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Post by cecilia on Jun 28, 2020 0:54:41 GMT
I will try to summarize this story that has been going on since December. After a 6-year long-distance relationship with someone I believe DA, I reconnected with a friend I hadn't seen in 15 years. I had feelings for him back in the days but it was not reciprocal. But we kept talking to each other every day until he cut off abruptly. Never knew what happened, and when I asked recently, he said he doesn't remember!
After exchanging for a few weeks, I suggested that we meet again, seeing the many similarities between us. In talking with him, I felt that he was still hurt from his last relationship, but he assured me that he had made the transition. It all came out afterwards: we spent a lot of time together, everything was fine, laughter, physical and emotional closeness, and a satisfying sex life. I met some of his family members and he met some of my friends. I had invited him to dinner with my parents but he thought it was too fast and I understood that. Then a few weeks later he found out that his ex had someone in his life. He was upset. I welcomed his grief and stayed but gave him space. Two weeks later, we had an emotional day when he told me at the end that he was ambivalent about continuing with me because he was confused. I welcomed him again and prepared myself to not be so close anymore. He wrote to me the same evening, then the next day, and the day after that, and so on. Every day we had contact during the lockdown. Then he became very distant in his messages. I questioned him, he told me he was concerned about his children, his work, cancelled holidays, and so on. When we saw each other again he finally told me that he no longer felt any momentum with me...It was difficult for me because throughout the confinement we were a support for each other and now that it was over, it was as if he was throwing me out. I tried to come back to the subject in person, by email and text messages. He responds only succinctly and avoids anything that refers to emotions (his and mine). Otherwise, he is loquacious about everything that concerns daily life, he even initiates contacts to ask me how I am enjoying my return to work, tells me about his actions on a subject we had talked about a lot, congratulates me for the work I did during the pandemic. I don't know what to think. I'm trying to go NC, but is this really the solution? I don't want to let him down... As you might guess, I'm AP/secure... Thank you in advance for your insights.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 28, 2020 2:01:55 GMT
Hi cecilia, whether or not he's FA (which is a possibility), all that's really important is he's not emotionally available. No matter what he said to get you to stick around, sounds like your first instinct was right that he's not over his ex. I don't think you need to worry about "letting him down," you just need to decide if staying in contact with him right now is holding you back from processing it and moving on. It sounds to me from what you wrote that the bigger issue for you with cutting it off is actually the reverse. You've come to appreciate his support and connection during the pandemic (which is reasonable) and will feel more lonely to not have it. You don't need to cut him out forever, but it's probably a good idea to take some time away for no contact while you get over it and don't feel like you need him for anything (including pandemic connection), and then revisit several weeks or months down the road if you truly value his friendship only with no other agenda for romantic possibilities. In general, I also feel like it's more likely for people with attachment issues to not be connected enough with themselves to realize they're on the rebound, as they have trouble processing things in a way that allows them to move forward as part of the insecure attachment style behavior patterns. Or, are seeking the distraction and high of a new connection to avoid the pain of the old one ending (which means they eventually have to mourn both the ex and the rebound!). |
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Post by mrob on Jun 28, 2020 5:45:41 GMT
In general, I also feel like it's more likely for people with attachment issues to not be connected enough with themselves to realize they're on the rebound, as they have trouble processing things in a way that allows them to move forward as part of the insecure attachment style behavior patterns. Or, are seeking the distraction and high of a new connection to avoid the pain of the old one ending (which means they eventually have to mourn both the ex and the rebound!). That’s my experience. |
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Post by cecilia on Jun 28, 2020 14:09:56 GMT
Thank you for your response Alexandra. You're right that the main aspect of his reaction is that he's emotionally unavailable. I believe that I don't move forward as long as he is easily accessible and I am too...But since I hate rejection, I feel bad to do it too. At the same time, he knows very well that I am available, that I have offered him my friendship and support in case of need. It's very true that it's perhaps a projection I'm making by saying that I'm cutting off his support...I'm the one who's in withdrawal from our communications. He doesn't seem to feel such a strong need to communicate with me, which has led him to no longer initiate exchanges in the last weeks before our discussion. I need to take a step back. Should I let him know I'm making this decision or should I let things go?
Thanks to you and mrob for your experience with what's going on around the rebound. I believe that rationally, he didn't know he was ready but as you explain, the distraction and the intensity of a new connection led him to get very involved with me...and reality caught up with him...It's hard to put things in perspective but you help me not to consider that everything comes from me, that I did, said, provoked something to reap this reaction that is completely at odds with his behaviour at the beginning of the relationship. But I always wonder: did he believe in what he was telling me? (he assures me that he did) Does he still see some good in me or has he completely changed his perception? So many ruminations for me without being able to have clear answers because he diverts them or answers them in a very succinct way...
