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Post by happyidiot on Aug 8, 2018 20:27:23 GMT
Is there a way to foresee when someone is likely to break up with or ghost you without warning?
Backstory:
My last relationship was with someone who I'm now pretty confident is a FA that I mistook for a secure. I purposely looked for signs that are usually red flags for me and didn't see any. He didn't say anything to indicate being emotionally unavailable for anything ongoing/serious such as that he was planning to move or hung up on an ex or having just been through a recent breakup or "not looking for anything serious", he'd had a serious multi-year relationship before and they seem to be on good terms, he seemed consistent, he seemed very considerate, he went out of his way to make me happy and reassure me (without me asking), he bought me gifts, he talked about things he wanted to do with me in the future, etc. I wasn't immediately drawn to him in an addictive way, instead my attraction and feelings grew steadily over time.
I definitely noticed he seemed insecure and shy and hard on himself, and he told me he was awkward with women. I attributed anything I perceived about him as guarded or slow moving to his shyness and insecurities. I at least initially thought that if anything he was more into me than I was into him. I asked him out a bit more often than he asked me out, but he always responded very enthusiastically and never said he was too busy or anything. Partly that was due to pressure from my friends, who all said that he really liked me and was just shy and there is nothing wrong with a woman asking a man out. We didn't see each other super often but we both have pretty full lives, and since my previous relationship was with a secure person and we didn't see each other any more frequently I didn't think much of it, I just assumed people with healthy secure attachments don't need to see each other every day and it also keeps things exciting and special. Things seemed to be be slowly getting more serious. Not long before I saw him last we had told each other that we weren't seeing any other people. After that things seemed great to me, he didn't act distant and if anything was texting more. The last time we saw each other, without my asking, he said he'd see me as soon as I was done a work thing that would keep me busy for a week. Only days in, he suddenly stopped replying to my texts and then broke up with me in a text. He told me he never had feelings for me. He also told me a few things that seemed contradictory. He said repeatedly that he wanted to talk in person as soon as I was done my work, without me asking for that in any way. I said I would definitely like that, reminded him which day I was done and told him I'd leave it up to him to set the date in case he needed space. Then he stopped communicating. There are plenty more details but I'm trying to keep this semi-concise.
I didn't know as much about attachment theory then as I do now. I cannot imagine that anyone with a secure attachment style would act like this with no warning and can only conclude he got scared. This has really thrown me through a loop because in the past avoidants have given me major clues that they are not available for a relationship and I was not so surprised when they left, even if I had sailed past their red flags. This guy seemed like the kindest person I'd met and I felt truly cared about. I think that a caring, respectful secure person who just didn't have strong enough feelings to want a relationship would give clues or talk about what they wanted or back off gradually, not seem to be moving closer and then suddenly leave out of nowhere.
What to do now? Is the solution to avoid falling in love with people who would do this to never chase anyone in any way, to never initiate texts or dates? Would they eliminate themselves that way, by leaving sooner? I don't really know how to avoid getting attached to a man like this.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 8, 2018 21:12:07 GMT
Hello and welcome.
What to do now - I am not sure for a start that we know what's going on here. He could have exited for any number of reasons - the fact that he didn't share why with you at the time, is not polite but it doesn't really shed any light on what's going on with him. I understand the rabbit hole it's tempting to go down and also the need to do things differently next time, to avoid the pain but in all honesty, being in an intimate relationship involves risk and opening your heart.
I don't think there is a solution as such - except to heal yourself fully and be compassionate to yourself in your moving forward.
It takes a very long time to really know someone and the majority of relationships to fade for whatever reason during the getting to know stage. How long were you together?
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 8, 2018 22:06:48 GMT
Thanks for your reply! Sorry if I was unclear, he said that the reason he was breaking up with me was because he never had feelings for me. He said he had hoped they'd materialize. I feel like there is more to the story than he explained.
In my experience usually if someone is gradually realizing they aren't growing the deeper feelings they are looking for, they tend to distance themselves and try not to do things that create expectations in the other person. It didn't feel like anything was fading: he wasn't spending less time with me or texting less or talking about the future less or anything. I'd maybe been feeling a tad needy just before he broke up with me (something bad happened to me), but it was nothing that I imagine would scare most people away that fast and far, even if they were feeling unsure about me. I got the break up text immediately after the first time I said anything whatsoever to him that could possibly be perceived as at all critical.
We were dating about 3 months, however it was slow at the beginning (he'd said this was because he didn't know if I liked him in that way). I really thought we had a real connection and there were no noticeable problems or incompatibilities between us. We seemed extremely similar aside from the end. Why do you think it's so common for relationships to end within the first 2-3 months?
