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Post by happyidiot on Sept 4, 2018 6:33:21 GMT
andy I don't know, just that Jeb says one key difference between FA and DA is that FA comes with "episodic low self-esteem" whereas DA comes with "high self-esteem" or positive view of the self. A DA person is more likely to have high self-regard but lower regard for most others, whereas FA is more likely to have low or mixed self-regard and negative or mixed views of most others. I'm not really sure how people define these terms. To me, lacking confidence and clarity on your romantic feelings indicates a lack of self-trust and self-knowledge, so I don't quite understand the distinction. I don't think your relationship sounds that unhealthy or insecure! What worries you about the idea that your partner isn't fully happy with things?
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 4, 2018 15:26:49 GMT
andy I don't know, just that Jeb says one key difference between FA and DA is that FA comes with "episodic low self-esteem" whereas DA comes with "high self-esteem" or positive view of the self. A DA person is more likely to have high self-regard but lower regard for most others, whereas FA is more likely to have low or mixed self-regard and negative or mixed views of most others. I'm not really sure how people define these terms. To me, lacking confidence and clarity on your romantic feelings indicates a lack of self-trust and self-knowledge, so I don't quite understand the distinction. I don't think your relationship sounds that unhealthy or insecure! What worries you about the idea that your partner isn't fully happy with things? Yes, you got me. Wasn't trying to make a distinction between self-esteem and self-knowledge/self-trust but my wording might have been a little confusing. I guess I just think it doesn't seem secure for each partner in a relationship to be feeling a bit dissatisfied. Like he would like us to be closer ideally but is willing to compromise (AP?), and I would like things to stay as they are but to find another complementary relationship (little bit of a distancing move because I'm not solely present and focusing on how much I appreciate my partner... though I do voice my appreciation often... but I'm also looking outside the relationship a lot, you know?). We have put some mechanisms in place to make things more comfortable, and I guess it is secure that we discuss it and act on the discussions to make things feel better for everyone. Like it's mostly my job now to set up plans, and we make sure all plans have times attached, as it used to feel hurtful to him before that he would always be the one to text me day-of to confirm what time we were actually meeting. And I try to propose more realistic times so that I'm not saying "running late, need another hour," which is common for me. He started dating someone else recently so it will be interesting to see whether that takes off and shifts the dynamic between us. I think it could be helpful. The problem is, being poly is easier said than done, even in an urban area, in terms of actually finding partners. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 10, 2018 4:17:45 GMT
andy Being willing to compromise isn't indicative of an insecure attachment, I don't think that makes your partner AP. I think it is secure to accept a relationship for what it is instead of expecting it to be perfect. I think it would be insecure if you and/or your partner were not meeting each others needs in ways that could actually be met by a different partner and it was distressing you but you were just sucking it up wishing and hoping for it to change. How is it going with your partner dating someone else?
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 10, 2018 4:45:21 GMT
Yeah, you're right, happyidiot, compromise without compromising oneself is healthy and necessary to make a relationship work. At times I've felt he might be compromising too much to be fully true to himself, but that's not my call to make. Overall our relationship has a super comfy, trusting, relaxed, affectionate vibe and we're very consistent communicators with each other... prompt responses, each available to talk the other in times of upset and stress, etc. There's a reason I score at the high end of secure when I take the attachment tests with him in mind, even though I was distinctly AP in another recent-ish dating situation. In answer to your question, it doesn't seem like his new dating situation is really taking off, which is what always seems to happen for us both. Shrug! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 14:10:45 GMT
Has anyone felt confused about whether attachment dynamics played a role in their feelings or lack of feelings for someone? I've asked myself this question a lot. Although it was my AP tendencies and participation in an AP/DA dynamic that brought me to the boards, I've been in several relationships where I was the partner wanting less time together, more independence, and so on, and I could tell that the other person wanted to be closer. I've often been confused about whether I felt that way because I just didn't feel strongly romantically attracted to that person (even though I really liked them!), end of story, or whether there was a dismissive undercurrent in my lukewarm feelings. I know I've said before that I have always landed in the secure to AP zone, but I actually have a sliver of doubt about this. I tend to think that my feelings of disengagement in those relationships were not attachment-driven because I didn't feel a lot of conflict or anxiety. I can't imagine breaking it off suddenly with one of those people because the decision just wouldn't have much urgency behind it... I could take my time, think it over, weigh various options, etc. I can't relate to feeling intensely triggered by closeness with another person in same way DAs describe, even if I feel smothered sometimes if somebody I'm not sure about seems to be coming on strong. Maybe I'm just not as clear as most people are about who I'm into or not into. Usually it feels confusing to me! Sometimes I worry that I only ever get the clear feeling if some dysfunctional unattainability dynamic kicks in. Maybe I'm just a big overthinker.... When I was younger and not aware of my attachment issues, I was never confused. I either like the person or I didn't and had no questions about it. It was only over time that I saw my pattern and how is it possible that I didn't like anyone in the end? How is it normal to "break up" with every single person I date. Now that I am aware of my issues, it's much harder. I question it all the time. What's real and what is a figment of my attachment imagination? It's so difficult, so I feel you on this 100%. |
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Post by cris88 on Sept 22, 2018 8:51:04 GMT
I don't know for sure. I now can confirm I'm fearful avoidant who steers to AP in relationships. With that in mind I can tell that:
I haven't been in a relationship for a long time. I met someone who was a friend of a friend and they insisted for a date, I did and immediately felt the need to talk myself into not liking him, he wasn't my type physically and too shy (I'm shy, imagine that) Buuut...I decided against it, because I wanted to do something different so I decided I would give it a try. I talked myself into it, I told myself how nice he was, he was my friend's friend! I could trust him, right? how he had good physical traits or things I could ignore, I basically brainwashed myself into giving him a chance, tried being easy-going, opening up, being a good sport, feeling confident because he was pursuing without pushing too hard and after all we had things in common, he wasn't that bad after all, once I opened up I was attracted and receptive... I was happy! Then he started being dismissive without fully pushing me away, I started giving time outs, it's OKs, let's try being friends first (With the adult spice) and all that lovely yellow path that takes you right to the AP wizard of Oz.
