|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 10, 2019 20:09:12 GMT
Thank you, janedoe and alexandra, this was really helpful. Wow. Yes, I can see it now, me doing all the work for both of us.
Most likely he will not change the pattern he has been in for years.
As I told him I will just have to wait and see what he choose to do.
|
|
|
Post by iz42 on Nov 10, 2019 21:12:02 GMT
It sounds like you have a lot of information. I know it probably feels like you can’t just throw away this relationship that you spent so much time and energy on. I totally understand that. But I would really think about what “waiting to see what he will do” is going to accomplish. You might set a time limit for yourself, because otherwise you could spend years waiting and hoping for him to wake up and decide to do the work. From what you posted, it sounds like he’s telling you pretty clearly that he is not up for it.
|
|
|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 10, 2019 21:38:45 GMT
It sounds like you have a lot of information. I know it probably feels like you can’t just throw away this relationship that you spent so much time and energy on. I totally understand that. But I would really think about what “waiting to see what he will do” is going to accomplish. You might set a time limit for yourself, because otherwise you could spend years waiting and hoping for him to wake up and decide to do the work. From what you posted, it sounds like he’s telling you pretty clearly that he is not up for it. You are right. Yes, a time limit for myself might be useful. I certainly are not going to wait for years. He knows I don't like the uncertainty of not knowing if or when we are going to meet. And we have agreed upon that we should try to meet in person at least once a month. So if he doesn't initiate a meeting or do/say something to show some more interest in the next couple of months, I do not need any more information. I still have hope, because our connection is better now than before. So there has been progress, and safety has been built. I have spoiled him by doing all the initiating, and he only had to show up, but now he understands it is up to him if this is going to work.
|
|
|
Post by dhali on Nov 11, 2019 3:40:30 GMT
The heart in love remains soft and sensitive. But when you’re hell bent on getting this thing or the other thing, you become ruthless, hard, and insensitive. How can you love people when you need people? You can only use them. If I need you to make me happy, I’ve got to use you, I’ve got to manipulate you, I’ve got to find ways and means of winning you. I cannot let you be free.
You’ve got eyes only for the object of your attachment. The heart has hardened. Moreover, it’s blinded, because it no longer sees the object of bits attachment objectively. Love entails clarity of perception, objectivity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 18:50:58 GMT
I know you believe you're being patient and secure, but this is a very anxious approach. Really take heart that you both think you're approaching him like a project. Yes, you've recognized you need to stop doing that, but dig deeper and figure out which of YOUR needs you're trying to address by doing that. Maybe you are right. I cannot answer which needs though, I have to think about that one. I certainly have issues myself, why else would I keep being attracted to an unavailable person – this is what I also told him yesterday. But if you are right, now I am confused about what's the difference between a secure and an anxious approach to build a connection with a fearful avoidant. I may have missed it if you mentioned it- are you in therapy for your own issues?
|
|
|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 11, 2019 21:20:33 GMT
I may have missed it if you mentioned it- are you in therapy for your own issues? No, I am not. I don't feel I need it, I am mainly secure. Even if this guy is making me preoccupied, lol. But it is this way in everything I get interested in (from creative arts to business), that I immerse intensely in reading and educating myself about the subject. And now I try to understand what is going on between us, and why I have a hang-up in a guy that "dumped" me years ago. What I have realized after I discovered attachment styles during the last year, it that my father is DA, and my mother (now dead) was FA. I have always though about my childhood as very good. It isn't until later years that I have come to understand that our communication always was superficial. My parents never said they love me, and we didn't speak about feelings. But I never doubted they loved me. As a child I was very anxious and shy, very low self-esteem. I guess I had some sort of social anxiety. But noone used this term back in the 70's. It was dismissed as shyness. I became gradually more confident and finally secure in my adulthood. I can see that this man really reminds me of my father, in many ways. So that's it, I guess. Trying to get the love and attention I didn't receive from my parents. Very classical. It doesn't change anything afterall. I will love this man whatever he decides to do.