A lot of people say that the best way for an AP to become more secure is to only date secures. So perhaps I am wondering how to avoid avoidants earlier on. I truly believe that this guy is not just a jerk who lead me on.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 9, 2018 0:18:16 GMT
I don't think you have enough information to know if he's FA. I'd say I am only sure about 3 people in my entire life being FA, and was only sure after I'd known each very emotionally intimately for years and they'd shared quite a lot about themselves and issues with me. And I know a LOT of people, 3 is so few!
More importantly, after 3 months, you also don't need to know. What you do need to know is if you're dating for a short period of time and the guy flakes out, let him. He sounds unstable in some way for some reason, has probably done this to other people before, and it's probably not your problem or because of you. He's done you a favor by keeping it short.
Any time I've ever tried to keep something together that was having any real drama in the first three months, it was a mistake to do that and the guy had much deeper things going on. Some of those guys became good friends, but romantically? No, they were a mess with me and I've seen them be a repetitive mess for years after me.
Telling someone they were faking feelings is a horrible thing to say. But you have no idea what he's actually thinking, so don't attribute anything positive or negative, and try to avoid taking it personally. There's obviously an issue, but it's on him that he didn't communicate. Maybe it's that his dog died before you met and he still feels numb. It's probably not that, but point is it can be anything. One thing that's for sure, I find it obnoxious to break up with someone after three months over text and not in person or at the very least on the phone. You don't need to be treated that way -- and recognizing when you're being mistreated and should walk instead of you should "try harder" is a secure behavior.
I don't think you have to beware of the red flags if it's the first time you've ever experienced anything like this and it's not a pattern. Better off focusing on yourself and your reactions, and whether those seem healthy/secure. After some time away, you might have new perspective on if everything was as stable as it seemed, on both your sides. Or, he might pop back up and give you new information.
If it is a pattern, focus on yourself anyway! I know how easy it will be to ruminate over this, and no judgements there. But I strongly suspect you're just going to end up realizing this guy isn't worth your time, and you don't get too hard on yourself in the meantime. Great that you're understanding attachment theory -- focus it on yourself to help learn about yourself and improve your confidence (always an AP problem). Don't worry about someone you barely know.
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 9, 2018 7:18:26 GMT
I don't think you have enough information to know if he's FA. I'd say I am only sure about 3 people in my entire life being FA, and was only sure after I'd known each very emotionally intimately for years and they'd shared quite a lot about themselves and issues with me. And I know a LOT of people, 3 is so few! More importantly, after 3 months, you also don't need to know. What you do need to know is if you're dating for a short period of time and the guy flakes out, let him. He sounds unstable in some way for some reason, has probably done this to other people before, and it's probably not your problem or because of you. He's done you a favor by keeping it short. Any time I've ever tried to keep something together that was having any real drama in the first three months, it was a mistake to do that and the guy had much deeper things going on. Some of those guys became good friends, but romantically? No, they were a mess with me and I've seen them be a repetitive mess for years after me. Telling someone they were faking feelings is a horrible thing to say. But you have no idea what he's actually thinking, so don't attribute anything positive or negative, and try to avoid taking it personally. There's obviously an issue, but it's on him that he didn't communicate. Maybe it's that his dog died before you met and he still feels numb. It's probably not that, but point is it can be anything. One thing that's for sure, I find it obnoxious to break up with someone after three months over text and not in person or at the very least on the phone. You don't need to be treated that way -- and recognizing when you're being mistreated and should walk instead of you should "try harder" is a secure behavior. I don't think you have to beware of the red flags if it's the first time you've ever experienced anything like this and it's not a pattern. Better off focusing on yourself and your reactions, and whether those seem healthy/secure. After some time away, you might have new perspective on if everything was as stable as it seemed, on both your sides. Or, he might pop back up and give you new information. If it is a pattern, focus on yourself anyway! I know how easy it will be to ruminate over this, and no judgements there. But I strongly suspect you're just going to end up realizing this guy isn't worth your time, and you don't get too hard on yourself in the meantime. Great that you're understanding attachment theory -- focus it on yourself to help learn about yourself and improve your confidence (always an AP problem). Don't worry about someone you barely know. Thank you alexandra! I have a lot of other reasons to think he is FA, I just didn't post them, and it was also a psychologist who initially casually suggested it to me. And to my knowledge even what I said in my post about this guy's behavior is simply not secure behavior, even if he had other life issues, am I