Post by mads on Jun 7, 2020 21:25:51 GMT
Hi all, I have been lurking here for quite a while and have gotten a lot out of it.
Similar story to many here.
Firstly, I consider myself a secure and have tested secure several times. However this relationship has definitely sprung me more into the FA category. I have had 4 secure relationships in the past and remain friendly with most of them. But this entire thing (relationship with an FA who leans more on the DA end) has put me thru a loop bigtime. If it wasn't for myself having a psychology background and realizing it wasn't really *me* persay causing a lot of the issues, I would have left long ago... But I guess I kept thinking this person would try to fix himself, as he has admitted and is fully aware these are his issues. It just isn't enough, at least not right now.
Started dating a guy, Ben, an FA, nearly 3 years ago. We connected really well over text. Both only children, and just a similar view of the world, humor, etc. We talked a ton leading up to meeting. When we met in person, I was a little thrown off.. the conversation was a bit shallow but still very respectful.. but that wasn't a red flag compared to what was to come.
He wouldn't let me come back to his place or come over to mine for quite a long time. He scheduled our dates in public in short time periods, then had to escape. When we did finally start sleeping together, the sex was very disconnected, like he became another person, wouldn't look me in the eyes at all. He asked me to leave right after a couple times at first which was puzzling and painful. I asked about it and he was very apologetic, trying to explain that it was hard for him to self-regulate with someone else there. Could not handle sleepovers for a long time. I understood and accepted it.
As time went on, the problem became centered around him not including me in his life. I have still after 3 years never met his parents nor do they know I exist. When going anywhere significant with him he would take photos of himself only to send to family. That still didn't bother me. The not meeting family didn't bother me. What did bother me was him continuing to make it very clear his friends were his main priority. Planning trips only with them, doing thoughtful things for their birthdays or even their SO's birthdays and nothing for mine, I wasn't invited to his Friendsgiving dinner, I wasn't included basically ever... Very very slowly, as I vocalized that this bothered me, he did start to include me a bit.
The problem then turned into sex. Not only did he stop having sex with me, but the times I attempted to initiate.. which, were extremely few... he acted as if he was a cornered animal and literally had to run out of the room. As of today, we probably only have had sex 10 or less times, and nothing in the last year. And I know he is still using porn by himself. I asked about it. Note here that most of the time I would bring up an issue, in a non confrontational way, he would play dumb about it but acknowledge it and quickly change the subject. However, he said this had been a pattern with exes. He was seeing a therapist when I met him. He said his ex had sent him to the therapist because they weren't having sex. I thought it was curious but at the time that therapist told him it was because he wasn't attracted to her because he felt like he was a caretaker. At the time he and I were having sex albeit not very frequently and I didn't imagine it would become a problem between us since I am very independent.. there is no caretaker vibe. But now, I see. It was because she was expressing needs. Needs that he felt threatened to meet because he was afraid he couldn't meet his own. He also is completely unable to view a relationship as a team system. Very very separate, compartmentalized. Leading to resentment on both our ends. I would bring this up and he would understand, but these things are clearly so engrained.
He has a strained relationship with his mother. And is very afraid of her. She seems extremely cold. His parents lived apart almost their entire marriage and he normalized this to me. His mom is the avoidant. They split recently, the dad finally cheated and the mom is trying to get Ben on her side. It is fairly toxic. To make matters worse, he was sexually abused by a nanny as a child and never told any of his parents. At 8 years old. So, he has C-PTSD going on from that.
There have been times where I had enough and began to move on. One of those times, he noticed a man (guy friend of mine) sent me something on Venmo, and became extremely threatened by that, reaching out to me a LOT, and after we had not had sex for over 8 months, he was suddenly sending me very sexually explicit texts, dick pics, etc. When we finally met up in person we had sex, then when our "relationship" stabilized that side of him vanished again.
There have been times he discusses moving in together, marriage. Expressing he will need a lot of space. When he does sleep over at my place, he tends to need to spend time alone in the mornings for a long time in another room. He has said being at my place is scary for him. Lots of anxiety. He is ok for one night but its difficult for him to sleep and he tends to need to run in the morning. He has never even showered here. It scares him. I accepted it.
