|
|
Post by summer on Jan 13, 2018 0:32:22 GMT
I'm finding that it really helps me hearing others' stories of their relationships with DAs and how those relationships played out. Hearing all the ways that overlap with my own DA love story, is so helpful to put everything into perspective. Thanks to this forum, I'm now able to see that a lot of my boyfriend's behaviors in our relationship fit a certain pattern that I wouldn't have recognized before as DA.
Here's my story...
We met at a party in 2017. Initially, he was the interested one, and pursued me. It wasn't until our second date that I started to like him back. I ended up falling hard for him. We have a certain kind of passion chemistry that in my experience is very difficult to find. I've only had that kind of connection a couple of times in my life.
We spent the first month having these intensely romantic dates. He seemed incredibly open and tender and genuine. I was just dazzled by him. It's rare for me to feel a strong physical attraction, but with him it was there in spades. The physical connection has always been AWESOME.
Very early on, however, he started up a pattern of hot and cold behavior. He would be Mr. Romance on our dates, but on the days we didn't see each other, the communication began to dwindle. He started off contacting me every day, usually texting multiple times a day, but within a few weeks that was already downshifting. Sometimes, on days we weren't together, it would feel like a door had been quietly shut in my face. He would become cold and unresponsive. It would feel like I was dating two different people - Hot Guy and Cold Guy.
There was also a great deal of inconsideration. Six weeks into our relationship, he caught a cold and just stopped contacting me for days. When we finally got together again, he was back to being Mr. Romance, and invited me to an event the next night with him, then he never called. The entire day passed by and I didn't hear anything. Finally, in the early evening, I called him, annoyed. In hindsight, this is probably when I should have walked away. But I was so crazy about him, I let it cloud my judgment.
I remember last September he talked about some concert he wanted to go to, and asked if I wanted to go along with him. It was a tentative plan, and I asked if he would let me know either way if we were going. He said "Sure" then never called.
The worst was the day he was supposed to call me back. This was around Halloween. We were finalizing details for a trip we were going on the following weekend, and I thought I would hear back from him shortly. He never called, and when I finally broke down and contacted him hours later, it still took forever to get a response, and what he did send was cryptic and vague. I found out the next day that he had gone out with some coworkers, and just completely blew off getting back to me.
These are just a few happy specimens of the kind of thing I deal with pretty consistently with him. I guess this is a testament to how fantastic the sex is, that I am still on speaking terms with him in spite of all of this. ;-)
Prior to realizing he is avoidant, I made the mistake of gently confronting him and initiating a big relationship talk, whereby I pressed him to step up and start reciprocating more. While in the moment he was agreeable, this seemed to trigger some switch being flipped, and he went into Code Red Avoidant behaviors shortly after that day - the worst of it was that he started showing up for our dates in "power save" mode. He would be smiling and polite, but totally checked out - it's like he was there physically but no one was home. He stopped sharing anything beyond surface, impersonal things (and he was never a big sharer before) and didn't seem interested in hearing my thoughts and feelings either. It felt like he cut the heart out of our relationship and what was left was cold and empty and lonely. It just became a question of how long I could stand it.
I finally cracked and broke up with him. I was very surprised that HE was so surprised. In fact I don't know that I've ever heard anyone so shocked. He was utterly speechless. To me what's shocking is that he could think that withdrawing his warmth, affection and personality from the relationship, would be A-okay with me, and that I would just along with this. !!! He ended up asking me for another chance, and because I still had such a soft spot for him, I agreed.
My attempt to end the relationship, seemed to actually bring it back to life. He started calling and texting and wanting to spend more time with me. I watched all of this with a cynical eye, and managed to hold out for a couple of weeks before getting sucked back in. My birthday happened, and he really stepped up for that. He came to Christmas with my family, and we had a great time. We have the same kind of humor, and similar interests, and I really have fun with him. I think he's hysterical. I found myself falling for him all over again.
Still though, there was a voice whispering in my ear, reminding me that all of this could end at any time. There was a feeling that I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. A few weeks ago, it finally did. I started seeing the first signs of avoidant behavior popping up. I started to get the feeling that I was perpetually having to chase him, and that he had once again started putting in the minimum required to keep his relationship going. I hadn't realized how much hope I'd been harboring that he had somehow changed, and that Mr. Romance was going to stick around for good. To see things reverting back to Avoidant Land... I was really upset, and shed a lot of tears. I still am trying to come to terms with it, because I know I don't have it in me to go another round with him - to get plunged into another "cold" period, when the man I fell in love with exits the building, and only a hollow shell is left behind.
Yesterday I said something very funny to him over text - an inside joke - and he chose to not respond. Not laughing at my jokes is one of the ways he pushes me away when he's in "avoidant mode." It really hurt when, an hour later, I saw that he was on social media. He was too busy to reply to me, but somehow found time to idle away on Snapchat. This kind of thing is hard to not feel stung by. He will begin chipping away at my bond to him with many little rejections just like this, and they can hurt like a bitch.
I am pulling away from him, and this time I'm not going to let him talk me into staying. I want to tell him, when the time comes, that I am tired of having to ask for things that in other relationships are given freely and automatically. And I'm really REALLY tired of the dynamic he creates where I'm having to perpetually chase after him.
Would love to hear your story.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 1:24:41 GMT
Ha...this one is short, and you might guess why.
With a few changes in details, it was almost EXACTLY my story.
