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Post by lovebunny on May 1, 2020 15:06:43 GMT
....it is the fear...the “I don’t ever want to see him, hear about him” where his name throws me into a tailspin of freeze and avoid. Under the fear there is profound embarrassment, sadness, anger....but without adult tools it comes out as avoiding everything associated with him...mutual friends, church, the singles group. Wow thank you for putting this into words. Sorry you're going through this, of course, but glad to know I'm not the only one who experiences it. I've gone through that with several exes, am going through it now regarding my most recent ex who dumped me 10 months ago after an 8 1/2 month relationship. I cannot stand to hear or see their names on social media, and want to avoid anyone who reminds me of them. It's frustrating as heck, especially as I live in a small community where it's impossible to avoid anyone indefinitely. It makes me feel like I'm a weakling, and like I can never just relax because I'm always on the look-out for fear of running into them or hearing about them. I'm in a wonderful new relationship, but still feel this way. So I sympathize entirely. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 1, 2020 16:21:58 GMT
....it is the fear...the “I don’t ever want to see him, hear about him” where his name throws me into a tailspin of freeze and avoid. Under the fear there is profound embarrassment, sadness, anger....but without adult tools it comes out as avoiding everything associated with him...mutual friends, church, the singles group. Wow thank you for putting this into words. Sorry you're going through this, of course, but glad to know I'm not the only one who experiences it. I've gone through that with several exes, am going through it now regarding my most recent ex who dumped me 10 months ago after an 8 1/2 month relationship. I cannot stand to hear or see their names on social media, and want to avoid anyone who reminds me of them. It's frustrating as heck, especially as I live in a small community where it's impossible to avoid anyone indefinitely. It makes me feel like I'm a weakling, and like I can never just relax because I'm always on the look-out for fear of running into them or hearing about them. I'm in a wonderful new relationship, but still feel this way. So I sympathize entirely. It is not weakness...it is lack of tools. And that part of you that is feeding you that feeling of being a weakling is your own version of your parent. For insecures....the “parent” is that judging voice that will tell you all the ways you are broken, weak, unacceptable, imperfect etc. My issue is that I have been spending decades in a young child/critical parent monologue. It is how I have chosen partners, it is how I view others, it is how i view myself. There is this budding adult that is trying to find her footing.....but it is a day at a time, a moment by moment...learning to trust myself and finding ways to express and support the child and acknowledge the parent but make it clear that she is not the main player now...the adult is. |
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Post by kittygirl on May 1, 2020 21:11:54 GMT
Oh tnr9 I can only imagine how hard this was to learn. I know one of your reoccurring thoughts is you wonder if he was actually FA or if you pushed him away with your behavior. I know you (logically) already know this but just to reassure you: the fact that he got engaged has NOTHING to do with whether he's FA. So many of the FAs on this forum have been married. My FA ex was married and let me tell you-the FA issues don't go away on their own (despite how it may appear on the outside). My ex was the one who asked for the divorce from his wife, moved out and now alllll he wants is to get back together with her (and all she wants is for him to finalize the divorce). From the outside looking in, they had a perfect life but behind closed doors all the issues with intimacy and pain (for both of them) were pervasive. The hot/cold. The needing space. She loves to travel and did all of that alone or with friends. Never with him. Not to mention, a lot of times the engagements fall through because the escalation of commitment is too much. Perhaps this will really mark a place of true closure for you. If he is FA (which from what I have read seems so highly likely) I feel sympathy for both of them since the end result of this is almost certainly inevitable pain-only they can't see it yet (but you can because you're armed with knowledge about attachment. How empowering!). |
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Post by tnr9 on May 2, 2020 9:11:08 GMT
Oh tnr9 I can only imagine how hard this was to learn. I know one of your reoccurring thoughts is you wonder if he was actually FA or if you pushed him away with your behavior. I know you (logically) already know this but just to reassure you: the fact that he got engaged has NOTHING to do with whether he's FA. So many of the FAs on this forum have been married. My FA ex was married and let me tell you-the FA issues don't go away on their own (despite how it may appear on the outside). My ex was the one who asked for the divorce from his wife, moved out and now alllll he wants is to get back together with her (and all she wants is for him to finalize the divorce). From the outside looking in, they had a perfect life but behind closed doors all the issues with intimacy and pain (for both of them) were pervasive. The hot/cold. The needing space. She loves to travel and did all of that alone or with friends. Never with him. Not to mention, a lot of times the engagements fall through because the escalation of commitment is too much. Perhaps this will really mark a