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Post by pickles88 on Sept 5, 2020 2:32:38 GMT
Hello internet friends! I’m addressing as friends because of the genuine supportive feedback that’s been given on here  I stumble upon this site by accident and read pretty much all of this posts on here. It has helped me tremendously in terms of discovering myself and why none of my relationships worked out-including the last one. I’ve since discovered that I’m AP (text book!!) and looking back-most if my relationship since my divorce have been with FA. I’m writing to get your thoughts on my latest relationship. Sorry it’s long! But I think the background will help. Thank you reading. Me: I’m 45f; was with my ex husband for 20years. He: 48; met at work 18 years. He never had a handful of relationship since college. Longest was with college gf- broke up because she wanted to get married. He wasn’t ready. Then a 5year affair-she eventually went back to her husband. Then only 2 other relationship after that only lasting 4-5 months then he would break it off. I asked why but he said “no reason, I don’t really remember. Both were good girls” Background: We hung out with a group of friends for first five years at work- everyday for lunch and sometimes we all go for Hh. (very platonic as I was madly in love with my ex at the time). More of an annoying older brother and sister relationship. Even though throughout the years we all went to different companies we all would occasionally get together for lunch/HH until now. He and I started to get romantic about Jan/feb of this year. I’m his first relationship in about 10 years. Yes-10 years with not even a dare. We see each, stay over other every weekend Fri.-Sunday or Sat-Sun. He was Very attentive for first 2-ish months. Very much into touching, pda, amazing sex life-we were like teenagers. I had to Sometimes curb his pda as it made me uncomfortable considering I’m mid 50s. I met his friends, boss. Then pandemic came. He pulled back. I “chased”. We had a 2-hour Phone call after 3-4 days of silence at end of March/April. He apologized for his aloofness and cold/distance behaviors. Said he hasn’t dated in 10 years and not used to having someone round. At the end of the call-said glad that I called to talk it out and understand that he needs to work on his communication skills. Things were great until end of Memorial weekend. I took some days off of work and asked if he would like for me to come thu-mon (we had a friends lunch to go to on Monday). He said “why don’t you come Sun and we can go to the lunch Monday”. I immediately asked if 4 days is too much for him. He said “yes”. I was hurt. I couldn’t understand (at the time), why wouldn’t he want to spend more time together. Too much? But we just started dating?? Monday we’re at the lunch-an acquaintance asked “how did you meet your gf” He immediately said “not gf yet”. I was beyond hurt. On the car ride home I straight asked what he meant by that and where he sees this relationship going. He said he’s not sure he can do serious right now, would like something casual because that’s all he’s capable of. I went home. He called/texted after 3 day’s of minimal texting to see if I was coming over. Like an idiot- I did. Didn’t really bring anything up. We had a great time. Comes July 4th- he wanted to be alone. Said we been seeing too much of each other and needed a break. I was again hurt and this time freaked out. We had another 2hr phone call. Said he can’t do serious right now, doesn’t see us long term, while he enjoys being with me there’s no spark and that he made up his mind and it’s not going to change. I said ok-I don’t want a Fwb or casual. Please put my things in a box and I’ll pick it up in a couple of days. I pick it up from his place and as I was leaving he said that’s it? We ended in bed and talking afterwards. It was the first time he was vulnerable. Said he thought he wanted relationship and companionship. But not sure if he’s capable since none of his relationships worked out (and doesn’t want to get hurt again), all of mine sucked and from what he hears-dating is horrendous. I said ok- let’s take it at your pace. I know I can be intense at times. We went back to our routine for another month or so. He called and talked a lot more. During our last phone call I said I bought a gift for you- it’s a surprised. He called 3 day’s later and said “ I want to stop dating. I don’t want to do this anymore. You buying gifts and all. It’s too serious for me. It gave me anxiety for the last few day’s”. I cried, begged,pleaded, said we change Fwb(so embarrassing to write this now!) He said being with me made him happy but something is missing, he should be feeling something more by now, there’s no spark/chemistry and I’m not the one. Being with me the last few months “sparked” something in him to want to go out there and find the one. And being with me and me with him will delayed in ya getting what we really want. I went NC for a few weeks. Then I contacted. He was receptive. We text quite a bit and had an 1hr+ phone call. Then he pulled back. I yelled and sent him a long email basically saying “stop putting your walls up, you pushed everyone who cared for you away. Get your head out of the sand. We did have chemistry-that you were happy and felt something in a long time and were scared shitless!” He blocked on me that night but I got a miss call from him 3 day’s later. I called back but am still block. Why would he called then block me? My questions: was he really not into me or FA? If FA, is there a friendly way to bring it up as I don’t think he’s aware. Deep down I do want to get back. Is there a chance as he blocked me? Forget about it as he’s done/completely checked out? |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 5, 2020 17:03:31 GMT