wrong? I don't think it takes years to spot a likely FA. I haven't been able to keep any around for years, aside from one who has always been purely a friend, who knows/says full well they are FA and puts a lot of time/effort into working on it. I'm sure you're right that there was something going on that has little or nothing to do with me. Just like me feeling needy was triggered mainly by something that had nothing to do with him. I do have a pattern of being highly attracted to avoidants who end up ghosting, and a pattern of expecting people I care about to either keep their word or explain themselves and being confused when they seem to find that so hard, but so far not a pattern of mistakenly thinking people are safe/healthy for me and then having them dump me out of left field. Trying to see if I can be less blind and reduce the likelihood of something like this surprising me again is part of focussing on myself and learning how to trust myself and others. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 9, 2018 9:08:19 GMT
I agree with posters above, FAs are rare beasts. And people can be FA at different stages in their life and with different people. This guy has said he didn't have feelings for you, and was good enough to stop things after three months. It hurts, and I'm sorry, but like previous posters have said he probably has other stuff going on, or he was hoping his feelings for you would grow over time but they didn't, and he didn't want to waste any more of yours or his time. I'm sure he feels a bad about the whole thing, but he hasn't indicated any on/off behaviour and has been quite clear with you (although doing things by text isn't good). There's nothing there to indicate he is a fearful avoidant, if anything he has been quite clear with his communication and behaviour even if the end came out of the blue . FAs are confusing people, his behaviour doesn't appear confusing to me. Maybe he's avoidant, maybe he's secure or maybe he is FA or AP or all of the above! People can be ever changing mixes of the four depending on the relationship . None of us know. But you need to put this one behind you and move on to the next person. Know it's tough and you are grieving a bit but hey, that's the dating game. It's shit sometimes. We've all had the bad experiences, it's why we are all here. Every minute of every day somewhere in the world someone is going through what you are going through now. Pick yourself up and when ready, you go again x
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Post by lilyg on Aug 9, 2018 10:50:01 GMT
Hello and welcome! We cannot tell you if he has an attachment wound if we don't have detail. People don't tend to say the true reasons why they break up with someone. Maybe he grew tired of being with somebody, or thought that you were not compatible, or found somebody else. Of course he doesn't 'have feelings', as 3 months it's too.. soon. Before meeting my boyfriend, I was getting to know a really kind and great man. We had lots of chemistry and fun dates. But he started to demand more and more of my time and I was not in the best place of my life, and… I think my problems + him needing more time rom me and trying to take it to the next level (we were not dating per se, at least from my point of view) = too much for me to handle. I did not see us like a great match in the long-run (I am a woman very focused in her career and he… well, he wasn't. It is a bit more complicated but yeah).And yeah, instead of talking to him about it I just 'broke up' with him even if he tried to talk to me about it. Sometimes there are some things that you cannot 'talk through' if you've been getting to know each other for a short-time. I think it's normal for relationships to end soon (dating is the process of seeing if somebody is compatible enough for you in the long run). I'm mostly secure and I will end a relationship soon if I feel it's not something I feel it's for me at that moment.But FAs, for example, tend to be serial monogamists with many short-lived relationships. It seems this guy wasn't like that so cheers on taking that in consideration for dating him  In this Tinder-era is normal for guys to 'ghost' (I'm talking about you being attracted to 'avoidants who end up ghosting', not him). We all have a lot of options in 2018. But if you think you fall for unavailable men, maybe you should look inside you and see if you need to work on yourself. Maybe you just had bad luck. About avoiding 'flaky guys who ghost', well… I initiate in an equal way as men (as in, sometimes I call first, or invite them to hang out if they've provided me with good conversation beforehand), but I always try to be a step back on the first few months (just a step! Guys don't have to do all the work). 1. Assume everyone you meet are seeing other people (unless you define an exclusive relationship). So disappearing usually means he found somebody 'better suited' for them, 2. Don't invest in guys who does not invest in you equally, 3. Clearly state your standards in a nice way I see a lot of my girlfriends having trouble with these things (and I had lots of trouble with these things when I started dating) and these 'tips' tend to weed flaky guys (I think flaky guys ghosting after few months is not the same as having an avoidant attachment style, of course). I really think you did nothing wrong with this guy at all, so keep going on. I also think there's something else going on that has nothing to do with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 12:10:26 GMT
i think the best way to avoid relationships that are dead end or dysfunctional , whether with an avoidant or any other attachment style,
is to stop rationalizing behavior that isn't conducive to a mutually satisfying relationship.
In your post you second guess the red flags of unavailability.
