Cerebral narcissist: Intimacy and sex

This sounds like a slippery slope. No one has to outsmart anyone, and trying to manipulate a narcissist will backfire. I’ve only done it in a job setting, where I have to get work done. I wouldn’t attempt it in a personal relationship. It will not yield “intimacy”, it will only exhaust you. Take care of you is my best advice.

Hi annieb and alexandra. Thanks for your replies! I see your points and agree with you, but since I prefer not to quit my marriage I’m still trying to figure out how I can get more of my needs being satisfied.

Most likely you’re 100% right, alexandra. I’ll re-read your comments a couple of times again to really integrate your message, including the part of therapy. Thanks to a therapist I already feel much more confident, but I should try to still become less dependent. Really sad there is nothing else I could do.

Thanks alexandra. Don’t worry, I understand.
The most difficult part is to accept no longer to seek “support” from my wife. If I’d quit my marriage I would have to start all over again, and find good solutions for the kids. I’ll think about it and will also reflect about seeking specific help or coaching from a therapist.

Hi AM,
I see your point. I’m just struggling to put everything I have now aside so that I can move on and start over again. Furthermore, and even more important: my 2 kids need two parents around to get everything (hobbies and so) organised.

Opening up my marriage could be a solution, though my wife said that she’s not open for that and I would have to leave the house, or maybe waiting 8 years until my kids are old enough to stand on their own feet.

I’ve been trying to improve the situation for so many years, including going to a therapist (best thing I have ever done, in combination with taking a small dose of medicine to reduce my anxiety I’m more secure now), going to couple’s therapy for many times (was very interesting; many things I can say about this, we did connect better, but in the end my wife said she didn’t see any progress at all, or she continued to blame me for everything (really)) and reading many books.
Now I’m no longer the nice guy doing everything in the hope of getting attention, but that means as well that we rarely connect anymore.

My wife’s love languages are Words of Affirmation and Quality Time (= paying attention to her), mine are Acts of Service and
Physical Touch. Maybe I’ve been too needy in the past, but there is no real Physical Touch anymore, even when I try to sincerely pay attention to her (as long as she s not blaming me or talking bad about my family, ‘cause I can’t support that anymore).

Contrary to most books I recently read part of the book of Sam Vaknin, who believes you can come to an agreement with the narcissist. See e.g. yourlifelifter.com/2015/07/27/how-do-i-manipulate-a-narcissist/amp/
I was unsuccessfully looking for some discussions on this theory, but I’m afraid Alexandra is right to say that narcissist will always twist their stories so that they don’t have to do whatever they don’t like to do.

Maybe I should indeed only focus on how I can gradually leave this marriage or find a way to “independently” live together for some more years.

And to come back on the couple’s therapy: one of these was based on Emotionally Focused Therapy. It was nice to learn about our core inner self (my wife said that behind the image she is very insecure) and about patterns created by interactions within a relationship. Though, it was difficult to come to structural changes. I had invited the therapist a couple of times to define a manual or some ground rules for both of us. I believe that too many conflicts in our relationship are linked to the differences between the two of us. When I get too insecure or critical, my wife gets into a DA defence mechanism, and visa versa.
For one reason or another, my wife can’t accept my family, they are never good enough. No problem when my wife or the kids are not in the picture, but as soon as my kids are invited to stay over at my moms, my wife starts fighting again. She also finds a reason why my kids shouldn’t go there, but none of them seem valid to me. Not sure why actually.
I wish I could just get a manual on what to do when confronted with our differences or with key issues. Same with regards to intimacy, both real or fake.

Narcissists can manipulate the therapist also, so I’m not surprised that they didn’t pick up on it. From what I’ve heard going to couples with a narcissist only puts you in a stronghold of the existing pattern.

I hear you in her adoration and love of the children and yet expecting her needs met through them - then being an extension of her. I think you are spot on with that. This reminds me very much of my mom and how she was. There is some literature out there, mainly self help books for adult children.

My only advice would be to hug and love and hug your children, too, so that they have another source of it and they will know the difference in time.

Other than that you seem to be at wits and in this marriage and from the sound of it it’s justified. From now on, focus on you and your children. Is divorce an option? I would look into my options and talk to a lawyer. You’re never goin got turn her into a wife you want and most people can’t live with narcs it they become their former shells. And as much as you want to be there for your children you can’t really be a “shell”. You need to be you and get back to you. Can you do that in this marriage. I would consult individual therapy from now on to figure this out.

All narcissists are very fragile and sensitive. The pathology of the personality disorder is basically projecting a fake ego to protect the destroyed child inside at all costs, but because it's pathological it ends up that there's nothing left under the fake ego... the real identity of the person was lost and traded for the protection of the narcissistic persona. They literally stopped emotionally maturing and evolving at whatever age they developed the personality disorder.

The program you hope for doesn't exist as it would require the cooperation and commitment of both people to work. As a narcissistic has no empathy for other people and sees them all as extensions of self versus independent beings, they'll just never consistently go along with it.

You can never control what she's saying about you or anyone else, because you can never be around 24/7 to do so. She'll have more opportunity to speak badly of others, this is true, and along with the divorce will come her preparing a smear campaign against you (especially for custody, and generally to make her seem like the victim to save face in the divorce and garner sympathy from others). Talking to a therapist, and probably a lawyer, in advance of making any decisions like this will be a good idea so you can prepare if that's the route you're taking. I don't want to tell you what decision you should make about your relationship, but I support anyone leaving partners with NPD as long as they can do so safely. I'd also find a therapist at this point to ask how to limit the fallout to your kids from things as simple as when she complains and character assassinates others to her potentially wanting full custody which will screw them up (narcissists do a lot of emotional damage to their kids / supply).

I think you're getting somewhere but a rough road is still ahead. A rough road comes with improvement after though, while staying will be more of the same forever, more abuse for you and the kids to have to work through later.