|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 13, 2018 2:27:08 GMT
kristyrose, what I've found to be the problem for me in the similar situation is that the reason my ex FA and I were able to continue on so so soooooo slowly after we broke up was because we do both care about each other enormously, but I'm just at a point in my life where I've been willing to do the work, confront my issues, grow out of insecure attachment, be a healthier person emotionally so I can be the best possible partner for him (or anyone), and he's not there.
I don't think your situation is about your ex / friend+ not caring enough about you, not at all. I think his limitations are really about his comfort with his own fear and avoidant tendencies, so he doesn't feel compelled to confront his own issues. I don't even think it's, he'd "intentionally" take what he can get from you even if he knows you want more... I think it's avoiding the thought you want more because he doesn't want to hurt you but he's just so out of touch with himself -- so how can he be in touch with others?
We're having this whole other discussion in the DA thread about "the talk", and we've been sharing examples with the DAs about how FAs respond to discussions about emotional needs (poof! they panic and probably run away for a while!). My hypothesis about it is they shut down because they can't deal with it. It's nervous system overload, with one possible reason that if they have to face what's actually going on then they become accountable and responsible for it (assuming they are decent people even if attachment injured... at least the FAs I know aren't looking to hurt anyone on purpose). That's going to pop their fantasy version in which going on indefinitely in their comfort zone is doable, and that their partner is "okay" with it.
I've used the example of Don Quixote in personal conversations about the topic, clinging to his fantastical yet positive outlook of the world, and it mentally crushing him to be shown the truth.
Hopefully I'm not projecting my experiences too much on yours, since I've read a lot of what you've written in the past and am trying to speak to the whole dynamic. In my case, I can't be satisfied with one foot in one foot out because I really want to still be able to have kids and that forces me to make a choice, as I don't have much time. I've also seen other FAs have kids accidentally, and stay "committed" but unmarried to the partner and still practicing deactivation to stay at a distance, and it just goes on indefinitely. That's not what I want for a family life.
That's why I at least encourage you to be sure you can be happy with how things are and it isn't stunting your own healing towards earned secure to be in friends+ limbo. You've mentioned you have some chronic physical issues, and in that case I can totally see why you might prioritize someone who makes you feel better and helps you in that way when you need it (and of course, I know it's about far more than that for you, just as an example of how situations may work differently for different people). But it's just going to be very difficult for things to change significantly unless he's willing to see the value in self-growth, and it's very hard to predict if that will ever happen.
I hope that's not harsh. I really want to be comforting that it's not about you and it's not about he doesn't care enough, because for someone with AP tendencies I know that's an easy trap to fall into. But I also want to be realistic about being content with the now is in part accepting that things may never change and keeping you honest with yourself about your needs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 2:52:54 GMT
my take is that in any insecure pairing, it is not the ambivalence or flakiness of the partner that is the issue-
it is the ambivalence and indecisiveness of the Self.
this is a shadow dance.
neither partner here is committed to the relationship, they both have a foot out, all the time. that's not a critical statement; it's just an observation.
the stay/go is mirrored between them. it's a distraction:
it's all ambiguous, from one end to the other , inside and out. and both are ok with that, but not.
so, accepting the reality of that , there is a way to choose to stay and grow, if leaving is unlikely.
i can't predict the eventual outcome. but it seems the only real snag here is conceptual. how it's defined. if you look at the pure living of it, it's pretty consistent, not perfect, not horrible.
so, all i am saying is, maybe it's ok to just let it be. let it challenge both parties to become more authentic. over time. stop overthinking. just live it and see what's really what. it can be useful for that. the stay/go dilemma is just a disease in my mind. if you are going to be in it: be the best you can be. just do it. if you are growing along, honoring your authentic self and discover it doesn't work, you will know. you won't have to agonize. straddling the fence means you are wasting time and not focusing on how to grow in the actual doing. that's just my take, maybe it's weird but i have had a lot of growth in accidental ways.
|
|
|
|
Post by epicgum on Sept 13, 2018 4:58:37 GMT
kristyrose, what I've found to be the problem for me in the similar situation is that the reason my ex FA and I were able to continue on so so soooooo slowly after we broke up was because we do both care about each other enormously, but I'm just at a point in my life where I've been willing to do the work, confront my issues, grow out of insecure attachment, be a healthier person emotionally so I can be the best possible partner for him (or anyone), and he's not there.