Smitten from the go, hot/cold, communication tapered off yet acted surprised when I wanted to end it, got back, got closer, again zero communication for weeks, rinse, repeat, etc.
I'm done, wasted almost a year wasting my emotions on this. He is a great guy otherwise, a perfect match for me in EVERY WAY...sigh.
He still hinted at being together the last time we met but I'm taking it as future-faking...or maybe he's sincere and he just can't help himself, just like we can't help feeling anxious and upset with no contact, they feel anxious and upset with contact.
Yes, we like each other a lot...he said so many times how good we are together. Yet, how does one square this circle?
So...happy end or no?
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 13, 2018 1:38:05 GMT
Hey Summer...gosh I recognize so much....especially the feeling of him being there physically but checked out otherwise. IAnd i can't tell you the number of times I sent a text and waited and waited...and I saw that he had been on FB Messanger but still did not respond.....it is maddening. But as you say..and I experienced as well.....there is "that guy"... the one you just gel with and have a great time with and if "that guy" would just stick around...things would be great. I still tend to justify my ex's distancing behaviors as "normal guy stuff" but I think it is because I don't fully want to believe it is part of who he is....that it won't change. I think we all deserve someone who puts in as much as we do. I wish you so well on your journey.
|
|
|
|
Post by summer on Jan 13, 2018 1:42:33 GMT
Ha...this one is short, and you might guess why. With a few changes in details, it was almost EXACTLY my story. Smitten from the go, hot/cold, communication tapered off yet acted surprised when I wanted to end it, got back, got closer, again zero communication for weeks, rinse, repeat, etc.I'm done, wasted almost a year wasting my emotions on this. He is a great guy otherwise, a perfect match for me in EVERY WAY...sigh. He still hinted at being together the last time we met but I'm taking it as future-faking...or maybe he's sincere and he just can't help himself, just like we can't help feeling anxious and upset with no contact, they feel anxious and upset with contact. Yes, we like each other a lot...he said so many times how good we are together. Yet, how does one square this circle? So...happy end or no? Curious, I think you mentioned in other posts that you would literally only hear from this fellow once a month. How did you not go insane? He would really ignore you for weeks at a time? How long did it take to deteriorate to this level? And also, wth is he thinking that you would be okay with a boyfriend you talk to that infrequently? I do not blame you for throwing this fish back in the sea. It sounds like he comes with way too much baggage (a crippling fear of intimacy) that negates all his other good qualities. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 11:31:05 GMT
Curious, I think you mentioned in other posts that you would literally only hear from this fellow once a month. How did you not go insane? He would really ignore you for weeks at a time? How long did it take to deteriorate to this level? And also, wth is he thinking that you would be okay with a boyfriend you talk to that infrequently? I do not blame you for throwing this fish back in the sea. It sounds like he comes with way too much baggage (a crippling fear of intimacy) that negates all his other good qualities. Hi summer, it wasn't like this in the beginning. It was a long distance relationship but he has an apartment and shop in my city and he passes often on his way to other cities where the other stores are located. His daughter goes to university here too. He hinted he would move here in 6 months if things panned out for us. He was the first person I met when I posted my first online dating profile, and he changed his train ticket to meet me right after. It was very fast, very intense, very smitten from the go, just like yours and every other story here. I know that this is a red flag, but it seemed so genuine, and I believe it still is, i.e. he is still attracted to me today. I found this red flag in many other dates in between the on-off dating. I've encountered many who photobombed, message bombed, etc. right away. I didn't proceed with most of them, but another who message bombed and who had great potential, who did a lot of things right, gradually showed a side that seemed narcissistic - he criticized random people around often, the way other women dressed, etc. He told me I did everything right except once when I smelled a little of cooking, weighed it in his head, decided it was more of a "plus" than a "minus" that I cook, and told me about it!  I ran like the wind...classic NPD. Edit: I ought to explain a little here...it's not so much that I felt offended ( I was laughing really hard inside because he is such a pompous @ss...), but a classic sign of NPD is someone who always notices the flaws in others instead of the positives. I'd love to hear from others if they encountered such a red flag for Avoidants? Another red flag from the start was when he told me his ideal relationship is for two independent persons to live in different cities, meeting once every 2 weeks or so. I thought he was joking...I now realize he was aware of his Avoidance and was telling me the truth. He also told me he did the Attachment test and was Secure.  The exDA traveled a lot for his work, and to see his other daughter, family and friends, all scattered in different cities, so that explained how busy he is, spread thin. Gradually, the texts, calls, visits decreased in frequency. He traveled for vacation to Biarritz and Cuba to visit his friends. He sort of "invited" me to Biarritz but he was leaving the next day, how was it possible for me to arrange for it? The constant traveling is a great reason to not meet or communicate often. It deteriorated over the 3rd to 6th month, and it was on-off, I broke up twice, he asked to patch up twice, we had The Talk, etc. It is very strange as we would have a great date, attend a jazz festival, the next day he really didn't want to meet me at all, but the day after was ok again, we would hang out with his daughter. There was also a look of stress on his face when he needed space. At times, he would work at his computer and I would hang around feeling a bit awkward. I'm actually quite happy with alone time for myself, as I like to read, watch a good film, go to museums, care for my teenage son, though he has become independent himself, spending more time with his friends. I'm slightly Avoidant, I think...as I find too much time spent with talkative friends stressful. I find a bit of sharing fun - I enjoy retelling stressful events with black humor, but I'd get very bored and exhausted if friends go on and on about quotidian trivia (trivia to me anyways...), rude colleagues, unsympathetic directors, paying $100 for eyelash weaving....  ...so I do understand Avoidants to a certain extent. Edit: Must add though, it depends on the *nature* of the trivia - I find positive trivia more interesting, eg how my friend's daughter stood up to a bully, an act of kindness by a stranger, rather than negative. I *need* intelligent companionship, I want to learn, to reflect, etc. come to think of it, which is why he suits me so well and I'm so reluctant to let go. I won't be able to stand being with men or women who bore me 24/7. It gets easier to be decisive as I read and post more, learning about relationships with Avoidants. What helps greatly is grasping the fact that he can't and won't change, this relationship might drag on for years and he was honest from the beginning. He could love me but it has to be at this pace, he can't manage more. He will suffocate like I felt suffocated by others. Do I want this relationship EXACTLY as it is, and if not, how long do I wish to stay mired in this limbo, stuck in front of this broken pop corn machine I'm reluctant to leave because I have invested in it, and oh, when I get a little pop corn it is so good? To be fair, can *I* change to want a wonderful relationship that is "stretched out" like this? If not, I can't expect that he can change to want a relationship at what we'd consider a "normal" pace. My next goal is to learn how to filter extreme Avoidants from the go, at the level of dating profiles, or at most 2-3 dates. I can't have those months back, he is still too much in my emotional space, and I'm back to square one. I hope I'm not offending any DAs here, but I'd rather not even start anything with a DA at all in future, if I can help it. How about your situation? Do you harbor hopes that he might change or meet you halfway? As each case is different, each DA is different, I wouldn't want to offer the wrong advice, as there seems to be successful couplings too. |
|
|
|
Post by summer on Jan 13, 2018 14:57:20 GMT
Curious, I think you mentioned in other posts that you would literally only hear from this fellow once a month. How did you not go insane? He would really ignore you for weeks at a time? How long did it take to deteriorate to this level? And also, wth is he thinking that you would be okay with a boyfriend you talk to that infrequently? I do not blame you for throwing this fish back in the sea. It sounds like he comes with way too much baggage (a crippling fear of intimacy) that negates all his other good qualities. Hi summer, it wasn't like this in the beginning. It was a long distance relationship but he has an apartment and shop in my city and he passes often on his way to other cities where the other stores are located. His daughter goes to university here too. He hinted he would move here in 6 months if things panned out for us. He was the first person I met when I posted my first online dating profile, and he changed his train ticket to meet me right after. It was very fast, very intense, very smitten from the go, just like yours and every other story here.
I know that this is a red flag, but it seemed so genuine, and I believe it still is, i.e. he is still attracted to me today.
>>I've actually had LTR with secure men that started off hot and heavy. I was engaged for six years to a secure man, who, the first few months we were dating, would send me a love letter over email every single night. When I woke up in the morning, the first thing I would do is rush to my computer so I could read it. Another secure man I was with for two years, who I'm still friends with, actually wrote me a song (he's a musician) and a four-page handwritten love letter in order to "woo" me. The first 6 months of our relationship was long distance, and we were on the phone every night, emailing every day, just so into each other. I ended up moving across the country to be with him.
>>Point is, yes, with abusive/toxic suitors, a known red flag is the intense pursuit and the love bombing. But there can be a hot & heavy dynamic as well in relationships that is completely genuine. I'm sure the connection you have with your DA is real. I believe that my boyfriend does care a great deal for me, and that this is what triggers his avoidant behaviors and to push me away - they can't handle intimacy. It puts us in a very unfair position, because for a 'normal' person, intimacy with someone you're crazy about, makes you want to get closer to them. So it's like a carrot continually being dangled in your face that you can never grab onto.I found this red flag in many other dates in between the on-off dating. I've encountered many who photobombed, message bombed, etc. right away. I didn't proceed with most of them, but another who message bombed and who had great potential, who did a lot of things right, gradually showed a side that seemed narcissistic - he criticized random people around often, the way other women dressed, etc. He told me I did everything right except once when I smelled a little of cooking, weighed it in his head, decided it was more of a "plus" than a "minus" that I cook, and told me about it! I ran like the wind...classic NPD. Edit: I ought to explain a little here...it's not so much that I felt offended ( I was laughing really hard inside because he is such a pompous @ss...), but a classic sign of NPD is someone who always notices the flaws in others instead of the positives. I'd love to hear from others if they encountered such a red flag for Avoidants? Another red flag from the start was when he told me his ideal relationship is for two independent persons to live in different cities, meeting once every 2 weeks or so.