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Post by seeking on Dec 17, 2021 2:20:45 GMT
It sounds like as a child, you have had to be in the adult space without support, and perhaps even get blamed at times. Maybe not being always a "fixer" is something you can experiment with!Hm. This really struck a chord. I'm still in that role with my family. I wouldn't know how to not do this. My parents were in a terrible car accident in October, and I mobilized into place - then in a more healthy development, decided I could only give what I could give as I'm a single mom and I support clients for work and so that had to come first along with my own stability, health, and my child. That was a hard pill to swallow and my sister actually stopped talking to me for weeks because I didn't jump at every single chance to fix everything. I felt selfish and worried and afraid I would get called out as heartless and lazy. But not fixing sounds incredibly freeing at this moment!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 5:08:22 GMT
perhaps there is something to examine here - the compulsion to be a fixer and fear of being blamed for not fixing! I encourage experimentation with personas, just to give oneself a different experience and a new vantage point. If needing to fix creates stress and tension, then experiment somewhat with not fixing and tolerating the antsy angst that comes with not mobilizing. If your tendency is to fix everything immediately, then give yourself permission to come back and fix in 3/7/14/whatever minutes/days when appropriate. <3
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Post by seeking on Dec 17, 2021 13:17:49 GMT
perhaps there is something to examine here - the compulsion to be a fixer and fear of being blamed for not fixing! I encourage experimentation with personas, just to give oneself a different experience and a new vantage point. If needing to fix creates stress and tension, then experiment somewhat with not fixing and tolerating the antsy angst that comes with not mobilizing. If your tendency is to fix everything immediately, then give yourself permission to come back and fix in 3/7/14/whatever minutes/days when appropriate. <3 I will! The crazy thing is - I mentioned it with this friend. The whole thing sounds like I *wanted* to fix her. The truth is, I don't. I think her situation gave me so much anxiety, that I went into that mode (I think it's a way to cope with anxiety and feel like you can "do something") When she's in crises and reaches out to me, and I don't "fix" she says something about that also. Like "Why aren't you saying anything." It's worth noting, I don't have this dynamic at all with friends who are in their adult space and can function. It's largely with people who can't function, go into little kid mode, dissociation, etc. That it raises such alarm in me I "over function" or take over.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 27, 2021 12:45:30 GMT
perhaps there is something to examine here - the compulsion to be a fixer and fear of being blamed for not fixing! I encourage experimentation with personas, just to give oneself a different experience and a new vantage point. If needing to fix creates stress and tension, then experiment somewhat with not fixing and tolerating the antsy angst that comes with not mobilizing. If your tendency is to fix everything immediately, then give yourself permission to come back and fix in 3/7/14/whatever minutes/days when appropriate. <3 I will! The crazy thing is - I mentioned it with this friend. The whole thing sounds like I *wanted* to fix her. The truth is, I don't. I think her situation gave me so much anxiety, that I went into that mode (I think it's a way to cope with anxiety and feel like you can "do something") When she's in crises and reaches out to me, and I don't "fix" she says something about that also. Like "Why aren't you saying anything." It's worth noting, I don't have this dynamic at all with friends who are in their adult space and can function. It's largely with people who can't function, go into little kid mode, dissociation, etc. That it raises such alarm in me I "over function" or take over. Yeh….I have done that too or had others do that with me. I will say that when I have had that done to me, I became very tuned out….and with my mom, I would dig my heels in. Whether someone can or cannot adult….it is important to allow that person the ability to choose their next steps. I have a friend who is unvaccinated and has been struggling to find a job. When I mentioned this to my mom…my mom said I should tell my friend to get vaccinated….but my friend is an adult…..and she has said (when I asked) that the vaccination status has not come up. I view my role with her as support unless she specifically asks my advice. Or…if I do make a suggestion…I use words like you could so she feels she has a choice as to whether to take my advice or not.
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Post by seeking on Dec 28, 2021 12:37:01 GMT
So just an update here.
I think I "deactivated" if that's a thing in friendship.
At the very least, I would say I shut down.
I am judging myself for not being able to "get over it and move on" - I think because I'm afraid the same pattern will emerge.
I feel like I need some repair work - or for my friend to at least acknowledge her part in this. And it feels like this is supposed to be all me ....
She reached out on FB messenger just to say she hoped my daughter and I had a "chill" christmas. Which is a little odd considering I'm now sensitive about being "intense" with her. But I just said "Thanks!" with a smile emoji.
It feels childish, in a way. But that was all I could muster.
I thought of writing her an email just to air out my feelings a bit. But then I stop myself.
So this is where I'm at.
