raco
Junior Member
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Post by raco on Jan 17, 2019 16:59:07 GMT
stayhappy, that should not exist, for sure. But it does and it's often done unconsciously.
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 17, 2019 17:00:28 GMT
raco Any AP Ive come across shows instantly. I have never experienced acting secure then goes AP. My relationships have been with secures. Maybe Ive just come across more 'extreme' AP guys so its shows fast. Its like I can smell it. Im older and have been around 'been the block' too. haha. Now if my sniffer will work as well with avoidants in the future knowing what I know now! LOL. Mine acted secure then poof. Ive never had a secure pull a no contact for a week thing. If he did that I'll know he is not secure/playing some game. Frankly Id think hes is just not interested or now maybe avoidant. Secures in general dont really play that game, they dont need to, they are secure.(not to say it cant happen) With my secures I never had doubts about anything like when they contact, if they will contact, etc, etc. It just flows naturally. Real secures know that what some of those dating coaches say is crap. LOL That no contact for a week, is weak. Also in my experience I still dont have to 'test' with a secures, other incompatibilities will rule them out. Not to say ive never unconsciously tested in some way as some of its 'natural' but I dont test like that. I hear ya stayhappy !
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raco
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by raco on Jan 17, 2019 18:18:15 GMT
Secures in general dont really play that game, they dont need to, they are secure. A secure guy will rarely need to play games to seduce a bad-looking girl with a low self-esteem. But what if he wants to seduce the hot girl that every guy wants? Most of the time, his chances will be near zero. Even if he's secure. Sometimes the guy will give up, sometimes he will try and hope for a miracle, and sometimes he will play games to artificially increase his chances and beat the competition. But he usually will need much more than being secure. |
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 17, 2019 18:22:56 GMT
Secures in general dont really play that game, they dont need to, they are secure. A secure guy will rarely need to play games to seduce a bad-looking girl with a low self-esteem. But what if he wants to seduce the hot girl that every guy wants? Most of the time, his chances will be near zero. Even if he's secure. Sometimes the guy will give up, sometimes he will try and hope for a miracle, and sometimes he will play games to artificially increase his chances and beat the competition. But he usually will need much more than being secure. Secures guys don’t have the need to have the girl everybody wants just to feed his ego. Insecure people usually think secures are boring even when we are physical attreactive anyway so |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 17, 2019 20:08:25 GMT
Secures in general dont really play that game, they dont need to, they are secure. A secure guy will rarely need to play games to seduce a bad-looking girl with a low self-esteem. But what if he wants to seduce the hot girl that every guy wants? Most of the time, his chances will be near zero. Even if he's secure. Sometimes the guy will give up, sometimes he will try and hope for a miracle, and sometimes he will play games to artificially increase his chances and beat the competition. But he usually will need much more than being secure. A secure guy does not need to play games to get even the hot girl everyone wants. A secure guy wont care about the competition, he will be who he is and want to win her with his own real awesomness. If anything he will move on to another gal because he doesn't want to play any games or feel the need to play that game. Any game playing or being artificial is just not secure behavior, he goes that way he just not that secure and changing himself to get some gal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 20:37:53 GMT
A secure guy will rarely need to play games to seduce a bad-looking girl with a low self-esteem. But what if he wants to seduce the hot girl that every guy wants? Most of the time, his chances will be near zero. Even if he's secure. Sometimes the guy will give up, sometimes he will try and hope for a miracle, and sometimes he will play games to artificially increase his chances and beat the competition. But he usually will need much more than being secure. A secure guy does not need to play games to get even the hot girl everyone wants. A secure guy wont care about the competition, he will be who he is and want to win her with his own real awesomness. If anything he will move on to another gal because he doesn't want to play any games or feel the need to play that game. Any game playing or being artificial is just not secure behavior, he goes that way he just not that secure and changing himself to get some gal.
