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Post by amber on Jan 6, 2020 23:40:09 GMT
If you read the article I posted he talks about how avoidants exist by themselves in a timeless,spaceless continuum, so perhaps two years to an avoidant is not the same time wise in terms of how we would perceive it?! Also he only take about avoidants generally, he doesn’t seperate FA and DA so I’m not entirely sure how that would work...if you read Pete walkers stuff he talks about hybrids of fight/flight modes which gives great insight into how people respond with different branches of the nervous system, ie fawn/freeze types or freeze/fight types
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Post by nyc718 on Jan 7, 2020 2:54:02 GMT
If you read the article I posted he talks about how avoidants exist by themselves in a timeless,spaceless continuum, so perhaps two years to an avoidant is not the same time wise in terms of how we would perceive it?! Also he only take about avoidants generally, he doesn’t seperate FA and DA so I’m not entirely sure how that would work...if you read Pete walkers stuff he talks about hybrids of fight/flight modes which gives great insight into how people respond with different branches of the nervous system, ie fawn/freeze types or freeze/fight types That is something I definitely want to understand, how time works differently like that. It never crossed my mind at all that time somehow works differently for different people until I learned about FA, especially with the distancing/deactivation stuff that goes on. I have so many questions! Such as, if an FA is in daily contact with someone for a certain amount of time, let's say several months, and then deactivates for days, weeks, months, I mean, do those days of deactivation somehow go faster all of a sudden or something? How is it one can go from daily contact to no contact for whatever length of time, and then not understand that the other person is then totally confused as to what happened to the previous pattern of communication? That's what happened with me and that ex. We were in contact every day, several times a day for about 6 months....then we weren't. On top of that, the "I'm slammed with work" started happening. Of course I was going to notice that things were off, how could I not be confused, and then bewildered that things all of sudden changed and never went back to where it was? I do understand that the closeness starts to subconsciously kick up the nervous system to make them distance, but for them, are there conscious thoughts that go on such as, we were in daily contact several times a day, and now I don't even feel like contacting them for days or even weeks, or months, but it's okay, things are going to be just fine when I eventually feel like contacting, if i do feel like contacting? Clearly I need to read up on what you referenced. I do understand how with friends, this kind of time thing can happen without question. I can go for months or years not connecting with a friend, then we reconnect and pick up to where we are, but that's a different kind of relationship. A romantic relationship is a more connected one, so to go for weeks or months, or even years without connection, and then to just jump back in, this is something I don't get. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 7, 2020 3:10:00 GMT
If you read the article I posted he talks about how avoidants exist by themselves in a timeless,spaceless continuum, so perhaps two years to an avoidant is not the same time wise in terms of how we would perceive it?! Also he only take about avoidants generally, he doesn’t seperate FA and DA so I’m not entirely sure how that would work...if you read Pete walkers stuff he talks about hybrids of fight/flight modes which gives great insight into how people respond with different branches of the nervous system, ie fawn/freeze types or freeze/fight types That is something I definitely want to understand, how time works differently like that. It never crossed my mind at all that time somehow works differently for different people until I learned about FA, especially with the distancing/deactivation stuff that goes on. I have so many questions! Such as, if an FA is in daily contact with someone for a certain amount of time, let's say several months, and then deactivates for days, weeks, months, I mean, do those days of deactivation somehow go faster all of a sudden or something? How is it one can go from daily contact to no contact for whatever length of time, and then not understand that the other person is then totally confused as to what happened to the previous pattern of communication? That's what happened with me and that ex. We were in contact every day, several times a day for about 6 months....then we weren't. On top of that, the "I'm slammed with work" started happening. Of course I was going to notice that things were off, how could I not be confused, and then bewildered that things all of sudden changed and never went back to where it was? I do understand that the closeness starts to subconsciously kick up the nervous system to make them distance, but for them, are there conscious thoughts that go on such as, we were in daily contact several times a