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Post by gaynxious on May 18, 2017 17:03:34 GMT
Hello,
Many here spend a great deal of time talking about the dynamic between anxious and avoidant or secure and avoidant and posit that anxious secure is a much healthier relationship for anxious people. But I've read very little about anxious-anxious relationships other than somewhere it says usually the less anxious one becomes avoidant and Jeb's writings say this combination is often dramatic and messy and rarely works out.
Since my avoidant ex of 10 years left me I have attracted a lot of anxious men. I suspect that I may seem avoidant to them as I am not terribly emotive and could be called aloof in some ways when I am unfamiliar with someone. I typically score somewhere between mildly and moderately anxious on tests and extremely low in avoidance when they are treated as two separate dimensions.
My experience thus far has been that I enjoy how easy it is to be intimate with them and that they are often very responsive to my needs, communications, and try to be understanding when I explain that I am still recovering from my break up and need some time.
However, I do find myself at times being more avoidant with them, not wanting to return or initiate texts, needing to take a break from physical intimacy, wanting to make time for separateness with my friends.
Does anyone have any insight into the challenges and pitfalls of these relationships?
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 20, 2017 16:47:36 GMT
I'm anxious and I've never been in a romantic relationship with another anxious, but I do have a friend who is far more needy and clingy than I am. We fight a lot. I feel totally suffocated and I've considered a lot of times to break all contact and never look back. I'm in no way capable of giving her what she needs, so I can only imagine what it would be like to be in a relationship with another anxious. I do think anxious people always tend to shift to avoidant when someone is more anxious than they are. I think it will never be as balanced as anxious-secure.
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Post by gaynxious on Sept 21, 2017 16:53:16 GMT
I'm anxious and I've never been in a romantic relationship with another anxious, but I do have a friend who is far more needy and clingy than I am. We fight a lot. I feel totally suffocated and I've considered a lot of times to break all contact and never look back. I'm in no way capable of giving her what she needs, so I can only imagine what it would be like to be in a relationship with another anxious. I do think anxious people always tend to shift to avoidant when someone is more anxious than they are. I think it will never be as balanced as anxious-secure. Thanks for your insight. I'm currently seeing another anxious man and it's very unsettling to see myself employing some of the avoidant techniques my ex would use with me. What's even more unsettling is that I know they are hurtful and I don't mean to be employing them. We are only a few months in and already fights spiral out of control. There is a huge amount of forgive and make up which is nice to know that feelings can be vented and not end the relationship but there is no actual conflict resolution. No progress is made because everything becomes very personal so quickly. I find myself looking for resources for anxious anxious couples but there don't appear to be many. Probably because anxious anxious couples aren't nearly as common as anxious-avoidant couples. |
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 22, 2017 17:19:55 GMT
Hi Gayanxious. I think those of us with Attachment issues can be situationally flexible with how they play out, although I think we each have a "default" setting, so to speak.
You self-report as primarily Anxious, and sure enough your Avoidant Ex triggered high Anxiousness in you. But your new more-Anxious partner is triggering your Avoidance. It's still Attachment trauma underneath it all.
I was the same: I'm generally Avoidant and historically run from Anxious people, but then met a much more Avoidant partner who flipped some internal switch and made my Anxious. I'm now back to dating and am back to my "default" method of coping my Attachment trauma, which is to drift into Avoidant behaviour, and am running from the Anxious folk as usual.
So I think it's a function of Avoidant-Avoidant or Anxious/Anxious pairings, that these don't last long independently, unless one of the partners drifts into the corollary / complementary role of Avoidant or Anxious, as the case may be. (And then, as we all know, they still don't last in most cases).
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Post by gaynxious on Sept 22, 2017 19:22:08 GMT
I can see why avoidant avoidant pairings might necessitate someone becoming anxious to last because as our host puts it, if no one is doing any positive messaging there is no external signs the relationship is going anywhere and therefore no internal signaling to invest in the relationship.
With anxious anxious pairings I get why they get serious so quick, my anxious and I barely were separated one week, because I worked from home and we had a long holiday weekend we literally were only apart for a few hours. It was great as an anxious to have someone want to spend that much time with me and he communicated similarly. Why do you think that it is necessary for one to switch to avoidant in order for things to last? I'm just curious if it's related to some objective reason it's not healthy for two people to spend all their free time together or if it's because with all the intimacy there is no real discussion on issues and so the relationship never deepens because it's entirely based on feelings, or something else?
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 22, 2017 19:50:12 GMT
Great question.
I wonder whether it has to do with the overriding consequence of Attachment injuries, which in Avoidants is fear of enmeshment/engulfment, and in the Anxious translates to a fear of abandonment. Both of these fears relate to the person's core sense of emotional safety and "Self" being in jeopardy.
Maybe somehow this is overstimulated for you in your current Anxious/Anxious pairing, you don't have to worry about being abandoned but somehow the enmeshment concern is triggered instead.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 3:53:10 GMT
After a 14 year marriage from the nether regions of hell to a DA, I as a recovering anxious male can confidently and definitely declare that even a marriage to another anxious would have been light-years more rewarding than marriage to a DA, and for this one reason: At least there would be such a thing as sex in the marriage.
