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Post by anxa22 on Jan 10, 2024 23:51:12 GMT
my husband of 16 years left our home nearly 2 years ago. Since then it’s been such an awful push pull dynamic (my anxious attachment also activated which I am seeking support for). I think I’m finally coming to a place of wanting peace and finalising things. I do love him wholeheartedly and I have held on long enough thinking things might change. I have brought this up a few times last year but he says ok but doesn’t go through with it. We seem to be stuck in a never ending cycle of doom and gloom.
I have recently found out that he is exploring another relationship. He wants us to remain friends. We share 3 wonderful kids and they don’t want to visit him so we have a shared arrangement where my husband comes home to visit them. This arrangement started off 3 days a week to 7 days a week now. Some days are so normal at home like it used to be. Engaging in activities together, cooking meals together, chores around the house, fixes around the house etc.. husband initiates all of these when he is here. Yet he does not want to talk about or label his wants or what he wants our relationship to be. He is in constant contact with me lately for the past 3 months at least daily via calls, texts morning and night.. it’s so confusing and hard to not get sucked into thinking does he want to fix things. I ask the question directly and I get vague answers like I don’t know what you want me to say? Or I don’t feel any feelings or emotions. He’s had a health scare recently and mentioned he wished it was more serious so he didn’t have to live past 3 months. He feels nothing. I have so much love, support and compassion for him. I visited him in the hospital only to be turned away. Then when he was out of hospital - he recommenced his visits daily again, and was in constant contact.
Recently I brought up the conversation that i was noticing his words and actions matched in how wonderful he has been with me and the children for the past couple of months. I also asked about if he was in a relationship with someone else. I expressed that I didn't want to be fed false hope especially because I am still in love with him. And if he was exploring another relationship then i need to cut away from him completely and he will have to respect my needs. Fast forward 2 weeks, i have kept him away from me. It made him very upset accusing me of belittling him, blaming him and all sorts of stuff. He also brought up little things that seem like he is carrying resentment over small things from the past even though he has not spoken about this before. I apologised to him and explained this was so hard for me. I know i didn't have to apologise but i always did. He messaged me and stated he is now considering leaving the country.
I guess my question is - how can one who is exploring a new relationship also have these lack of feelings? Is it just me he doesn't feel anything for? But his actions towards me - tell me otherwise - he still buys me things, thinks of me in the smallest of ways and spends so much of time in our family home. In times of hard conversations or disagreements - He also talks about wishing he had 3 months to live, wishing he pays for hurt he's caused me and his family. Or talking about leaving the country away from everyone. How can one feel like that if they are exploring a relationship with another person? Or not wish to be around. There is so much mixed messaging. When I expressed how his mixed messaging was confusing me he apologised and said he doesn’t mean to give me false hope. I asked if his new partner is ok with him messaging and calling me everyday and spending so much time in our home together and he replied - she might not be ok with it but, nothing will stop me from doing what I want. Help me understand this behaviour please!
Desperately looking for some sort of closure..
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Post by anne12 on Jan 11, 2024 2:10:46 GMT
“ What types of life crises hit men the hardest?
Divorce and losing a partner is one of the things that is really bad for men. For many men, their partner is not only the closest confidant they have, it may be the only one. If they lose her, they no longer have anyone to talk to about challenges and what worries them. Where women 30-40 years ago still had an economic dependence on men in relation to getting married and starting a family, today one can say that an emotional dependence on women has arisen in the modern man. We also know that it is very often the woman who is responsible for the family's social contacts, and the one who takes care of sending the man to a psychologist or doctor if he needs help. There are a large number of parameters that indicate that it is much more important for men to be in a relationship today than it is for women.'
Why does it hit men harder when life is hard?
"Firstly, men are worse at identifying and putting into words if they feel mentally ill. If you say to a man: "It looks like you're not feeling well", the answer is often "I'm just tired", and then you don't talk about it any more. Women come with many more nuances when talking about their condition. The next prerequisite for getting help is that you seek it out. It can be both in close relationships and with professionals. We know that men are less likely to reach out than women are. Men, for example, do not ask their colleagues how they are doing to the same extent as women, nor do they want to be asked themselves. Many men simply think it is humiliating.”
“What do the men do instead of talking about the problems?
