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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 2:28:45 GMT
I've been making a list of things I need to practice to facilitate my earning secure:
1. self compassion
2. brutal honesty with self - one's fears, motivations, desires, and behaviors
3. ability to accept and process negative emotions
4. meta-cognition i.e., ability to think about what i'm thinking
5. detachment/de-identification from experiences (can be developed from mindfulness practices, but not necessarily)
anything else?
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 30, 2019 4:03:15 GMT
Communication maybe?
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Post by alexandra on Jan 30, 2019 5:42:07 GMT
Building solid identity (sense of self, esteem, self acceptance, comfort with self, feeling accomplished and feeling capable/self trust as a result of those accomplishments).
Practicing healthy boundaries for self and others.
Learning how to self-regulate emotions.
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Post by leavethelighton on Jan 31, 2019 1:04:26 GMT
I hate to admit it because I'm bad at it and resistant to it, but maybe....mindfulness. Being able to spend more time in the present moment.
Along with self compassion, that for others as well. Being able to recognize there are many reasons people may do what they do.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 1:57:18 GMT
Not thinking too much - no rumination, no excessive planning of the future, no fantasy making, no guessing games, no filling in the blanks for other people/what’s going on.
@leavethelighton this is also mindfulness!
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Post by ocarina on Jan 31, 2019 18:40:51 GMT
I've been making a list of things I need to practice to facilitate my earning secure: 1. self compassion 2. brutal honesty with self - one's fears, motivations, desires, and behaviors 3. ability to accept and process negative emotions 4. meta-cognition i.e., ability to think about what i'm thinking 5. detachment/de-identification from experiences (can be developed from mindfulness practices, but not necessarily) anything else? I like all of these - re the meta cognition I think I would look at it as an ability to be mindful of thoughts ie to notice them as thoughts rather than reality and not to drop into analysis.
I don't like the self esteem concept - life is hard, for everyone and we all have ups and downs - times when we feel great about ourselves and times when we don't. The same with achievements - things go wrong sometimes - period and the real skill in life is to be able to continue with equanimity during these times rather than chasing achievement, goals and validation (whether from self or others).
There's sometimes a kind of shame in feeling bad which perpetuates the attempt to feel good - and often the feeling of failure. Better maybe look at it as a radical self acceptance with self compassion whatever may happen rather than a chase after self esteem.
The single biggest help to me in recent times has been recognising core values and living by them come what may as a driver for behaviour. For example - my values might be authenticity, simplicity, compassion and so on. In any situation after bringing some attention (mindfulness) to the moment, pausing and making a behavioural choice which aligns with the kind of person I would like to be, can help prevent poor decision making and impulsive actions.
So - when faced with the drive to spend money on something I don't really need, a pause and then a reminder that I value simplicity and peace, will often break the behaviour. Works in relationships too. Complicated relationships don't lead to a peaceful and simple life for me so are out.
Not sure if I've explained this very well - maybe have a look at this if you are interested:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-lRbuy4XtA
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Post by ocarina on Jan 31, 2019 18:44:45 GMT
Building solid identity (sense of self, esteem, self acceptance, comfort with self, feeling accomplished and feeling capable/self trust as a result of those accomplishments). Practicing healthy boundaries for self and others. Learning how to self-regulate emotions. Is there a danger in cultivating self esteem/ feeling accomplished/ feeling capable in that it's goal focused and when accomplishments fail, life can feel pretty bad and we can end up feeling even worse - then going after more accomplishments in order to make us feel as though we are OK. I think in our culture this is ubiquitous and it causes a great deal of stress and unhappiness.
Speaks Mrs High Achiever constantly exhausted! 
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Post by alexandra on Jan 31, 2019 19:09:34 GMT
Building solid identity (sense of self, esteem, self acceptance, comfort with self, feeling accomplished and feeling capable/self trust as a result of those accomplishments). Practicing healthy boundaries for self and others. Learning how to self-regulate emotions. Is there a danger in cultivating self esteem/ feeling accomplished/ feeling capable in that it's goal focused and when accomplishments fail, life can feel pretty bad and we can end up feeling even worse - then going after more accomplishments in order to make us feel as though we are OK. I think in our culture this is ubiquitous and it causes a great deal of stress and unhappiness.
Speaks Mrs High Achiever constantly exhausted!