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Post by alexandra on Jun 28, 2020 19:04:35 GMT
cecilia, I'm sure he did believe what he said at the time. And the question around how he views you... I'd say, if he's avoidant, his view of you completely depends on if he's deactivated in the moment or not. I've found that when I've dated FAs or had FA exes, their view of me is reactionary to how triggered they are and in which direction (anxious or avoidant), and it's had to little to do with me. So overall, they still generally care about me, but if they're in a deactivated state (which can last several weeks, one of my FA exes would average between 1 and 5 weeks when it happened, which it did repeatedly), they could say mean and contradictory things that they'd say the opposite of when reconnecting with themselves some time later. This is just something you need to accept and depersonalize if you choose to have an unaware FA in your life. When sorting things out in a situation like yours, yes, I did tell him I felt bad about our situation and would be going no contact for an indefinite period of time so I had space for myself, and to not take it to mean I didn't care about him but to also please respect it (prior to that, he was being terrible about respecting my boundaries when I said repeatedly I needed some space before we could be friends). I did say I would be blocking him for a while. This was important for me because it allowed me to stop obsessively checking my phone for any messages from him and stop being sad if I was or wasn't seeing them. Anyway, keep the conversation brief, though in my situation I needed to convince him it was the nicest thing he could do for me, so he felt like he was doing something heroic and didn't feel rejected, before he really respected it... I didn't know how long I'd need or if I'd ever want to be friends. I unblocked him about 7 months later after I'd done a lot of self work to get more secure (secure enough to deal with him, but it was still another 9 months before I was actually secure and no longer AP), and he was thrilled to hear from me.
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Post by cecilia on Jun 28, 2020 20:22:17 GMT
Thank you for these enlightening words and advice. I have to admit that one of the fears I have of taking a step back is that he might meet someone else...When we met for the last time, he told me that he was out of his depth, that he was confused, that he had zero self-esteem... and a few minutes later he said "I don't know how long I'm going to be like this, I can't ask you to wait and not know...and maybe I'll meet someone in a month and I'll be attracted to something new and decide to get involved"...I found that very difficult to receive. I don't know if it was a way for him to distance himself again. I have a feeling that he now finds it hard to be around me because I'm reflecting these issues to him. I do it less now because we have reduced our exchanges. At the same time, he turns to me to express how he feels about problems in his daily life...It's hard to follow!!!!
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Post by alexandra on Jun 28, 2020 22:00:24 GMT
cecilia, that sounds very FA. They feel too close, get overwhelmed, then try to downgrade you to keep you in their life not-too-close-and-not-too-far. And it's very AP to see that as potential to one day get back to the way things were. You are so much better off just seeing that this is how things really are, now that you know each other better, and do yourself a favor and give yourself time to get over it without illusions. It's not because of you, it would happen with anyone who wasn't naturally more avoidant than the FA. It's simply unhealthy all around.
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Post by amber on Jun 28, 2020 22:54:51 GMT
cecilia, that sounds very FA. They feel too close, get overwhelmed, then try to downgrade you to keep you in their life not-too-close-and-not-too-far. And it's very AP to see that as potential to one day get back to the way things were. You are so much better off just seeing that this is how things really are, now that you know each other better, and do yourself a favor and give yourself time to get over it without illusions. It's not because of you, it would happen with anyone who wasn't naturally more avoidant than the FA. It's simply unhealthy all around. So true. Me and my ex has some contact about a month ago and he was sending me daily texts in a very engaging friendly way. It seemed the distance created enough space for him to open himself up again, and texting is a comfortable way to communicate without too much intimacy. Of course this confused me and I started questioning his intentions and that part of me that is hopeful started to kick in. I ended up ignoring his last text as I could see where it was potentially headed |
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Post by cecilia on Jun 28, 2020 23:28:10 GMT
amber I'm really in the same situation! Our contacts have always been mostly by text messages. When we were "together" we talked on the phone and we saw each other. But with the pandemic and now that he has told me that he doesn't want to continue on a romantic path, we've come back to that mainly. And that's exactly what you're describing. For my part, every time he initiates a contact, it gives me hope that he wants to get closer...but the content is so superficial, I always end up being dissatisfied and angry when I close the app. As soon as I touch an emotion, everything closes down. He was very, very open about how he felt about his ex. How he couldn't understand how she could tell him that she had never been in a relationship like theirs and then end it. Are some FA people so hung up on their old relationships? It seems to me that he idealizes the person who left him...It must also be said that the mother of his children also left him. And he was often the one who was abandoned in his other relationships...I would love to hear your opinion, your feedback is so helpful, thank you!