I don't think your situation is about your ex / friend+ not caring enough about you, not at all. I think his limitations are really about his comfort with his own fear and avoidant tendencies, so he doesn't feel compelled to confront his own issues. I don't even think it's, he'd "intentionally" take what he can get from you even if he knows you want more... I think it's avoiding the thought you want more because he doesn't want to hurt you but he's just so out of touch with himself -- so how can he be in touch with others?
We're having this whole other discussion in the DA thread about "the talk", and we've been sharing examples with the DAs about how FAs respond to discussions about emotional needs (poof! they panic and probably run away for a while!). My hypothesis about it is they shut down because they can't deal with it. It's nervous system overload, with one possible reason that if they have to face what's actually going on then they become accountable and responsible for it (assuming they are decent people even if attachment injured... at least the FAs I know aren't looking to hurt anyone on purpose). That's going to pop their fantasy version in which going on indefinitely in their comfort zone is doable, and that their partner is "okay" with it.
I've used the example of Don Quixote in personal conversations about the topic, clinging to his fantastical yet positive outlook of the world, and it mentally crushing him to be shown the truth.
Hopefully I'm not projecting my experiences too much on yours, since I've read a lot of what you've written in the past and am trying to speak to the whole dynamic. In my case, I can't be satisfied with one foot in one foot out because I really want to still be able to have kids and that forces me to make a choice, as I don't have much time. I've also seen other FAs have kids accidentally, and stay "committed" but unmarried to the partner and still practicing deactivation to stay at a distance, and it just goes on indefinitely. That's not what I want for a family life.
That's why I at least encourage you to be sure you can be happy with how things are and it isn't stunting your own healing towards earned secure to be in friends+ limbo. You've mentioned you have some chronic physical issues, and in that case I can totally see why you might prioritize someone who makes you feel better and helps you in that way when you need it (and of course, I know it's about far more than that for you, just as an example of how situations may work differently for different people). But it's just going to be very difficult for things to change significantly unless he's willing to see the value in self-growth, and it's very hard to predict if that will ever happen.
I hope that's not harsh. I really want to be comforting that it's not about you and it's not about he doesn't care enough, because for someone with AP tendencies I know that's an easy trap to fall into. But I also want to be realistic about being content with the now is in part accepting that things may never change and keeping you honest with yourself about your needs.
I can TOTALLY identify with the FA living in their own positive world where everything is going great. Sometimes my partner indicated that she was happy with the way things were, sometimes she indicated that she wanted more...I embraced the reality that she was happy and resisted examining any evidence to the contrary. But...I also knew that on some level something was kind of "wrong" with me (from past relationships and from a fight early in the relationship), and I wouldn't have been totally unreceptive to this kind of knowledge/growth/change. |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Sept 13, 2018 7:26:27 GMT
I've used the example of Don Quixote in personal conversations about the topic, clinging to his fantastical yet positive outlook of the world, and it mentally crushing him to be shown the truth. I've been thinking about Don Quixote in relation to FA too! Like Quixote imagining windmills are giants, that could symbolize someone coming from an FA place imagining something is a much worse situation or characteristic than it is. And how Quixote idealizes his love interest and puts her on a pedestal, because his love for her is unrequited it is a safe fantasy for an FA, like the idea of the one or the phantom ex. Does that make sense? (disclaimer, I don't have the best memory of the book) |
|
|
|
Post by epicgum on Sept 13, 2018 15:21:17 GMT
I've used the example of Don Quixote in personal conversations about the topic, clinging to his fantastical yet positive outlook of the world, and it mentally crushing him to be shown the truth. I've been thinking about Don Quixote in relation to FA too! Like Quixote imagining windmills are giants, that could symbolize someone coming from an FA place imagining something is a much worse situation or characteristic than it is. And how Quixote idealizes his love interest and puts her on a pedestal, because his love for her is unrequited it is a safe fantasy for an FA, like the idea of the one or the phantom ex. Does that make sense? (disclaimer, I don't have the best memory of the book) Never read the book, but that resonates with me completely. |
|
|
|
Post by kristyrose on Sept 14, 2018 17:53:51 GMT
kristyrose , what I've found to be the problem for me in the similar situation is that the reason my ex FA and I were able to continue on so so soooooo slowly after we broke up was because we do both care about each other enormously, but I'm just at a point in my life where I've been willing to do the work, confront my issues, grow out of insecure attachment, be a healthier person emotionally so I can be the best possible partner for him (or anyone), and he's not there.