(BTW, on a side note, I'm reading Neurodivergent Mind by Jenara Nerenberg -- and while I've already known I'm an HSP, and likely on the spectrum, it confirmed it for me last night - seems typical then that I would still be pondering this with my friend and wondering what to do/etc).
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 1, 2022 12:47:02 GMT
So just an update here. I think I "deactivated" if that's a thing in friendship. At the very least, I would say I shut down. I am judging myself for not being able to "get over it and move on" - I think because I'm afraid the same pattern will emerge. I feel like I need some repair work - or for my friend to at least acknowledge her part in this. And it feels like this is supposed to be all me .... She reached out on FB messenger just to say she hoped my daughter and I had a "chill" christmas. Which is a little odd considering I'm now sensitive about being "intense" with her. But I just said "Thanks!" with a smile emoji. It feels childish, in a way. But that was all I could muster. I thought of writing her an email just to air out my feelings a bit. But then I stop myself. So this is where I'm at. (BTW, on a side note, I'm reading Neurodivergent Mind by Jenara Nerenberg -- and while I've already known I'm an HSP, and likely on the spectrum, it confirmed it for me last night - seems typical then that I would still be pondering this with my friend and wondering what to do/etc). There are several members of these boards who are HSP….I am. It is one reason that I monitor my friendships because I have a tendency to “absorb” emotions from others….which makes me a great “empathetic” friend, but can leave me drained if conversations are too one sided. I have 1 friend in particular who will only reach out when she needs to vent….and although she will say the conversation will be short….it usually isn’t….so I will sometimes not answer her calls but will call or text her back when I have more capacity. I completely understand the desire to have your friend apologize or even take your feelings into consideration….but it sounds like that will not happen. It is important to remember that you are the guardian of yourself….you have every right to pull back, hunker down….but, it may also be worth exploring if this situation with her ties back to any other relationship from your past where you felt this exact same way. I have found this exercise has helped me in my own journey because the root tends to go back to my relationship with my mom.
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Post by seeking on Jan 7, 2022 16:10:19 GMT
I had therapy about it the other day. There was a lot to untangle starting with my own family, so by the time we got to the stuff about my friend, it was right at the end. I could have used the whole session on it so have to schedule another. I really just want to look at my pattern in this. But she mentioned some things like Blame/Attack Defend/Deny on behalf of my friend. I'm not really familiar with that language or its larger context. She said she sounds disorganized (in her attachment style) and that she probably has done this with a lot of people (in the time I've known her - which is like a year - it's been MANY). So ... while I feel a little more "validated" and I'm not spinning about it in a panic, like I was pre-therapy and here. I still want to know what my end was.
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Post by seeking on Jan 7, 2022 18:05:00 GMT
I completely understand the desire to have your friend apologize or even take your feelings into consideration….but it sounds like that will not happen. It is important to remember that you are the guardian of yourself….you have every right to pull back, hunker down….but, it may also be worth exploring if this situation with her ties back to any other relationship from your past where you felt this exact same way. I have found this exercise has helped me in my own journey because the root tends to go back to my relationship with my mom. Yes, this is a great question. I would like to explore this more in therapy but we didn't get to that yet. I even told this to my friend - two things... My parents neglecting me (and she was neglecting her kids in the situation and their needs) and that definitely triggered me though that wasn't the issue in the end. I was able to mostly manage my trigger. And - I shared this with my friend in the email - it was like my whole family at times - either all of them or one of the other - it felt like gaslighting (though I'm not sure if that's the right word here) where I would feel things - and the intensity of stuff and react to it then be called out as sensitive and weird, etc. So while I can't pin-point a relationship - it was more like a pattern (and my parents and sister labeled me as that) - And this incident with my friend felt similar - like her commitment was to remain "cool" and "chill" even though her circumstances were anything but that. And I reacted with alarm. She called it "intense" and then said "we should talk" and told me I was being intense. It wasn't even a request (a boundary) - and I didn't know what to do with it. And wrote her an email after things settled down - to share that I was okay with being in intense given that she and her children were in potential danger.... but she ended the friendship. I'm starting to make peace with it now.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 7, 2022 20:25:33 GMT
I completely understand the desire to have your friend apologize or even take your feelings into consideration….but it sounds like that will not happen. It is important to remember that you are the guardian of yourself….you have every right to pull back, hunker down….but, it may also be worth exploring if this situation with her ties back to any other relationship from your past where you felt this exact same way. I have found this exercise has helped me in my own journey because the root tends to go back to my relationship with my mom. Yes, this is a great question. I would like to explore this more in therapy but we didn't get to that yet. I even told this to my friend - two things... My parents neglecting me (and she was neglecting her kids in the situation and their needs) and that definitely triggered me though that wasn't the issue in the end. I was able to mostly manage my trigger. And - I shared this with my friend in the email - it was like my whole family at times - either all of them or one of the other - it felt like gaslighting (though I'm not sure if that's the right word here) where I would feel things - and the intensity of stuff and react to it then be called out as sensitive and weird, etc. So while I can't pin-point a relationship - it was more like a pattern (and my parents and sister labeled me as that) - And this incident with my friend felt similar - like her commitment was to remain "cool" and "chill" even though her circumstances were anything but that. And I reacted with alarm. She called it "intense" and then said "we should talk" and told me I was being intense. It wasn't even a request (a boundary) - and I didn't know what to do with it. And wrote her an email after things settled down - to share that I was okay with being in intense given that she and her children were in potential danger.... but she ended the friendship. I'm starting to make peace with it now. One person’s intense is another person’s passionate. 