"When men are having a hard time, they often show other reactions than the classic symptoms of depression and anxiety. More men than women become extroverted, irritable and angry – reactions which can be difficult for the outside world to show care towards. And then they often withdraw from their loved ones. They might work harder at work or step up their running or cycling training. When men feel unwell, many actually find it an extra burden to be with their loved ones and talk about it, and then of course it is difficult to get help.'
Why do men have difficulty talking about feelings?
"It lies deep in our culture and civilization. In relation to the tasks that men have traditionally had, it has never been functional to start from their feelings and how they feel inside. Men have been responsible for the productive tasks outside the home – fishing, farming and factory work – or if we go back even further in time to hunt and defend the den against tigers. On the other hand, for the women who have traditionally taken care of the home and the children, it has been necessary to notice how they themselves and the rest of the family are doing. For many years, this division of functions has left its mark on what boys and girls learn and are brought up to do.
"Practically, it is still often the case in divorces that it is the man who leaves the home and the woman who stays with the children. The men can therefore suddenly find themselves without a home. Although the man usually finds a place to live, it can be a big challenge to have the children over the weekend, because in many cases it is the woman who has primarily been responsible for running the family. What will he do with the children? What should they eat? At the same time, for many men who lose their partner, it can be difficult to maintain a social life, because it is often also the wife who has made arrangements - even with the husband's family and friends. The risk is, of course, that the man becomes more and more isolated and begins to live unhealthy, eat badly and drink too much alcohol to soothe the pain. In the end, it could cost him his job.'
A specialist //researcher in mens health
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Post by anne12 on Jan 11, 2024 2:37:19 GMT
Why do you think, you let him come to your house every day ?
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Post by anne12 on Jan 11, 2024 2:45:51 GMT
Why …
My guess is because he can…!
Maybe the new woman is just a rebound, easy to have sex with ect.
He has a history with you…
Starting all over again can be difficult
And how can you actuality know that he is still with the new woman?
Maybe She got tired of him and dumped him?
Maybe he is lying to her about you,
maybe he is lying to you about her ?
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Post by anxa22 on Jan 11, 2024 2:47:43 GMT
I guess its my anxious attachment coming in to play a bit. Its a fear of letting go. But more it was always about letting him have that relationship with our children. i could see he needed that more than anything. He can't do without them. It was also me complying with what he wanted until i noticed that inspite of all the hurt I am abandoning my needs to still give him what he wanted all while he was ignoring my needs.
I know he's with her. He doesn't say and is not honest about it. But I have a feeling he is living with the person. They also work together. All along I thought it was a friendship but, I also know that when he went away overseas twice after he left me and the children - she went along with him.
After every rupture like this over the last 2 years - it's been a continuos cycle. I stop him from coming, ask for space and slowly he comes back saying he wants to see the children. And things go back to sqaure one where he just comes and goes as he pleases. He spends alot of time in our home. And maybe this time - things have to be different as i push back and express how this makes me feel.
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Post by anne12 on Jan 11, 2024 3:10:38 GMT
Why can’t he take the children to a playground, a hotel, a restaurant, a park, an amusement park, the cinema ect. ?
How old are your children ?
Have your children met her ?
Have you met her ?
How old is she ?
How old are you ?
Instead of all this second guessing, why don’t you have an honest talk with him ?
You can maybe ask if you can meet her, since he is living with her ?
Why is all this mess only your responsibility?
You DESERVE a new life too!
If you think really hard about it, do you then want him back ?
Is there a possibility that your children gets confused about him coming to your home every day ?
(Do you think that it could give them some kind of false hope that you and your ex would get back together again) - or what do you think ?
And what about you ? Aps have to ask themselves “What about me, what do I want and need ?”
There are men’s groups where men can share their difficulties or there are therapists specialized in men’s problems and their challenges.
Do you know how to set boundaries ?
(Just Telling him about what it makes you feel, is not setting a boundary)
You can also get professionel help going into couples therapy for divorsed couples, new families.