He says feelings never developed, but you may have been attached and hoping for emotional reciprocity where there were none.
You are looking for clues to his behavior when he already showed you who and how he is- you just chalked it up to insecurity and shyness.
Even when he told you he doesn't have feelings for you, you state that you think there is more to the story.
You aren't paying attention to his input.
So this, i think, can be a real trap for AP- attaching to an unavailable person, rationalizing the attachment and relationship against evidence that suggests the partner really isn't that interested (think of the unavailable parent you are wanting to win love from) .
In this case, and in every case, i believe it's more helpful to write a long post about how you were in AP mode with an unavailable partner, and found yourself minimizing and denying some things in order to try to build something with a guy who wasn't reciprocal.
.
I am not trying to be harsh but is that not what this is about?
You becoming more secure so you can pick secure partners?
If so, you will really have to pull out and examine what red flags for your own AP Behavior that you missed.
Best to you, the process is an arduous one!
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 9, 2018 20:44:12 GMT
I agree with posters above, FAs are rare beasts. And people can be FA at different stages in their life and with different people. This guy has said he didn't have feelings for you, and was good enough to stop things after three months. It hurts, and I'm sorry, but like previous posters have said he probably has other stuff going on, or he was hoping his feelings for you would grow over time but they didn't, and he didn't want to waste any more of yours or his time. I'm sure he feels a bad about the whole thing, but he hasn't indicated any on/off behaviour and has been quite clear with you (although doing things by text isn't good). There's nothing there to indicate he is a fearful avoidant, if anything he has been quite clear with his communication and behaviour even if the end came out of the blue . FAs are confusing people, his behaviour doesn't appear confusing to me. Maybe he's avoidant, maybe he's secure or maybe he is FA or AP or all of the above! People can be ever changing mixes of the four depending on the relationship . None of us know. But you need to put this one behind you and move on to the next person. Know it's tough and you are grieving a bit but hey, that's the dating game. It's shit sometimes. We've all had the bad experiences, it's why we are all here. Every minute of every day somewhere in the world someone is going through what you are going through now. Pick yourself up and when ready, you go again x Hello and welcome! We cannot tell you if he has an attachment wound if we don't have detail. People don't tend to say the true reasons why they break up with someone. Maybe he grew tired of being with somebody, or thought that you were not compatible, or found somebody else. Of course he doesn't 'have feelings', as 3 months it's too.. soon. Before meeting my boyfriend, I was getting to know a really kind and great man. We had lots of chemistry and fun dates. But he started to demand more and more of my time and I was not in the best place of my life, and… I think my problems + him needing more time rom me and trying to take it to the next level (we were not dating per se, at least from my point of view) = too much for me to handle. I did not see us like a great match in the long-run (I am a woman very focused in her career and he… well, he wasn't. It is a bit more complicated but yeah).And yeah, instead of talking to him about it I just 'broke up' with him even if he tried to talk to me about it. Sometimes there are some things that you cannot 'talk through' if you've been getting to know each other for a short-time. I think it's normal for relationships to end soon (dating is the process of seeing if somebody is compatible enough for you in the long run). I'm mostly secure and I will end a relationship soon if I feel it's not something I feel it's for me at that moment.But FAs, for example, tend to be serial monogamists with many short-lived relationships. It seems this guy wasn't like that so cheers on taking that in consideration for dating him In this Tinder-era is normal for guys to 'ghost' (I'm talking about you being attracted to 'avoidants who end up ghosting', not him). We all have a lot of options in 2018. But if you think you fall for unavailable men, maybe you should look inside you and see if you need to work on yourself. Maybe you just had bad luck. About avoiding 'flaky guys who ghost', well… I initiate in an equal way as men (as in, sometimes I call first, or invite them to hang out if they've provided me with good conversation beforehand), but I always try to be a step back on the first few months (just a step! Guys don't have to do all the work). 1. Assume everyone you meet are seeing other people (unless you define an exclusive relationship). So disappearing usually means he found somebody 'better suited' for them, 2. Don't invest in guys who does not invest in you equally, 3. Clearly state your standards in a nice way I see a lot of my girlfriends having trouble with these things (and I had lots of trouble with these things when I started dating) and these 'tips' tend to weed flaky guys (I think flaky guys ghosting after few months is not the same as having an avoidant attachment style, of course). I really think you did nothing wrong with this guy at all, so keep going on. I also think there's something else going on that has nothing to do with you. i think the best way to avoid relationships that are dead end or dysfunctional , whether with an avoidant or any other attachment style, is to stop rationalizing behavior that isn't conducive to a mutually satisfying relationship. In your post you second guess the