place of true closure for you. If he is FA (which from what I have read seems so highly likely) I feel sympathy for both of them since the end result of this is almost certainly inevitable pain-only they can't see it yet (but you can because you're armed with knowledge about attachment. How empowering!). Thank you Kittygirl....really I needed someone else to counter the “he isn’t FA, I just pushed him away” thoughts. I was pondering why I question that so much....and my mind cannot fathom what has happened in such a short period of time without also the magically belief that he is not FA. I have this picture in my mind of him being so very different from when he was with me. Not just a physical transformation, but also an emotional one as well. It seems so real....even though, to your point, I really don’t know what is going on. I am truly grateful to this community for he.ping me through this. It is bringing closure, although it is generating a lot of strong emotions within that process. |
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Post by alexandra on May 2, 2020 17:04:53 GMT
Thank you Kittygirl....really I needed someone else to counter the “he isn’t FA, I just pushed him away” thoughts. I was pondering why I question that so much....and my mind cannot fathom what has happened in such a short period of time without also the magically belief that he is not FA. It's really interesting, and good that you recognize, that you seek external validation and regulation for this (ie trust others more than self). We've never met him and don't actually know... though based on everything you've ever said, he sounds very emotionally unstable and most likely FA. I have no doubt he's the same way with everyone. But we're basing that on your description, which means, you've picked up on it already... you already know on your own. You just need to keep working on trusting yourself about it  |
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Post by Helsbells on May 2, 2020 18:06:47 GMT
Aww my lovely I'm so so sorry that this news has reached you.
Just to share a little from what my ex FA told me about himself whilst he was married. He told me he initially wanted it to feel "normal", as all his brothers were getting married. The truth is he felt extremely trapped and resentful at his choice. He hated the fact that she wanted to do couple things once they were married like entertaining friends for dinner and socialising. He cheated on her and withheld sex. He told me all in all it was the worse 3 yrs off his life. When he mentioned the few women that he really loved over the past years she wasnt one off them. God only knows what is going on for him, but if he is FA they dont always do things for the right reasons but to people please and want the world to see them as a normal bloke.
I truly believe this guy wasn't a good match to you as he new how loving and caring you were.
The two women my ex told me that he loved, really didnt sound like love to me. Sounded more like they triggered him very insecure as they were both very out going and flirty and had a big social life without him.
I dont want someone to be with me because I trigger them insecure hell no. I want the real deal, the good and the bad, warts and all.
Mine was trying hard to go there again with me.... erm no I dont think so. I want a real man who is mature and available, not a man child who isnt willing to change. It's time to trust the universe and god now girl and allow him the space to bring the perfect mate to you.
With all the work you have done on yourself let go and let god bring him too you. Sending you love and a massive hug from across the pond xxx
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Post by tnr9 on May 2, 2020 18:30:15 GMT
Thank you Kittygirl....really I needed someone else to counter the “he isn’t FA, I just pushed him away” thoughts. I was pondering why I question that so much....and my mind cannot fathom what has happened in such a short period of time without also the magically belief that he is not FA. It's really interesting, and good that you recognize, that you seek external validation and regulation for this (ie trust others more than self). We've never met him and don't actually know... though based on everything you've ever said, he sounds very emotionally unstable and most likely FA. I have no doubt he's the same way with everyone. But we're basing that on your description, which means, you've picked up on it already... you already know on your own. You just need to keep working on trusting yourself about it Well....the issue with trusting myself is that I am all over the place....meaning, I don’t have a clear and concrete perspective of him. Yes...while he was with me he had issues with alcohol and marijuana. He did not like conflict. He zoned out often. But part of me now wonders if some of his behavior was because of his doubts and the fact that in general, he was not seeking a long term relationship with me. And since his history has been only short term relationships...I don’t know how he would be in one he truly committed to....and that is where my doubt comes from. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 2, 2020 18:40:42 GMT
