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Post by john1234 on Aug 14, 2021 11:44:13 GMT
So I just found this site yesterday. Only learned of attachment style a couple months ago. I am very aware that I was always different when it came to relationships. They seemed to affect me more. Especially during a breakup. It would devastate me. Send me into a spiral of self loathing and despair. I am sure I can look at all of the old posts and pick out the pieces I feel I need, but to be honest I wouldn’t even no where to begin. does anyone have a comprehensive list of what I could do to try and be more secure? Is there a go to list of tools or coping strategies? Sometimes I feel like these things are so ingrained in me that I don’t know if I can change. I want to try my best make myself a better person and partner in the future. I am going through a breakup or break right now I actually don’t know, the woman won’t speak to me and I am in a lot of pain and want to find a way to not go through this anymore. I am attracted to very strong women I am not sure why. Looking back I think most of them were some kind of avoidant and every time I get broken into pieces. I beat myself up for not being good enough. I always felt it was them being to tough to change for me. Me not being good enough for them to try harder. I am now realizing at 48 years old I’ve been wrong the whole time. You would think this should feel like some enlightening moment for me but it is not. It makes me feel like I could have made those relationships better if I would have not done the things that I did. It probably does not help that I am going through one of these heartbreaks right now and all I want to do is fix it and feel better. She won’t let me. Is this the first step into understanding that I cannot control people with my actions or words? Anyone that has any insight, it would be much appreciated. The pain I feel right now is so intense and I know that I probably can’t find a magic pill to feel better right now or get my girl back. At least I can try to get on the road to better relationships in the future. Thanks in advance.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 14, 2021 11:55:23 GMT
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Post by john1234 on Aug 14, 2021 13:06:20 GMT
thank you so much. It’s so much to read. I have much work to do.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 14, 2021 16:14:45 GMT
So I just found this site yesterday. Only learned of attachment style a couple months ago. I am very aware that I was always different when it came to relationships. They seemed to affect me more. Especially during a breakup. It would devastate me. Send me into a spiral of self loathing and despair. I am sure I can look at all of the old posts and pick out the pieces I feel I need, but to be honest I wouldn’t even no where to begin. does anyone have a comprehensive list of what I could do to try and be more secure? Is there a go to list of tools or coping strategies? Sometimes I feel like these things are so ingrained in me that I don’t know if I can change. I want to try my best make myself a better person and partner in the future. I am going through a breakup or break right now I actually don’t know, the woman won’t speak to me and I am in a lot of pain and want to find a way to not go through this anymore. I am attracted to very strong women I am not sure why. Looking back I think most of them were some kind of avoidant and every time I get broken into pieces. I beat myself up for not being good enough. I always felt it was them being to tough to change for me. Me not being good enough for them to try harder. I am now realizing at 48 years old I’ve been wrong the whole time. You would think this should feel like some enlightening moment for me but it is not. It makes me feel like I could have made those relationships better if I would have not done the things that I did. It probably does not help that I am going through one of these heartbreaks right now and all I want to do is fix it and feel better. She won’t let me. Is this the first step into understanding that I cannot control people with my actions or words? Anyone that has any insight, it would be much appreciated. The pain I feel right now is so intense and I know that I probably can’t find a magic pill to feel better right now or get my girl back. At least I can try to get on the road to better relationships in the future. Thanks in advance. Hey John…..please do not beat yourself up with what if’s…..I invite you the read the story of B and me through my posts…just click my name and go back to the first post and you will read about another person who thought she (meaning me) could have had a better relationship and B would have stayed “if only”. I know this is going to sound incredibly counter cultural…..but you have a right to take as long as you need to grieve this break or break up. I dated B for 10.5 months…he was my shortest relationship and it took over 2 years for me to let go of the hope. I know you gave us a peak into your past relationship…..are you ok with sharing a bit about your own childhood experiences? If it is too raw right now…that is ok….but oftentimes there is a link between the partners we choose and one of our parents (typically it is the opposite sex one…but it doesn’t necessarily have to be that one). One thing that resonated with me recently was this realization that all my behaviors stemmed from a need to protect myself from hurt….some of them didn’t work so well….because I had no control over the other person…but viewing my behaviors from that view made me less angry at myself. Tye good news is you have found the right community to help you on your healing journey…some of us have a few more tools then others….but we all are hear to help. 🙂
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Post by john1234 on Aug 14, 2021 19:14:20 GMT
So I just found this site yesterday. Only learned of attachment style a couple months ago. I am very aware that I was always different when it came to relationships. They seemed to affect me more. Especially during a breakup. It would devastate me. Send me into a spiral of self loathing and despair. I am sure I can look at all of the old posts and pick out the pieces I feel I need, but to be honest I wouldn’t even no where to begin. does anyone have a comprehensive list of what I could do to try and be more secure? Is there a go to list of tools or coping strategies? Sometimes I feel like these things are so ingrained in me that I don’t know if I can change. I want to try my best make myself a better person and partner in the future. I am going through a breakup or break right now I actually don’t know, the woman won’t speak to me and I am in a lot of pain and want to find a way to not go through this anymore. I am attracted to very strong women I am not sure why. Looking back I think most of them were some kind of avoidant and every time I get broken into pieces. I beat myself up for not being good enough. I always felt it was them being to tough to change for me. Me not being good enough for them to try harder. I am now realizing at 48 years old I’ve been wrong the whole time. You would think this should feel like some enlightening moment for me but it is not. It makes me feel like I could have made those relationships better if I would have not done the things that I did. It probably does not help that I