red flags of unavailability. He says feelings never developed, but you may have been attached and hoping for emotional reciprocity where there were none. You are looking for clues to his behavior when he already showed you who and how he is- you just chalked it up to insecurity and shyness. Even when he told you he doesn't have feelings for you, you state that you think there is more to the story. You aren't paying attention to his input. So this, i think, can be a real trap for AP- attaching to an unavailable person, rationalizing the attachment and relationship against evidence that suggests the partner really isn't that interested (think of the unavailable parent you are wanting to win love from) . In this case, and in every case, i believe it's more helpful to write a long post about how you were in AP mode with an unavailable partner, and found yourself minimizing and denying some things in order to try to build something with a guy who wasn't reciprocal. . I am not trying to be harsh but is that not what this is about? You becoming more secure so you can pick secure partners? If so, you will really have to pull out and examine what red flags for your own AP Behavior that you missed. Best to you, the process is an arduous one! Thanks everyone! brokenbiscuit - I left out a million things in my original post about his behavior while we were together and in his life in general, since I wasn't asking people to tell me if he was FA or not. It's not correct to assume that there was no on/off, push/pull, or confusion. Once he didn't talk to me for 10 days, just as one example. It's a long story. I didn't realize most people would focus on telling me why I am wrong to feel he is FA. lilyg - I like your idea of being just a step behind in terms of initiating with men for the first few months, rather than feeling like I have to completely sit back and only date men who initiate all of the texts and dates. Perhaps sometimes I might not know what a step behind is though and be chasing more than I realize. I've gotten good at eliminating flaky ghosty men early or moving on fast from them, I meant just what I said, that I have a history of being drawn to avoidants who ghost. The most dramatic example was someone I saw on and off for quite a long time. Once he abruptly went from daily texting to not answering me for months. I could probably still be entangled with him if I hadn't eventually removed myself and worked on my growth. He screamed of red flags from the beginning but I was in a different place than I'm in now and I didn't care. juniper - on your advice I made a new post. All of you kind people's input would be welcome. It's here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1240/ap-manifested-last-bf |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 21:43:22 GMT
I agree with posters above, FAs are rare beasts. And people can be FA at different stages in their life and with different people. This guy has said he didn't have feelings for you, and was good enough to stop things after three months. It hurts, and I'm sorry, but like previous posters have said he probably has other stuff going on, or he was hoping his feelings for you would grow over time but they didn't, and he didn't want to waste any more of yours or his time. I'm sure he feels a bad about the whole thing, but he hasn't indicated any on/off behaviour and has been quite clear with you (although doing things by text isn't good). There's nothing there to indicate he is a fearful avoidant, if anything he has been quite clear with his communication and behaviour even if the end came out of the blue . FAs are confusing people, his behaviour doesn't appear confusing to me. Maybe he's avoidant, maybe he's secure or maybe he is FA or AP or all of the above! People can be ever changing mixes of the four depending on the relationship . None of us know. But you need to put this one behind you and move on to the next person. Know it's tough and you are grieving a bit but hey, that's the dating game. It's shit sometimes. We've all had the bad experiences, it's why we are all here. Every minute of every day somewhere in the world someone is going through what you are going through now. Pick yourself up and when ready, you go again x Hello and welcome! We cannot tell you if he has an attachment wound if we don't have detail. People don't tend to say the true reasons why they break up with someone. Maybe he grew tired of being with somebody, or thought that you were not compatible, or found somebody else. Of course he doesn't 'have feelings', as 3 months it's too.. soon. Before meeting my boyfriend, I was getting to know a really kind and great man. We had lots of chemistry and fun dates. But he started to demand more and more of my time and I was not in the best place of my life, and… I think my problems + him needing more time rom me and trying to take it to the next level (we were not dating per se, at least from my point of view) = too much for me to handle. I did not see us like a great match in the long-run (I am a woman very focused in her career and he… well, he wasn't. It is a bit more complicated but yeah).And yeah, instead of talking to him about it I just 'broke up' with him even if he tried to talk to me about it. Sometimes there are some things that you cannot 'talk through' if you've been getting to know each other for a short-time. I think it's normal for relationships to end soon (dating is the process of seeing if somebody is compatible enough for you in the long run). I'm mostly secure and I will end a relationship soon if I feel it's not something I feel it's for me at that moment.But FAs, for example, tend to be serial monogamists with many short-lived relationships. It seems this guy wasn't like that so cheers on taking that in consideration for dating him In this Tinder-era is normal for guys to 'ghost' (I'm talking about you being attracted to 'avoidants who end up ghosting', not him). We all have a lot of options in 2018. But if you think you fall for unavailable men, maybe you should look inside you and see if you need to work on yourself. Maybe you just had bad luck. About avoiding 'flaky guys who ghost', well… I initiate in an equal way as men (as in, sometimes I call first, or invite them to hang out if they've provided me with good conversation beforehand), but I always try to be a step back on the first few months (just a step! Guys don't have to do all the work). 