day, and now I don't even feel like contacting them for days or even weeks, or months, but it's okay, things are going to be just fine when I eventually feel like contacting, if i do feel like contacting? Clearly I need to read up on what you referenced. I do understand how with friends, this kind of time thing can happen without question. I can go for months or years not connecting with a friend, then we reconnect and pick up to where we are, but that's a different kind of relationship. A romantic relationship is a more connected one, so to go for weeks or months, or even years without connection, and then to just jump back in, this is something I don't get. Seemingly it's totally linked to the 'flashbacks' ("triggers" that an F-A does not identify with until self aware), which in turn instigates the critical inner voice (low self esteem, negative self talk, literally talking themselves out of the relationship anyway they can) and is tied to whichever of the 4F response combinations you identify with due to the trauma experienced, one or more of these will be instigating responses as opposed to a blend of all 4F responses to a stimuli. Same happened to me, chased me for 15 months via mutual friends, was all over me 8-9/10 attraction level, was talking about the future etc (but was also negative self talking herself openly with low self esteem at the same time), was fawning after me (cooking stuff and bringing it around, 10-20 texts a day etc was very over the top in the beginning), then after I tried to sit calmly and talk about the negative self talk in a centred way, that was the first signs of pullback, then an excuse she had her kids for a month with no days off and was flat out (meanwhile was literal 'people pleasing' strangers running after them), which I questioned after 3 months of dating and said 4 weeks not seeing each other was not really acceptable. We went out to dinner with mutual friends that introduced us, and the next week she blamed her ailing health and that she wanted to work on herself and catch up again in 3 months time hopefully. I can't work out if my F-A is a "fawn-freeze' or a 'fawn-flight' at this stage, certainly elements of all 3 in there. I also seen her once get aggressive over nothing. So a lot going on there. As Thais Gibson explains though, the mind is oscillating a lot? Can any of the F-As in here comment on that? |
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 3:25:44 GMT
That is something I definitely want to understand, how time works differently like that. It never crossed my mind at all that time somehow works differently for different people until I learned about FA, especially with the distancing/deactivation stuff that goes on. I have so many questions! Such as, if an FA is in daily contact with someone for a certain amount of time, let's say several months, and then deactivates for days, weeks, months, I mean, do those days of deactivation somehow go faster all of a sudden or something? How is it one can go from daily contact to no contact for whatever length of time, and then not understand that the other person is then totally confused as to what happened to the previous pattern of communication? That's what happened with me and that ex. We were in contact every day, several times a day for about 6 months....then we weren't. On top of that, the "I'm slammed with work" started happening. Of course I was going to notice that things were off, how could I not be confused, and then bewildered that things all of sudden changed and never went back to where it was? I do understand that the closeness starts to subconsciously kick up the nervous system to make them distance, but for them, are there conscious thoughts that go on such as, we were in daily contact several times a day, and now I don't even feel like contacting them for days or even weeks, or months, but it's okay, things are going to be just fine when I eventually feel like contacting, if i do feel like contacting? Clearly I need to read up on what you referenced. I do understand how with friends, this kind of time thing can happen without question. I can go for months or years not connecting with a friend, then we reconnect and pick up to where we are, but that's a different kind of relationship. A romantic relationship is a more connected one, so to go for weeks or months, or even years without connection, and then to just jump back in, this is something I don't get.I want to understand this too! im hoping Alexandra (how do I tag her??) might chime in for this as im sure she will have some idea |
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 3:28:15 GMT
can Alexandra chime in on this> how do I tag her?
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 3:34:09 GMT
my ex FA also has a strong critical inner voice. he told me once he " doesn't like who he is and wishes he could be someone else"... he always had this belief that he needed to do better at everything, but it was always vague as to what that was. I think these people must have had very critical, distant parents who punished them for just being themselves, and they have a huge well of deep shame and self hatred. I wonder if the timelessness mentioned above happens because of disassociation?