>>Yes, he was showing you his cards right here. He totally put them on the table for you. Now you know what kind of relationship he wants. He wants the two of you to have completely separate lives, where he is allowed to come and go as he pleases (whenever he's not wanting to distance). As a DA, he values his independence and autonomy over any romantic relationship. Is this realistically the kind of relationship you could live with? I couldn't. But that's one that only you can answer. You have to be ruthlessly honest with yourself.I thought he was joking...I now realize he was aware of his Avoidance and was telling me the truth. He also told me he did the Attachment test and was Secure. The exDA traveled a lot for his work, and to see his other daughter, family and friends, all scattered in different cities, so that explained how busy he is, spread thin. Gradually, the texts, calls, visits decreased in frequency. He traveled for vacation to Biarritz and Cuba to visit his friends. He sort of "invited" me to Biarritz but he was leaving the next day, how was it possible for me to arrange for it? The constant traveling is a great reason to not meet or communicate often. It deteriorated over the 3rd to 6th month, and it was on-off, I broke up twice, he asked to patch up twice, we had The Talk, etc.>>Is this the stage when he started contacting you only once a month? It sounds like whatever was happening, you didn't like it and were quietly miserable until you finally would snap and try and end it. For me, the hardest thing to deal with with my boyfriend is the feeling of being ignored. That is just rough. We should not have to manage that kind of feeling on a consistent basis in a relationship. In the six years I spent with my ex-fiance, I never once felt ignored by him. Six years! Your DA was not doing enough during this time period to make you feel loved and attended to. We don't need lots of attention and constant maintenance in order to feel secure in a relationship. My boyfriend could make me feel perfectly secure with relatively little effort, and he chooses not to do that, so I spend many days in a totally unnecessary state of stress and anxiety, feeling ignored by him, or cold shouldered. And who wants to feel like that? I'm willing to bet that you were dealing with the same, and that's why you ended it those two times. Who ended it the final time? What happened?It is very strange as we would have a great date, attend a jazz festival, the next day he really didn't want to meet me at all, but the day after was ok again, we would hang out with his daughter.>>Yes, this is classic DA behavior. The more space they can get, while still keeping you in their lives, the better. I've realized with mine that he ultimately will drift to doing the bare minimum, unless he is course corrected by me. He doesn't ever seem excited to spend time with me, not since the first month or so. It is a continual battle to get my needs met, without sacrificing his ever present need for space. And because he's not self-aware, he doesn't realize he's avoidant or know anything about it. He will use endless excuses about work and hobbies in order to not spend time with me. Like you describe, I've had those days with him, usually after a great date, when he would just seem mysteriously unavailable, and not want to get together or even communicate at all. He would usually bounce back the day after that, and the "cold front" would have melted away. There was also a look of stress on his face when he needed space. At times, he would work at his computer and I would hang around feeling a bit awkward. I'm actually quite happy with alone time for myself, as I like to read, watch a good film, go to museums, care for my teenage son, though he has become independent himself, spending more time with his friends. I'm slightly Avoidant, I think...as I find too much time spent with talkative friends stressful. I find a bit of sharing fun - I enjoy retelling stressful events with black humor, but I'd get very bored and exhausted if friends go on and on about quotidian trivia (trivia to me anyways...), rude colleagues, unsympathetic directors, paying $100 for eyelash weaving.... ...so I do understand Avoidants to a certain extent.
>>That's not avoidance, I don't think - a distaste for small talk and idle chatter. Avoidants are defined by their overwhelming fear of intimacy and fear of engulfment. Small talk and chatter are the opposite of that - they're not intimate at all. In fact, my DA loves group events where there isn't any fear of deep conversation.
>>I think what you are talking about is being introverted (introverts are exhausted by that kind of social interaction). I *need* intelligent companionship, I want to learn, to reflect, etc. come to think of it, which is why he suits me so well and I'm so reluctant to let go. I won't be able to stand being with men or women who bore me 24/7.>>Have you considered getting out there and meeting new people in your effort to get over this relationship? I hope this doesn't sound patronizing. I started going to Meetup groups as an effort to get over a former relationship, and they are so great! People's walls are down and they are looking to connect and make friends. There are many people out there who can offer intelligent companionship. If you have gotten a little isolated in your own life, or your social network has dwindled down and you're not making new friends, this can serve to deepen the void left by the DA. Loneliness can make an ex seem all the more wonderful in hindsight. If you take steps to fill that void with other people/friendships, you won't miss him as much. Finding new sources of joy and stimulation is just crucial after a breakup, in my experience. It gets easier to be decisive as I read and post more, learning about relationships with Avoidants. What helps greatly is grasping the fact that he can't and won't change, this relationship might drag on for years and he was honest from the beginning. He could love me but it has to be at this pace, he can't manage more. He will suffocate like I felt suffocated by others. Do I want this relationship EXACTLY as it is, and if not, how long do I wish to stay mired in this limbo, stuck in front of this broken pop corn machine I'm reluctant to leave because I have invested in it, and oh, when I get a little pop corn it is so good?To be fair, can *I* change to want a wonderful relationship that is "stretched out" like this? If not, I can't expect that he can change to want a relationship at what we'd consider a "normal" pace.>>Sigh. Yes. I am going through the same thought process. I wish you a lot of luck in your decision about what to do. I know how hard it is, to have to walk away from something that's sooooo perfect, if it wasn't for this one huge glaring flaw that kind of outweighs everything else.My next goal is to learn how to filter extreme Avoidants from the go, at the level of dating profiles, or at most 2-3 dates. I can't have those months back, he is still too much in my emotional space, and I'm back to square one.