Aww my lovely I'm so so sorry that this news has reached you. Just to share a little from what my ex FA told me about himself whilst he was married. He told me he initially wanted it to feel "normal", as all his brothers were getting married. The truth is he felt extremely trapped and resentful at his choice. He hated the fact that she wanted to do couple things once they were married like entertaining friends for dinner and socialising. He cheated on her and withheld sex. He told me all in all it was the worse 3 yrs off his life. When he mentioned the few women that he really loved over the past years she wasnt one off them. God only knows what is going on for him, but if he is FA they dont always do things for the right reasons but to people please and want the world to see them as a normal bloke. I truly believe this guy wasn't a good match to you as he new how loving and caring you were. The two women my ex told me that he loved, really didnt sound like love to me. Sounded more like they triggered him very insecure as they were both very out going and flirty and had a big social life without him. I dont want someone to be with me because I trigger them insecure hell no. I want the real deal, the good and the bad, warts and all. Mine was trying hard to go there again with me.... erm no I dont think so. I want a real man who is mature and available, not a man child who isnt willing to change. It's time to trust the universe and god now girl and allow him the space to bring the perfect mate to you. With all the work you have done on yourself let go and let god bring him too you. Sending you love and a massive hug from across the pond xxx Hey hellsbells.....thank you so much. B definitely has wanted to get married, he used to tell me that was the reason he wanted to go back to the community he and I had attended because he thought it would be the best place to meet someone. He also wants kids because he did not raise his son G. G was born to an ex girlfriend when B was 21. BTW...I am completely aware that I am defending him above....I think I am over tired from not sleeping well. |
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Post by annieb on May 2, 2020 19:11:51 GMT
For what it’s worth, and I’m probably much older than you. But a couple of my exes from when I was young and I obsessed over one of them for 10 years, I’ve seen over the years how their marriages have fallen apart and the destruction they left on their paths. Thanks Facebook. But it was a wake up call for sure. Nothing is what it appears and certainly nothing is like our fantasy. I saw the new wives, the improved versions of me move on to other marriages and they inspired me.
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Post by alexandra on May 2, 2020 19:21:37 GMT
It's really interesting, and good that you recognize, that you seek external validation and regulation for this (ie trust others more than self). We've never met him and don't actually know... though based on everything you've ever said, he sounds very emotionally unstable and most likely FA. I have no doubt he's the same way with everyone. But we're basing that on your description, which means, you've picked up on it already... you already know on your own. You just need to keep working on trusting yourself about it Well....the issue with trusting myself is that I am all over the place....meaning, I don’t have a clear and concrete perspective of him. Yes...while he was with me he had issues with alcohol and marijuana. He did not like conflict. He zoned out often. But part of me now wonders if some of his behavior was because of his doubts and the fact that in general, he was not seeking a long term relationship with me. And since his history has been only short term relationships...I don’t know how he would be in one he truly committed to....and that is where my doubt comes from. I think what kittygirl and Helsbells shared is spot on, though. Not everyone has the same motivations for marriage. Just because he's in the relationship on paper doesn't mean it looks like any kind of marriage you'd ever want or would make you happy. Or his fiance is avoidant and he's triggered insecure and anxious, and they'll eventually hit the anxious-avoidant dance wall even if others aren't privy to knowing about it. I'd highly weight the fact that he's at this age with a history of short-term relationships only (so, he's got a long history of not taking responsibility to commit to partners) and a child that he didn't take responsibility to be there for. I'd actually hate to be the woman he's now cutting his teeth on trying out a real, committed, responsible adult relationship with (I'm just calling it that if he's trying to get married and have children, though playing house is different than having a mature and healthy relationship). Trying to enter into a serious relationship / marriage with someone who has no history of working through issues, committing, doing good conflict resolution, or good communication.... no, I will never do that again. He's given no indication he's actually done the difficult self-work to make real changes and do more than bandaid appearance fixes. And I think the fallacy in you blaming yourself for his behavior (that it was driven by his doubts about you) is that -- you can be not serious about someone but still be honest, upfront, and respectful. Not withhold information or lead the person on (or allow them to lead themselves on, if it's obvious they're very attached to you). A person of good character will still be fair to you, especially if they're more secure. He was sketchy with you instead, and that was his choice and matches his history with others. Doubts shouldn't mean you treat someone disrespectfully. If it does mean that, then what you're seeing is someone who only sees value in people he wants something from while he wants it. That is not a thoughtful, considerate, caring partner. |
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Post by Helsbells on May 2, 2020 20:44:08 GMT
