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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 17:46:22 GMT
Wow to the women here cheating on their husbands and criticizing the emotional maturity and capacity of the men they pursued while married. Just wow. Always someone else fucking things up for them I guess. Thanks for your kindness...not gonna try to justify my actions! If I wasn't trying to work on my problems I wouldn't be on here asking for advice... Ok, just a fly on the wall as people are posting and responding about intermittent reinforcement. And accusing the "unavailable man" of "making excuses". It just seems like such a victim mentality when surely you must realize how manipulative and destabilizing your own position was for him! You wanted your cake and eat it too... nobody has or should or ought to prove themselves consistent and available to a married woman, except her husband. |
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addict
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Post by addict on Dec 6, 2019 18:25:38 GMT
Do you feel differently towards him since your epiphany moment? Do you no longer fantasise that he's the one? I still think he is special to me, and I don't think I could say no if he, against all odds, suddenly called and said he was coming to my city this weekend to meet me. But this is only a fantasy, because it is something an emotionally grown-up man would do. This one is not capable of it at this stage of dating. I think he is emontionally at the same age as my teenager sons. And that is not really attractive for someone close to 50... His behavior is getting more and more into a turn-off. I am able to distinguish between a good man (that he certainly is), and a good partner (that he unfortunately is not). I am very aware that there are a lot of good men out there, that also are good partners. But I have not been able to consider them, because I have been blinded by my obsession. The "just push the button one more time and I will win the big prize" mindset. Yes I can relate totally, the just one more try mindset is an addiction! The thing is in my situation it worked many times and many times it didn't so you never really know what reaction you're gonna get... I agree he's still special to you and always will be...but hey isn't the turn off the best thing that could happen? I know I only feel the passion for someone who is cold and uninterested.. How sad is that! |
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Post by addict on Dec 6, 2019 18:33:50 GMT
Thanks for your kindness...not gonna try to justify my actions! If I wasn't trying to work on my problems I wouldn't be on here asking for advice... Ok, just a fly on the wall as people are posting and responding about intermittent reinforcement. And accusing the "unavailable man" of "making excuses". It just seems like such a victim mentality when surely you must realize how manipulative and destabilizing your own position was for him! You wanted your cake and eat it too... nobody has or should or ought to prove themselves consistent and available to a married woman, except her husband. I've never asked anyone to prove themselves to me... All I asked for was to get to know him.. Is that too much to ask when you are unaware of attachments and someone is hot and cold on a daily basis? Do you not think it controlling to offer sex to someone then take it away saying I'd have to leave my marriage first? In hindsight of course now I've read stuff if I was secure in the first place I would never have got involved... But I've been very unloved all my life, married someone like my father but more possessive... I actually fell for words of kindness and sexual come ons... How sad is that... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 1:24:00 GMT
Ok, just a fly on the wall as people are posting and responding about intermittent reinforcement. And accusing the "unavailable man" of "making excuses". It just seems like such a victim mentality when surely you must realize how manipulative and destabilizing your own position was for him! You wanted your cake and eat it too... nobody has or should or ought to prove themselves consistent and available to a married woman, except her husband. I've never asked anyone to prove themselves to me... All I asked for was to get to know him.. Is that too much to ask when you are unaware of attachments and someone is hot and cold on a daily basis? Do you not think it controlling to offer sex to someone then take it away saying I'd have to leave my marriage first? In hindsight of course now I've read stuff if I was secure in the first place I would never have got involved... But I've been very unloved all my life, married someone like my father but more possessive... I actually fell for words of kindness and sexual come ons... How sad is that... I think most of us with insecure attachment feel the same about being or feeling unloved our whole lives. It is sad. Your accounts of this guys feelings indicate he has a lot of sadness too, and to add to that he felt guilt about being involved with you behind your husbands back. No I do not think it is controlling that he made a boundary not to be sexually involved with you while you were married. He did that with you initially and his guilt and conscience arose and it became painful for him. He told you that- and you made the choice to stay married. That's your business- but it's not fair to this guy to call him controlling because he didn't want to continue a sexual relationship that violated his values and emotional well being. He has pain too, clearly, you outlined it in your posts. To be married and try it on with someone else, that's your choice. He chose not to try it on with you while you remained married. I can't fault him one bit for that. As to hot and cold? I think a LOT of people would be very conflicted , up and down, and insecure and indecisive if they felt an attraction and become involved with someone who is married. Who could feel consistent and secure and like they know the right direction to take- with a married women? Of course the cold prevailed in the end- people can only do crazy unhealthy stuff so long before they bottom out and have to stop making themselves feel worse. His guilt prevented him from continuing in the end. He had to face and accept your choice to remain married, he declined your offer to continue the test drive. Ever think he felt intermittently reinforced by you? All this awesome connection- with a big fat dead end at the reality of your marriage. It's a messy situation and painful, no doubt. I just don't see that he somehow did you wrong. He survived a painful messy situation in a way that he could live with. No way someone could offer consistent reinforcement to you in that scenario. So the whole convo here about intermittent reinforcement and whether or not he was intentional, or controlling- well honestly it blew my mind looking at the big picture you have shared here. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 1:27:40 GMT