We can agree to disagree. And, he'll hang out on internet forums taking about how secure he is in relationships, especially his relationship with an insecure. I think. I think that's one of the secure behaviors we are aiming for. Right? Sorry, but this doesn't all make complete sense. I'm just saying. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 20:52:28 GMT
Secures in general dont really play that game, they dont need to, they are secure. A secure guy will rarely need to play games to seduce a bad-looking girl with a low self-esteem. But what if he wants to seduce the hot girl that every guy wants? Most of the time, his chances will be near zero. Even if he's secure. Sometimes the guy will give up, sometimes he will try and hope for a miracle, and sometimes he will play games to artificially increase his chances and beat the competition. But he usually will need much more than being secure. I would agree that there are probably mating strategies that have to do with evolutionary and biological mechanisms, that have nothing to do with secure/insecure but are driven by the intrinsic desire of a mammal to find a suitable mate. I am not huge on researching but there's probably some scientific basis for strategies, beyond attachment theory. To say secures act one way in pursuit of a mage and one way only based on secure attachment is kind of limited when considering the complexity of human behavior. |
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 17, 2019 22:29:16 GMT
A secure guy will rarely need to play games to seduce a bad-looking girl with a low self-esteem. But what if he wants to seduce the hot girl that every guy wants? Most of the time, his chances will be near zero. Even if he's secure. Sometimes the guy will give up, sometimes he will try and hope for a miracle, and sometimes he will play games to artificially increase his chances and beat the competition. But he usually will need much more than being secure. I would agree that there are probably mating strategies that have to do with evolutionary and biological mechanisms, that have nothing to do with secure/insecure but are driven by the intrinsic desire of a mammal to find a suitable mate. I am not huge on researching but there's probably some scientific basis for strategies, beyond attachment theory. To say secures act one way in pursuit of a mage and one way only based on secure attachment is kind of limited when considering the complexity of human behavior. I can’t talk so much about attraction from a biological/evolution perspective as I don’t know so much about it. But by experience I can see big differences while dealing with secure guys vs insecure guys. Physical attraction is a funny thing as to some guys I may look really good, to others something in the middle or to others I don’t look good at all. But as a pretty secure woman and pretty satisfied with how I look like I really don’t make any test to see if a guy is really is into to me. I don’t have so much experience with AP guys. I don’t think they want to continue dating me because they know where they have me, they don’t need to earn me and that’s is not so exciting. I have dated two avoidants, one probably DA the other FA. In the beginning it felt pretty much like dating a secure but in the moment they started to get feelings and get involved was the moment they started with distancing strategies. I understand I wasn’t a threat at the beginning... The secures Guys I had a relationship with or dated where pretty much like myself. They were not afraid of seeming needy, they were not clingy and they were not afraid of cloneseness either. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 23:23:18 GMT
I would agree that there are probably mating strategies that have to do with evolutionary and biological mechanisms, that have nothing to do with secure/insecure but are driven by the intrinsic desire of a mammal to find a suitable mate. I am not huge on researching but there's probably some scientific basis for strategies, beyond attachment theory. To say secures act one way in pursuit of a mage and one way only based on secure attachment is kind of limited when considering the complexity of human behavior. I can’t talk so much about attraction from a biological/evolution perspective as I don’t know so much about it. But by experience I can see big differences while dealing with secure guys vs insecure guys. Physical attraction is a funny thing as to some guys I may look really good, to others something in the middle or to others I don’t look good at all. But as a pretty secure woman and pretty satisfied with how I look like I really don’t make any test to see if a guy is really is into to me. I don’t have so much experience with AP guys. I don’t think they want to continue dating me because they know where they have me, they don’t need to earn me and that’s is not so exciting. I have dated two avoidants, one probably DA the other FA. In the beginning it felt pretty much like dating a secure but in the moment they started to get feelings and get involved was the moment they started with distancing strategies. I understand I wasn’t a threat at the beginning... The secures Guys I had a relationship with or dated where pretty much like myself. They were not afraid of seeming needy, they were not clingy and they were not afraid of cloneseness either. Yes i totally see what you are saying- I just think there are probably courtship behaviors in healthy, well adjusted, secure human males that are strategic from a biological and evolutionary standpoint, and not so much related to attachment issues. Those things may make competition a factor, without being tied to insecure attachment. I haven't researched all that but it makes sense to me, as we are mammals and there are many many behaviors driven by biology and evolution. Or so the scientists among us say. Makes sense to me! |