|
|
jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by jules on Nov 11, 2019 21:31:11 GMT
I may have missed it if you mentioned it- are you in therapy for your own issues? No, I am not. I don't feel I need it, I am mainly secure. Even if this guy is making me preoccupied, lol. But it is this way in everything I get interested in (from creative arts to business), that I immerse intensely in reading and educating myself about the subject. And now I try to understand what is going on between us, and why I have a hang-up in a guy that "dumped" me years ago. What I have realized after I discovered attachment styles during the last year, it that my father is DA, and my mother (now dead) was FA. I have always though about my childhood as very good. It isn't until later years that I have come to understand that our communication always was superficial. My parents never said they love me, and we didn't speak about feelings. But I never doubted they loved me. As a child I was very anxious and shy, very low self-esteem. I guess I had some sort of social anxiety. But noone used this term back in the 70's. It was dismissed as shyness. I became gradually more confident and finally secure in my adulthood. I can see that this man really reminds me of my father, in many ways. So that's it, I guess. Trying to get the love and attention I didn't receive from my parents. Very classical. It doesn't change anything afterall. I will love this man whatever he decides to do. Confidence does not secure attachment make. Dont you think an upbringing such as yours might be subject to a tune up? I think everyone should have a few therapy sessions and let the professional ascertain what is and is not needed. Its a totally one sided relationship in which the patient always wins. My two cents.
|
|
|
Post by stu on Nov 12, 2019 12:02:50 GMT
I may have missed it if you mentioned it- are you in therapy for your own issues? No, I am not. I don't feel I need it, I am mainly secure. Even if this guy is making me preoccupied, lol. But it is this way in everything I get interested in (from creative arts to business), that I immerse intensely in reading and educating myself about the subject. And now I try to understand what is going on between us, and why I have a hang-up in a guy that "dumped" me years ago. What I have realized after I discovered attachment styles during the last year, it that my father is DA, and my mother (now dead) was FA. I have always though about my childhood as very good. It isn't until later years that I have come to understand that our communication always was superficial. My parents never said they love me, and we didn't speak about feelings. But I never doubted they loved me. As a child I was very anxious and shy, very low self-esteem. I guess I had some sort of social anxiety. But noone used this term back in the 70's. It was dismissed as shyness. I became gradually more confident and finally secure in my adulthood. I can see that this man really reminds me of my father, in many ways. So that's it, I guess. Trying to get the love and attention I didn't receive from my parents. Very classical. It doesn't change anything afterall. I will love this man whatever he decides to do. Didn't you leave your stable marriage and secure husband to pursue your feelings for an unavailable man? There are definitely some of your own things going on there for you to make those decisions. If he ever did become fully available to you it also might be possible that you get pur off and don't want him anymore either. There are many factors that go into these dynamics, but there is always at least something going on for each person to be in the situation in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 12, 2019 14:57:45 GMT
OK, maybe I actually should try to see a therapist after all. I have nothing to lose, but something to gain/learn. It would be interesting to get input from a professional.
But what kind of therapist do you recommend? There are so many branches. An ordinary psychologist? Psychotherapist? Sexologist? (I have some issues here as well)? SE-therapist? EFT-therapist? Gestalt therapist? Expert in attachment theory?
|
|
|
Post by dhali on Nov 12, 2019 16:54:11 GMT
EFT therapist
|
|
|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 14, 2019 7:42:06 GMT
I haven't identified as AP because: 1. I come up as secure in tests 2. The AP traits doesn't resonate with me: - I do not use protest behaviour - I do not need reassurance (I know he loves me) - I am not nagging - I am not playing games - I am not contacting him too often (we start texting equally much) - I do not have a low self-esteem (I know I am a good person worthy of love) - I do not think this is the only one, and that I never will find another man - I do not feel very anxious or get panic attacks
I have been the one initiating meetings in person and approaching him physically also because he has asked me to, because "you are better at this".
Yes, it has been one-sided until now, but I also think we needed it to get this far. Now he is not so afraid of me anymore, very open, honest and relaxed (except for physical touch). In many ways it had to be me taking care of getting us to where we are now. But now he should be ready to initiate himself, if he decides he wants to have a girlfriend after all (which he also have said earlier that he wants, mixed messages).
So I do not have much of the A in AP, but I most certainly have the P in AP.
I am very preoccupied with this man. I think about him last thing before I go to sleep and first thing when I wake up, and most of my awake time (when I am not focusing on a task at work).