am going through one of these heartbreaks right now and all I want to do is fix it and feel better. She won’t let me. Is this the first step into understanding that I cannot control people with my actions or words? Anyone that has any insight, it would be much appreciated. The pain I feel right now is so intense and I know that I probably can’t find a magic pill to feel better right now or get my girl back. At least I can try to get on the road to better relationships in the future. Thanks in advance. Hey John…..please do not beat yourself up with what if’s…..I invite you the read the story of B and me through my posts…just click my name and go back to the first post and you will read about another person who thought she (meaning me) could have had a better relationship and B would have stayed “if only”. I know this is going to sound incredibly counter cultural…..but you have a right to take as long as you need to grieve this break or break up. I dated B for 10.5 months…he was my shortest relationship and it took over 2 years for me to let go of the hope. I know you gave us a peak into your past relationship…..are you ok with sharing a bit about your own childhood experiences? If it is too raw right now…that is ok….but oftentimes there is a link between the partners we choose and one of our parents (typically it is the opposite sex one…but it doesn’t necessarily have to be that one). One thing that resonated with me recently was this realization that all my behaviors stemmed from a need to protect myself from hurt….some of them didn’t work so well….because I had no control over the other person…but viewing my behaviors from that view made me less angry at myself. Tye good news is you have found the right community to help you on your healing journey…some of us have a few more tools then others….but we all are hear to help. 🙂 Thank you for the response. Btw I am an open book and I over share. I had a pretty bad childhood. Abusive father that was married to another woman(my mom was the mistress). His kids did not know about me. I carried a lot of shame for that. I was jealous of them as they had money. My mom was very loving but definitely had issues. She died when I was 16 and my father left me. I saw him occasionally. I started drinking heavily when she died. But I never thought I was doing it to numb. That’s just what we did in the 80s. We partied. Looking back I was damaging myself more by burying and burying shame and guilt and fear. At the time I was glad he left. Looking back I needed him tho. He died 10 years later. I never thought any of that affected me. Now I can see it has done a number on me. I have just been told I must forgive him. I’m trying but it has proven to be difficult. I have also attached to a woman with borderline personality disorder in the past and that is what really did me in and first brought all of these dark feelings up in me. It’s been a struggle to find out why I am the way am during depression, massive anxiety, raising kids while being divorced. Sometimes I feel like I’ll never get out of this dark hole. Then I meet this wonderful wonderful woman who pulls me out of massive depression. She loves the hell out of me. Then starts this push pull thing that is making my abandonment fears come with vengeance. And I never even knew what attachment style was. I was more worried about disorders after bpd hell.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 14, 2021 20:52:06 GMT
john1234, you've gone through so much, and hopefully discovering attachment theory will help! How to become more secure is a great question, so you're on the right track. From reading your story, both about your background and about your romantic relationship, I actually read (in my opinion) that you and your partner who brought you here appear to both be FA. That's a pretty common attraction and pairing. When you were less available and more distant, she pursued you and acted more anxious. When you felt better and were more engaged and present, she became more distant and avoidant. And back and forth and back and forth in a cycle we go. I might start with that. It's still worth reading the AA style stuff because in many ways it applies to the anxious side of FA as well and I think makes that half of FA easier to understand. I also disagree with anyone who told you that you MUST forgive your dad. Yes, it will be good for you in the long-term to fully process all the pain of the situation, accept it happened, understand and make sense of it, and eventually move forward -- but that is a deeply personal process that takes time and happens at your own speed. You don't need to do anything, you certainly don't need to force yourself to do it on any sort of rushed timeline. Especially when you're still even coming to terms with what you went through. Forcing it will cause stress, pressure, fear, and more shame, and distract you from actually processing, having an opposite effect and outcome from the one you want. Here are some more links that may be useful for you: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responsejebkinnisonforum.com/thread/3091/healing-fa-attachment-issuesjebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2917/turn-secure-share-experiences-tipsjebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumaAnd I wrote more a while ago about my journey earning secure from anxious preoccupied here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1262/attachment-style-self-help-suggestions
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Post by john1234 on Aug 14, 2021 21:47:41 GMT
john1234, you've gone through so much, and hopefully discovering attachment theory will help! How to become more secure is a great question, so you're on the right track. From reading your story, both about your background and about your romantic relationship, I actually read (in my opinion) that you and your partner who brought you here appear to both be FA. That's a pretty common attraction and pairing. When you were less available and more distant, she pursued you and acted more anxious. When you felt better and were more engaged and present, she became more distant and avoidant. And back and forth and back and forth in a cycle we go. I might start with that. It's still worth reading the AA style stuff because in many ways it applies to the anxious side of FA as well and I think makes that half of FA easier to understand. I also disagree with anyone who told you that you MUST forgive your dad. Yes, it will be good for you in the long-term to fully process all the pain of the situation, accept it happened, understand and make sense of it, and eventually move forward -- but that is a deeply personal process that takes time and happens at your own speed. You don't need to do anything, you certainly don't need to force yourself to do it on any sort of rushed timeline. Especially when you're still even coming to terms with what you went through. Forcing it will cause stress, pressure, fear, and more shame, and distract you from actually processing, having an opposite effect and outcome from the one you want. Here are some more links that may be useful for you: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responsejebkinnisonforum.com/thread/3091/healing-fa-attachment-issuesjebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2917/turn-secure-share-experiences-tipsjebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumaAnd I wrote more a while ago about my journey earning secure from anxious preoccupied here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1262/attachment-style-self-help-suggestions Thank you so much