He started seeing a new therapist a few weeks ago. I helped him find this person. It was supposed to be couples therapy. I talked to the therapist on the phone first. He diagnosed Ben with C-PTSD and "Madonna whore syndrome", or at least said that was what it most likely was over the phone. Ben talked to the therapist next. Again, it was supposed to be couples therapy.. He told me that I could not be a part of it, because I would not want to hear what he was talking about, and it was private. I totally understand him wanting a safe space to talk about his sex abuse, and sex related issues. However I was disappointed I was being cut out of the therapy entirely because we cannot have any sort of conversation that involves any degree of emotional intimacy without him basically having an anxiety attack and needing to run away, so the therapy to me was going to be a space we could communicate in. Also, when he comes over, at least lately, since I think the therapy has sent him a bit into a weird headspace, but he has always been like this mostly- he is on his phone 90% of the time, and/or needs a movie or show to be on. He cannot be present. Things feel extremely heavy, he is so reluctant to share, and it just gets worse when we get closer. Two months ago he felt like he was losing me again, and he expressed that he felt abandoned, asking what was going on, and so forth, told me that he loved me (for the first time ever). After that verbal expression he freaked out and started distancing again.
On Thursday night, we went and met a couple friends of mine for some pizza and wine. Everything was fine, but he was still on edge from the conversation about me being cut out of therapy. He tried to sleep on the couch, and when I asked if he was ok, he reluctantly moved to the bed, still wearing his jeans and jacket. He had his hands clapsed on his chest like he was a corpse. It bothered me. I asked to talk, I said it felt like he was pulling away from me. I can't remember what he said, but it was rude, probably something like "I'm sorry I don't think about this relationship stuff like you do" implying its not important.. I do know he said something about why friendship is more important to him over relationships to which I asked, Am I not even a friend? Which he seemed puzzled by. and then I went on to bring up how we haven't had sex in over a year, asking what does he want, what is his goal (he said he doesn't know), that we are mid 30s and have discussed wanting a family but he's just pulling further and further away from me, how it feels like he doesn't care or respect me as a person when I have stated all of this is hurting me and he isn't working on it, that everything is centered all on him all of the time. He said he probably would not be able to have sex with me ever again. That he is in therapy but that he probably won't be able to change or doesn't understand how. That he wishes he could be like normal people. "If I could, don't you think I would?!?" Admitted that he parentalizes me and is scared of me, like he is of his Mom. He kept asking if we could not talk about it, that he "doesn't have the tools". I pushed. "When am I supposed to talk about it. You cut me out of therapy. You don't speak to me anymore barely over text unless it's some nonsensical joke photo.. is on his phone 247 in front of me or "watching a movie".." He agreed with all of it. He just kept saying "I wish I wasn't like this. I am broken." He pretty much shut down so I eventually rolled over and went to sleep.
In the morning we didn't say anything (happens often). He got up and left after we laid in silence for 2+ hours (he was on his phone). Later in the day, I texted him. I said I am sorry that I pushed to have that conversation last night. But I am glad we had it. Am I correct that you said you don't want to be in a relationship anymore (he said we should be friends). He responded that everything I said was fair and true. But that he won't be able to meet any of my needs. That he "can't even think" about ever getting married (despite the fact that he has said he wanted to before) or having a family. That he hopes we can be friends. I got upset and said it felt like he was giving up on us. He said something to the effect of that he would be willing to see his therapist WITH me but also said that it seems like so much to change when he is so broken, and that he doesn't want to keep doing this to me and it feels like he is ruining my life, and I deserve to be happy, etc. He also said he would "go to a couple sessions with me but only if I kept in mind he may not be the right person for me". I got fairly quiet.
Since then, I sent him a photo of our friend's new place that he responded to, and I noticed he forwarded me some kind of funny email to me last night at 10pm. I haven't responded. It is so much to think about, and I love this person so much. I do know that he is so good at compartmentalizing, that he doesn't feel much pain after breakups, or when he and I aren't talking.. that has only happened twice when he was very triggered about another man. A lot has happened since then to where the energy on this just got heavier so I can't imagine him getting triggered about losing me again.
I could follow up with his offer to see that therapist together. But, he is a sex therapist, not really versed in attachment styles at all. I'm not sure how far it would get. I'm a bit lost. I'm not sure what I am asking for here but sharing, and looking for support and advice I guess. I really do love Ben, and can see myself with him, but not like this. I think I need to not respond or reach out for a bit, and give the whole situation some space. He is fully in a freeze state right now, and I don't think he would even be able to think clearly yet, and I feel confused as well. It is truly a mess at the moment. Oh btw, one of the things he likes to say when we break off like now is that he needs to "go try and fix things by himself" which.. obviously just means.. not deal with it. This last time though one thing he said was, "I just feel like something drastic has to happen. It's too easy to not change."