So I think attraction is there always, but what is attraction to you? Is it a healthy attraction in which both people are equally investing kind of relationship?
Is it a 'you are rejecting me in a familiar way, I'll put you on a pedestal and always imagine what it would be like to be with you if you just saw me and chose me...yeah I know you don't care about me but when you give me hope I feel so special' kind of attraction?
Or a 'you're a familiar pain, come here...everything is lovely..why are you expecting all that from me? I'm not ready to give and care so much, why are you feeling hurt? It shouldn't be this hard, you're not right, you're not it. you hurt me and I feel unloved when you only care about your feelings and throw them at me, bit you're so nice to me'?
I don't know what it's like to be truly dismissive in a relationship. I went out in boyfriend / girlfriend plan when I wasn't sure just once. That's because I was a people pleaser and I ended up hurting this guy very much. I vowed to never ever date someone if I didn't feel I would be open to fully try. I was really terrible and it didn't last for more than a month but I never was intimate or loving, never made promises. So I wasn't pushing and pulling. I wasn't interested at all. No attraction, nothing. So I don't know if Avoidants can get into dating and being in a kind of relationship (without the label) if they don't feel something too. I doubt it. I guess they back up when things start demanding more and more commitment or expectations.
It doesn't mean you're not great. It just means you're with the wrong person and you have a wrong perspective of yourself, or maybe you're afraid of commitment too and when they turn around and give you their all you won't know what to do.
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 24, 2018 23:18:21 GMT
LOL at "all that lovely yellow path that takes you right to the AP wizard of Oz."
Also you really totally summed up the AP mindset in two sentences :-o !!!
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Post by cris88 on Sept 28, 2018 2:01:17 GMT
LOL at "all that lovely yellow path that takes you right to the AP wizard of Oz." Also you really totally summed up the AP mindset in two sentences :-o !!! Thank you, it does feel like it, right? I've been thinking and in the end it is lack of attraction. They don't want us in the same way we want to be wanted. It's not because they're scared by how much they love us. We're not what they're looking for and that's it. Isn't it? I think DAs always fall for the impossible (unavailable partners) and we do the same, we're driven by an illusion of what could be. A healthy relationship means work. To grow, to learn, to accept. To do that you need two people wanting to be together and once you find that someone you won't feel as conflicted by their feelings. I think as what I've read in this threads, they're not good at confrontation so they keep it light, uncommitted to avoid hurting and driving people away but it's not because they want to be with you. I wonder what are the steps to get a healthy love life. Maybe a love life is not the answer to be happy. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 28, 2018 4:39:03 GMT
I respectfully disagree with this, and stand by the earlier thread posts that it's more complicated and connected to the nervous system etc.
I once dated a DA guy briefly. I don't know if he knew about attachment theory but he was very self aware about his patterns. He was not a nice person. He told me about some really terrible things he'd done to his partners and said he didn't want to further escalate things between us at that point because he'd inevitably do them to me and didn't want to (this had more to do with our social situation than altruism, though maybe he did care a bit about me since he hadn't deactivated yet). I was shocked at the things he'd done and asked why he'd done them if he knew they were awful and why he couldn't just not do them if he cared for his partner? He just shrugged it off, that was who he was. It didn't seem to matter who the partner was or how much he liked them, he said his patterns always repeated and he had accepted that.
My experiences with FA have been it is also about pattern repetition, though the pattern may look different depending on the attachment style of the partner (FA-DA pattern dynamic is different than FA-AP). It was going to happen the same way until the insecurely attached partner (or both, if both were insecure) accepted responsibility, did some self work, healed somewhat.
And I was AP for decades, it's not like I didn't get stuck in patterns, too. Mine just involved NOT losing attraction, which may or may not have even had to do with my partners since we were fantasy bonding anyway!