1. Assume everyone you meet are seeing other people (unless you define an exclusive relationship). So disappearing usually means he found somebody 'better suited' for them, 2. Don't invest in guys who does not invest in you equally, 3. Clearly state your standards in a nice way I see a lot of my girlfriends having trouble with these things (and I had lots of trouble with these things when I started dating) and these 'tips' tend to weed flaky guys (I think flaky guys ghosting after few months is not the same as having an avoidant attachment style, of course). I really think you did nothing wrong with this guy at all, so keep going on. I also think there's something else going on that has nothing to do with you. i think the best way to avoid relationships that are dead end or dysfunctional , whether with an avoidant or any other attachment style, is to stop rationalizing behavior that isn't conducive to a mutually satisfying relationship. In your post you second guess the red flags of unavailability. He says feelings never developed, but you may have been attached and hoping for emotional reciprocity where there were none. You are looking for clues to his behavior when he already showed you who and how he is- you just chalked it up to insecurity and shyness. Even when he told you he doesn't have feelings for you, you state that you think there is more to the story. You aren't paying attention to his input. So this, i think, can be a real trap for AP- attaching to an unavailable person, rationalizing the attachment and relationship against evidence that suggests the partner really isn't that interested (think of the unavailable parent you are wanting to win love from) . In this case, and in every case, i believe it's more helpful to write a long post about how you were in AP mode with an unavailable partner, and found yourself minimizing and denying some things in order to try to build something with a guy who wasn't reciprocal. . I am not trying to be harsh but is that not what this is about? You becoming more secure so you can pick secure partners? If so, you will really have to pull out and examine what red flags for your own AP Behavior that you missed. Best to you, the process is an arduous one! Thanks everyone! brokenbiscuit - I left out a million things in my original post about his behavior while we were together and in his life in general, since I wasn't asking people to tell me if he was FA or not. It's not correct to assume that there was no on/off, push/pull, or confusion. Once he didn't talk to me for 10 days, just as one example. It's a long story. I didn't realize most people would focus on telling me why I am wrong to feel he is FA. lilyg - I like your idea of being just a step behind in terms of initiating with men for the first few months, rather than feeling like I have to completely sit back and only date men who initiate all of the texts and dates. Perhaps sometimes I might not know what a step behind is though and be chasing more than I realize. I've gotten good at eliminating flaky ghosty men early or moving on fast from them, I meant just what I said, that I have a history of being drawn to avoidants who ghost. The most dramatic example was someone I saw on and off for quite a long time. Once he abruptly went from daily texting to not answering me for months. I could probably still be entangled with him if I hadn't eventually removed myself and worked on my growth. He screamed of red flags from the beginning but I was in a different place than I'm in now and I didn't care. juniper - on your advice I made a new post. All of you kind people's input would be welcome. It's here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1240/ap-manifested-last-bfi have MAD RESPECT for this, i will be along to read your new post this evening! |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 10, 2018 9:17:19 GMT
I agree with posters above, FAs are rare beasts. And people can be FA at different stages in their life and with different people. This guy has said he didn't have feelings for you, and was good enough to stop things after three months. It hurts, and I'm sorry, but like previous posters have said he probably has other stuff going on, or he was hoping his feelings for you would grow over time but they didn't, and he didn't want to waste any more of yours or his time. I'm sure he feels a bad about the whole thing, but he hasn't indicated any on/off behaviour and has been quite clear with you (although doing things by text isn't good). There's nothing there to indicate he is a fearful avoidant, if anything he has been quite clear with his communication and behaviour even if the end came out of the blue . FAs are confusing people, his behaviour doesn't appear confusing to me. Maybe he's avoidant, maybe he's secure or maybe he is FA or AP or all of the above! People can be ever changing mixes of the four depending on the relationship . None of us know. But you need to put this one behind you and move on to the next person. Know it's tough and you are grieving a bit but hey, that's the dating game. It's shit sometimes. We've all had the bad experiences, it's why we are all here. Every minute of every day somewhere in the world someone is going through what you are going through now. Pick yourself up and when ready, you go again x Hello and welcome! We cannot tell you if he