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Post by anne12 on Jan 11, 2024 4:06:14 GMT
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 11, 2024 6:43:18 GMT
It seems like you may be finally seeing a relationship for what it really is, and that is a really hard thing to go thru, I can't imagine throwing kids into that as well. Unfortunately from my experience this is only the beginning but it will be worth it when you are standing on the other side of it, and living a much happier life then you could have imagined. I think I’m finally coming to a place of wanting peace and finalising things. I do love him wholeheartedly and I have held on long enough thinking things might change. I have brought this up a few times last year but he says ok but doesn’t go through with it. We seem to be stuck in a never ending cycle of doom and gloom. I'm sorry to say, but this is not how someone who loves you acts. When someone's words and actions are not aligned, trust their actions. He has shown he is never going to break this cycle because as it stands he benefits greatly from it and has zero reason to change. I have recently found out that he is exploring another relationship. He wants us to remain friends. Of course he does, because he benefits from this arrangement. and you are letting him do so, you have no obligation to stay friends, you can co-parent without being so, which I believe other members of our board have lots of experience of navigating co-parenting without being friends. We share 3 wonderful kids and they don’t want to visit him Why are you forcing them to visit with him if they don't want to? They seem to be setting a pretty healthy and normal boundary after what he did. What do they think/feel/say about you letting him come into the home like this? From my point of view you are enabling him to violate their boundaries. IF you do not know their thoughts/feelings on this then I think it is time for you to take them to some family therapy sessions (minus him, he is no longer family) Yet he does not want to talk about or label his wants or what he wants our relationship to be. See above Fast forward 2 weeks, i have kept him away from me. It made him very upset accusing me of belittling him, blaming him and all sorts of stuff. He also brought up little things that seem like he is carrying resentment over small things from the past even though he has not spoken about this before. I apologised to him and explained this was so hard for me. I know i didn't have to apologise but i always did. He messaged me and stated he is now considering leaving the country. I guess my question is - how can one who is exploring a new relationship also have these lack of feelings? New relationships are infinitely easier then old relationships. They give us all sorts of fun chemicals that existing ones do not, such as dopamine that temporarily override any and all attachment issues we have. Plus does it matter, the only reality you need to know is the reality where he does not treat you well. Somewhere along the line you learned that someone treating you like this was not only normal, but that it was your responsibility to help/fix them. He is using pretty standard manipulation techniques here and I would recommend you pickup a copy of why does he do that - by lundy bancroft because I suspect you will be able to identify more under handed things he does to you, but you could never put a finger on. In regards to is she really okay with what he does / time he spends with you. What makes you think that he tells her any / all of this? |
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Post by anxa22 on Jan 11, 2024 9:22:01 GMT
Usernametaken.. oh wow! Talk about truth bombs. I know I have a lot of work to do but, I am currently seeing a psychologist to learn about my anxious attachment and how to ensure I become more secure for my kids..
you are correct in I was trying for a while to force the children to have a relationship with him. I thought this is what they needed as much as him.
The truth is - it was his choice to leave without consulting me or listening to my point of view on it. It was just sprung on me out of the blue.
It’s just hard to imagine that someone who I have known for over 20 years can change this way. He is stubborn and does not think he needs any therapy. He says he doesn’t want the internet or anyone to label him. He won’t even do this for the sake of our kids. He has had signs of depression also thrown into this mix. And has become very very used to alcohol. He used to be an occasional drinker.
To ask a really obvious question - is this what severe avoidant attachment is?
And yes - you are also right, I don’t know how much of the story she knows. And not sure if he tells her anything. He sure as hell won’t speak to me anymore. I get dribs and drabs of random info thrown into other conversations.
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Post by introvert on Jan 11, 2024 17:04:53 GMT
He does what he wants. He said it. That's all that matters, that's his excuse, he does what he wants. What a dick.
What are you doing?
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 11, 2024 17:55:45 GMT
I am glad you are getting support. I think your post really hit me because it all sounded so familiar to men I've dealt with in my life. Once you get into a pattern of gaslighting yourself it's very difficult to break, but you can slowly with time and support. "I get the pity remarks about himself. You're better off without me, you deserve better, I'm the burden, I will pay for the hurt I caused you and everyone." This is a learned behavior. It is something one learns as a child that it gets them the results they want and they will continue to use this maladaptive behavior thru-out their life. If you are being really honest with yourself did he really change all that much? Red Flags you ignored or didn't even know were red? I was married myself long term and it wasn't until much after that I realized how shallow our relationship truly was. People who love you want to communicate, and have these tough discussions. They want to know all of you. Short of a traumatic brain injury, it's hard for me to imagine someone going from an amazing communicative person to a stonewaller out of no where. I understand that you want to try to put him in a box to make this easier for yourself, but it doesn't change how the behavior is causing you and your children harm. I have had professionals say I am BPD, FA, ADHD, SAD, PPD, GAD. But yet I would never do the things he is doing, because as disordered as I have been I don't feel entitled to hurt people. As introvert pointed out he feels entitled to act like this. That is how an abuser thinks. I am entitled to treat this person like this. I mean he has some sort of avoidance going on, but this goes beyond an attachment type. |
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Post by mrob on Jan 11, 2024 23:20:20 GMT
As somebody who co-parents well with my ex-wife, my daughter is more important than anything, and I will do what is necessary to keep the relationship with her. That also means having a good relationship with her mother.