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 4:30:46 GMT
So I just found this site yesterday. Only learned of attachment style a couple months ago. I am very aware that I was always different when it came to relationships. They seemed to affect me more. Especially during a breakup. It would devastate me. Send me into a spiral of self loathing and despair. I am sure I can look at all of the old posts and pick out the pieces I feel I need, but to be honest I wouldn’t even no where to begin. does anyone have a comprehensive list of what I could do to try and be more secure? Is there a go to list of tools or coping strategies? Sometimes I feel like these things are so ingrained in me that I don’t know if I can change. I want to try my best make myself a better person and partner in the future. I am going through a breakup or break right now I actually don’t know, the woman won’t speak to me and I am in a lot of pain and want to find a way to not go through this anymore. I am attracted to very strong women I am not sure why. Looking back I think most of them were some kind of avoidant and every time I get broken into pieces. I beat myself up for not being good enough. I always felt it was them being to tough to change for me. Me not being good enough for them to try harder. I am now realizing at 48 years old I’ve been wrong the whole time. You would think this should feel like some enlightening moment for me but it is not. It makes me feel like I could have made those relationships better if I would have not done the things that I did. It probably does not help that I am going through one of these heartbreaks right now and all I want to do is fix it and feel better. She won’t let me. Is this the first step into understanding that I cannot control people with my actions or words? Anyone that has any insight, it would be much appreciated. The pain I feel right now is so intense and I know that I probably can’t find a magic pill to feel better right now or get my girl back. At least I can try to get on the road to better relationships in the future. Thanks in advance. Hey John…..please do not beat yourself up with what if’s…..I invite you the read the story of B and me through my posts…just click my name and go back to the first post and you will read about another person who thought she (meaning me) could have had a better relationship and B would have stayed “if only”. I know this is going to sound incredibly counter cultural…..but you have a right to take as long as you need to grieve this break or break up. I dated B for 10.5 months…he was my shortest relationship and it took over 2 years for me to let go of the hope. I know you gave us a peak into your past relationship…..are you ok with sharing a bit about your own childhood experiences? If it is too raw right now…that is ok….but oftentimes there is a link between the partners we choose and one of our parents (typically it is the opposite sex one…but it doesn’t necessarily have to be that one). One thing that resonated with me recently was this realization that all my behaviors stemmed from a need to protect myself from hurt….some of them didn’t work so well….because I had no control over the other person…but viewing my behaviors from that view made me less angry at myself. Tye good news is you have found the right community to help you on your healing journey…some of us have a few more tools then others….but we all are hear to help. 🙂 Hello again. You seem to have great insights. I tried to find your stories of b. You have many posts and I could only find one about b. I have another question if that would be okay. I’m not sure if you will see this but hopefully you can give me a little bit of info. So I couldn’t handle the no closure thing and called her last night. No response but she did call me today. I found out she did break up with me last week I just didn’t hear her over the phone. She did talk about possible reconciliation but we both have work to do. She is right and I am trying my best to get away from my anxious behaviors. I also drink too much and that bothers her. She has told me she never says anything because she just never will. But during this break she wants me to know it bothers her. We spoke for over three hours and it did subside my anxiety quite a bit as she was talking about how much she cares and how she knows if we do break up she knows that if I find a woman she will be the luckiest woman in the world. I know she is not saying it to be nice as she has said over and over during our time together that I am an amazing guy and that if we don’t make she knows I’ll find someone very easily. She also cried when she said it and she almost never cries. I did get quite emotional as I am just an emotional guy. I want her back and I made that very clear. I hate the game of trying to act like I don’t care. She said a few things that resonated with me the first being that she really thinks she was happier with those fwb relationships than she is with the real relationships. That really stings. While we were together she would always say this is the beat relationship she’s ever had and that she has never been happier in her life. I know at the end of our relationship I was tripping up with my anxiety but that shouldn’t discount the prior two years of her supposedly being so happy. We also spoke about attachment style as she has made several comments that I now know from the research I’ve done the last couple of months. She kind of admitted she has been trying to get me and her to be secure since the beginning of the relationship. So that is out of the way. I don’t understand why if she knows about her style why does she always say she’ll never change? She knows I’m anxious she has said it many times. I never put it together until now. I know this journey is all about me trying to get to a more secure place and I can’t really worry about her. Where do I go from here? As I said I do want to work on the relationship. Work on getting more secure. Do you have have advice on where to go from here? And as I work on becoming more secure does that pull her to being more secure? Thank you so much for of your input so for and I look forward to anything you can add to my dilemma.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 4:39:30 GMT