has an attachment wound if we don't have detail. People don't tend to say the true reasons why they break up with someone. Maybe he grew tired of being with somebody, or thought that you were not compatible, or found somebody else. Of course he doesn't 'have feelings', as 3 months it's too.. soon. Before meeting my boyfriend, I was getting to know a really kind and great man. We had lots of chemistry and fun dates. But he started to demand more and more of my time and I was not in the best place of my life, and… I think my problems + him needing more time rom me and trying to take it to the next level (we were not dating per se, at least from my point of view) = too much for me to handle. I did not see us like a great match in the long-run (I am a woman very focused in her career and he… well, he wasn't. It is a bit more complicated but yeah).And yeah, instead of talking to him about it I just 'broke up' with him even if he tried to talk to me about it. Sometimes there are some things that you cannot 'talk through' if you've been getting to know each other for a short-time. I think it's normal for relationships to end soon (dating is the process of seeing if somebody is compatible enough for you in the long run). I'm mostly secure and I will end a relationship soon if I feel it's not something I feel it's for me at that moment.But FAs, for example, tend to be serial monogamists with many short-lived relationships. It seems this guy wasn't like that so cheers on taking that in consideration for dating him In this Tinder-era is normal for guys to 'ghost' (I'm talking about you being attracted to 'avoidants who end up ghosting', not him). We all have a lot of options in 2018. But if you think you fall for unavailable men, maybe you should look inside you and see if you need to work on yourself. Maybe you just had bad luck. About avoiding 'flaky guys who ghost', well… I initiate in an equal way as men (as in, sometimes I call first, or invite them to hang out if they've provided me with good conversation beforehand), but I always try to be a step back on the first few months (just a step! Guys don't have to do all the work). 1. Assume everyone you meet are seeing other people (unless you define an exclusive relationship). So disappearing usually means he found somebody 'better suited' for them, 2. Don't invest in guys who does not invest in you equally, 3. Clearly state your standards in a nice way I see a lot of my girlfriends having trouble with these things (and I had lots of trouble with these things when I started dating) and these 'tips' tend to weed flaky guys (I think flaky guys ghosting after few months is not the same as having an avoidant attachment style, of course). I really think you did nothing wrong with this guy at all, so keep going on. I also think there's something else going on that has nothing to do with you. i think the best way to avoid relationships that are dead end or dysfunctional , whether with an avoidant or any other attachment style, is to stop rationalizing behavior that isn't conducive to a mutually satisfying relationship. In your post you second guess the red flags of unavailability. He says feelings never developed, but you may have been attached and hoping for emotional reciprocity where there were none. You are looking for clues to his behavior when he already showed you who and how he is- you just chalked it up to insecurity and shyness. Even when he told you he doesn't have feelings for you, you state that you think there is more to the story. You aren't paying attention to his input. So this, i think, can be a real trap for AP- attaching to an unavailable person, rationalizing the attachment and relationship against evidence that suggests the partner really isn't that interested (think of the unavailable parent you are wanting to win love from) . In this case, and in every case, i believe it's more helpful to write a long post about how you were in AP mode with an unavailable partner, and found yourself minimizing and denying some things in order to try to build something with a guy who wasn't reciprocal. . I am not trying to be harsh but is that not what this is about? You becoming more secure so you can pick secure partners? If so, you will really have to pull out and examine what red flags for your own AP Behavior that you missed. Best to you, the process is an arduous one! Thanks everyone! brokenbiscuit - I left out a million things in my original post about his behavior while we were together and in his life in general, since I wasn't asking people to tell me if he was FA or not. It's not correct to assume that there was no on/off, push/pull, or confusion. Once he didn't talk to me for 10 days, just as one example. It's a long story. I didn't realize most people would focus on telling me why I am wrong to feel he is FA. lilyg - I like your idea of being just a step behind in terms of initiating with men for the first few months, rather than feeling like I have to completely sit back and only date men who initiate all of the texts and dates. Perhaps sometimes I might not know what a step behind is though and be chasing more than I realize. I've gotten good at eliminating flaky ghosty men early or moving on fast from them, I meant just what I said, that I have a history of being drawn to avoidants who ghost. The most dramatic example was someone I saw on and off for quite a long time. Once he abruptly went from daily texting to not answering me for months. I could probably still be entangled with him if I hadn't eventually removed myself and worked on my growth. He screamed of red flags from the beginning but I was in a different place than I'm in now and I didn't care. juniper - on your advice I made a new post. All of you kind people's input would be welcome. It's here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1240/ap-manifested-last-bfYes, just one baby step behind Maybe I think this way because I'm latina and while I'm a very modern girl in many ways, I guess I've been raised believing men should pursue a bit more at first. Of course I ask guys out and plan things for them but I like giving guys the space to show interest. That guy should have told you something! I'm glad you carried on without him. And It's great thet you can reflect upon those redflags, that way you're more aware. Take care! |