🙂. I think it is worth exploring this hurtful relationship you had with your parents and sister. Sounds like you have become a scapegoat in the family…..so have I. Therapy has helped me to create better boundaries with my mom and to take her comments less “personally”. Put another way…I cannot change how she or anyone else views me, but I can change how I react to it. I
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Post by seeking on Jan 7, 2022 22:34:28 GMT
tnr9, "scapegoat" is a good word. I think that perfectly describes how I felt in the situation with my friend. And why I felt soooooo triggered after 1 week later she told me "we should talk" and then said very seriously that I was so "intense" that day.
I don't take my mom's stuff personally at all anymore. Did a lot of work on that and now just grateful to have her in my life - she nearly died this past October and is pretty fragile right now and so that shifted a lot. But my sister - yep, still working on the "not taking it personally."
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 9, 2022 16:30:54 GMT
tnr9, "scapegoat" is a good word. I think that perfectly describes how I felt in the situation with my friend. And why I felt soooooo triggered after 1 week later she told me "we should talk" and then said very seriously that I was so "intense" that day. I don't take my mom's stuff personally at all anymore. Did a lot of work on that and now just grateful to have her in my life - she nearly died this past October and is pretty fragile right now and so that shifted a lot. But my sister - yep, still working on the "not taking it personally." Siblings can sometimes be a lot harder than parents actually. I am grateful that I have 2 supportive brothers. I thought of you while I was driving and listening to one of my favorite songs….Robbie Williams Love My Life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 16:55:40 GMT
I completely understand the desire to have your friend apologize or even take your feelings into consideration….but it sounds like that will not happen. It is important to remember that you are the guardian of yourself….you have every right to pull back, hunker down….but, it may also be worth exploring if this situation with her ties back to any other relationship from your past where you felt this exact same way. I have found this exercise has helped me in my own journey because the root tends to go back to my relationship with my mom. Yes, this is a great question. I would like to explore this more in therapy but we didn't get to that yet. I even told this to my friend - two things... My parents neglecting me (and she was neglecting her kids in the situation and their needs) and that definitely triggered me though that wasn't the issue in the end. I was able to mostly manage my trigger. And - I shared this with my friend in the email - it was like my whole family at times - either all of them or one of the other - it felt like gaslighting (though I'm not sure if that's the right word here) where I would feel things - and the intensity of stuff and react to it then be called out as sensitive and weird, etc. So while I can't pin-point a relationship - it was more like a pattern (and my parents and sister labeled me as that) - And this incident with my friend felt similar - like her commitment was to remain "cool" and "chill" even though her circumstances were anything but that. And I reacted with alarm. She called it "intense" and then said "we should talk" and told me I was being intense. It wasn't even a request (a boundary) - and I didn't know what to do with it. And wrote her an email after things settled down - to share that I was okay with being in intense given that she and her children were in potential danger.... but she ended the friendship. I'm starting to make peace with it now. Something that stands out to me about your friend in this situation... One, that her response is inadequate to the situation, and that the risk of danger to herself and her children warrants an intense response (passionate response, thank you because that's such a good word for intensity tnr9!) Two, that on some level she recognizes her behavior as dangerous to herself and kids , but may feel powerless or in her threat response so she is ineffective at creating a healthy response. In order to cope with her feelings about that, she may have reframed it as "chill", and maybe she even feels "chill" if she is dissociating a lot... she may even polarized as the chill, reasonable person to her ex's out of control, unreasonable person, and not be owning her part in that dynamic (unable to see the big picture because of the threat response). These are just outside speculations of mine, but what I see clearly is that her responses are all about what's going on with her, and her threatening environment, not about you. You are collateral damage so yo speak, but we all end up in situations that challenge us and ignite our own internal narratives until we can eventually choose a more conscious, aware response to external events, and to people we engage with. Hope you're doing well! I am traveling but enjoying the dialog on this thread, I can relate to so much of it, especially over the last few years. I've moved away from a lot of dysfunction in my relationships but find it helpful to reflect on some of it, it helps make even more sense out of things. I've been scapegoated a lot too, to the point of absurdity. It's very cool to see others work through that. I still struggle in some ways with old old messages, that come up time to time, even when everything is good in my world. I think it's a life long journey to find your most free and happy authentic self.