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 7, 2020 3:48:13 GMT
Seemingly it's totally linked to the 'flashbacks' ("triggers" that an F-A does not identify with until self aware), which in turn instigates the critical inner voice (low self esteem, negative self talk, literally talking themselves out of the relationship anyway they can) and is tied to whichever of the 4F response combinations you identify with due to the trauma experienced, one or more of these will be instigating responses as opposed to a blend of all 4F responses to a stimuli. Same happened to me, chased me for 15 months via mutual friends, was all over me 8-9/10 attraction level, was talking about the future etc (but was also negative self talking herself openly with low self esteem at the same time), was fawning after me (cooking stuff and bringing it around, 10-20 texts a day etc was very over the top in the beginning), then after I tried to sit calmly and talk about the negative self talk in a centred way, that was the first signs of pullback, then an excuse she had her kids for a month with no days off and was flat out (meanwhile was literal 'people pleasing' strangers running after them), which I questioned after 3 months of dating and said 4 weeks not seeing each other was not really acceptable. We went out to dinner with mutual friends that introduced us, and the next week she blamed her ailing health and that she wanted to work on herself and catch up again in 3 months time hopefully. I can't work out if my F-A is a "fawn-freeze' or a 'fawn-flight' at this stage, certainly elements of all 3 in there. I also seen her once get aggressive over nothing. So a lot going on there. As Thais Gibson explains though, the mind is oscillating a lot? Can any of the F-As in here comment on that? This is so interesting, and I can relate to some of this. My FA he mentioned getting angry over nothing and cited that’s one reason he started meds last summer. Maybe I’m just not thinking clearly, but can you explain this part a little more? “ which in turn instigates the critical inner voice (low self esteem, negative self talk, literally talking themselves out of the relationship anyway they can)” Is this because they think they’ll let the person down, aren’t good enough, or something but they aren’t recognizing it so it comes out as the other person’s fault for or for engulfing them? And that’s why they get so dismissive? My FA has a deep critical inner voice. We’ve talked about it a little. When we got back together the other week, he said he’s never been mad at me. Which I found interesting. Last week, I felt those deep critical wheels turning when he left... and I could feel the switch, I just don’t know exactly if I said something that triggered. And things were SOOO good before that and he’s been responsive since but nothing much as I’ve mentioned. My F-A literally talked herself out of the relationship with me, even though we had a tonne of fun always and laughed together. She literally brought up all these scenarios where I may not be suitable without me actually being able to prove myself. i.e. I'm not sure you'll handle my children, I don;t think you'll like my homelife etc etc on top of "you're too good for me, I don't know why your with me" etc etc. So definitely the inner voice at work here (which is what I have alerted her too in my attempt to awaken her recently). If you read Pete Walkers book, he clearly explains once he realised he was actually doing this to himself he could break it down and resist with positive affirmations and calming himself and taking time. Now it's slightly different for the 4F's you identify with in his book as he outlines. From my experience, she was very biologically attracted, she still is, it's purely the attachment trauma and the inner critical voice. I'm gonna link Liberty Cairde here, it appears along these lines, with the "inner voice"/"negative self talk" (this is clearly from the abuse of being rundown constantly in turn low self esteem, neurological rewiring?). I don't know, only from what I've read and have tried to understand. She has multiple videos on her channel that goes through her inner voices (zombies she calls them), she uses Pete Walkers method, among EMDR, and some meditation. As I say she's taken around 2 years to get on top of it all, and sort of known for 4 years but had to go through some personal issues again to snap her into action where she said to herself, "i'm, not doing this anymore", so amazing self actualisation there, heartwarming to see. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvbxTHqZU4 |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 7, 2020 4:45:03 GMT