Hi pickles88, I'm sorry you're in this painful situation. But you two are acting out the typical FA/AP dance, same patterns that you'll see in posts here over and over, and he is so deeply FA that it will keep happening in a predictable textbook way if you keep holding on and anxiously engaging. From your post, I don't see a possible romantic relationship here, and you will cause yourself a lot less pain to move on. First, he's outright told you that he does not want a relationship multiple times. Second, he is not capable of a relationship because he is not emotionally available and has never addressed his issues -- that has absolutely nothing to do with you. He was seemingly open to you at first because the sexual attraction in a brand new situation was enough for him to temporarily ignore his fears and issues. After a short honeymoon period, it's common for attachment issues on both sides to come up and revert the dynamic back to one of these anxious-avoidant dances indefinitely. You can see this has nothing to do with you in his dating history. He only stays interested in unavailable partners. His long-term relationship was with a married woman. He fled from his relationship when he was younger because she wanted commitment and he wasn't ready. 30 years later, he's still not ready. His other relationships didn't last more than 4-5 months and he can't explain why. I can -- he's not emotionally available and almost definitely did exactly what he's doing to you to those women assuming they were either AP, secure, or FA-pushed-anxious by his avoidance. That has nothing to do with you. He's now saying you made him want a relationship but only with "the one." Classic distancing tactic. Safer to dream about a fantasy one and push away any actual person. Very typical avoidant defense mechanism. There is no one, only fear and disassociation. His nervous system literally shuts down. That's part of avoidance. Deactivation when a partner gets too close, disconnecting from yourself. Getting numb until your nervous system has calmed back down, and not even being aware of doing so because it's been happening since childhood. There's nothing you can do about this, as he's in his late 40s, knows he has major issues, and does not actually desire to change no matter what he says. If he wanted to change, he'd have taken action to at any point in the last 30 years. In addition to this, we are in the middle of a traumatic pandemic, and I'd believe that he lacks coping mechanisms to handle that level of stress. This is an especially tough time on mental health and attachment for people with unaddressed issues. Avoidance, distraction, substance abuse, using a partner for distraction (whether sex addiction, casual sex, or love addiction), other addictive behaviors, etc... all unhealthy or dysfunctional coping mechanisms to deal with stress. So what can you do? You need to give yourself enough space so your over-activated AP nervous system calms down. Ride out the withdrawal, get back to your more rational self, mourn this relationship. But do not chase potential, that is a fantasy too. Becoming more secure is a process, and one he refuses to start, so there is no potential. But AP fall into this terrible trap, as I did for decades, of choosing the wrong partners. AP choose unavailable partners over and over due to their own securities and unavailability. But because AP desire love and relationships, they may not be aware that they too are unavailable!! Yet, when a more secure partner comes their way, AP will feel no longing (which is actually nervous system activation being confused for attraction) and therefore not interested. It's possible you got more AP after the loss of your long-term partner and still need to process those emotions more fully. It's also possible you were always AP but in a secure marriage for some time so working out your own issues didn't seem glaring or urgent and fell to the wayside. But if you want to be happier, you need to forget about this man and work on building your own self-esteem, getting serious about fully processing your own past trauma so you don't get stuck in anxiety, and probably exploring therapy to help you do these things if you haven't done that already. Good luck in your decision, but I strongly recommend you listen to what this man says he wants and forget about him. If you truly want a real relationship, you need to choose a partner who wants the same and who has aligned words and actions. Someone saying I want a relationship, but with some imaginary other person who isn't you, doesn't actually want that. Red flag, in totally contradictory words and actions. But one you need to listen to. |
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Post by pickles88 on Sept 5, 2020 20:10:52 GMT
Hello Alexandra,
Thank you! Thank you!