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Post by seeking on Jan 10, 2022 0:57:42 GMT
Thanks, introvert!
Updating again here...
I had a convo with an old friend yesterday and he commented on the sitch with my friend who broke things off. He said, "Oh, sounds like she was looking for comfort"
Hm.
So I guess I missed that cue! But I think he is right. And I don't think I'm bad at giving comfort. I just think it didn't occur to me in that situation. I was mobilized. It still hadn't occurred to me until he said it (it might have been mentioned earlier in this thread). I think it's also hard when someone is in victim mode to give comfort (for me). Easier when it's sort of more honest pain - plus I have given her LOTS of comfort through this whole situation with her ex. And validated her lots.
I'm still torn. Part of me wants to "try to get her back" but am observing that (my anxious/pursuer parts) and if that's really a healthy thing for me now.
The truth is - lots came up over the weekend that I wish she was there for - several things - one is that I'm on a homeopathic remedy that brought a lot up and I know she'd know about. Another was that she might have gone with me to a breast scan that is a little nerve-wracking. Another is my birthday was yesterday. My ex just told me his GF is expecting another baby and I'm already going through a lot with my daughter. And I just kind of thought - where is she? So that doesn't feel unhealthy or trauma-bondy to me. That just feels more like, I want my friend back. Even if she was drowning in her own drama, I know she'd try to be there for me. She did seem to have really good intentions.
My friend made another good point that if she were father along - like post-divorce and healing, it might be a better match for me. As that's a little closer to where I am. And it would prob be less triggering too. But anyway, yeah, she's not.
So I'm watching this abandonment series on NICABM that I had to pay for, and there is this therapist talking about a client who got super triggered when she moved her office. But I love how she said this (makes me want to maybe say a version of this to my friend)....
"And so that was part of her self narrative that sabotages her and was trying to sabotage the relationship. And so I was just holding firm and saying, “I understand that that’s how it feels, but that’s just not true and I’m asking you to work with me on this until we can find a mutual understanding of what’s going on here that we can both agree to and make sense to both of us and that we can share, because we’re in this together, this is a relationship.” And so we were able to do that, so that was the language I used; because again, you have to really be mindful of how you speak to the client when they’re really triggered, they’re really upset, they’re really feeling wounded and that this is all going on in trauma-time it’s not going on in real time. So it’s important that we are very grounded and present in our own reality and that we hold the space for their reactivity without reacting to it ourselves."
I don't know if it's okay to actually share that here - I can edit and paraphrase but that struck me as SOOOO good. "I’m asking you to work with me on this until we can find a mutual understanding of what’s going on here that we can both agree to and make sense to both of us and that we can share, because we’re in this together, this is a relationship.”
But then it kind of puts me into the one who is the rock, the secure one. And I feel like - eh, I have done that SOOO many times with guys. Maybe this is different - but trying to be like the strong mom, and pulling them back.
Anyway, just sharing that much for now.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 10, 2022 2:33:08 GMT
seeking I don't think you need to let her off the hook here. She wanted to be enabled. Big schisms tend to happen in relationships when one party tries to break enabling and co-dependent behaviors or tendencies. The other person usually suddenly doesn't know how to get their needs met and would rather find a quick replacement to meet those needs than work through a shifting growth dynamic. If she wanted comfort and was being healthy about it, she could have told you. "I'm overwhelmed, I'd like to vent now and can try fixing later." But there was no way she was going to be self-aware or connected enough with herself to say that. But even if it was innocent, you missed one cue one time... after a year, a healthy friendship would be strong enough to survive one misunderstanding. If you're really worried about this with other relationships you have, you can do what I've started doing when someone is in crisis and ask if they're looking to vent or problem-solve because my default is problem-solve and I'll jump right to that if not told otherwise lol. So I do put the reason for the question on myself not them (this is my default which may not work for you, so what is best for you?) and I usually will get an honest reply and it won't be a big deal. We continue the conversation from there.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 10, 2022 2:35:49 GMT
Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! 🎂
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