Looks like I've commented on this in a couple old threads. I'd also add that avoidants tend to have difficulty remembering their childhoods, which includes confusion about passage of time. I think there's definitely a dissociation aspect that prevents processing and can make someone not realize how much they've shut down on a romantic partner or for how long. I've experienced it on the receiving end, and there's some descriptions of deactivation that DAs wrote on that board that would provide a better first-hand account of how this happens. My other example is my FA ex would give me the silent treatment in times of extreme triggering. I got really upset the last time he did that because I directly stated it made me feel bad and why. He later told me, he needed space and didn't want to keep hurting me so thought it was better to not respond at all for a month. What I've realized since then is he needs space because, sometimes instead of processing things, he actually disassociates. Not just about me, either, I've seen it happen about other things and not understood it was what was going on. I'm not sure he has any idea that he does it. But, it's not about me one bit, it's a maladaptive coping mechanism he picked up at some point that I cannot help him with, and causes distance between us so he can't meet my needs. My long-term FA boyfriend deactivated every time we were on the verge of a change in relationship, either breaking up or getting more serious. He disappear, and after a few weeks would come back and not have noticed. He honestly thought he was just busier than usual, not realize weeks had passed, once he even blamed his phone -- but he really believed it. The only time he ever recognized that he'd gone silent on me on his own was when he came back because he was triggered anxious by something I said, and then he was all acknowledgement, awareness, and apologies, explaining he had no idea why it had happened and thanking me for staying consistent and not taking it personally. ... If you're AP, look inward to deal with this because you can't manage someone else's deactivation, you can only recognize it's an action they're taking but it's not something they are consciously doing to you. |
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Post by mrob on Jan 7, 2020 4:55:37 GMT
That is something I definitely want to understand, how time works differently like that. It never crossed my mind at all that time somehow works differently for different people until I learned about FA, especially with the distancing/deactivation stuff that goes on. I have so many questions! Such as, if an FA is in daily contact with someone for a certain amount of time, let's say several months, and then deactivates for days, weeks, months, I mean, do those days of deactivation somehow go faster all of a sudden or something? How is it one can go from daily contact to no contact for whatever length of time, and then not understand that the other person is then totally confused as to what happened to the previous pattern of communication? That's what happened with me and that ex. We were in contact every day, several times a day for about 6 months....then we weren't. On top of that, the "I'm slammed with work" started happening. Of course I was going to notice that things were off, how could I not be confused, and then bewildered that things all of sudden changed and never went back to where it was? I do understand that the closeness starts to subconsciously kick up the nervous system to make them distance, but for them, are there conscious thoughts that go on such as, we were in daily contact several times a day, and now I don't even feel like contacting them for days or even weeks, or months, but it's okay, things are going to be just fine when I eventually feel like contacting, if i do feel like contacting? Clearly I need to read up on what you referenced. I do understand how with friends, this kind of time thing can happen without question. I can go for months or years not connecting with a friend, then we reconnect and pick up to where we are, but that's a different kind of relationship. A romantic relationship is a more connected one, so to go for weeks or months, or even years without connection, and then to just jump back in, this is something I don't get. Seemingly it's totally linked to the 'flashbacks' ("triggers" that an F-A does not identify with until self aware), which in turn instigates the critical inner voice (low self esteem, negative self talk, literally talking themselves out of the relationship anyway they can) and is tied to whichever of the 4F response combinations you identify with due to the trauma experienced, one or more of these will be instigating responses as opposed to a blend of all 4F responses to a stimuli. Same happened to me, chased me for 15 months via mutual friends, was all over me 8-9/10 attraction level, was talking about the future etc (but was also negative self talking herself openly with low self esteem at the same time), was fawning after me (cooking stuff and bringing it around, 10-20 texts a day etc was very over the top in the beginning), then after I tried to sit calmly and talk about the negative self talk in a centred way, that was the first signs of pullback, then an excuse she had her kids for a month with no days off and was flat out (meanwhile was literal 'people pleasing' strangers