Similar story to many here.
Firstly, I consider myself a secure and have tested secure several times. However this relationship has definitely sprung me more into the FA category. I have had 4 secure relationships in the past and remain friendly with most of them. But this entire thing (relationship with an FA who leans more on the DA end) has put me thru a loop bigtime. If it wasn't for myself having a psychology background and realizing it wasn't really *me* persay causing a lot of the issues, I would have left long ago... But I guess I kept thinking this person would try to fix himself, as he has admitted and is fully aware these are his issues. It just isn't enough, at least not right now.
Started dating a guy, Ben, an FA, nearly 3 years ago. We connected really well over text. Both only children, and just a similar view of the world, humor, etc. We talked a ton leading up to meeting. When we met in person, I was a little thrown off.. the conversation was a bit shallow but still very respectful.. but that wasn't a red flag compared to what was to come.
He wouldn't let me come back to his place or come over to mine for quite a long time. He scheduled our dates in public in short time periods, then had to escape. When we did finally start sleeping together, the sex was very disconnected, like he became another person, wouldn't look me in the eyes at all. He asked me to leave right after a couple times at first which was puzzling and painful. I asked about it and he was very apologetic, trying to explain that it was hard for him to self-regulate with someone else there. Could not handle sleepovers for a long time. I understood and accepted it.
As time went on, the problem became centered around him not including me in his life. I have still after 3 years never met his parents nor do they know I exist. When going anywhere significant with him he would take photos of himself only to send to family. That still didn't bother me. The not meeting family didn't bother me. What did bother me was him continuing to make it very clear his friends were his main priority. Planning trips only with them, doing thoughtful things for their birthdays or even their SO's birthdays and nothing for mine, I wasn't invited to his Friendsgiving dinner, I wasn't included basically ever... Very very slowly, as I vocalized that this bothered me, he did start to include me a bit.
The problem then turned into sex. Not only did he stop having sex with me, but the times I attempted to initiate.. which, were extremely few... he acted as if he was a cornered animal and literally had to run out of the room. As of today, we probably only have had sex 10 or less times, and nothing in the last year. And I know he is still using porn by himself. I asked about it. Note here that most of the time I would bring up an issue, in a non confrontational way, he would play dumb about it but acknowledge it and quickly change the subject. However, he said this had been a pattern with exes. He was seeing a therapist when I met him. He said his ex had sent him to the therapist because they weren't having sex. I thought it was curious but at the time that therapist told him it was because he wasn't attracted to her because he felt like he was a caretaker. At the time he and I were having sex albeit not very frequently and I didn't imagine it would become a problem between us since I am very independent.. there is no caretaker vibe. But now, I see. It was because she was expressing needs. Needs that he felt threatened to meet because he was afraid he couldn't meet his own. He also is completely unable to view a relationship as a team system. Very very separate, compartmentalized. Leading to resentment on both our ends. I would bring this up and he would understand, but these things are clearly so engrained.
He has a strained relationship with his mother. And is very afraid of her. She seems extremely cold. His parents lived apart almost their entire marriage and he normalized this to me. His mom is the avoidant. They split recently, the dad finally cheated and the mom is trying to get Ben on her side. It is fairly toxic. To make matters worse, he was sexually abused by a nanny as a child and never told any of his parents. At 8 years old. So, he has C-PTSD going on from that.
There have been times where I had enough and began to move on. One of those times, he noticed a man (guy friend of mine) sent me something on Venmo, and became extremely threatened by that, reaching out to me a LOT, and after we had not had sex for over 8 months, he was suddenly sending me very sexually explicit texts, dick pics, etc. When we finally met up in person we had sex, then when our "relationship" stabilized that side of him vanished again.
There have been times he discusses moving in together, marriage. Expressing he will need a lot of space. When he does sleep over at my place, he tends to need to spend time alone in the mornings for a long time in another room. He has said being at my place is scary for him. Lots of anxiety. He is ok for one night but its difficult for him to sleep and he tends to need to run in the morning. He has never even showered here. It scares him. I accepted it.