Well....the issue with trusting myself is that I am all over the place....meaning, I don’t have a clear and concrete perspective of him. Yes...while he was with me he had issues with alcohol and marijuana. He did not like conflict. He zoned out often. But part of me now wonders if some of his behavior was because of his doubts and the fact that in general, he was not seeking a long term relationship with me. And since his history has been only short term relationships...I don’t know how he would be in one he truly committed to....and that is where my doubt comes from. I think what kittygirl and Helsbells shared is spot on, though. Not everyone has the same motivations for marriage. Just because he's in the relationship on paper doesn't mean it looks like any kind of marriage you'd ever want or would make you happy. Or his fiance is avoidant and he's triggered insecure and anxious, and they'll eventually hit the anxious-avoidant dance wall even if others aren't privy to knowing about it. I'd highly weight the fact that he's at this age with a history of short-term relationships only (so, he's got a long history of not taking responsibility to commit to partners) and a child that he didn't take responsibility to be there for. I'd actually hate to be the woman he's now cutting his teeth on trying out a real, committed, responsible adult relationship with (I'm just calling it that if he's trying to get married and have children, though playing house is different than having a mature and healthy relationship). Trying to enter into a serious relationship / marriage with someone who has no history of working through issues, committing, doing good conflict resolution, or good communication.... no, I will never do that again. He's given no indication he's actually done the difficult self-work to make real changes and do more than bandaid appearance fixes. And I think the fallacy in you blaming yourself for his behavior (that it was driven by his doubts about you) is that -- you can be not serious about someone but still be honest, upfront, and respectful. Not withhold information or lead the person on (or allow them to lead themselves on, if it's obvious they're very attached to you). A person of good character will still be fair to you, especially if they're more secure. He was sketchy with you instead, and that was his choice and matches his history with others. Doubts shouldn't mean you treat someone disrespectfully. If it does mean that, then what you're seeing is someone who only sees value in people he wants something from while he wants it. That is not a thoughtful, considerate, caring partner. spot on my girly. Sorry but I dont by into love ever after with this guy. If hes christian and managed to fine a victim similar to his age.... well enough said. Sorry @trn9 but I wouldn't lose another nights sleep over this proposal. He drinks heavy and avoids conflict. Unless hes done any serious work, then I dont hold out any hope of a happy future. Lots of my mature friends are coming across avoidants on the dating pool, omg the patterns are so scarily the same. Go find yourself a nice Christian committed man, who adores you for the awsome person you are. Let him go xxx |
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Post by amber on May 2, 2020 23:41:07 GMT
Well....the issue with trusting myself is that I am all over the place....meaning, I don’t have a clear and concrete perspective of him. Yes...while he was with me he had issues with alcohol and marijuana. He did not like conflict. He zoned out often. But part of me now wonders if some of his behavior was because of his doubts and the fact that in general, he was not seeking a long term relationship with me. And since his history has been only short term relationships...I don’t know how he would be in one he truly committed to....and that is where my doubt comes from. I think what kittygirl and Helsbells shared is spot on, though. Not everyone has the same motivations for marriage. Just because he's in the relationship on paper doesn't mean it looks like any kind of marriage you'd ever want or would make you happy. Or his fiance is avoidant and he's triggered insecure and anxious, and they'll eventually hit the anxious-avoidant dance wall even if others aren't privy to knowing about it. I'd highly weight the fact that he's at this age with a history of short-term relationships only (so, he's got a long history of not taking responsibility to commit to partners) and a child that he didn't take responsibility to be there for. I'd actually hate to be the woman he's now cutting his teeth on trying out a real, committed, responsible adult relationship with (I'm just calling it that if he's trying to get married and have children, though playing house is different than having a mature and healthy relationship). Trying to enter into a serious relationship / marriage with someone who has no history of working through issues, committing, doing good conflict resolution, or good communication.... no, I will never do that again. He's given no indication he's actually done the difficult self-work to make real changes and do more than bandaid appearance fixes. And I think the fallacy in you blaming yourself for his behavior (that it was driven by his doubts about you) is that -- you can be not serious about someone but still be honest, upfront, and respectful. Not withhold information or lead the person on (or allow them to lead themselves on, if it's obvious they're very attached to you). A person of good character will still be fair to you, especially if they're more secure. He was sketchy with you instead, and that was his choice and matches his history with others. Doubts shouldn't mean you treat someone disrespectfully. If it does mean that, then what you're seeing is someone who only sees value in people he wants something from while he wants it. That is not a thoughtful, considerate, caring partner. I too will be taking a thorough r/ship history audit with potential future partners after my experience with ex FA who had never had any kind of normal r/ship and had been mostly single and unable to commit a decade before meeting me. Did I ignore some red flags or what?! I like the saying that goes something like ‘a persons past behaviour generally predicts future behaviour”.unless of course they have worked to change it |