running after them), which I questioned after 3 months of dating and said 4 weeks not seeing each other was not really acceptable. We went out to dinner with mutual friends that introduced us, and the next week she blamed her ailing health and that she wanted to work on herself and catch up again in 3 months time hopefully. I can't work out if my F-A is a "fawn-freeze' or a 'fawn-flight' at this stage, certainly elements of all 3 in there. I also seen her once get aggressive over nothing. So a lot going on there. As Thais Gibson explains though, the mind is oscillating a lot? Can any of the F-As in here comment on that? I have pulled back at escalation. Escalation could have been crossing the boundary and talking about her inner talk, or in my case calling the relationship what it was. If I feel that my personal sovereignty is being threatened, I’ll deactivate. Hope that helps. |
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 5:01:36 GMT
This is so interesting, and I can relate to some of this. My FA he mentioned getting angry over nothing and cited that’s one reason he started meds last summer. Maybe I’m just not thinking clearly, but can you explain this part a little more? “ which in turn instigates the critical inner voice (low self esteem, negative self talk, literally talking themselves out of the relationship anyway they can)” Is this because they think they’ll let the person down, aren’t good enough, or something but they aren’t recognizing it so it comes out as the other person’s fault for or for engulfing them? And that’s why they get so dismissive? My FA has a deep critical inner voice. We’ve talked about it a little. When we got back together the other week, he said he’s never been mad at me. Which I found interesting. Last week, I felt those deep critical wheels turning when he left... and I could feel the switch, I just don’t know exactly if I said something that triggered. And things were SOOO good before that and he’s been responsive since but nothing much as I’ve mentioned. My F-A literally talked herself out of the relationship with me, even though we had a tonne of fun always and laughed together. She literally brought up all these scenarios where I may not be suitable without me actually being able to prove myself. i.e. I'm not sure you'll handle my children, I don;t think you'll like my homelife etc etc on top of "you're too good for me, I don't know why your with me" etc etc. So definitely the inner voice at work here (which is what I have alerted her too in my attempt to awaken her recently). If you read Pete Walkers book, he clearly explains once he realised he was actually doing this to himself he could break it down and resist with positive affirmations and calming himself and taking time. Now it's slightly different for the 4F's you identify with in his book as he outlines. From my experience, she was very biologically attracted, she still is, it's purely the attachment trauma and the inner critical voice. I'm gonna link Liberty Cairde here, it appears along these lines, with the "inner voice"/"negative self talk" (this is clearly from the abuse of being rundown constantly in turn low self esteem, neurological rewiring?). I don't know, only from what I've read and have tried to understand. She has multiple videos on her channel that goes through her inner voices (zombies she calls them), she uses Pete Walkers method, among EMDR, and some meditation. As I say she's taken around 2 years to get on top of it all, and sort of known for 4 years but had to go through some personal issues again to snap her into action where she said to herself, "i'm, not doing this anymore", so amazing self actualisation there, heartwarming to see. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvbxTHqZU4I can relate...my ex FA told me he didn’t think we could ever live together “because I like and have nice things”!? There was so many superficial reasons why he thought we wouldn’t work out. I’m amazed at all the knowledge on this forum...together we could make the worlds top therapist I recon 😄 |
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 5:06:06 GMT
Looks like I've commented on this in a couple old threads. I'd also add that avoidants tend to have difficulty remembering their childhoods, which includes confusion about passage of time. I think there's definitely a dissociation aspect that prevents processing and can make someone not realize how much they've shut down on a romantic partner or for how long. I've experienced it on the receiving end, and there's some descriptions of deactivation that DAs wrote on that board that would provide a better first-hand account of how this happens. My other example is my FA ex would give me the silent treatment in times of extreme triggering. I got really upset the last time he did that because I directly stated it made me feel bad and why. He later told me, he needed space and didn't want to keep hurting me so thought it was better to not respond at all for a month. What I've realized since then is he