>>I would describe the kind of relationship you want in your profile, make it very prominent, and say that it the men reading it aren't interested in something similar, they should keep looking! And when you're on those first handful of dates, ask specific questions, like: What is your ideal relationship? What would that look like? And listen very carefully to what they say. Your DA was giving himself away with this one, and you recognized it as a red flag at the time, or just an odd thing to say, but didn't grasp how crucial this piece of info was that he was giving you. Now you know. And you can use it in future to help identify other DA types on future dates. I will say that you are dealing with (IMO) an extreme case. I cannot imagine mine going weeks without contacting me. I hope I'm not offending any DAs here, but I'd rather not even start anything with a DA at all in future, if I can help it. How about your situation? Do you harbor hopes that he might change or meet you halfway? As each case is different, each DA is different, I wouldn't want to offer the wrong advice, as there seems to be successful couplings too.>>I wish I wasn't so damn smitten with him. It would make all of this so much easier. But, I think with us, it's probably not going to last. I just don't know how much longer I can tolerate the way he treats me over text and phone - the inconsideration and inconsistency. For me, consistent behavior is KEY. In my secure relationships, my own life flourished. I put myself through school. I built a web business. I was extremely physically active and in the best shape of my life. When I feel secure in my relationships, I am "freed" to focus on other things that interest me. I've found with this DA boyfriend, that his inconsistent and inconsiderate behaviors trigger continual anxiety and stress for me, so that I am focused on him and the relationship, and not my own life. I think this is a natural reaction to emotional stress. Whatever is causing the stress, consumes our attention. So while HIS life has been doing just fine, mine has suffered.
>>It's becoming clear to me, as the months tick by, that my DA wants a relationship that is "on" 2 or 3 days a week, and "off" the other days, meaning we have minimal to no contact. He doesn't come out and tell me this, of course. I've had to figure it out for myself, along with the fact that he is DA and what his emotional needs are. He doesn't share this kind of info, because he's not self-aware. Instead, I think he genuinely believes that some behavior on my part is the reason he is distancing himself, or he believes his flimsy excuses about work and hobbies and whatever, to get out of spending time with me.
>>It would be SO much easier too if he understood himself, and could simply say to me: "I love you, but I need space this week. Would you be okay with not talking again until Thursday? I can see you on Friday and take you out for an awesome date. What do you think?" Instead, he communicates that he needs time to himself in indirect, confusing, and hurtful ways, like acting cold and standoffish on the phone for no apparent reason, or taking forever to respond to texts. I start feeling ignored, and like I'm having to chase after him to get his attention. That's usually the giveaway that he is in "avoidant mode." And it hurts every time! It's very hard to establish a foundation of trust in a relationship when you can't depend on your partner to be consistent in their availability or their treatment of you.
>>In my prior relationships with secure men, the door of communication was open 24-7, meaning either of us could call or text the other at any time. This wasn't ever abused, and neither of us ever annoyed the other with too much contact. But that feeling that the other person was "there" and available at all times, even when you weren't communicating, was lovely. It allowed me to relax and focus on my own life, and they could relax and focus on theirs. With my DA boyfriend, this feeling of the door of communication being always open, isn't there. Not at all. In fact I feel the opposite - there are plenty of times that I can sense if I contact him, it will be perceived as an intrusion. And I will be ignored, or will receive a cold, distant response. This is hard to deal with. I feel periodically shut out by my significant other, and as a result I have been unable to relax in this relationship. I think he is "training" me to tolerate his comfort zone, and is showing me through his actions what kind of relationship he wants. Like your DA, he appears to want completely separate lives. He even told me recently that he doesn't like me to ask what he's up to in his "other" life.  |
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jan 13, 2018 15:10:32 GMT
So - this is something of an epic tale.
I am late 40s - married for 16 years with lots of children. My ex partner is same age - a couple of relationships in early 20s and lots of casual encounters. He has a daughter with someone who he had an affair with during one long term relationship.
We met through a mutual friend 7 years ago - I wasn't looking for a relationship and he had exited another failed one a year earlier and given up on relationships altogether. We are uncannily similar - both intellectual, attractive, outwardly cool - ie somewhat otherworldly. same love of outdoors, classical music, outdoor swimming. For a year we were friends - kind of exclusive friends, nothing physical or romantic but a really unusual connection - strangers would say we seemed to be made for each other. I laughed and shook it off but one NYE he ended up staying over - we slept together - no sex, but that was the beginning of our relationship. He thought long and hard before we became officially a couple - said he couldn't relationships. I wasn't really convinced myself given his track record but over time it evolved into a close and loving partnership. He would mind my kids, helped me move house. He told me he felt suffocated in relationships but that this was different.
We travelled together - really well. Saw each other a couple of times a week - very little communication in between and during this time he was working - at home, alone almost obsessively. Time together was good - really good an I have my own full life with a profession, children, sports etc.There were things that were difficult:
He said I love you only once, early on, when he was drunk.
Plans were for the most part last minute - regular last minute but still were controlled by him.
Lack of contact between seeing each other - sometimes late replies to messages.
Never met his family although they knew about me.
Had times when he was emotionally distant and I seemed to almost not exist - he would talk about sailing around the world, obsess over problems with his daughter whilst not asking how I was for months at a time.
We were away for a weekend last January when I realised I had reached the end of my ability to be with him.I was completely honest and told him I couldn't deal with the apparent lack of care, that everything appeared to be all about him, .i asked for his help - my habitual behaviour as an avoidant would have been to run - but I didn't. It ended in him saying "Whatever you want". He had told me he couldn't see how counselling would help. I couldn't see how I could continue in a relationship that was hurting me and that was it. I didn't contact him again - we did meet up at his request once or twice - by then i felt really hurt and as a result effectively blocked his clumsy attempts to talk relationship.