Hey John…..please do not beat yourself up with what if’s…..I invite you the read the story of B and me through my posts…just click my name and go back to the first post and you will read about another person who thought she (meaning me) could have had a better relationship and B would have stayed “if only”. I know this is going to sound incredibly counter cultural…..but you have a right to take as long as you need to grieve this break or break up. I dated B for 10.5 months…he was my shortest relationship and it took over 2 years for me to let go of the hope. I know you gave us a peak into your past relationship…..are you ok with sharing a bit about your own childhood experiences? If it is too raw right now…that is ok….but oftentimes there is a link between the partners we choose and one of our parents (typically it is the opposite sex one…but it doesn’t necessarily have to be that one). One thing that resonated with me recently was this realization that all my behaviors stemmed from a need to protect myself from hurt….some of them didn’t work so well….because I had no control over the other person…but viewing my behaviors from that view made me less angry at myself. Tye good news is you have found the right community to help you on your healing journey…some of us have a few more tools then others….but we all are hear to help. 🙂 Hello again. You seem to have great insights. I tried to find your stories of b. You have many posts and I could only find one about b. I have another question if that would be okay. I’m not sure if you will see this but hopefully you can give me a little bit of info. So I couldn’t handle the no closure thing and called her last night. No response but she did call me today. I found out she did break up with me last week I just didn’t hear her over the phone. She did talk about possible reconciliation but we both have work to do. She is right and I am trying my best to get away from my anxious behaviors. I also drink too much and that bothers her. She has told me she never says anything because she just never will. But during this break she wants me to know it bothers her. We spoke for over three hours and it did subside my anxiety quite a bit as she was talking about how much she cares and how she knows if we do break up she knows that if I find a woman she will be the luckiest woman in the world. I know she is not saying it to be nice as she has said over and over during our time together that I am an amazing guy and that if we don’t make she knows I’ll find someone very easily. She also cried when she said it and she almost never cries. I did get quite emotional as I am just an emotional guy. I want her back and I made that very clear. I hate the game of trying to act like I don’t care. She said a few things that resonated with me the first being that she really thinks she was happier with those fwb relationships than she is with the real relationships. That really stings. While we were together she would always say this is the beat relationship she’s ever had and that she has never been happier in her life. I know at the end of our relationship I was tripping up with my anxiety but that shouldn’t discount the prior two years of her supposedly being so happy. We also spoke about attachment style as she has made several comments that I now know from the research I’ve done the last couple of months. She kind of admitted she has been trying to get me and her to be secure since the beginning of the relationship. So that is out of the way. I don’t understand why if she knows about her style why does she always say she’ll never change? She knows I’m anxious she has said it many times. I never put it together until now. I know this journey is all about me trying to get to a more secure place and I can’t really worry about her. Where do I go from here? As I said I do want to work on the relationship. Work on getting more secure. Do you have have advice on where to go from here? And as I work on becoming more secure does that pull her to being more secure? Thank you so much for of your input so for and I look forward to anything you can add to my dilemma. I also forgot to add. She went to the hospital after our disagreement last Sunday and she said it was a panic attack because of all the stress from the way she was feeling attacked by me. So I am really hurting her with my attitude towards her. I don’t want that. That’s why I am trying to get to a more secure place. I’m sure there are a couple of things from the conversation I am forgetting. It was very emotional and I can feel my anxiety rising as there is no contact. I am reading everything I can to try and get myself to a better place.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 16, 2021 5:21:35 GMT
I also drink too much and that bothers her. She has told me she never says anything because she just never will. But during this break she wants me to know it bothers her. She said a few things that resonated with me the first being that she really thinks she was happier with those fwb relationships than she is with the real relationships. That really stings. I don’t understand why if she knows about her style why does she always say she’ll never change? And as I work on becoming more secure does that pull her to being more secure? I know this is directed tnr9, but I had a couple responses to your comments above. It's good she called you out on drinking, whether it's because it is too much to be healthy or simply because it makes her uncomfortable. But I'm not sure why she said she would never tell you that in a relationship although is willing to tell you now afterwards? I mean... it's probably because she is avoidant... but that's not a healthy communication pattern. If you're to get back together in a healthy dynamic, communication needs to be open even if it's sensitive. In regards to her FWB comment, this is not personal. I'd have received it and responded the same way as you when I was AP. But it's actually a comment much more telling about her and her avoidance. What she's actually saying is maintaining intimacy and a real relationship is extremely difficult for her -- this is due to her fears of intimacy, engulfment, and vulnerability, it is NOT a reflection of being with you. It probably was the best more serious relationship of her life, as she said, but FWB is simpler because it's by definition not fully committed and therefore won't trigger her fears of intimacy and commitment as easily. Please don't internalize this as a bad on you. In regards to her knowing her attachment style yet saying she'll never change, this is exactly what happened with me and my last serious FA ex after the second time we broke up. Unfortunately, this is the nail in the coffin right here to ever having a harmonious reconciliation that is successful in the long-term, and it's the same comment that finally allowed me to fully accept that things needed to be over for real with me and my ex. You have a growth mindset. You want to know what's happening inside you, to overcome your pain, to achieve security. You probably know on some level that not changing will be more painful than staying the same, stuck in the same patterns that have hurt you your entire adult life. Her perspective is simply different. She does not wish to change. So therefore, she won't. That's all there is to it. There's nothing more you can do about that. Will she get more secure and change if you get more secure? Probably not, because she has said she isn't interested in changing, she doesn't want to do it. I dated my serious FA ex twice. The first time, I was AP. The second time, I was almost secure and got fully secure at the end. I acted totally differently both times. It made no difference. He acted exactly the same both times (amazing connection, super into me for months talking about our future until it actually started getting more serious and I was all in, then pulling the rug out totally, panic without communication, started treating me terribly by withdrawing, saying deeply hurtful things, blaming me for who knows what, and break up without ever telling me how he was feeling about anything). It didn't matter what I did. And it never will for as long as he doesn't want to change. But learning about him, hearing him say that, that allowed me to finally move on. This was all years ago now, and I have a wonderful and deeply