needs space because, sometimes instead of processing things, he actually disassociates. Not just about me, either, I've seen it happen about other things and not understood it was what was going on. I'm not sure he has any idea that he does it. But, it's not about me one bit, it's a maladaptive coping mechanism he picked up at some point that I cannot help him with, and causes distance between us so he can't meet my needs. My long-term FA boyfriend deactivated every time we were on the verge of a change in relationship, either breaking up or getting more serious. He disappear, and after a few weeks would come back and not have noticed. He honestly thought he was just busier than usual, not realize weeks had passed, once he even blamed his phone -- but he really believed it. The only time he ever recognized that he'd gone silent on me on his own was when he came back because he was triggered anxious by something I said, and then he was all acknowledgement, awareness, and apologies, explaining he had no idea why it had happened and thanking me for staying consistent and not taking it personally. ... If you're AP, look inward to deal with this because you can't manage someone else's deactivation, you can only recognize it's an action they're taking but it's not something they are consciously doing to you. [ This is soooo fascinating. When you say confusion about passage of time, can you elaborate on this? Is this linked to forgetting childhood, kind of like a suppression of memory as a survival mechanism? Do you think this is why they cycle; because after say a month or two of disassociating they come out of it not having a sense of how much time has lapsed, and maybe not processing their feelings in that time? Ie after say two months, the partner they left may have processed their feelings and be over the FA, but the FA hasn’t processed and still loves the person and wants to get back together or something? I remember reading somewhere about how FA as small toddlers approached mothers with a bid for connection but were rejected, so developed this mechanism for “always waiting for the perfect way to approach/come back”...I wonder if this then applies to the way they relate when they deactivate in romantic relationships? |
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 5:11:42 GMT
I can personally relate to the critical self voice, negative self talk, and talking myself out of being good enough for things. I used to do this basically 24/7, and just up until recently have shifted and only do this a much smaller percentage of the time. So I get that part of it. Frankly, nothing worked for me until I learned the root of it through attachment theory. No amount of previous therapy, working out, venting to friends, meds, etc — nothing worked. I can even relate to general avoidance... but what I can't personally relate to is the extreme avoidance and shut down after intimacy. I guess maybe I could get it if something was so good then I'm thinking "oh once they get to know me, they'll abandon me"? But I don't get the engulfment piece... so it's hard for me to think about how a nice compliment or follow-up would be repulsive. (as that's what I'm gathering it might feel like for FAs?) For example, knowing my FA has this deep inner critic (like I have had for most of my life, maybe his is worse?) and knowing he's struggling esp about work — it's hard for me right now to think texting something like "hope today being back wasn't too painful" would be repulsive and engulfing. My guess is that anything is engulfing because of expectations or just overall? Or would it? Am I misunderstanding? Caroline I’m not sure if this helps or not...I’m AP but can have very strong avoidant tendencies if triggered by neediness or sometimes every just pure needs.im sure I was FA when in my early twenties but have done a lot of healing around this. I can relate to the FA way. My mother was bpd and would either ignore me and give silent treatment, be abusive and controlling or totally parentify me by invading my space with her neediness, problems and feelings. I’ve been with men in the past where their needs have felt like total engulfment to me, and I feel disgusted, freaked out and like I want to run. I used to get nauseous from it. I would feel totally turned off by nice behaviour like someone buying me a gift. Do you know if your partner had a parent that was invasive in any way? I have to really watch those triggers in myself as they are still there and can really take over automatically. I think that’s why I like avoidants as feeling anxiety is way better than feeling engulfed to me. At least with anxiety of abdandoment I still feel a sense of self...with engulfment I lose that. |
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Post by amber on Jan 7, 2020 5:13:23 GMT
I think FA have a strong sabetour that probably jeopardises romantic relationships...they don’t feel deserving or worthy so find ways to end them before they may get hurt or the partner realises how bad they really are?