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 18, 2019 0:27:03 GMT
I'd say that someone who gives out shit tests more than average is likely to be a secure attractive girl. Shit tests are used to make sure that the person you're interested in is really what he/she seems to be. The more picky you are, the more likely you are to use shit tests. Because if you're not picky at all, then why go to such lengths to make sure that the person you're dating is really the right person for you? APs are probably the least picky of all (that's why they often stay with abusive partners even when it's obvious they should run away). So I'd be surprised if they used shit tests more than average. Example of a shit test: a girl is interested in a seemingly cool and secure guy. But she's used to date guys who pretend to be cool and secure to seduce her. So she tries to put the guy in an uncomfortable situation, in which it will be difficult for him to pretend he's secure if he's not. For example, if the guy expresses some political views, the girl could say "Oh my god, you really think this? I'm going home, no way I'll stay any longer with someone who thinks this way". In reality, she doesn't care what the guy thinks. She just wants to see if he will reply "Well, that's what I think. You can leave if you want" (secure guy) or "Wait, it's not what I meant, please come back, let me explain to you, please!" (insecure guy). An avoidant trying to prove to himself that nobody loves him is not shit testing, because he's not trying to make sure that he's found the right partner. Something you do to push people away is not a shit test. A shit test can be a defense mechanism, but a defense mechanism is not necessarily a shit test. APs are still picky in that they subconsciously prefer people who are a little bit unavailable. Despite what they say, deep down they don't actually want someone who does whatever they want and replies to their every text within 5 seconds. I don't think they typically go for other APs or secures (maybe a secure with problems, or who is just a little emotionally unavailable because they were, say, recently divorced could be ok). Your example is good, but I would stress that it can be totally unconscious. The girl most likely isn't thinking of it as a test, she might fully believe in that moment that she can't handle his political views, and then when he seems like he doesn't care, the way a secure OR an avoidant would respond, it raises his status in her eyes to a man that stands up for his beliefs and isn't approval-seeking. I feel like everyone in this thread saying they would never do something like this is assuming it is done consciously and deliberately. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 18, 2019 0:53:09 GMT
happyidiot, I think people in the thread are defining shit tests differently. One definition is based on wanting the partner to prove s/he is secure, one is based on wanting the partner to prove s/he will step up and maybe even tolerate some bad behavior, one is based on wanting the partner to prove s/he will feed into the insecure narrative of distancing because the AP person doesn't feel like enough. So semantically, it kind of depends on if you see shit tests as an exercise that's authentically done out of curiosity / having a genuine question about compatibility and isn't looking for a pre-determined conclusion (though, this is still a really immature way to go about getting that information), or if you see them as bids for connection (protest behaviors are kind of a dysfunctional form of that, at their heart), or if they're being used for sabotage (I knew the person wasn't really into me, now I've proved it!). I agree that they are often unconscious which may also be why there's a wide range of answers.
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 18, 2019 1:07:27 GMT
alexandra Yes exactly, I tried to abandon this thread earlier when I realized that there is no accepted clear definition for what a shit test is, but people keep replying haha
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 18, 2019 6:42:26 GMT
alexandra Yes exactly, I tried to abandon this thread earlier when I realized that there is no accepted clear definition for what a shit test is, but people keep replying haha Haha I didn’t see you wanted to close the post 😬 |
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Post by superman1 on Feb 11, 2019 18:39:07 GMT
I can pick on an AP guy quickly without having to 'test'. They text/message too much right from the get go/want to see each other a lot quickly. Secures dont do that. It's not enough to rule out APs. Attractive girls usually want to rule out the bottom 90% of secure guys, too. They are usually very picky, because they have plenty of choice. You need special tests to assess who is really super secure. No excessive texting is not enough. Also, some AP can behave like secures for a while. Dating coaches are very popular, and one of their most common advice is "no contact for one week after the first date". Precisely to send the message "I'm not needy". Shit tests exist because it's not always easy to know for sure who is really secure, and to what extent. And as the dating coaches say, shit tests are often done unconsciously (they teach how to identify them and how to react to them, of course). This is fascinating to me. I have been looking for more texts and meet ups from the secure guy I'm dating! I didn't think it was a AP thing just normal wanting to see him more but now I do!!!! Could we work out? |
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