He's caught in a bind. The kids don’t want to go to his place, so what is he going to do? Like it or not, you have a relationship of some sort with him for the rest of your life. It’s up to you both to sort out what it looks like going forward, for the kids.
I have finished new relationships because they weren’t comfortable with my friendship with my ex-wife. My relationship with daughter is more important than any woman. It’s not about my ex-wife, it’s about my daughter.
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Post by anxa22 on Jan 11, 2024 23:25:38 GMT
Thanks all. Honestly I think I am slowly realising that I maybe an enabler. It's a secret shame that I will always carry. And i hope through therapy I will get through this. As of now - there has been no contact between us for 12 days. A small boundary in place but its working. He has tried to push and ask if he can visit the children and i said no. I'm happy with them speaking to him over the phone.
I just feel like none of what i expressed, or asked for was reciprocated. Often times i felt like my hurt when i expressed it - was invalidated. I also got the classic response when i brought up hard conversations that i was always starting something. I was always bringing up the past while he just wants to move forward. When i showed empathy, compassion and kindness in times that he was unkind - I was left to feel so stupid for caring so much to even see any good in him. So much of it makes sense now. But it's really hard to believe that someone would change into someone i honestly don't recognise anymore.
Conflict for me was always opportunities to learn, repair and grow. But for him it was always met with shutting down and sweeping things under the carpet and move on quick smart from it. Then the next day - we completely forget that anything happened the day before.
God - I really do feel stupid now..
Thanks for all your support.
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Post by anxa22 on Jan 11, 2024 23:43:57 GMT
As somebody who co-parents well with my ex-wife, my daughter is more important than anything, and I will do what is necessary to keep the relationship with her. That also means having a good relationship with her mother. He's caught in a bind. The kids don’t want to go to his place, so what is he going to do? Like it or not, you have a relationship of some sort with him for the rest of your life. It’s up to you both to sort out what it looks like going forward, for the kids. I have finished new relationships because they weren’t comfortable with my friendship with my ex-wife. My relationship with daughter is more important than any woman. It’s not about my ex-wife, it’s about my daughter. I think you read the situation well here mrob. And this is exactly why I have been supportive of him coming home here to spend time with our kids. It was important to me for them to have a relationship with their dad. And he needed this too - from where he was/is in his mental health space. But, the problem was me still being in love with him, and wanting him to see that he has a loving family who accepted him for who he was, and yes we weren't perfect but, we had kids who also need to think of. With all of his actions after he left home - he showed us that we were not priority for him at all. I can't go into details. And this is one of the reasons why the kids clung to me as they safe space. I have tried to stuff my feelings, wants and needs aside to share a safe space with our kids in our family home but, I also feel disrespected in the choices he has made. It seems like he has only chosen things for himself and not worried about how those choices impact me or the children. e.g - he could have lived anywhere else on his own but, he chose to live with someone else that he is exploring a new relationship with. I also feel like I am the one compromising still while he doesn't have to. I have enabled this situation so he doesn't feel the consequences of his actions or choices.  |
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Post by mrob on Jan 12, 2024 0:07:06 GMT
In my sordid dating post marriage, navigating my own attachment stuff and that of others, your situation is common. Don’t feel silly or naive. Most separations aren’t handled at all. They bumble along, commonly with one party covertly carrying on hope. You both have the right to get on with your lives with dignity, but your kids have the right to have both parents. I urge you to read this… particularly the checklist. It helped us, and our daughter more than any one single thing. www.relationshipswa.org.au/relationshipswa/media/documents/booklets/share_the_care.pdfAnd please resist the temptation to use the kids for your own ends. It’s a really slippery slope. You seem fair. He seems like he wants to be their dad, too. It’s not up to you to inflict consequences, but to shift the relationship to that of being for the kids. Dignity in an undignified situation. I assure you, nobody really gets off scot free. |
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