committed secure long-term boyfriend now. I am sure I wouldn't be in a stable LTR, planning to take the next steps soon, and wouldn't have been interested in him if I didn't get myself secure first. My FA ex... he still reaches out. After 2 serious girlfriends after me that both didn't work out and all these years. He was true to his word: he has not changed at all. He's still extremely FA even as a friend, hot and cold, anxious and avoidant. We are so utterly incompatible now, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm much happier where I am now (and my partner knows which of my exes still talk to me, there's no secrets). But if I wanted to stay on the merry go round with that ex, he'd have come back after every breakup with his other girlfriends if I'd encouraged him and let him. We'd have been stuck in the pattern for even more years, as long as I allowed it! That's how it played out for me, and it's a lot to take in. But the tl;dr is work on being secure for yourself without any expectations of her or how she'll respond. If she ever does decide to change, you are an attachment figure to her. So she will let you know. But in current state, as long as she's avoidant and has no interest in addressing her side of things, it will never become a healthy relationship for you. And I'm sorry, I know it's hard to hear and you don't want to hear it. After my first breakup with FA ex I was determined to prove it wrong and win him back after fixing some of my own communication issues. It was the best thing for me but LOL at it making our romantic relationship work! It most certainly did not.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 5:45:03 GMT
I also drink too much and that bothers her. She has told me she never says anything because she just never will. But during this break she wants me to know it bothers her. She said a few things that resonated with me the first being that she really thinks she was happier with those fwb relationships than she is with the real relationships. That really stings. I don’t understand why if she knows about her style why does she always say she’ll never change? And as I work on becoming more secure does that pull her to being more secure? I know this is directed tnr9, but I had a couple responses to your comments above. It's good she called you out on drinking, whether it's because it is too much to be healthy or simply because it makes her uncomfortable. But I'm not sure why she said she would never tell you that in a relationship although is willing to tell you now afterwards? I mean... it's probably because she is avoidant... but that's not a healthy communication pattern. If you're to get back together in a healthy dynamic, communication needs to be open even if it's sensitive. In regards to her FWB comment, this is not personal. I'd have received it and responded the same way as you when I was AP. But it's actually a comment much more telling about her and her avoidance. What she's actually saying is maintaining intimacy and a real relationship is extremely difficult for her -- this is due to her fears of intimacy, engulfment, and vulnerability, it is NOT a reflection of being with you. It probably was the best more serious relationship of her life, as she said, but FWB is simpler because it's by definition not fully committed and therefore won't trigger her fears of intimacy and commitment as easily. Please don't internalize this as a bad on you. In regards to her knowing her attachment style yet saying she'll never change, this is exactly what happened with me and my last serious FA ex after the second time we broke up. Unfortunately, this is the nail in the coffin right here to ever having a harmonious reconciliation that is successful in the long-term, and it's the same comment that finally allowed me to fully accept that things needed to be over for real with me and my ex. You have a growth mindset. You want to know what's happening inside you, to overcome your pain, to achieve security. You probably know on some level that not changing will be more painful than staying the same, stuck in the same patterns that have hurt you your entire adult life. Her perspective is simply different. She does not wish to change. So therefore, she won't. That's all there is to it. There's nothing more you can do about that. Will she get more secure and change if you get more secure? Probably not, because she has said she isn't interested in changing, she doesn't want to do it. I dated my serious FA ex twice. The first time, I was AP. The second time, I was almost secure and got fully secure at the end. I acted totally differently both times. It made no difference. He acted exactly the same both times (amazing connection, super into me for months talking about our future until it actually started getting more serious and I was all in, then pulling the rug out totally, panic without communication, started treating me terribly by withdrawing, saying deeply hurtful things, blaming me for who knows what, and break up without ever telling me how he was feeling about anything). It didn't matter what I did. And it never will for as long as he doesn't want to change. But learning about him, hearing him say that, that allowed me to finally move on. This was all years ago now, and I have a wonderful and deeply committed secure long-term boyfriend now. I am sure I wouldn't be in a stable LTR, planning to take the next steps soon, and wouldn't have been interested in him if I didn't get myself secure first. My FA ex... he still reaches out. After 2 serious girlfriends after me that both didn't work out and all these years. He was true to his word: he has not changed at all. He's still extremely FA even as a friend, hot and cold, anxious and avoidant. We are so utterly incompatible now, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm much happier where I am now (and my partner knows which of my exes still talk to me, there's no secrets). But if I wanted to stay on the merry go round with that ex, he'd have come back after every breakup with his other girlfriends if I'd encouraged him and let him. We'd have been stuck in the pattern for even more years, as long as I allowed it! That's how it played out for me, and it's a lot to take in. But the tl;dr is work on being secure for yourself without any expectations of her or how she'll respond. If she ever does decide to change, you are an attachment figure to her. So she will let you know. But in current state, as long as she's avoidant and has no interest in addressing her side of things, it will never become a healthy relationship for you. And I'm sorry, I know it's hard to hear and you don't want to hear it. After my first breakup with FA ex I was determined to prove it wrong and win him back after fixing some of my own communication issues. It was the best thing for me but LOL at it making our romantic relationship work! It most certainly did not. Wow. Thank you so much. So a little context. And please do not think I am making excuses for her. She is going to therapy after this. She said that this whole situation makes her feel like she was in the wrong in her absolutely abusive “marriage”. Even tho they were not married because she won’t marry. She said that this is only her second real relationship and that it has caused her anxiety. She was intimating it made her question her side of things in her “marriage” and consequently our relationship now. Which