Also addict I did not see on my phone screen that your other post was in the support for AP section. I deleted it, as that area is purposed differently than open discussion areas. My bad on the placement- I didn't see it until I switched views. |
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Post by addict on Dec 7, 2019 13:21:30 GMT
I've never asked anyone to prove themselves to me... All I asked for was to get to know him.. Is that too much to ask when you are unaware of attachments and someone is hot and cold on a daily basis? Do you not think it controlling to offer sex to someone then take it away saying I'd have to leave my marriage first? In hindsight of course now I've read stuff if I was secure in the first place I would never have got involved... But I've been very unloved all my life, married someone like my father but more possessive... I actually fell for words of kindness and sexual come ons... How sad is that... I think most of us with insecure attachment feel the same about being or feeling unloved our whole lives. It is sad. Your accounts of this guys feelings indicate he has a lot of sadness too, and to add to that he felt guilt about being involved with you behind your husbands back. No I do not think it is controlling that he made a boundary not to be sexually involved with you while you were married. He did that with you initially and his guilt and conscience arose and it became painful for him. He told you that- and you made the choice to stay married. That's your business- but it's not fair to this guy to call him controlling because he didn't want to continue a sexual relationship that violated his values and emotional well being. He has pain too, clearly, you outlined it in your posts. To be married and try it on with someone else, that's your choice. He chose not to try it on with you while you remained married. I can't fault him one bit for that. As to hot and cold? I think a LOT of people would be very conflicted , up and down, and insecure and indecisive if they felt an attraction and become involved with someone who is married. Who could feel consistent and secure and like they know the right direction to take- with a married women? Of course the cold prevailed in the end- people can only do crazy unhealthy stuff so long before they bottom out and have to stop making themselves feel worse. His guilt prevented him from continuing in the end. He had to face and accept your choice to remain married, he declined your offer to continue the test drive. Ever think he felt intermittently reinforced by you? All this awesome connection- with a big fat dead end at the reality of your marriage. It's a messy situation and painful, no doubt. I just don't see that he somehow did you wrong. He survived a painful messy situation in a way that he could live with. No way someone could offer consistent reinforcement to you in that scenario. So the whole convo here about intermittent reinforcement and whether or not he was intentional, or controlling- well honestly it blew my mind looking at the big picture you have shared here. Aww thank you so much for your reply...it was extremely helpful and actually brought a tear to my eye...you answered pretty much any question I've had battling around in my brain...I know what you're saying is right on most counts...I was scared to commit as he seemed to go distant every time we got closer...of course he was doing it for self preservation....I so wanted to give my whole being but he made me feel it was the last thing he wanted...I think we were both scared! He was probably scared to jump in in case I didn't leave my marriage. He kept running as we discussed what to do..which scared me even more...a very sad situation we got in to...I guess I hoped he would give me a bit more time...I still haven't said I'm not going to leave but as he's ignored any attempt I've made to reach out to him I guess he's no longer interested in whether I do or don't...thanks again...I really appreciate your post! |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Dec 7, 2019 14:53:13 GMT
Update: Today I decided to "break up" with FA...  It feels sad and it hurts to finally let go. But it was a needed action to get on with my life. I ended it by texting, because this is how we communicate, so it felt natural. Short version of dialogue: Me: I realize that this is how far we got. It is sad, but I see that it is not working. Thought it is better to say goodbye than just fade out. Him: I see that too, I use all my time on work. I thought about the same thing, it is not fair to have you on hold. Me: I don't want to be a secret admirer or a Plan B. I have registered on a dating site and are chatting with an interesting man. I think it is fair of me to tell you, since I have made myself exclusive to you, even if you haven't promised me anything. Him: You are an honest and good person. I hope we still can be friends. I wish for you to meet someone else, since I am not "quite online". Me: You are an honest and good person too, even if you are not capable of being a good partner right now. I hope you will get help to sort things out, if you should decide not to stay single. Because this will not pass by of itself. It will happen with the next woman you meet too. I know you cannot blame the women you were with, because you were this way 20 years ago... Him: You know me better than I know myself. Thank you very much, you have given me a lot to think about. You have challenged me with a your strange questions. I have enjoyed the times we met. Me: I could have told you more, but it isn't my job to do it. You must get to know yourself. And you must love yourself as much as I love you. We cannot be just friends, at least not for a long time. I have to get you out of my system. So please don't contact me or try to flirt with me. It will only make me confused and sad. And I want to be happy. Him: I understand. I will answer only when you contact me. I promise, I will do my very best. Me: I have learned a lot about myself too, this last year. So if we both have been wiser, something good has got out of this. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 15:25:01 GMT
addict you're welcome, and I'm glad it gave some perspective to the pain you're in. I think that insecure attachment issues can just get so messy and confusing that it's hard to see the forest for the trees. I'd suggest a good therapist, especially one who practices somatic work for attachment. It's done wonders for me.