I don't think your situation is about your ex / friend+ not caring enough about you, not at all. I think his limitations are really about his comfort with his own fear and avoidant tendencies, so he doesn't feel compelled to confront his own issues. I don't even think it's, he'd "intentionally" take what he can get from you even if he knows you want more... I think it's avoiding the thought you want more because he doesn't want to hurt you but he's just so out of touch with himself -- so how can he be in touch with others?
We're having this whole other discussion in the DA thread about "the talk", and we've been sharing examples with the DAs about how FAs respond to discussions about emotional needs (poof! they panic and probably run away for a while!). My hypothesis about it is they shut down because they can't deal with it. It's nervous system overload, with one possible reason that if they have to face what's actually going on then they become accountable and responsible for it (assuming they are decent people even if attachment injured... at least the FAs I know aren't looking to hurt anyone on purpose). That's going to pop their fantasy version in which going on indefinitely in their comfort zone is doable, and that their partner is "okay" with it.
I've used the example of Don Quixote in personal conversations about the topic, clinging to his fantastical yet positive outlook of the world, and it mentally crushing him to be shown the truth.
Hopefully I'm not projecting my experiences too much on yours, since I've read a lot of what you've written in the past and am trying to speak to the whole dynamic. In my case, I can't be satisfied with one foot in one foot out because I really want to still be able to have kids and that forces me to make a choice, as I don't have much time. I've also seen other FAs have kids accidentally, and stay "committed" but unmarried to the partner and still practicing deactivation to stay at a distance, and it just goes on indefinitely. That's not what I want for a family life.
That's why I at least encourage you to be sure you can be happy with how things are and it isn't stunting your own healing towards earned secure to be in friends+ limbo. You've mentioned you have some chronic physical issues, and in that case I can totally see why you might prioritize someone who makes you feel better and helps you in that way when you need it (and of course, I know it's about far more than that for you, just as an example of how situations may work differently for different people). But it's just going to be very difficult for things to change significantly unless he's willing to see the value in self-growth, and it's very hard to predict if that will ever happen.
I hope that's not harsh. I really want to be comforting that it's not about you and it's not about he doesn't care enough, because for someone with AP tendencies I know that's an easy trap to fall into. But I also want to be realistic about being content with the now is in part accepting that things may never change and keeping you honest with yourself about your needs.
Hi Alexandra, Definitely not harsh at all. I really appreciate your post so much because it is a reminder that it's not about my inadequacies which is the first place I tend to start. I, like you, am nearing an age where having kids is becoming more of a decision I should serious consider and my ex is definitely not a person that has any interest in that. I'm actually not sure I even do, but I do know that eventually I want a close partner again. I was married once and have been in long term relationships where we live together and mesh our lives. My ex tried to do that with me, but it was so hard for him to even meet my family. So I do often think of that and worry about time. I also think so much about how I haven't been alone much in my life and these past 2 years I've lived alone and learned how to understand and manage my attachment style. To juniper point, I actually have learned more about myself in this relationship than any other in my life. Somehow my ex has helped me fully understand how I show up in my relationships and it's not pretty. Being in therapy for 7 years I somehow just tapped into the abuse I've been subjected to and how it has shaped me in the past 3 years. The newfound growth and sense of responsibility has been born from this relationship in a way. So that has been a positive. I've learned how to reparent myself and how to love someone in a way that is more pure and less out of need like before. I can actually see how my ex and I keep showing up for each other and being together simply because we want to, not because we have to. There is not obligation so in some ways, it makes the time together more honest and even precious. Letting go of my tendencies to seek security out of labels and knowing its "forever" has at times felt like a tremendous relief. A scary one too, but then a strange freedom if that makes any sense. I suppose letting go entirely and just continuing to show up as my best self is a gift I can give us both. I think you and juniper are both right in the approach and I cannot tell you how much it helps to get this outside perspective. |
|
