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Post by anne12 on Jun 9, 2020 5:18:46 GMT
We often do not only have one particular attatchmentstyle, but often a mix of different attatchment styles. It's all on a spectrum. People and other life experiences can push you more into one of the other attatchment styles. An attatchmentstyle is often not a stagnent thing. You've been diagnosed with a desorganised attatchmentstyle ? By whom ? In the same relationship you can move in and out of the different attatchment styles/patterns. So how can you know that you are acting out of a anxious ambivalent attatchment pattern or you are acting from a camuflaged desorganised pattern that looks like ap from the outside ? Is this what you are asking about ? jebkinnison.boards.net/thread/1188/attatchment-style-decription-relying-thetests |
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Post by anne12 on Jun 9, 2020 5:49:07 GMT
Okay Theres some healing threads in the general forum which maybe also can be usefull for you to read. About texting jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/948/starting-difficult-conversation-call-textUsing him for sex ? Have you asked, him what makes him say this ? (Isent that a wierd thing to say ?) If you are fa be aware of underdog/overdog dynamics, crossed boundaries, uncertainty-things that are not clear ect can be triggering for fa's. You write that he is busy and that you always have to come to his place - this is also an overdog/underdog dynamic. He is busy - but always being the one to initiate contact and arrange meeting up sounds draining unless you are okay with this and like to be in the masculine energy ? Theres a saying that if you are the one who has to take initiatives in the beginning of the relationship or you do it by you're own before the other person can get a change to arrange something, then you can count on that this will be the dynamic in your relationship (I know that he is busy and so are you) But what do you want in a relationship ? |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 9, 2020 6:11:17 GMT
@desertwalker, you sound FA, and I strongly suspect he is FA as well which is both why you were initially attracted to him (not consciously, of course) and why you've found this relationship so confusing. You have been consciously saying you want to act secure and be invested, though he doesn't sound fully trusting / present / secure (ie may not be a safe, secure partner) and you're also getting feedback that you're acting avoidant yet also swinging into anxious.
It's totally normal for FA to swing either way depending on their choice in partner. Dating someone more avoidant than you may trigger you anxious and someone more anxious than you may trigger avoidant. That's very common. It doesn't mean you've switched overall attachment style unless you have learned to really trust other people (AP tend to trust others and distrust self, FA distrust both others and self).
Why is it important to you in this situation to know if your response is more anxious-leaning? What difference would it make to you to think of yourself as AP in this case, versus FA?
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Post by anne12 on Jun 9, 2020 6:57:12 GMT
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Post by alexandra on Jun 9, 2020 7:56:04 GMT
Sometimes, I feel stupid for letting myself stay in this sort of unhealthy relationship. Other times I don't want to leave to "prove" to myself that I can overcome my FA tendencies. Good, this is where I was hoping we'd get to 
So, one of the tricks with insecure attachment is this: you can't prove to yourself that you can overcome your insecure tendencies in a romantic relationship if your partner is also emotionally unhealthy (for the sake of this conversation, let's define emotionally unhealthy as unaware / in denial of one's own insecure attachment style). Thinking you can have a healthy relationship, to prove to yourself you're doing better, with someone else who is not already working through their own issues, is a fallacy. It is true, that if you have insecure attachment issues, that sometimes you are going to trigger yourself due to the dysfunctional thought patterns you are still working through (and that's nothing to feel bad about, it sounds like you are aware and have been working to manage them, even if you haven't healed enough yet to earn secure). That's coming from projection from earlier in life (probably not consciously) and will happen no matter who your partner is -- since it's not about the other person and it's internal, though, that is your responsibility as a mature adult to recognize and manage, as you've been doing. However, your choice of partner is still important when you are trying to earn secure (and overcome FA tendencies) because insecure partners will also trigger you additionally in ways more secure partners wouldn't. This is because an unaware insecure partner is going to be inconsistent (ie words won't always match actions won't always match feelings, for example... so, your partner saying he wants to spend more time with you but then repeatedly canceling and not talking to you for a few days instead). That inconsistency, which looks different for AP than for DA than for FA but is still present somehow in each style, can trigger anyone (even a secure!).
What the secure thing to do here isn't staying to prove to yourself you can overcome your triggers (because some of them are legitimately your own FA issues that you'd have with anyone, but some are legitimately due to his behavior). It's actually deciding whether or not this relationship makes you happy, as is and assuming he will never change (because you are dating the him in front of you, not the potential and better version of him, AND he doesn't want to change anyway... most unaware insecure people don't want to change). If it isn't fulfilling your needs, then you should talk to him about it, directly communicate, so he has a chance to respond and you can see if anything improves (and if the improvements are consistent over time), and so he doesn't get blind-sided by you either ghosting or just ending it without warning. That may be scary, it sounds like if you try to have a conversation he may shut down (as avoidants tend to do when triggered by emotional and intimacy issues), but the secure thing to do is still try to have the conversation. Anyway, then you look at his response, observe if anything is better, consider if you feel you two really are compatible or not, and then decide whether or not this relationship works for you.