He started seeing a new therapist a few weeks ago. I helped him find this person. It was supposed to be couples therapy. I talked to the therapist on the phone first. He diagnosed Ben with C-PTSD and "Madonna whore syndrome", or at least said that was what it most likely was over the phone. Ben talked to the therapist next. Again, it was supposed to be couples therapy.. He told me that I could not be a part of it, because I would not want to hear what he was talking about, and it was private. I totally understand him wanting a safe space to talk about his sex abuse, and sex related issues. However I was disappointed I was being cut out of the therapy entirely because we cannot have any sort of conversation that involves any degree of emotional intimacy without him basically having an anxiety attack and needing to run away, so the therapy to me was going to be a space we could communicate in. Also, when he comes over, at least lately, since I think the therapy has sent him a bit into a weird headspace, but he has always been like this mostly- he is on his phone 90% of the time, and/or needs a movie or show to be on. He cannot be present. Things feel extremely heavy, he is so reluctant to share, and it just gets worse when we get closer. Two months ago he felt like he was losing me again, and he expressed that he felt abandoned, asking what was going on, and so forth, told me that he loved me (for the first time ever). After that verbal expression he freaked out and started distancing again.
On Thursday night, we went and met a couple friends of mine for some pizza and wine. Everything was fine, but he was still on edge from the conversation about me being cut out of therapy. He tried to sleep on the couch, and when I asked if he was ok, he reluctantly moved to the bed, still wearing his jeans and jacket. He had his hands clapsed on his chest like he was a corpse. It bothered me. I asked to talk, I said it felt like he was pulling away from me. I can't remember what he said, but it was rude, probably something like "I'm sorry I don't think about this relationship stuff like you do" implying its not important.. I do know he said something about why friendship is more important to him over relationships to which I asked, Am I not even a friend? Which he seemed puzzled by. and then I went on to bring up how we haven't had sex in over a year, asking what does he want, what is his goal (he said he doesn't know), that we are mid 30s and have discussed wanting a family but he's just pulling further and further away from me, how it feels like he doesn't care or respect me as a person when I have stated all of this is hurting me and he isn't working on it, that everything is centered all on him all of the time. He said he probably would not be able to have sex with me ever again. That he is in therapy but that he probably won't be able to change or doesn't understand how. That he wishes he could be like normal people. "If I could, don't you think I would?!?" Admitted that he parentalizes me and is scared of me, like he is of his Mom. He kept asking if we could not talk about it, that he "doesn't have the tools". I pushed. "When am I supposed to talk about it. You cut me out of therapy. You don't speak to me anymore barely over text unless it's some nonsensical joke photo.. is on his phone 247 in front of me or "watching a movie".." He agreed with all of it. He just kept saying "I wish I wasn't like this. I am broken." He pretty much shut down so I eventually rolled over and went to sleep.
In the morning we didn't say anything (happens often). He got up and left after we laid in silence for 2+ hours (he was on his phone). Later in the day, I texted him. I said I am sorry that I pushed to have that conversation last night. But I am glad we had it. Am I correct that you said you don't want to be in a relationship anymore (he said we should be friends). He responded that everything I said was fair and true. But that he won't be able to meet any of my needs. That he "can't even think" about ever getting married (despite the fact that he has said he wanted to before) or having a family. That he hopes we can be friends. I got upset and said it felt like he was giving up on us. He said something to the effect of that he would be willing to see his therapist WITH me but also said that it seems like so much to change when he is so broken, and that he doesn't want to keep doing this to me and it feels like he is ruining my life, and I deserve to be happy, etc. He also said he would "go to a couple sessions with me but only if I kept in mind he may not be the right person for me". I got fairly quiet.
Since then, I sent him a photo of our friend's new place that he responded to, and I noticed he forwarded me some kind of funny email to me last night at 10pm. I haven't responded. It is so much to think about, and I love this person so much. I do know that he is so good at compartmentalizing, that he doesn't feel much pain after breakups, or when he and I aren't talking.. that has only happened twice when he was very triggered about another man. A lot has happened since then to where the energy on this just got heavier so I can't imagine him getting triggered about losing me again.
I could follow up with his offer to see that therapist together. But, he is a sex therapist, not really versed in attachment styles at all. I'm not sure how far it would get. I'm a bit lost. I'm not sure what I am asking for here but sharing, and looking for support and advice I guess. I really do love Ben, and can see myself with him, but not like this. I think I need to not respond or reach out for a bit, and give the whole situation some space. He is fully in a freeze state right now, and I don't think he would even be able to think clearly yet, and I feel confused as well. It is truly a mess at the moment. Oh btw, one of the things he likes to say when we break off like now is that he needs to "go try and fix things by himself" which.. obviously just means.. not deal with it. This last time though one thing he said was, "I just feel like something drastic has to happen. It's too easy to not change."