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Post by Helsbells on May 3, 2020 12:32:48 GMT
I think what kittygirl and Helsbells shared is spot on, though. Not everyone has the same motivations for marriage. Just because he's in the relationship on paper doesn't mean it looks like any kind of marriage you'd ever want or would make you happy. Or his fiance is avoidant and he's triggered insecure and anxious, and they'll eventually hit the anxious-avoidant dance wall even if others aren't privy to knowing about it. I'd highly weight the fact that he's at this age with a history of short-term relationships only (so, he's got a long history of not taking responsibility to commit to partners) and a child that he didn't take responsibility to be there for. I'd actually hate to be the woman he's now cutting his teeth on trying out a real, committed, responsible adult relationship with (I'm just calling it that if he's trying to get married and have children, though playing house is different than having a mature and healthy relationship). Trying to enter into a serious relationship / marriage with someone who has no history of working through issues, committing, doing good conflict resolution, or good communication.... no, I will never do that again. He's given no indication he's actually done the difficult self-work to make real changes and do more than bandaid appearance fixes. And I think the fallacy in you blaming yourself for his behavior (that it was driven by his doubts about you) is that -- you can be not serious about someone but still be honest, upfront, and respectful. Not withhold information or lead the person on (or allow them to lead themselves on, if it's obvious they're very attached to you). A person of good character will still be fair to you, especially if they're more secure. He was sketchy with you instead, and that was his choice and matches his history with others. Doubts shouldn't mean you treat someone disrespectfully. If it does mean that, then what you're seeing is someone who only sees value in people he wants something from while he wants it. That is not a thoughtful, considerate, caring partner. I too will be taking a thorough r/ship history audit with potential future partners after my experience with ex FA who had never had any kind of normal r/ship and had been mostly single and unable to commit a decade before meeting me. Did I ignore some red flags or what?! I like the saying that goes something like ‘a persons past behaviour generally predicts future behaviour”.unless of course they have worked to change it [br amber, I think you are right my lovely. Doing the inner work and being self aware is game changing for me. Without awareness and help I just dont think a person can change. They just take the same them the same shit into any future relationships hoping it will be through another that they will show up differently. I have never seen this happen without inner work. My ex actually told me he is rubbish in relationships and a rubbish boyfriend. I wanted to be the ONE, that proved him differently that he could be a great bf. Talk about a red flag, my own attachment and ego got in the way and as a result we both got hurt. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 4, 2020 12:28:04 GMT
Thank you all so much.....you have all given me such good information to counter any thoughts that come along. I had a dream last night that was part work and part about B (I was trying to write him a letter congratulating him on his upcoming marriage and got stuck in mud while considering what to say) so it is apparent to me that I still have a lot of processing to do.
I do want to however be very careful to not have anyone think this post means that I was a victim.....because I too am insecure and was responsible for half of the dance. There are many ways in which I failed myself because I just wanted to keep the relationship with B...and those are things I am working on with my therapist.
Also...there still are many kind aspects to B....and I do not want this thread to come across as bashing him...because it is not. I just needed to see B with all his human insecure complexities and stop viewing him through the lens of a very altruistic,loving, forgiving child who only sees him as all good,
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Post by serenity on May 4, 2020 20:25:55 GMT
Hugs trn9,
I feel personally that the part of me that needed the most work was my self protective side... That "loving inner adult" whose job is to steer me out of harms way, and make good judgement calls in my own interest. Protection and loyalty from care givers were pretty much absent from my childhood, and its been a lifelong process learning how to provide those things to myself. These days, I'm very attracted to loyal, protective friends. Its unusual for me to experience those things, but I'm putting the lion share of my energy into those connections and its feeling very good.
To me it doesn't matter so much if we have the capacity for loving wounded guys, seeing the best in them and wanting to help. The world needs deeply loving, beautiful people. But we need to guard ourselves from harm and prize trustworthiness as a character trait in the ones we let close.
B had a ton great qualities from the sounds of it. But he was not someone you could trust with your heart.
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