maybe could be good? But I don’t ever want to be compared to an abuser. She told me some of the gruesome stuff he would do to her. I did tell her that I would like some vulnerability from her at some points. I can’t be with someone that will not be vulnerable at least a little. It’s just so weird how that first year she was so vulnerable. I also spoke to her about validation. And I said is it really that difficult to say…sweetheart I need a little down time. It’s not personal I love you. I’m seriously asking you this Alexandra? Is that too much to ask? I don’t know anymore. Maybe it’s too much? Is that something that you as someone that transitioned from a ap to secure does not need anymore. When I was married I know that I did not need as much validation as the years went by. And I am pretty sure she is FA as well. But maybe there was some covert validation seeking behavior I’m not aware of that my ex will not or doesn’t not know how to explain. And one more thing about her down time or needing space. She told me that when she does the space thing it’s actually when she feels the most peace. It’s when she feels no anxiety and feels the relationship is perfect. Thank you for the help.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 16, 2021 6:11:03 GMT
john1234, if she's starting therapy, and you're working on your stuff, the best thing sounds like it's actually a long breather. I know that is an anxiety trigger, because the anxious side of the attachment wants reconnection NOW. But giving each other the space to deal with the underlying issues you both have that are unrelated to the other person and allowing your perspectives to shift a bit from there leaves room for change to happen. My ex and I didn't talk for almost a year before trying to slowly reconcile. That was the hardest thing for me, even though it was my decision, as I'd never been able to overcome the anxiety that came for me doing no contact with anyone in my life. And it was hard the first three months, but then it slowly got a little easier. That amount of time apart was lots of time for me to make real changes in myself without being constantly triggered by him. It turned out to also be lots of time to learn that he, indeed, wasn't going to change. Because if he was going to at that point, more would have happened on his end during that no contact period. Triggering each other while both at the very beginning and not having learned the tools to deal with this is very overwhelming. Reconnecting later and seeing if you each have more tools to deal with a relationship and are still interested in one, even if you are both not fully secure yet but still in earnest trying to get there, can be doable. In regards to you wanting her to say when she needs some space and it's nothing personal, no, that is not you asking for too much, at least in a healthy relationship. It is asking too much of an "immature" avoidant who hasn't started working on communication and other issues yet, though. When someone is triggered avoidant, their overwhelmed nervous system temporarily shuts down and numbs out. In that defensive, self-protection mode, there's no empathetic communication. Just like there isn't when someone is triggered into an anxiety attack. That's not because you're asking too much, but it's an issue on her end and she's trying to figure out how to re-regulate her nervous system. (This is not conscious, and involves some dysfunctional methods to cope with stress.) With my boyfriend, he is occasionally in a bad mood and I don't always know why. And he doesn't always acknowledge when he's in a bad mood and being snappy. But I'll know nothing happened between us that should have caused it and trust that he'd tell me if there was a problem related to me. So I'll give him a couple hours and if he's still crabby, I'll ask if everything is okay and if it is has anything to do with me. So far the answer has always been it has nothing to do with me, even if he doesn't tell me what else is going on. So I'll say okay, and let him do his thing for a few more hours (this often looks like quietly being in the same room but not engaging), and then he'll apologize if he was snappy and everything is fine. When he has later told me what was wrong, it's just normal stuff that would annoy anyone, maybe about work, maybe an errand went poorly, maybe something wasn't working in his day and he got annoyed about it, heck... maybe he was hungry lol. But it's not too much to expect that your adult partner can communicate "it's not you and you can't do anything about it, so I need a minute," and then you believe them and respect that and go do your own thing. In this regard, it's up to you to pick a partner you're compatible with. If she can't communicate and never tries to learn, and you feel uncomfortable with a lack of communication, that's an incompatibility that will make your lives harder. And then it's about deciding whether or not the relationship meets your needs or if it feels really hard. Healthy relationships feel easy and are not full of tension.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 11:37:53 GMT
john1234, if she's starting therapy, and you're working on your stuff, the best thing sounds like it's actually a long breather. I know that is an anxiety trigger, because the anxious side of the attachment wants reconnection NOW. But giving each other the space to deal with the underlying issues you both have that are unrelated to the other person and allowing your perspectives to shift a bit from there leaves room for change to happen. My ex and I didn't talk for almost a year before trying to slowly reconcile. That was the hardest thing for me, even though it was my decision, as I'd never been able to overcome the anxiety that came for me doing no contact with anyone in my life. And it was hard the first three months, but then it slowly got a little easier. That amount of time apart was lots of time for me to make real changes in myself without being constantly triggered by him. It turned out to also be lots of time to learn that he, indeed, wasn't going to change. Because if he was going to at that point, more would have happened on his end during that no contact period. Triggering each other while both at the very beginning and not having learned the tools to deal with this is very overwhelming. Reconnecting later and seeing if you each have more tools to deal with a relationship and are still interested in one, even if you are both not fully secure yet but still in earnest trying to get there, can be doable. In regards to you wanting her to say when she needs some space and it's nothing personal, no, that is not you asking for too much, at least in a healthy relationship. It is asking too much of an "immature" avoidant who hasn't started working on communication and other issues yet, though. When someone is triggered avoidant, their overwhelmed nervous system temporarily shuts down and numbs out. In that defensive, self-protection mode, there's no empathetic communication. Just like there isn't when someone is triggered into an anxiety attack. That's not because you're asking too much, but it's an issue on her end and she's trying to figure out how to re-regulate her nervous system. (This is not conscious, and involves some dysfunctional methods to cope with stress.) With my boyfriend, he is occasionally in a bad mood and I don't always know why. And he doesn't always