I limped on - until a couple of months ago when I had been through terrible sadness, anger and began to feel accepting of what had happened.I have dated a bit - built or rather rebuilt a good future and feel pretty peaceful now. I still feel that for both of us this was a relationship in a million - he has told a mutual friend that if it didn't work with me, it wouldn't work with anyone.
We see each other now and then as we have a mutual hobby in common - he sends messages on practical matters and I reply politely.
Fast forward to last week - he sent a message saying he's been finding it really difficult to ask - but has been thinking about this for a very long time - would I be willing to meet.
I was initially not sure but seem to have reached a place in my healing where I want honesty and openness and no longer want to be controlled by the past - even though sometimes that control takes the guise of distancing and avoiding rather than more overt manipulation. So instead of playing the text game, I phoned him and we are meeting next week. I hope I will be able to listen with openness and compassion for both of us.
So there we have it, the not quite end of a very long story! Thanks if you have read this far....
|
|
|
|
Post by summer on Jan 13, 2018 15:34:09 GMT
So - this is something of an epic tale. I am late 40s - married for 16 years with lots of children. My ex partner is same age - a couple of relationships in early 20s and lots of casual encounters. He has a daughter with someone who he had an affair with during one long term relationship. We met through a mutual friend 7 years ago - I wasn't looking for a relationship and he had exited another failed one a year earlier and given up on relationships altogether. We are uncannily similar - both intellectual, attractive, outwardly cool - ie somewhat otherworldly. same love of outdoors, classical music, outdoor swimming. For a year we were friends - kind of exclusive friends, nothing physical or romantic but a really unusual connection - strangers would say we seemed to be made for each other. I laughed and shook it off but one NYE he ended up staying over - we slept together - no sex, but that was the beginning of our relationship. He thought long and hard before we became officially a couple - said he couldn't relationships. I wasn't really convinced myself given his track record but over time it evolved into a close and loving partnership. He would mind my kids, helped me move house. He told me he felt suffocated in relationships but that this was different. We travelled together - really well. Saw each other a couple of times a week - very little communication in between and during this time he was working - at home, alone almost obsessively. Time together was good - really good an I have my own full life with a profession, children, sports etc.There were things that were difficult: He said I love you only once, early on, when he was drunk. Plans were for the most part last minute - regular last minute but still were controlled by him. Lack of contact between seeing each other - sometimes late replies to messages.Never met his family although they knew about me. Had times when he was emotionally distant and I seemed to almost not exist - he would talk about sailing around the world, obsess over problems with his daughter whilst not asking how I was for months at a time. We were away for a weekend last January when I realised I had reached the end of my ability to be with him.I was completely honest and told him I couldn't deal with the apparent lack of care, that everything appeared to be all about him, .i asked for his help - my habitual behaviour as an avoidant would have been to run - but I didn't. It ended in him saying "Whatever you want". He had told me he couldn't see how counselling would help. I couldn't see how I could continue in a relationship that was hurting me and that was it. I didn't contact him again - we did meet up at his request once or twice - by then i felt really hurt and as a result effectively blocked his clumsy attempts to talk relationship. I limped on - until a couple of months ago when I had been through terrible sadness, anger and began to feel accepting of what had happened.I have dated a bit - built or rather rebuilt a good future and feel pretty peaceful now. I still feel that for both of us this was a relationship in a million - he has told a mutual friend that if it didn't work with me, it wouldn't work with anyone. We see each other now and then as we have a mutual hobby in common - he sends messages on practical matters and I reply politely. Fast forward to last week - he sent a message saying he's been finding it really difficult to ask - but has been thinking about this for a very long time - would I be willing to meet. I was initially not sure but seem to have reached a place in my healing where I want honesty and openness and no longer want to be controlled by the past - even though sometimes that control takes the guise of distancing and avoiding rather than more overt manipulation. So instead of playing the text game, I phoned him and we are meeting next week. I hope I will be able to listen with openness and compassion for both of us. So there we have it, the not quite end of a very long story! Thanks if you have read this far.... Ocarina, Thank you so much for sharing your story! I wish you a lot of luck in your meeting with your ex. I hope it goes well. I wanted to ask about something in your post, as it's something I have dealt with a lot with my DA boyfriend. You wrote that your pattern was to see each other a couple of times a week, with little contact otherwise. Initially you said that you were caught up with your own life and your children's lives, so this wasn't a problem, but then later you wrote that it was actually an issue for you. My DA boyfriend's comfort zone appears to be seeing each other 2 or 3 times a week and then having little to no contact the other days. This has been a continual battle with us. Were you actually okay with this arrangement, where you truly didn't mind not talking to your DA five days a week, or was it something that made you feel lonely in your relationship? This is how I often feel if I let my DA's comfort zone prevail - that lack of consistent communication leaves me feeling disconnected. It's come down to me realizing that whether or not I can accept my DA's comfort zone, is what is going to make or break this relationship. I am very curious to hear from other people in similar relationships if this style of communication works for them? Thanks again for sharing! |
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jan 13, 2018 15:44:16 GMT
I think Summer that our ability to tolerate distance varies - behaviours that are acceptable when we are healthy, have full active lives, feel optimistic, become much more challenging when other circumstances in life are challenging - maybe we are tired, ill, unemployed, or whatever.