But I will give you a hint. "This is just eating me alive." is not generally a ringing endorsement of a happy and stable relationship.
Also, while he may be DA, since you've already kind of broken up and gotten back together, and because you are feeling anxious (which will make him respond avoidant) and he pulls you back when you get avoidant, I'd guess he's FA but you're bringing out his avoidant side similar to how he's bringing out your anxious side.
Something else you should be on the lookout for: "I always hope that he initiates plans first." Have you communicated this to him? That you want more equal initiation? If you're just hoping and haven't said anything, it is part of your insecure attachment style patterns to break to expect him to mind read. That doesn't mean he'll step up... he may just say okay, do it once or twice, then go back to what's easier for him (letting you do the work), but then you have more information with which to decide if you're happy staying or not.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 9, 2020 8:21:33 GMT
For how long will he be this busy ?
Do you think that he is stressed out ?
Men who are stressed out by their work and other life circumstances do not get turned on by a woman's warmth. Stress in itself produces warmth/heat and then it is better if the women becomes a little withdrawal/"cold"... I've had to learn this in my own relationship - I'm only talking about typical gender differencies.
The different attatchment styles copes with stress in different ways.
How long have you been together ?
You have already talked about having children ? Who is going to take care of the children ? Have you talked about this ? When, where, living together or living together apart making babies ect ?
You can make a love vision each of you and then compare them and talk about them together - asking to have a good conversation as described in the "how to create a long lasting juicy relationship" - maybe when he is not as busy. Ask him when it will be a good time for him to talk ect
Making a deadline for how long you can tolerate how things are, can be helpful. Then you do not have to use so much energy thinking about it.
(Of course there is also a thread about deadlines 😉)
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Post by alexandra on Jun 9, 2020 9:00:13 GMT
[Another fear is that he's using me for instant gratification (i.e. sex, ego boost, etc.), which may be why he's not so keen one trying to pursue any kind of relationship past surface-level with me.] I don't think he's intentionally doing that. I think (and you actually are FA, I never have been, so feel free to disagree) that FA tend to be very reactive. This is due to a combination of factors: inconsistent and weak sense of self-identity, lack of good coping mechanisms and therefore wanting/needing distractions from the constant internal pain and/or struggle, and need for external validation due to lack of ability to self-regulate. So, combine that with the desire for a partner but the need to create ways to keep them at a safe distance, and you get someone who may care and may want to care deeply, but has too much in the way to attach properly. That doesn't mean he's using you for sex, but it may mean he doesn't know how to (or want to learn how to) relate in a healthy way. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 9, 2020 9:04:29 GMT
There is a gnawing feeling inside me, and I have been getting urges lately to revert back into my eating disorders as a coping mechanism. When this happens, I know that there is something truly bothering. I also think you need to take this really seriously and make sure you're putting yourself first in this. A relationship should be filling you up, not sending you backwards, especially in a direction that could threaten your physical health. Remember that a lot of eating disorders are about an unhealthy way to feel like you're regaining control. But to actually regain control, you need to trust yourself, otherwise it's just a bandaid to tolerate more pain that will eventually make everything much, much worse because no underlying issues were actually fixed by coping in that way. |
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Post by anne12 on Jun 9, 2020 9:09:57 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1864/deadlinesAnti depressants ? Please tell your therapist about your current relationship. Why does she want to give you anti depressants ? I can recommend that you try to work with the instinktive level (the reptile brain - fight-flight-freeze responses in therapy) They do this in SEtherapy. A lot of psykiatrists do not know how to work with the instinktive level and they prefere giving medicine as a way to cope. And it can be good but what about all the stuck survival energy underneath. Depression can be a kind of freeze state if we are talking "nerveus system language". When you are stressed out and keep going, going, going you can end up getting adrenal fatigue. Your adrenals sits on top of your kidneys and they can get burned out/dryed out like little raisins.. Your partners high risk work can give you a hint that he's also got some desorganised attatchment style as they often like to work in high risk positions where there is a lot of "action" and adrenaline. I would be worried too if I had a boyfriend working in a high risk position.