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 11, 2018 19:31:59 GMT
Yes, just one baby step behind Maybe I think this way because I'm latina and while I'm a very modern girl in many ways, I guess I've been raised believing men should pursue a bit more at first. Of course I ask guys out and plan things for them but I like giving guys the space to show interest. That guy should have told you something! I'm glad you carried on without him. And It's great thet you can reflect upon those redflags, that way you're more aware. Take care! Thanks! I don't know if "carried on" is the right term. If I am honest, I want him back with every fiber of my being. Maybe I feel like a baby whose parent died. I don't really know how to stop grieving a lost love until I meet someone new who I like even more. I don't know if that's how most people get over people or is just an AP thing? The last time I was about 75% as excited about someone as I was about my recent ex, it took me years to fully recover and no longer feel anything about him or what he does or who he dates. |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 13, 2018 8:24:35 GMT
Yes, just one baby step behind Maybe I think this way because I'm latina and while I'm a very modern girl in many ways, I guess I've been raised believing men should pursue a bit more at first. Of course I ask guys out and plan things for them but I like giving guys the space to show interest. That guy should have told you something! I'm glad you carried on without him. And It's great thet you can reflect upon those redflags, that way you're more aware. Take care! Thanks! I don't know if "carried on" is the right term. If I am honest, I want him back with every fiber of my being. Maybe I feel like a baby whose parent died. I don't really know how to stop grieving a lost love until I meet someone new who I like even more. I don't know if that's how most people get over people or is just an AP thing? The last time I was about 75% as excited about someone as I was about my recent ex, it took me years to fully recover and no longer feel anything about him or what he does or who he dates. Are you talking about your FA partner? I guess we all grieve different, some people need to get over their ex before dating again, others do 'rebounds' and then get over their ex. How much time has passed since this guy disappeared from your life? Personally, I can miss terribly someone who dumped me but after a couple of months with no contact… I guess I 'get over' them in a way that I don't want to get back together, even if I still get sad/angry if I think about them. My default break-up mode is me going out almost every day with my friends, painting and running… so it helps centering myself in people and activities I love. Meeting somebody new helps as well, but more in the 'I have hope for love again'. But I need some months to grieve the relationship. If I still keep contact with them is much more difficult (once it took me almost a year to get over someone because we kept being in touch 'as friends'). If I am the one who leaves I get over an ex pretty soon (but I guess is normal). |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 13, 2018 10:02:28 GMT
Yes, just one baby step behind Maybe I think this way because I'm latina and while I'm a very modern girl in many ways, I guess I've been raised believing men should pursue a bit more at first. Of course I ask guys out and plan things for them but I like giving guys the space to show interest. That guy should have told you something! I'm glad you carried on without him. And It's great thet you can reflect upon those redflags, that way you're more aware. Take care! Thanks! I don't know if "carried on" is the right term. If I am honest, I want him back with every fiber of my being. Maybe I feel like a baby whose parent died. I don't really know how to stop grieving a lost love until I meet someone new who I like even more. I don't know if that's how most people get over people or is just an AP thing? The last time I was about 75% as excited about someone as I was about my recent ex, it took me years to fully recover and no longer feel anything about him or what he does or who he dates. I understand...I don't think it is just an AP thing...however....as you have noted above, you have a "pattern" of profoundly missing the guy you dated until you find someone new. I think oftentimes...the closer a partner mirrors our caregiver wounds..the more profound the loss is felt. The thing is...on one level, you do miss him...but that "missing as if a parent died" is not tied to him...it is a deeper longing that feels like it belongs to him...but it doesn't. This is where the work lies..in separating out the deeper longing and sitting with and addressing that...whether with a therapist or a good friend or simply through your time here. In the meantime...you are in good company since there are several of us here that are trying to work through our attachment pain and move more towards secure. |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 14, 2018 10:33:57 GMT
Hey happyidiot, maybe this is relevant for this talk: www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/fashion/08love.html. It's a very simple, funny piece but I think it approaches well how to become more 'secure' while dating. Don't be afraid to take the wheel of your dating life! A secure guy will appreciate it. |
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