I understand this is not healthy in the long run. It feels like an obsession. Or an addiction. That is how I best can describe it.
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Nov 14, 2019 21:38:14 GMT
IT is All on a spectrum. You can have a mix of the different attatchmentstyles. It is often said that if you are the one who has to take the most of the initiative in the beginning, it is often a sign that you are the one who has to do that in the relationship also in the future. Are you ready for that in the long run ? You do not have to have a lot of anxiety to have some of the ambivalent attatchment style. Or make protest behaviors.
What made you end your secure relationship ?
The ap can think on the subconscious level that longing and missing is love. I want what I can not have fully. Otherwise it is not love ect
Can you be who you really are in this relationship ? Can you relax, burb ect. infront of the other person ?This can be a good indicator to find out if a person is right for you
Also being together with an insecure person can make you react more insecure.
|
|
|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 17, 2019 10:13:40 GMT
It is often said that if you are the one who has to take the most of the initiative in the beginning, it is often a sign that you are the one who has to do that in the relationship also in the future. Are you ready for that in the long run ? I am not, I want it to be equal. I do not need his words to know that he loves me, but I need his actions - letting me know he wants to share time with me, prioritize me, making plans to meet, stretching himself out of his comfort zone to try and make this work. If he decides that he also wants to work in direction of an official relationship. Good question, with no easy answer. Had to think on that one. Maybe my ex husband was some kind of rebound partner to begin with, actually. We got our first child 1,5 year after FA got his. I took my baby to my old work place where FA worked, sort of showing off what I could accomplish on my own, that I was doing fine without him. And also wanting to make him regret dumping me, I guess. Very early in my marriage, with all the daily life, diapers and duties, I told my husband that I missed my old life and independency. My desire for sex with him vanished early, and I started doing duty sex, that lasted rest of our marriage. Terrible choice, I understand now. I never told him until right before we broke up. We lived kind of separate lives, while living together. I gave him a lot of space. He took a female friend of him more out than he did with me (no cheating, I know her). It wasn't until I reconnected with FA that I could feel sexual desire and passion again. It made me feel alive. It is classical, isn't it? To think my secure partner is boring, and that the impossible dream character (unavailable man) that I longed for for years was The One, making me feel something again. I still think it is love, underneath all the longing and fantasies. Because I really wish him all the best, with or without me. I think it is unconditionally. Yes, I think so. We have a good friendship as a base. We have the same humor, we respect and admire each other, we don't say cruel thing to each other. I have never talked so openly about relationship stuff with any man before. Last time we met I shared some flaws and insecurities I have, from childhood. I don't feel I have to pretend to be someone I am not. There is something very tender and nice going on between us. The last month there has been a shift in my perspective though. From wanting to make him aware of attachment issues, to not wanting to take his part of the responsibility for making things work between us. Mostly, I think he is not ready for a serious relationship yet, and I am finally prepared to let him go, if he is not up for ut. As I told him, it would be interesting to see what he choose to do, now that the ball is in his court. I cannot be just friends, if that is what he is going to suggest. Because then I always will hope for something more.
|
|
|
Post by bohemianraspberry on Nov 17, 2019 11:06:29 GMT
Last week I have been reading a book that really resonates with me. It is Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood. In an earlier post I described my focus on the FA man as an addiction. And this book really grabs this perspective. The author compares relationship addicts with alcoholics: She talks a lot about denial and control. I have finally started to see that my behavior with trying to make FA recognize his issues is actually a sort of control behavior, and that it comes form denial of how I was feeling in relationship with my parents in childhood. I see that FA and I probably share the same issues, with suppressing feelings, and fear of intimacy. But we use different defense mechanisms, that both are used to create distance. He manages to just stop thinking about feelings, both the bad ones, and the good ones. And I cope with it by taking all this time to try to understand him and his issues, instead of looking at my own. His remark of feeling like being my project was what I needed to hear, I am greatful about it. Although I now have to focus on understanding myself, and that sucks, lol. Here are some quotes from the book: The books goes very deep and ends with advice of how to get out of the pattern.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 13:23:43 GMT
bohemianraspberry you've struck gold, this is where your answers lie.
|
|