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Post by mrob on Jun 9, 2020 9:46:04 GMT
OP. That’s totally expected. Us FAs have the traits of DA and AP depending on the circumstance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 10:01:34 GMT
OP. That’s totally expected. Us FAs have the traits of DA and AP depending on the circumstance. Yea, I guess us FA's are like a swing-state 😅 |
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Post by kittygirl on Jun 9, 2020 14:33:35 GMT
@desertwalker wow...I see so so so much of myself in you. I'm also someone who has struggled with eating disorders and self harm as coping mechanisms (my emotions get SO INTENSE and I don't know how to deal with them-so I control the one thing I can...my body). One of my therapists once told me "The unfortunate thing about self harm is that it works" in other words, its a very effective strategy to dealing with intense emotions-albeit an extremely unhealthy one, which is why we resort back to them when we are stressed. We (people like us who have struggled with these issues) are never fully away from them even if we don't do them all the time. Please know-I was recently in a relationship where I too was starting to get VERY strong urges to resort to eating issues and self harm and this is a GIGANTIC INDICATOR that you are NOT getting your needs met (and so taking out the deep shame you feel on yourself. I get it believe me. At least that's how it was for me)! It won't get better if you ignore it and shove it down (that's how we get into these dark spaces in the first place). In all honesty you probably need to get out of this relationship or at the VERY least you need to figure out ways to voice yourself to him so that you don't internalize the issues and take it out on yourself. One thing I can tell you is it gets so much better if you can actually communicate with your partner (this has helped me tremendously with my own struggles) but just getting to that point can be so daunting.Please PLEASE feel free to message me directly about any of this stuff!
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Post by alexandra on Jun 9, 2020 18:22:19 GMT
I've learned to identify my triggers and detach the stress that come those specific triggers to sort of "un-condition" myself. This relationship is certainly triggering me to "indulge" back into my eating disorders, but I think what I can learn from this is finding a way to better manage my relationship stress. Perhaps, but I agree with kittygirl. I don't think this is necessarily about learning to better manage your stress, as you have tools and have worked with a therapist to do that thus far. This is about listening to your body warning you, and connecting better with yourself to heed it and respect yourself instead of compromising yourself. I think it's a huge, huge red flag on your own end that you haven't felt comfortable telling your therapist you've gotten back together with him, and you should pay attention to that and connect better with yourself to understand what it means. To this outsider, it looks like shame (that, as you said, you've again chosen an unhealthy situation) and fear because you know you'll hear something you don't want to in response so you're avoiding talking about it. Also, your posts are full of you trying to take the blame and put his needs first. It's very him-focused (you make excuses for him and question yourself excessively -- "am I crazy?") and you are looking to do the work for both of you, likely because you are pushed anxious and that's normal, but that's overfunctioning and won't fix the relationship. It'll just drain and exhaust you further. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 9, 2020 18:30:23 GMT
you need to figure out ways to voice yourself to him so that you don't internalize the issues and take it out on yourself. One thing I can tell you is it gets so much better if you can actually communicate with your partner (this has helped me tremendously with my own struggles) but just getting to that point can be so daunting. This 👍 |
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Post by anne12 on Jun 10, 2020 4:34:47 GMT
You can try write down all your concerns about the relationship. Facts: 1) his got a high risk job 2) his work schedule is unpredictable 3) I take the initiative to meet irl (95% of the time) 4) He doesn't want/like to text 5) He says that he doesn't like phonecalls 6) He says that I'm using him for sex 7) He is stressed out 8) He is going to have this type of job in the future also ? 9) His schedule predicts when we can be together 10) He doesn't like arguments 11) He has never worked on himself ? 12) He says he wants a family 13) His words and his actions doesn't add up/aline 14) If I stand still and don't pursue him, then the relationship fizeles out ? 15) He says I'm insecure 16) He says I worry too much 17) I don't know when we will see eachother nexttime 18) I worry that something bad will happen to him at work 19) My therapist can tell that I'm xxx even if I haven't told her what's going on in my life 20) My therapist suggests anti depressants 21) I can feel the urge to go back to my old coping (eating disorder) 22) He rejects my bids for connection 23) I am more concerned about what he wants than what I want 24) He tells me that he will call back, but he dosent 25) There can be Days and Weeks in between we meet 26) I feel uneasy in the relationship even if I know how to regulate my stress 27) I've got a gut feeling that something is OFF but I don't know if I can trust my gut jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1970/intuition28) I find it difficult to communicate my wants and needs in this relationship (and don't know how to) 29) I find it difficult to set boundaries in this relationship 30) There's an underdog/overdog dynamic going on in my relationship and I'm the underdog most of the time (is it changeable ?) 31) I don't know how to communicate with my boyfriend 32) There's a big agecap between us 33) This is my first relationship 34) We have broken up before because of .... What makes him unique: 1) ... My deal-breakers in a relationship: 1) 2) Ect.... My needs in a relationship: (examples) 1) predictability 2) That things are clear 3) That we can talk about our needs and wants 4) That I can feel safe in the relationship (so that I can open up and let myself be vounarble) 5) That my partner is my best friend 6) We both can take the initiative 7) That my partner is "masculine" so that I can be feminine? (Not by looks and old-fashioned gender roles) 8) That I can feel protected in my relationship 9) We got eachothers back 10) I want to finish my PhD before having kids (maybe a deal-breaker) 11) That an argument doesn't mean that the relationship will end 12) My boundaries gets respected |
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