My brutally hard-bought experience tells me: A DA female may and probably will engage in all kinds of (non-intimate) sex to get a guy hooked up to the State with her, but once she takes a bite of that wedding cake, say goodnight to any kind of regular sex, you dumb chump.
Take it from a recovering chump. Don't be me. Don't ever be me. If you're an anxious guy with a normal sex drive, you're better off even with a female who's anxious like you. Force yourself to be attracted to her initially (like I didn't to a few anxious females I could have had) and your sex drive will thank you later. Marry the DA who initially love-bombed you and also subconsciously drew you in by really being checked-out psychologically, and your starving sex drive will curse you till the day you die. The Ice Queen antics of the DA will wither and kill you attritionally.
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Post by gaynxious on Oct 5, 2017 16:01:09 GMT
After a 14 year marriage from the nether regions of hell to a DA, I as a recovering anxious male can confidently and definitely declare that even a marriage to another anxious would have been light-years more rewarding than marriage to a DA, and for this one reason: At least there would be such a thing as sex in the marriage. My brutally hard-bought experience tells me: A DA female may and probably will engage in all kinds of (non-intimate) sex to get a guy hooked up to the State with her, but once she takes a bite of that wedding cake, say goodnight to any kind of regular sex, you dumb chump. Take it from a recovering chump. Don't be me. Don't ever be me. If you're an anxious guy with a normal sex drive, you're better off even with a female who's anxious like you. Force yourself to be attracted to her initially (like I didn't to a few anxious females I could have had) and your sex drive will thank you later. Marry the DA who initially love-bombed you and also subconsciously drew you in by really being checked-out psychologically, and your starving sex drive will curse you till the day you die. The Ice Queen antics of the DA will wither and kill you attritionally. While sex was an issue, thankfully when two men are involved sex does happen eventually. My DA ex was likely FA so his need to be validated prolly made him somewhat sexually subservient. We would have sex but it was often obvious he didn't enjoy it. The real fear when two men are involved is when the question of nonmonogamy comes up. The avoidant will jump at that option because casual sex is so much better for them. That's when the sexual aspect of the relationship really gets rocky. |
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Post by gaynxious on Aug 8, 2018 15:16:11 GMT
A little more insight I have gained from my quasipolyamorous situation with another anxious man. Little catch up, we decided that we weren’t a romantic fit, he wants kids, I don’t, and a few other things, but we continue to be more than friends. He has a boyfriend now that is likely secure, maybe slightly anxious. We have been kinda a thruple at times but now that the boyfriend lives here the dynamic has changed quite a bit and I find myself drifting away.
Anyways, in an anxious anxious relationship I have experienced that it is very important than one partner learn how to not engage. This sounds avoidant I know. But when two anxious people have conflict they seem to almost always be willing to escalate things. Emotions run so high that it is easy for simple misunderstandings to spiral out of control. So one of you has to learn to take a step back and calm down otherwise you get stuck in a cycle of fighting with no real resolution.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 15:35:05 GMT
this is a fascinating example of what can happen even when there isn't an avoidant to blame.
great insight!
insecure is insecure- may we all heal our own stuff! 🌸
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 16:08:12 GMT
Hi Gayanxious. I think those of us with Attachment issues can be situationally flexible with how they play out, although I think we each have a "default" setting, so to speak. You self-report as primarily Anxious, and sure enough your Avoidant Ex triggered high Anxiousness in you. But your new more-Anxious partner is triggering your Avoidance. It's still Attachment trauma underneath it all. I was the same: I'm generally Avoidant and historically run from Anxious people, but then met a much more Avoidant partner who flipped some internal switch and made my Anxious. I'm now back to dating and am back to my "default" method of coping my Attachment trauma, which is to drift into Avoidant behaviour, and am running from the Anxious folk as usual. So I think it's a function of Avoidant-Avoidant or Anxious/Anxious pairings, that these don't last long independently, unless one of the partners drifts into the corollary / complementary role of Avoidant or Anxious, as the case may be. (And then, as we all know, they still don't last in most cases). there is always the option of growing toward secure..... my avoidant/avoidant relationship was very rewarding because we chose to grow forward and fostered intimacy and growth with awareness and each taking care of our own side of the street. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 8, 2018 16:24:22 GMT
this is a fascinating example of what can happen even when there isn't an avoidant to blame. Genuine lol |
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Post by notalone on Aug 8, 2018 17:02:24 GMT
I think the primary point here is that our attachment styles can shift based on the relationship we're in. I think this is important to remember.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 17:46:26 GMT
actually, i am going to address specifically the anxious narrative.
i acknowledge that there is a very large percentage of first time anxious posters that blame their avoidant partner for the breakdown of their relationship.
What is fundamental to the anxious narrative is a feeling of lack.
The anxious mindset is fixated on not being able to obtain what is craved.
According to the literature , this mindset endures, even in the face of someone tryin to meet their needs.
Diane Poole Heller addresses this topic as do many other writers on the subject.
So, in anxious-anxious relating, with both partners presumably moving TOWARD connection, ultimately without awareness of the underlying narrative, one has to become avoidant in order to perpetuate the narrative; which in dysfunctional relating, is the true driving force.
Intimacy is not the goal- maintaining the narrative IS. Until awareness and change occurs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 17:57:33 GMT
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