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Post by serenity on Jan 7, 2020 5:16:28 GMT
If you read the article I posted he talks about how avoidants exist by themselves in a timeless,spaceless continuum, so perhaps two years to an avoidant is not the same time wise in terms of how we would perceive it?! Also he only take about avoidants generally, he doesn’t seperate FA and DA so I’m not entirely sure how that would work...if you read Pete walkers stuff he talks about hybrids of fight/flight modes which gives great insight into how people respond with different branches of the nervous system, ie fawn/freeze types or freeze/fight types That is something I definitely want to understand, how time works differently like that. It never crossed my mind at all that time somehow works differently for different people until I learned about FA, especially with the distancing/deactivation stuff that goes on. I have so many questions! Such as, if an FA is in daily contact with someone for a certain amount of time, let's say several months, and then deactivates for days, weeks, months, I mean, do those days of deactivation somehow go faster all of a sudden or something? How is it one can go from daily contact to no contact for whatever length of time, and then not understand that the other person is then totally confused as to what happened to the previous pattern of communication? That's what happened with me and that ex. We were in contact every day, several times a day for about 6 months....then we weren't. On top of that, the "I'm slammed with work" started happening. Of course I was going to notice that things were off, how could I not be confused, and then bewildered that things all of sudden changed and never went back to where it was? I do understand that the closeness starts to subconsciously kick up the nervous system to make them distance, but for them, are there conscious thoughts that go on such as, we were in daily contact several times a day, and now I don't even feel like contacting them for days or even weeks, or months, but it's okay, things are going to be just fine when I eventually feel like contacting, if i do feel like contacting? Clearly I need to read up on what you referenced. I've thought a lot about this too. My take is they don't really grieve the end of relationships or periods of broken connection. Instead they fully dissociate, and employ mental distancing strategies to help with dissociation..stuff like immersing themselves in work or hobbies, mentally belittling the relationship , the partner, and/or themselves, or crushing on someone new. They're not feeling the grief and sadness, so they don't get over you. And when the closeness trigger passes, their mindset can change dramatically. Time frames for DA's `swinging back' after a major trigger seems to a bit longer than with FA's, and it all depends on whether they have a tendency to replace you with other lovers or not. It looked just like C-PTSD triggering and splitting to me, as a partner. I used to say that directly to my ex as well, and he agreed with it. But when he split, he split,and there was no way to argue my way through his negative mindset. I had to wait for his nervous system and mind to calm down again. I think its awful that these people who need and want love and closeness, have learned so young that its not a safe thing to want or have. And they make relationships they have with other people unsafe too. I have the same opinion as dual citizen about all this, that the best way to help them is as a detached friend, and to guide them towards treatment for their trauma. The distress they cause themselves, anyone who loves them, and especially children is so extensive and harmful, I feel they need to be told by someone to get help. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 7, 2020 5:16:45 GMT
Seemingly it's totally linked to the 'flashbacks' ("triggers" that an F-A does not identify with until self aware), which in turn instigates the critical inner voice (low self esteem, negative self talk, literally talking themselves out of the relationship anyway they can) and is tied to whichever of the 4F response combinations you identify with due to the trauma experienced, one or more of these will be instigating responses as opposed to a blend of all 4F responses to a stimuli. Same happened to me, chased me for 15 months via mutual friends, was all over me 8-9/10 attraction level, was talking about the future etc (but was also negative self talking herself openly with low self esteem at the same time), was fawning after me (cooking stuff and bringing it around, 10-20 texts a day etc was very over the top in the beginning), then after I tried to sit calmly and talk about the negative self talk in a centred way, that was the first signs of pullback, then an excuse she had her kids for a month with no days off and was flat out (meanwhile was literal 'people pleasing' strangers running after them), which I questioned after 3 months of dating and said 4 weeks not seeing each other was not really acceptable. We went out to dinner with mutual friends that introduced us, and the next week she blamed her ailing health and that she wanted to work on herself and catch up again in 3 months time hopefully. I can't work out if my F-A is a "fawn-freeze' or a 'fawn-flight' at this stage, certainly elements of all 3 in there. I also seen her once get aggressive over nothing. So a lot going on there. As Thais Gibson explains though, the mind is oscillating a lot? Can any of the F-As in here comment on that? I have pulled back at escalation. Escalation could have been crossing the boundary and talking about her inner talk, or in my case calling the relationship what it was. If I feel that my personal sovereignty is being threatened, I’ll deactivate. Hope that helps. It does make sense, escalating I presume "closeness"? Which would ignite attachment trauma to parent, who mistreated you. "personal sovereignty" meaning you feel trapped to the perceived love/relationship? Is the inner voice at work or images of perceived failure during this process? |
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