I asked for more time at the end of our relationship because I was not OK with it - I was going through some family struggles and needed some support - he couldn't be there for me and I woke up to the fact that his underlying issues were always going to be at play in our relationship unless he chose to examine them. I don't blame him now for not going there.
For so many of us it seems if only our partner would change one small behaviour it would be fine - but in reality it's the underlying beliefs that drive these behaviours that need to be examined and healed otherwise behaviour x may be addressed but will soon be rapidly replaced by behaviour y et adinfinitim
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 16:13:38 GMT
Thank you for the detailed reply. You gave me a lot of food for thought. You're right, I spent too much time working in my 20s, and not terribly interested in the party scene out there, so I never really had many boyfriends. I had a great one for several years before he turned rogue due to his insecurities. My marriage was to a NPD, so I was used to little to no connection, dealing with all kinds of crazy-making, etc., so I might have forgotten what a healthy relationship with a Secure is really like. Compared to exNPD, this DA is simply wonderful, someone I very much look up to and respect, not to mention he looks like an old crush... While I'm more introverted, I do attend some language Meetups, went on a lot of dates from the online dating site, but have only met really bizarre or unattractive men. I'm really picky, if I don't feel physical or intellectual attraction it's hard to go on, and many do not resemble their photos. From your description, this DA seems to have some narcissistic traits, eg running off to the casino, enjoying social chatter and the attention (supply?) from those around him, acting cold towards you, cancelling on planned events. Why do you really want to stay and not cut loose? If I were meeting lots of attractive men, I wouldn't hesitate to end it at once to date others. My problem is I'm meeting lots of men but none as attractive to me. This DA is a lot of fun to be with, we laughed a lot together, same dark humor, at times we shared pensive, reflective moments and he was never cold, never cancelled on me, involved me with his decisions such as layout of his apartment, cooking for our children together, always happy to receive my texts, it's just that he had at times a visible stressed out look if I hung around too much, and his replies to me were s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d o-u-t over days, weeks. This is the reason why I was hoping and hoping he might be able to change if I mattered to him, and I felt like I did. I sort of quit when he mentioned his ideal dating pace, but he also promised he would move to my city after 6 months if things went well between us. I knew it was a big decision as it would drastically change his life, but got the impression that there was a future. Then his vacations started, 3 weeks here, 4 weeks there, 2 weeks with family, etc. I broke up early in the relationship, about 1.5 months in, the red flags in mind, and then he came and started talking seriously about our future, confirmed we were dating exclusively, etc. More happy dating, meeting his close friends, then vacations started, I was patient, when he visited he was acting like a committed boyfriend, gifts and dinners with kids, etc. Disappeared for more vacation, texted rarely, I broke up over text, we went No Contact. He moved to live in another city where he worked hard on buying over a business that went bankrupt. About 1 month of NC, he texted me again, sent photos, we met, talked, he hinted strongly he thought I should think about a long term future living in the same city. He decided to cut his real estate commitment to the other city where his other daughter was living. He has a sister who practices shamanism and he got intensive sessions to rid himself of his ex-wives stress, and maybe to cast a spell on me, haha...so that's definitely a great step forward. I didn't give a green light but we had a good evening as "friends". He was very respectful, no touching or kissing, etc. Then again vacation, a few texts and silence....and I finally texted "please let's stay No Contact", redundant anyway because the problem is little contact between us in the first place! So we have had no contact after Christmas and New Year, till today. He never gave me a reason not to like him, but 100 reasons to grow very fond of him. I was his acknowledged girlfriend, he was proud to introduce me to friends and family, and he talked about our future together a lot. This is what makes it so hard. Knowing his history, I understand that this is something that broke up his marriages and post-divorce relationships, so something that he can't control, even with therapy. The tough question I asked myself is if I would do the same, change to accept his terms, since I expect him to change to adapt to my terms? I don't feel it is fair to insist that his way is wrong, since it veers away from the "norm", and mine is right because it is closer to the norm. Yet I long for what I had with him but paced normally. I think if he had been disrespectful to me in any way, like I read in many of the stories here, I wouldn't hesitate to cut him loose. I've had so many years of disrespect from exNPD, I'd counsel not to waste a single moment at extricating oneself. It is not only wasting one's time but is devastating to one's spirit and emotions. The longer it goes on, the worse the damage. Any relationships that don't work out is a wash...so that is the only reason for my regret with exDA. If he finds a way to increase his frequency of contact, I'd take him back in a heartbeat! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 16:22:54 GMT
Ocarina, Thank you so much for sharing your story! I wish you a lot of luck in your meeting with your ex. I hope it goes well. I wanted to ask about something in your post, as it's something I have dealt with a lot with my DA boyfriend. You wrote that your pattern was to see each other a couple of times a week, with little contact otherwise. Initially you said that you were caught up with your own life and your children's lives, so this wasn't a problem, but then later you wrote that it was actually an issue for you. My DA boyfriend's comfort zone appears to be seeing each other 2 or 3 times a week and then having little to no contact the other days. This has been a continual battle with us. Were you actually okay with this arrangement, where you truly didn't mind not talking to your DA five days a week, or was it something that made you feel lonely in your relationship? This is how I often feel if I let my DA's comfort zone prevail - that lack of consistent communication leaves me feeling disconnected. It's come down to me realizing that whether or not I can accept my DA's comfort zone, is what is going to make or break this relationship. I am very curious to hear from other people in similar relationships if this style of communication works for them? Thanks again for sharing! Summer, it's not the pace that worries me in the case of your DA. I think 2-3 times a week is manageable, and you can negotiate some rules about texting frequency. It is about honoring his commitment when he suggests something to you, and not to change plans without telling you, running off with his other friends, etc. My exNPD was like that. These are the red flags I see. Ack..I should add a caveat. I am not 100% sure because I don't know the two of you. You are the only one who will truly know - so be brutally honest, did you wave some red flags? Were you AP which triggers his Avoidance? If after honest reflection you are still convinced he has been disrespectful and this has taken a toll on you, do the right thing for yourself. Love yourself. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 16:39:30 GMT
