B: Hey, I found out yesterday that there is a free concert in x tomorrow. I am pondering going. Me (next day because I went to bed early): you should go...sounds like it will be fun B: I was actually fishing a little bit. I was thinking about seeing if you wanted to hang out (although I have a feeling you probably have plans already) but I am going to stay local after all. Me: Oh...you know you don’t have to fish. I would have loved to see you.i am working from home if you change your mind. No reply. Really, I don't see anything wrong with his approach here at all. It seems like more mind fuckery going on in your own head. He believes you want to be friends, right? So he isn't out of bounds contacting you, we know that. Then, he starts a text convo with you and may have been fishing, but who is to say he would not have clarified and pursued his intention had you answered the same day? You say you went to bed early- is he supposed to know this? And then you text him the next day and tell him he should go. You mentioned earlier he assumed something about your plans. Well, you didn't answer him and then told him go, have fun basically. Your whole approach could be seen as dismissive if someone wants to analyze. Does it have to be so hard? My goodness. My friends and I text back and forth and clarify all the time without so much drama. It is all so insecure and yes, mind your own side and maybe stop assuming so much yourself? Putting a negative filter on everything? Friends are not usually so uptight with each other so if you really want to be friends cut this guy some slack!!! Just saying.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 8, 2019 22:21:04 GMT
Here is how it went down B: Hey, I found out yesterday that there is a free concert in x tomorrow. I am pondering going. Me (next day because I went to bed early): you should go...sounds like it will be fun B: I was actually fishing a little bit. I was thinking about seeing if you wanted to hang out (although I have a feeling you probably have plans already) but I am going to stay local after all. Me: Oh...you know you don’t have to fish. I would have loved to see you.i am working from home if you change your mind. No reply. Really, I don't see anything wrong with his approach here at all. It seems like more mind fuckery going on in your own head. He believes you want to be friends, right? So he isn't out of bounds contacting you, we know that. Then, he starts a text convo with you and may have been fishing, but who is to say he would not have clarified and pursued his intention had you answered the same day? You say you went to bed early- is he supposed to know this? And then you text him the next day and tell him he should go. You mentioned earlier he assumed something about your plans. Well, you didn't answer him and then told him go, have fun basically. Your whole approach could be seen as dismissive if someone wants to analyze. Does it have to be so hard? My goodness. My friends and I text back and forth and clarify all the time without so much drama. It is all so insecure and yes, mind your own side and maybe stop assuming so much yourself? Putting a negative filter on everything? Friends are not usually so uptight with each other so if you really want to be friends cut this guy some slack!!! Just saying. I just sent him a response that basically said I should have clarified it with him and that I honestly thought he was in the area for a concert...to which he responded...I certainly was texting re hanging out. My last response was “ok,then that was an oversight on my part and I should have clarified it with you.” And he texted back...all is good. I am am not trying to place blame here...I could have asked for clarity...he could have said...Just following up, was hoping we could hang out while I am in your area. These miscommunications happen. And yes...maybe I was pulling a dismissive card initially....I did not realize it at the time...but I see it now. I see that as growth for me....seeing where I veer off the secure path. I do appreciate all the different perspectives here because they challenge me to not be myopic. 💕💕
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2019 23:04:29 GMT
It's mind boggling to me how he got dragged through the dirt on this thread, for trying to reach out and invite you to spend time. You claim to enjoy that. You claim to want to be friends. But his intentions got ripped, before you considered your own communication as possibly dismissive. If you can't be friends then there is no need to pretend to him that you can. But seriously. Is he messing with you like others here and even you seem to suspect? If he knew how he got turned into a villain here for somehow failing by not meeting some expectation he might keep his invitation to himself next time. Does there have to be a villain? A victim? Here he was accused of being selfish. My mind is blown. You have insisted on being his friend. So maybe pick a lane? It's just so hard to understand. It's so negative. It seems that AP can truly be impossible to please just because of their own low self esteem. He coulda woulda shoulda and so could you but it was just a simple reach to maybe make plans. He didn't hear back soon but apparently didn't throw a fit and even clarified his intention on follow up. He wasn't "fishing" secretly and manipulatively was he? Then why admit it? He was just being a guy communicating honestly, expressing interest in seeing you. Was he really supposed to follow up after your dismissive - what was it- protest behavior? What is that? Being unavailable when someone is trying to be available? I just don't even know. So complicated and he was actually being kind, it looks like to me.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 9, 2019 0:00:35 GMT
Just as a follow up....B has agreed to state that he is interested in hanging out in the future so there is no misinterpretation.
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Post by leavethelighton on Jun 9, 2019 0:54:16 GMT
Yeah, yuck that he can't be more direct. I guess he's afraid of getting hurt in his own way?
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Post by leavethelighton on Jun 9, 2019 0:59:08 GMT
I don’t know if I would label it as cowardice....it definitely makes it harder to provide a direct answer. I assume there is a reason why you would want to veil the direct request. Am I off base? T, can you take a step back and have an honest look at this and see how you are actually very familiar with indirect, passive communication that doesn't accurately express your wishes? This is the hallmark of insecure communication and it happens on both sides. I'm sure you have employed fishing in some form or fashion, you might just have a blind spot here because you're overanalyzing his real intentions influenced by hope. Unfortunately I think this is true. It's so easy to think we're being direct or obvious (when we're not) and the other person isn't, when someone else's unclear communication is causing us pain... it is usually both people.
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