I agree if the accomplishments are to bandaid an insecure person feeling less than, for sure. But if it's in tandem with the rest of what's in the parenthesis, part of self-acceptance and building identity, you have to start somewhere to create confidence and trust in youself. It doesn't have to be things that society recognizes as "good," just what makes the person feel satisfied. It could be traveling alone, learning a sport or musical instrument, just something of actual interest to the person regardless of how it's viewed by anyone else. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 31, 2019 21:19:14 GMT
That's a good point, though. Add gaining comfort with failure and rejection to the list! Viewing them as experience/learning opportunities or just generally part of depersonalizing.
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Post by ocarina on Jan 31, 2019 21:31:45 GMT
That's a good point, though. Add gaining comfort with failure and rejection to the list! Viewing them as experience/learning opportunities or just generally part of depersonalizing. Absolutely - it's a whole raft of changes in perception.
There's a school of thought out there that suggests that distracting by taking up new hobbies, learning new skills etc is somehow in itself enough to begin to feel good about oneself - but I have an A* in that and can say that it really just leads to a whole new hamster wheel in terms of achievement and needing that to feel temporarily worthy. Comfort with uncomfortable emotions and self compassion which applies across the board whatever mindset or mistake making you're in, is a much much more useful skill to cultivate - but not one that tends to be applauded in the world I live in at least.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 31, 2019 22:02:59 GMT
ocarina, in my experience, I have been an overachiever, accomplishing lots for external validation, and that doesn't help get you out of the hamster wheel. But when I started doing new stuff I'd always wanted to try just because I was interested in it, and it didn't matter if anyone else thought it was cool or not, or even knew or not, that went a really long way in helping me to learn to trust in myself and build internal validation. Doubly so if it was something I hadn't tried in the past because I was afraid on some level. It wasn't about distracting or impressing at that point, it was just about growth. It may be part of the process being different for AP vs DA, but fundamentally trying to address the same family of wounds.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 1:31:00 GMT
i don't think self-esteem is necessarily tied to achievements/validation. it's simply seeing yourself as a worthy person as is, regardless of what achievements there are. if you are striving for achievements in order to get external validation, that's essentially low self esteem. again, behaviors can be the same in two people, but the motivation and psychological satisfaction one derives from it can be so different. ocarina and this points directly to what you're saying - gaining achievements as a form of cultivating self-esteem through external validation, rather than gaining achievements that come from an inner, grounded place of wanting to do something based on values and interests and self-challenge. the part about self-compassion is definitely bang-on for everyone, regardless of secure or insecure attachment styles! but the ability to have some self-compassion also arises from having a healthy self-esteem, such that when things aren't going well, you appreciate yourself enough not to beat yourself up about it. this applies to all insecures - we just beat ourselves up in different ways. secures tend to have higher self-compassion and self-esteem, and hence can shake off setbacks more easily. |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 1, 2019 15:36:10 GMT
Self acceptance comes before anything else - to be able to tolerate feelings with compassion whether they are positive or negative is crucial and realising that you're worthy whether you feel good or bad about yourself in that moment - that just by being alive you're worthy of love and care. I think in essence we're all saying the same thing here - it's a matter of semantics. My worry is that going in search of things that make you feel good about yourself sets you on a path to failure - learning to really treat yourself with love and kindness whether you fail or succeed is a better lesson. I get alexandra that new experiences and skills can be very empowering - especially if done just for the experience of the ride rather than as a goal or another achievement to tick off. www.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/opinion/its-great-to-suck-at-surfing.htmlThis is a great read - I'm a surfer - but a very bad one and I like to be reminded of this every time it goes wrong (which is frequently!) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 0:32:27 GMT
Self acceptance comes before anything else - to be able to tolerate feelings with compassion whether they are positive or negative is crucial and realising that you're worthy whether you feel good or bad about yourself in that moment - that just by being alive you're worthy of love and care. I think in essence we're all saying the same thing here - it's a matter of semantics. My worry is that going in search of things that make you feel good about yourself sets you on a path to failure - learning to really treat yourself with love and kindness whether you fail or succeed is a better lesson. I get alexandra that new experiences and skills can be very empowering - especially if done just for the experience of the ride rather than as a goal or another achievement to tick off. www.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/opinion/its-great-to-suck-at-surfing.htmlThis is a great read - I'm a surfer - but a very bad one and I like to be reminded of this every time it goes wrong (which is frequently!) I definitely think so!! And that’s such an important msg. Weirdly I never cared about doing things for external validation, so I always did whatever I wanted as Long as I felt like I was teaching my own internal standards for everything. So if I sucked at sports I would just be happy if I managed to hit the ball, because I knew I wasn’t going to be the next Serena Williams. However, on things that I did know I was good at, I had insane standards and would beat myself up if I didn’t meet it. Self acceptance also comes in accepting that you might not be that good at things you think you are already good at. |
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