I think Summer that our ability to tolerate distance varies - behaviours that are acceptable when we are healthy, have full active lives, feel optimistic, become much more challenging when other circumstances in life are challenging - maybe we are tired, ill, unemployed, or whatever. I asked for more time at the end of our relationship because I was not OK with it - I was going through some family struggles and needed some support - he couldn't be there for me and I woke up to the fact that his underlying issues were always going to be at play in our relationship unless he chose to examine them. I don't blame him now for not going there. For so many of us it seems if only our partner would change one small behaviour it would be fine - but in reality it's the underlying beliefs that drive these behaviours that need to be examined and healed otherwise behaviour x may be addressed but will soon be rapidly replaced by behaviour y et adinfinitim Your situation is exactly what I fear that mine would end up becoming if I don't end it.  More months or years of limbo, loneliness and uncertainty... |
|
|
|
Post by summer on Jan 13, 2018 16:59:19 GMT
Ocarina, Thank you so much for sharing your story! I wish you a lot of luck in your meeting with your ex. I hope it goes well. I wanted to ask about something in your post, as it's something I have dealt with a lot with my DA boyfriend. You wrote that your pattern was to see each other a couple of times a week, with little contact otherwise. Initially you said that you were caught up with your own life and your children's lives, so this wasn't a problem, but then later you wrote that it was actually an issue for you. My DA boyfriend's comfort zone appears to be seeing each other 2 or 3 times a week and then having little to no contact the other days. This has been a continual battle with us. Were you actually okay with this arrangement, where you truly didn't mind not talking to your DA five days a week, or was it something that made you feel lonely in your relationship? This is how I often feel if I let my DA's comfort zone prevail - that lack of consistent communication leaves me feeling disconnected. It's come down to me realizing that whether or not I can accept my DA's comfort zone, is what is going to make or break this relationship. I am very curious to hear from other people in similar relationships if this style of communication works for them? Thanks again for sharing!
It is about honoring his commitment when he suggests something to you, and not to change plans without telling you, running off with his other friends, etc. My exNPD was like that. These are the red flags I see.Deleted |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 17:10:20 GMT
Ah, if you have been with an NPD ex then I'm not too worried. You should be able to tell the difference.
It is the way you described how he makes *you* feel that worries me.
You felt that his ex girlfriends were bored and strayed, that isn't a good sign either.
Plus the flaking out on plans, that to me is disrespectful, but nobody's perfect and that might be a quirk. :/
My exDA made me feel good whenever I was with him, he was in fact defensive at times to "prove" himself to me, he kept his word, he also asked me once in anguish if he were NPD like his ex had accused him, etc. However, he has a poor track record as well, 2 divorces, but he tried to be a responsible, though absent husband.
He might lack empathy but not honor?
If someone made me feel bad, eg. a "player" sort who dated me liked to flirt with women in public in front of me, I would just walk away without hesitation.
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jan 13, 2018 17:52:05 GMT
I think Summer that our ability to tolerate distance varies - behaviours that are acceptable when we are healthy, have full active lives, feel optimistic, become much more challenging when other circumstances in life are challenging - maybe we are tired, ill, unemployed, or whatever. I asked for more time at the end of our relationship because I was not OK with it - I was going through some family struggles and needed some support - he couldn't be there for me and I woke up to the fact that his underlying issues were always going to be at play in our relationship unless he chose to examine them. I don't blame him now for not going there. For so many of us it seems if only our partner would change one small behaviour it would be fine - but in reality it's the underlying beliefs that drive these behaviours that need to be examined and healed otherwise behaviour x may be addressed but will soon be rapidly replaced by behaviour y et adinfinitim Your situation is exactly what I fear that mine would end up becoming if I don't end it. More months or years of limbo, loneliness and uncertainty... With time the myriads of smallavoidant behaviours can really erode your feelings of self worth. I am fairly skilled at processing feelings, not taking things personally and having my own life but the resentment still crept in. It seems to be a human need to experience love - this must first be self love and self compassion which then gives us the well to draw from to give to others. When we repeatedly tolerate behaviour that makes us feel bad, however subtly, we can't fail to become less loving ourselves to begin to be manipulative to get attention. Often the manipulation was so under the radar that I didn't even recognise it but in effect my falling into place with his behaviours was being done in order to keep the peace - to get me more of what made me feel good. In short whilst I felt I was the good guy in this we were both controlling things in order to get our needs met. With some distance I now see that the loving thing to do for him would have been to be honest and then to leave and wish him well with all my heart - and to offer myself the same wish rather than demanding that he supply me with whatever I needed to feel good even if that was not within his power. Thank you for starting this thread summer, it has given me food for thought. |
|
...so I do understand Avoidants to a certain extent.
More months or years of limbo, loneliness and uncertainty...