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Post by cecilia on Jun 28, 2020 23:42:53 GMT
cecilia , that sounds very FA. They feel too close, get overwhelmed, then try to downgrade you to keep you in their life not-too-close-and-not-too-far. And it's very AP to see that as potential to one day get back to the way things were. You are so much better off just seeing that this is how things really are, now that you know each other better, and do yourself a favor and give yourself time to get over it without illusions. It's not because of you, it would happen with anyone who wasn't naturally more avoidant than the FA. It's simply unhealthy all around. I always have this tendency to tell myself that if it was someone better, prettier, more relaxed, things would have been different...but he tells me that it's nothing personalized...I think that the fact that he mentioned the possibility of meeting someone else quickly made me very insecure. ..I know that his issues can't be resolved so quickly but I am still troubled by the fact that another girl will benefit from his "possible" better ability to open up and be more available...I wish it had been me... |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 29, 2020 3:14:35 GMT
cecilia, also a normal AP response on your end. I'd highly recommend you browse around some of the other FA threads on this board, and some of the AP ones as well. There's a ton of discussion about the fallacy of assuming an insecure ex partner will just show up healthy and "fixed" in another relationship. Without awareness and a lot of work, it simply won't happen. Romantic relationships aren't what caused the insecure tendencies to develop and won't fix them for him. It's likely to be more of the same until he's in enough pain to dive into the process (which may also never happen). In regards to his past relationships, if he is indeed FA and always tends to get dumped, then he likely goes after DAs or more avoidant FAs who trigger him anxious and sticks around in less-than relationships until they end. The dynamic is different with FA-AP, and has been mentioned here already, pretty much looks just as you've been describing. Which is why we're recommending you bow out until you're over the relationship, or you'll end up stuck pining like he is for his ex... because you're both getting trapped in the same anxious-avoidant trap dynamic (except he's probably the anxious equivalent in his past relationships).
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Post by amber on Jun 29, 2020 3:50:39 GMT
amber I'm really in the same situation! Our contacts have always been mostly by text messages. When we were "together" we talked on the phone and we saw each other. But with the pandemic and now that he has told me that he doesn't want to continue on a romantic path, we've come back to that mainly. And that's exactly what you're describing. For my part, every time he initiates a contact, it gives me hope that he wants to get closer...but the content is so superficial, I always end up being dissatisfied and angry when I close the app. As soon as I touch an emotion, everything closes down. He was very, very open about how he felt about his ex. How he couldn't understand how she could tell him that she had never been in a relationship like theirs and then end it. Are some FA people so hung up on their old relationships? It seems to me that he idealizes the person who left him...It must also be said that the mother of his children also left him. And he was often the one who was abandoned in his other relationships...I would love to hear your opinion, your feedback is so helpful, thank you! im not sure if this is typical of all FA's, but my ex FA left most of his r/ships (he was more on the avoidant side though than anxious). his long term partner who was the mother of his kids left him but i think they only stayed together so long because they had children together. when he broke up with me he cited the reason being 'he didnt feel a strong enough connnection to me' and strangely enough this was the reason he ended it (all short term r/ships) with the other women he was with before me. so theres usually a pattern with FA's. i came to the conclusion that i did not want to be stuck in a cycle of hope and despair with the empty texting and feeling of disappointment when you dont get your needs met. you have to decide if thats what you want because that is boring and painful. |
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Post by serenity on Jun 30, 2020 22:43:08 GMT
cecilia , that sounds very FA. They feel too close, get overwhelmed, then try to downgrade you to keep you in their life not-too-close-and-not-too-far. And it's very AP to see that as potential to one day get back to the way things were. You are so much better off just seeing that this is how things really are, now that you know each other better, and do yourself a favor and give yourself time to get over it without illusions. It's not because of you, it would happen with anyone who wasn't naturally more avoidant than the FA. It's simply unhealthy all around. I always have this tendency to tell myself that if it was someone better, prettier, more relaxed, things would have been different...but he tells me that it's nothing personalized...I think that the fact that he mentioned the possibility of meeting someone else quickly made me very insecure. ..I know that his issues can't be resolved so quickly but I am still troubled by the fact that another girl will benefit from his "possible" better ability to open up and be more available...I wish it had been me... Hi cecilia, I just wanted to send you some good wishes and say I very much agree with the advice and perspectives offered on this thread so far. I wanted to add (and reinforce) that the period after being `discarded' by an avoidant right after the honeymoon phase is extremely hard, confusing and vulnerable time for you and most others who find themselves posting on