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Post by addict on Dec 7, 2019 18:37:23 GMT
Update: Today I decided to "break up" with FA... It feels sad and it hurts to finally let go. But it was a needed action to get on with my life. I ended it by texting, because this is how we communicate, so it felt natural. Short version of dialogue: Me: I realize that this is how far we got. It is sad, but I see that it is not working. Thought it is better to say goodbye than just fade out. Him: I see that too, I use all my time on work. I thought about the same thing, it is not fair to have you on hold. Me: I don't want to be a secret admirer or a Plan B. I have registered on a dating site and are chatting with an interesting man. I think it is fair of me to tell you, since I have made myself exclusive to you, even if you haven't promised me anything. Him: You are an honest and good person. I hope we still can be friends. I wish for you to meet someone else, since I am not "quite online". Me: You are an honest and good person too, even if you are not capable of being a good partner right now. I hope you will get help to sort things out, if you should decide not to stay single. Because this will not pass by of itself. It will happen with the next woman you meet too. I know you cannot blame the women you were with, because you were this way 20 years ago... Him: You know me better than I know myself. Thank you very much, you have given me a lot to think about. You have challenged me with a your strange questions. I have enjoyed the times we met. Me: I could have told you more, but it isn't my job to do it. You must get to know yourself. And you must love yourself as much as I love you. We cannot be just friends, at least not for a long time. I have to get you out of my system. So please don't contact me or try to flirt with me. It will only make me confused and sad. And I want to be happy. Him: I understand. I will answer only when you contact me. I promise, I will do my very best. Me: I have learned a lot about myself too, this last year. So if we both have been wiser, something good has got out of this. Aww bohemian raspberry, sending huge hugs.. That was a brave move! He sounds lovely on his texts and I'm so pleased for you both that you ended it explaining why etc...it was very brave of him to reply and not leave you hanging... You've come such a long way and I wish you the very best... How do you feel? I know I would now be very anxious... But at least you've had a good response and in time you may be able to be friends .... |
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Post by addict on Dec 7, 2019 18:42:26 GMT
addict you're welcome, and I'm glad it gave some perspective to the pain you're in. I think that insecure attachment issues can just get so messy and confusing that it's hard to see the forest for the trees. I'd suggest a good therapist, especially one who practices somatic work for attachment. It's done wonders for me. In mourning, thank you... Yes it's all very confusing and lots of self doubt... I constantly blame myself but in reality it was him that decided he didn't want me .. It's coming to terms with that! Today After reading what you wrote I so wanted to reach out to him but I guess it's just triggers and I'm better off not doing anything as if he wanted to talk to me he knows he can.. I've been very sad today 😪... I have contacted several therapists who've both said they can't help me at the moment... Hopefully I can find one in the New Year... Thank you again... |
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Post by kittygirl on Dec 7, 2019 18:42:55 GMT
Yeah that's actually a great point addict. So many people on here simply get ghosted when there is unpleasantness which is the cruelest form of breakup in my opinion. Its a GIFT that you were able to exchange some words even if you don't see it that way right now. My guess is that as the addiction withdrawals start to fade you will be so clear headed and see this for what it was. YOu are an inspiration to me and others on here. Thank you for sharing your story. |
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Post by addict on Dec 7, 2019 18:51:26 GMT
Yeah that's actually a great point addict . So many people on here simply get ghosted when there is unpleasantness which is the cruelest form of breakup in my opinion. Its a GIFT that you were able to exchange some words even if you don't see it that way right now. My guess is that as the addiction withdrawals start to fade you will be so clear headed and see this for what it was. YOu are an inspiration to me and others on here. Thank you for sharing your story. Hey kittygirl, I agree with you... Ghosting has made me so sad and feel so insignificant... This thread is an inspiration to me too... |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Dec 9, 2019 17:03:03 GMT