acknowledge when he's in a bad mood and being snappy. But I'll know nothing happened between us that should have caused it and trust that he'd tell me if there was a problem related to me. So I'll give him a couple hours and if he's still crabby, I'll ask if everything is okay and if it is has anything to do with me. So far the answer has always been it has nothing to do with me, even if he doesn't tell me what else is going on. So I'll say okay, and let him do his thing for a few more hours (this often looks like quietly being in the same room but not engaging), and then he'll apologize if he was snappy and everything is fine. When he has later told me what was wrong, it's just normal stuff that would annoy anyone, maybe about work, maybe an errand went poorly, maybe something wasn't working in his day and he got annoyed about it, heck... maybe he was hungry lol. But it's not too much to expect that your adult partner can communicate "it's not you and you can't do anything about it, so I need a minute," and then you believe them and respect that and go do your own thing. In this regard, it's up to you to pick a partner you're compatible with. If she can't communicate and never tries to learn, and you feel uncomfortable with a lack of communication, that's an incompatibility that will make your lives harder. And then it's about deciding whether or not the relationship meets your needs or if it feels really hard. Healthy relationships feel easy and are not full of tension. It’s so weird to me that that first year I was not triggered much. She took the brunt of it. So she was probably triggering all the time. Feeling suffocated every couple of weeks. I mean her previous relationships she said she would have sex and immediately snap her fingers and say okay get out. No connection. Somehow me opening up so much before we even met gave her some sort of connection. And our first date was 18 hours straight and we didn’t seperate for like 3 weeks after that. That is why she pulled back after a year. She said it was because she took on a lot of my depression. I was bad so I understood. I’m not sure if I mentioned this but the first couple of months I would cry after we had sex. Sometimes I could not ejaculate for hours. I would just give up. Distraught. She is a very sexual person and couldn’t care less if I achieved orgasm as she knew I would try again shortly after. The first couple of weeks she would say I don’t really care if her partner was satisfied. That changed after a couple of weeks and she tried very hard to satisfy me. I hope it’s okay with talking about sex and I apologize if it offends. But it’s a big part of our relationship. Maybe that type of behavior was enough to not trigger her. It’s almost like it’s a perfect storm tho for my anxiety. One year is plenty of time to get hooked and fall in love. But the funny thing is she is hooked too. I always thought I was the only one to feel like this. I thought that I was a freak and to hear that other people go through this is astonishing. I am also amazed that you are mostly secure now. I have read a lot of the things you and others have provided. Some of it is written in what looks to me like a different language(I am not speaking of the grammatical errors and stuff, just the concepts in general). I don’t know why I can’t understand the concepts of trying to get myself to be more secure. I know I’m not supposed to be focusing on her but I have a big ego and I just wonder if there’s another guy that is more secure than me would she not get triggered as much? And she would have a healthy relationship with someone that knows how to communicate his feelings in a less accusatory way she would be better for him. Chase him more. I know the if’s are not something I should focus on. But it just makes me feel not good enough which causes more anxiety. So did you become more secure also because you found a more secure person or did you already have most of the things figured out on your own? During this separation does she feel relief being away from me? Or is she stressed too? Does her anxious side make her feel as bad as I do? Because my anxiety is through the roof right now. I feel like she’s gonna find someone else when I couldn’t imagine even looking at another human being right now as I’m so focused on her. Almost obsessed. I want you to know deep down I trust her 100 percent. She is a classy woman that I don’t believe that would go there. When I broke it off a year ago she would not speak to me after and I finally got her to respond when I accused her of going on a dating site. She wasn’t on the dating. But she freaked out and said she couldn’t believe that I would accuse her of such a thing. She is very loyal in that regard but I don’t know how to deal with the feeling of her just moving on without a care in the world. That’s the part that makes me feel like a freak. I hate it and it’s embarrassing it causes me to feel so weak and pitiful. Thank you for helping me. I just feel like crap. Stomach is in knots. Constant overthinking. So hard to focus.
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Post by john1234 on Aug 16, 2021 12:02:29 GMT
john1234, if she's starting therapy, and you're working on your stuff, the best thing sounds like it's actually a long breather. I know that is an anxiety trigger, because the anxious side of the attachment wants reconnection NOW. But giving each other the space to deal with the underlying issues you both have that are unrelated to the other person and allowing your perspectives to shift a bit from there leaves room for change to happen. My ex and I didn't talk for almost a year before trying to slowly reconcile. That was the hardest thing for me, even though it was my decision, as I'd never been able to overcome the anxiety that came for me doing no contact with anyone in my life. And it was hard the first three months, but then it slowly got a little easier. That amount of time apart was lots of time for me to make real changes in myself without being constantly triggered by him. It turned out to also be lots of time to learn that he, indeed, wasn't going to change. Because if he was going to at that point, more would have happened on his end during that no contact period. Triggering each other while both at the very beginning and not having learned the tools to deal with this is very overwhelming. Reconnecting later and seeing if you each have more tools to deal with a relationship and are still interested in one, even if you are both not fully secure yet but still in earnest trying to get there, can be doable. In regards to you wanting her to say when she needs some space and it's nothing personal, no, that is not you asking for too much, at least in a healthy relationship. It is asking too much of an "immature" avoidant who hasn't started working on communication and other issues yet, though. When someone is triggered avoidant, their overwhelmed nervous system temporarily shuts down and numbs out. In that defensive, self-protection mode, there's no empathetic communication. Just like there isn't when someone is triggered into an anxiety attack. That's not because you're asking too much, but it's an issue on her end and she's trying to figure out how to re-regulate her nervous system. (This is not conscious, and involves some dysfunctional methods to cope with stress.) With my boyfriend, he is occasionally in a bad mood and I don't always know