this forum after that experience. You had a good relationship for a period of time and its natural to want it back. But from personal experiences and reading most, if not all accounts on this forum, you don't ever get the feeling of being loved and secure in that love back again. The most likely outcome from here on is this will now turn into a relationship/friendship based on intermittent reinforcement (at best). He will cycle back in the romantic or sexual sense sometimes if you allow it, but mainly you will be neglected, unsure where you stand, and your basic relationship needs for stability and security are unlikely to be met again. He is not intentionally trying to hurt you and likely has no real skills for changing his behaviour. But in spite of that, you will be harmed emotionally and mentally if you don't take the proper time now to heal via no contact. You need not see it as a permanent end necessarily, but rather taking space to transform your relationship and feelings. If you don't do this, I am certain that you will be subjected to the roller coaster of intermittent reinforcment, and I really hope you can find the strength to spare yourself the pain of that. Its a terrible, anxiety-inducing emotional and mental maze that keeps you addicted to the relationship while not really getting what you need very often. It takes a long time to recover when the end comes, and avoidants move on easily and are happy to look around for someone new whilst using you for your love and care. Being replaced is blindingly painful and traumatic when you've endured intermittent reinforcment for a long time. Please try also to appraise this relationship in terms of trust, rather than love for now. You love this person, and perhaps you will for a long time. But do you trust him? Do you trust him as the person closest to you, who won't let you down, and will be there for you through anything? If the answer is `no' then he is not a safe person to be your nearest and dearest. Please keep reminding yourself of that, and protect yourself the best you are able. Sending love and hugs <3 I know how much this sucks and I've been there. |
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Post by amber on Jun 30, 2020 22:51:38 GMT
I can attest to what serenity said as seven months post break up with my ex FA I am still in a lot of pain. It takes a really long time to recover. I have had some contact with my ex and each time I’m sure it sets me back somewhat. No contact is painful too but contact just sets up the cycle of hope/despair which for me is the worst ever pain.sometimes he is very nice in contact which makes me long for him even more and other times he can be a bit distant which is also horrible
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Post by Helsbells on Jul 1, 2020 8:44:55 GMT
alexandra I always have this tendency to tell myself that if it was someone better, prettier, more relaxed, things would have been different...but he tells me that it's nothing personalized...I think that the fact that he mentioned the possibility of meeting someone else quickly made me very insecure. ..I know that his issues can't be resolved so quickly but I am still troubled by the fact that another girl will benefit from his "possible" better ability to open up and be more available...I wish it had been me... Hi cecilia, I just wanted to send you some good wishes and say I very much agree with the advice and perspectives offered on this thread so far. I wanted to add (and reinforce) that the period after being `discarded' by an avoidant right after the honeymoon phase is extremely hard, confusing and vulnerable time for you and most others who find themselves posting on this forum after that experience. You had a good relationship for a period of time and its natural to want it back. But from personal experiences and reading most, if not all accounts on this forum, you don't ever get the feeling of being loved and secure in that love back again. The most likely outcome from here on is this will now turn into a relationship/friendship based on intermittent reinforcement (at best). He will cycle back in the romantic or sexual sense sometimes if you allow it, but mainly you will be neglected, unsure where you stand, and your basic relationship needs for stability and security are unlikely to be met again. He is not intentionally trying to hurt you and likely has no real skills for changing his behaviour. But in spite of that, you will be harmed emotionally and mentally if you don't take the proper time now to heal via no contact. You need not see it as a permanent end necessarily, but rather taking space to transform your relationship and feelings. If you don't do this, I am certain that you will be subjected to the roller coaster of intermittent reinforcment, and I really hope you can find the strength to spare yourself the pain of that. Its a terrible, anxiety-inducing emotional and mental maze that keeps you addicted to the relationship while not really getting what you need very often. It takes a long time to recover when the end comes, and avoidants move on easily and are happy to look around for someone new whilst using you for your love and care. Being replaced is blindingly painful and traumatic when you've endured intermittent reinforcment for a long time. Please try also to appraise this relationship in terms of trust, rather than love for now. You love this person, and perhaps you will for a long time. But do you trust him? Do you trust him as the person closest to you, who won't let you down, and will be there for you through anything? If the answer is `no' then he is not a safe person to be your nearest and dearest. Please keep reminding yourself of that, and protect yourself the best you are able. Sending love and hugs <3 I know how much this sucks and I've been there. Beautifully explained serenity. This was my experience to a tee. Still hurting and healing. |
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