Thanks for your hugs, addict Yes, I feel brave. And sad. And relieved. And confused. And a bit regretful (I could have waited a bit longer)... His response was lovely and made me feel even more for him. He is such a good man, even with his quirks. Actually I had expected him to step up and maybe suggest to meet next month or something. And maybe I am a bit disappointed that he just agreed to break up. However, it was the best thing he could have done for me, to let me go. It shows respect and understanding. One part of me (the feeling part) want him to wake up, and to see that it is possible for him in the future to have a healthy relationship with someone, if he get help sorting things through. I have obviously contributed to make him more aware, and he appreciated it. I haven't come that far in this process that I don't still hope for us... The other part of me (the reasoning part) understands that he is not able to give me what I need right now, and maybe never. The long distance also complicate things. This part wants me to forget thinking about him at all, and just move on without him. Update: Today I went to psychologist #2. As you might remember, #1 didn't think I needed any treatment. I didn't think so myself at the time, but friends and you forum-guys have made me think different. I liked this psychologist more immediately, we sort of connected. She understood the issues very quick. She said I seem to be emotionally unavailable myself (ouch, there it was...), and need to connect my feelings to my reasoning. She said there seems to be something I am looking for that I haven't got in my relationships (neither with parents or with partners), and that it is not actually the FA man himself that I search. It totally makes sense. I will see her again next week. |
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Post by addict on Dec 9, 2019 19:15:27 GMT
Thanks for your hugs, addict Yes, I feel brave. And sad. And relieved. And confused. And a bit regretful (I could have waited a bit longer)... His response was lovely and made me feel even more for him. He is such a good man, even with his quirks. Actually I had expected him to step up and maybe suggest to meet next month or something. And maybe I am a bit disappointed that he just agreed to break up. However, it was the best thing he could have done for me, to let me go. It shows respect and understanding. One part of me (the feeling part) want him to wake up, and to see that it is possible for him in the future to have a healthy relationship with someone, if he get help sorting things through. I have obviously contributed to make him more aware, and he appreciated it. I haven't come that far in this process that I don't still hope for us... The other part of me (the reasoning part) understands that he is not able to give me what I need right now, and maybe never. The long distance also complicate things. This part wants me to forget thinking about him at all, and just move on without him. Update: Today I went to psychologist #2. As you might remember, #1 didn't think I needed any treatment. I didn't think so myself at the time, but friends and you forum-guys have made me think different. I liked this psychologist more immediately, we sort of connected. She understood the issues very quick. She said I seem to be emotionally unavailable myself (ouch, there it was...), and need to connect my feelings to my reasoning. She said there seems to be something I am looking for that I haven't got in my relationships (neither with parents or with partners), and that it is not actually the FA man himself that I search. It totally makes sense. I will see her again next week. Aww I completely understand everything you've wrote...of course in a way when we do these things we are truly hoping that they will pull out all the stops and do anything to keep us..it's so sad for all concerned.. yes long distance definitely dosent help as you never get to bump in to them naturally , out of sight out of mind probably for them...you are doing well but you will of course have days when you feel so sad and bereft thinking of what you could have possibly had...sending hugs 😖 Have you read he's scared, she's scared? I know I'm married so unavailable, but it says you have to be emotionally unavailable to want a relationship with another unavailable...I literally was shaking my head at myself on every page...let me know how you get on at the next session! I definitely need to see someone myself as I'm quite sure i have an addiction! I can't stop thinking about him and it's been hideous his weekend!!!..is it ok for me to private message you? |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Dec 9, 2019 19:58:26 GMT
Have you read he's scared, she's scared? (...) is it ok for me to private message you? Yes, I read that book too, along with many others.. You can PM me, but if it could be helpful for the other forum members, I encourage you write it here  |
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It feels sad and it hurts to finally let go. But it was a needed action to get on with my life.