why. And he doesn't always acknowledge when he's in a bad mood and being snappy. But I'll know nothing happened between us that should have caused it and trust that he'd tell me if there was a problem related to me. So I'll give him a couple hours and if he's still crabby, I'll ask if everything is okay and if it is has anything to do with me. So far the answer has always been it has nothing to do with me, even if he doesn't tell me what else is going on. So I'll say okay, and let him do his thing for a few more hours (this often looks like quietly being in the same room but not engaging), and then he'll apologize if he was snappy and everything is fine. When he has later told me what was wrong, it's just normal stuff that would annoy anyone, maybe about work, maybe an errand went poorly, maybe something wasn't working in his day and he got annoyed about it, heck... maybe he was hungry lol. But it's not too much to expect that your adult partner can communicate "it's not you and you can't do anything about it, so I need a minute," and then you believe them and respect that and go do your own thing. In this regard, it's up to you to pick a partner you're compatible with. If she can't communicate and never tries to learn, and you feel uncomfortable with a lack of communication, that's an incompatibility that will make your lives harder. And then it's about deciding whether or not the relationship meets your needs or if it feels really hard. Healthy relationships feel easy and are not full of tension. It’s so weird to me that that first year I was not triggered much. She took the brunt of it. So she was probably triggering all the time. Feeling suffocated every couple of weeks. I mean her previous relationships she said she would have sex and immediately snap her fingers and say okay get out. No connection. Somehow me opening up so much before we even met gave her some sort of connection. And our first date was 18 hours straight and we didn’t seperate for like 3 weeks after that. That is why she pulled back after a year. She said it was because she took on a lot of my depression. I was bad so I understood. I’m not sure if I mentioned this but the first couple of months I would cry after we had sex. Sometimes I could not ejaculate for hours. I would just give up. Distraught. She is a very sexual person and couldn’t care less if I achieved orgasm as she knew I would try again shortly after. The first couple of weeks she would say I don’t really care if her partner was satisfied. That changed after a couple of weeks and she tried very hard to satisfy me. I hope it’s okay with talking about sex and I apologize if it offends. But it’s a big part of our relationship. Maybe that type of behavior was enough to not trigger her. It’s almost like it’s a perfect storm tho for my anxiety. One year is plenty of time to get hooked and fall in love. But the funny thing is she is hooked too. I always thought I was the only one to feel like this. I thought that I was a freak and to hear that other people go through this is astonishing. I am also amazed that you are mostly secure now. I have read a lot of the things you and others have provided. Some of it is written in what looks to me like a different language(I am not speaking of the grammatical errors and stuff, just the concepts in general). I don’t know why I can’t understand the concepts of trying to get myself to be more secure. I know I’m not supposed to be focusing on her but I have a big ego and I just wonder if there’s another guy that is more secure than me would she not get triggered as much? And she would have a healthy relationship with someone that knows how to communicate his feelings in a less accusatory way she would be better for him. Chase him more. I know the if’s are not something I should focus on. But it just makes me feel not good enough which causes more anxiety. So did you become more secure also because you found a more secure person or did you already have most of the things figured out on your own? During this separation does she feel relief being away from me? Or is she stressed too? Does her anxious side make her feel as bad as I do? Because my anxiety is through the roof right now. I feel like she’s gonna find someone else when I couldn’t imagine even looking at another human being right now as I’m so focused on her. Almost obsessed. I want you to know deep down I trust her 100 percent. She is a classy woman that I don’t believe that would go there. When I broke it off a year ago she would not speak to me after and I finally got her to respond when I accused her of going on a dating site. She wasn’t on the dating. But she freaked out and said she couldn’t believe that I would accuse her of such a thing. She is very loyal in that regard but I don’t know how to deal with the feeling of her just moving on without a care in the world. That’s the part that makes me feel like a freak. I hate it and it’s embarrassing it causes me to feel so weak and pitiful. Thank you for helping me. I just feel like crap. Stomach is in knots. Constant overthinking. So hard to focus. I would also like to add that it kind of bums me out that I believe some of her questioning of the relationship does stem from my drinking as well as another thing that can be an annoyance that I’d rather not reveal on here. It’s not drugs or anything just a small annoyance. Full disclosure. I am an alcoholic and working on it, so she has every right to question that, but to say it now instead of bringing it up during the relationship bothers me a bit. When I say working on it I drink substantially less than I did when we first met but I still drink too much. Her intentions are genuine. She is worried about my health. So am I. That part makes me feel validated. It makes me feel like she cares. Of course she knows that if my drinking becomes more of a problem it will affect her if she’s in a close relationship with me. But I do believe she is totally worried about me as someone she cares for. She should not have to be my mother but I just wish she would have said something while we were actually together. Not broken up.
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Post by annieb on Aug 16, 2021 14:40:27 GMT
Hi John - I haven’t read all your posts, but I can feel your pain through your words and I’m so sorry. What stood out to me is how you’re brushing over some of your issues. First things first, you need to take care of yourself. Are you in AA or in addiction treatment or a rehab?. The other thing you mentioned. The annoyance, you might as well disclose it here so we can help you. For everyone who came here we came obsessed about the other person and our ego wrapped up in their validation (that they were not in a position to provide, no one is), and we ended up in some sort of a path of self love. I urge you to start on that path now. If you can see a therapist, see a therapist, if you have no resources, Google an article called 42 ways of improving yourself and start going down that list one by one. Somewhere around activity NR 6, you will have found new ways of soothing yourself. Notice I never mention your ex girlfriend, as she believe it or not has very little to do with all of this. You use her (or your brain rather) as a prop to steer the focus away from your self. I hope this is not harsh, as I know you’re all fresh to this and good luck to you!
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