Losing attraction the way it's being asked about and positioned in some of these comments is in a blaming way, like it will stop with the right partner. One partner has turned off the other, they are now wrong for each other, it's not what someone wants? Maybe, maybe not. I think of attachment styles as defense mechanisms that developed in children, but now are out of context once adulthood is reached. So I see it as more likely that people with these extra strong defense mechanisms are going to cling to them and repeat until THEY decide to change. It's more about timing than the partner. It's not even a loss of attraction necessarily, but it's more easily interpreted that way when the person doesn't understand what they're feeling or why because it's so complicated, and they aren't ready to take responsibility for their part in it yet.
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hannah
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Post by hannah on Sept 29, 2018 17:59:52 GMT
I agree with alexandra. Some months ago I deactivated from a guy I had a really big crush at the beginning. It took me about two months to go from the big crush to the repulsion feeling, I don't think that the loss of attraction occurs this fast and I don't think it's replaced by repulsion. I think it's really not related to the person, it's something that they activate in our mind and that become a sort of autonomous thing, if this make any sense. About this guy for example, I could barely answer when he write me and only to imagine to go on a date with him made me feel overwhelmed, it was a physical sensation of oppression and anxiety. Knowing a bit of attachment styles at that moment, I tried to fight this feeling and keep seeing him. When I was with him it was nice most of the time and I found he was still attractive, the negative sensation was there most when I was alone with my thoughts. If it was the only problem, I was ready to try a relationship with him, even if when I'm at this state it feels like something I can't overcome (now I know it's attachment). But there was some dealbreakers (well, I still ask myself if I'm just rationalizing my fear but I don't think so this time).
I'm thinking that I feel the same about my parents, I mean, I'm always anxious and feel overwhelmed when I say myself I need to call/see them so I procrastinate to the max until I reach out and we have a really great time. So I think it's all about projections, fears and wounds from the past, it's not related to the concret person.
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raco
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Post by raco on Oct 5, 2018 1:10:32 GMT
i read this and initially chose not to comment, but i would be willing to say that this is a severe over simplification of a very complex issue, which involves alterations in the attachment system of the nervous system. it's been pretty well researched. the question is ignorant in light of the deep research that's been done and published, and i don't care to get into the discussion on this level. I'm impacted by dismissive attachment issues with someone i care about very much, and have endured a lifetime of deep isolation that had nothing to do with attraction or not, to a potential mate. I wouldn't bother explaining it to someone who hasn't bothered to educate themselves before advancing such a theory. It would be a poor use of my time. Enjoy the boards!  How haughty, condescending, and pretentious. Now we can't ask a question if we have not studied "deep research"? Do we need to have a PhD in psychology to participate here, or what? And two other members liked the post, that's rather worrying. No wonder the poor guy never posted another message, if his first experience with the forum was this. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 5, 2018 2:38:17 GMT
i read this and initially chose not to comment, but i would be willing to say that this is a severe over simplification of a very complex issue, which involves alterations in the attachment system of the nervous system. it's been pretty well researched. the question is ignorant in light of the deep research that's been done and published, and i don't care to get into the discussion on this level. I'm impacted by dismissive attachment issues with someone i care about very much, and have endured a lifetime of deep isolation that had nothing to do with attraction or not, to a potential mate. I wouldn't bother explaining it to someone who hasn't bothered to educate themselves before advancing such a theory. It would be a poor use of my time. Enjoy the boards! How haughty, condescending, and pretentious. Now we can't ask a question if we have not studied "deep research"? Do we need to have a PhD in psychology to participate here, or what? And two other members liked the post, that's rather worrying. No wonder the poor guy never posted another message, if his first experience with the forum was this. Hey Raco...obviously this touched a nerve for you...I did not read Juniper's post from the same perspective...and yes, I am one of the two members that liked it. It is ok...we don't all have to agree here. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 13:31:39 GMT
i read this and initially chose not to comment, but i would be willing to say that this is a severe over simplification of a very complex issue, which involves alterations in the attachment system of the nervous system. it's been pretty well researched. the question is ignorant in light of the deep research that's been done and published, and i don't care to get into the discussion on this level. I'm impacted by dismissive attachment issues with someone i care about very much, and have endured a lifetime of deep isolation that had nothing to do with attraction or not, to a potential mate. I wouldn't bother explaining it to someone who hasn't bothered to educate themselves before advancing such a theory. It would be a poor use of my time. Enjoy the boards! How haughty, condescending, and pretentious. Now we can't ask a question if we have not studied "deep research"? Do we need to have a PhD in psychology to participate here, or what? And two other members liked the post, that's rather worrying. No wonder the poor guy never posted another message, if his first experience with the forum was this. it's certainly a waste of my time to debate the topic of this post when support for implications much greater than "attraction" exist and is readily available, even without a PhD 🙄 a quick internet search or some reading on this forum, or better yet, the main site for which this forum exists, will do. yes, we can all disagree. if one post with two likes is enough to deter a poster from posting again , some understanding that internet forums are bound to be challenging without necesarily being threatening may be in order. i responded because my name was mentioned as someone who might contribute, and that's my contribution.  |
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