I can’t thank you enough for your reply and words of wisdom. I gave me chills as I was reading it but also had a calming effect at the same time ( not sure if that makes sense!!)
And as you mentioned- I’m classic AP (a little on the extreme side)
Now looking back- All my past relationships have been with FA. And for some strange reason I was immensely attracted to them even though throughout the relationship it was painful and more crying than laughing. I only discovered about attachment theory recently and been doing a lot of reading and reflecting. I’m now working with a therapist to manage my anxiety and the need to act batshit crazy when I get the feeling someone is pulling away. Wish I had know about attachment theory years ago. Would’ve saved me a lot of “whys” and tears.
I knew he had issues coming into the romantic relationship but was thinking that he’s now changed.
Before we got romantically involved (before I discovered attachment theory) we were friends and he had then expressed how lonely he is and it’s been 10 years since last gf-it’s time he start dating again.
His mom has been divorced 3x, the last one really broke her and as he puts it “she never recovered from that and was never the same” (he was in high school when this happened). You’re spot on with drug abuse- he smokes weed from the time he wakes up to the time he goes to sleep since high school.
Over all he is a very kind, caring person to his friends and family. I do feel bad for him and do want to help. How can I help him? Is it too late? Is there a way of letting him know about this theory without him shutting down? I believe it’s never too late to grown and learn about ones self.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 5, 2020 22:11:09 GMT
pickles88 Yes, chills and calming makes sense to me. I remember my AP mindset perfectly clearly, so when I write responses I know what's going to be triggering about them but is still important to hear, so I try to balance it with the whys that put it into bigger picture attachment theory. Happy if it helps. In regards to "helping" him, there are two aspects to this. One is, I agree, it's never too late to grow and learn. There are plenty of people on this board in their 30s, 40s, sometimes even beyond, looking to help themselves and get more secure, and some come back later to post about how the work paid off. (And if they are AP or anxious-leaning FA, they often found the boards by seeking answers to change their exes and were pointed back to working on themselves instead.) However. Earning secure is a very individually-driven journey that's completely motivated by one's self (usually due to being in too much pain not to change), and others cannot push someone onto that path. It's the leading a horse to water but can't force it to drink concept. It's very, very AP to want to stay other-focused, and want to help. All you can do is, if the person is receptive to hearing it, say, "have you ever heard of attachment theory? You may want to consider looking into it, as I found it really helped me understand issues I was struggle with better." And that's it. Never bring it up again unless they do. Exes, especially avoidant exes, are generally not open to hearing about self-improvement from their romantic attachment figures. They simply hear it as criticism unless they are truly ready to confront their issues ANYWAY, unrelated to the romantic relationship not working out. If they are ready on their own, perhaps they will one day research it and start their own work. Perhaps. Two is, this does not work when it's coming from a place of hoping the person fixes themselves so that you can improve your romantic relationship together. It is a boundary violation to approach it that way and have an agenda, and it never works. I've done this too, fantasized that if my avoidant ex could start to understand attachment theory like I was, we could work through it together and salvage our relationship. It just doesn't work unless two individuals are already on their journey separately, as you will always trigger each other, miscommunicate, and be on different pages if you have this agenda. The other person will know, feel pressured, shut down, as is their right. Again, this is a very individual journey. There is also a huge difference, as I mentioned, in saying something like, "I know I have issues and should really work on them and would like a relationship." and actually ACTING on that and starting self-work. Just because someone says they want it, does not mean they are actually open to it. It's like someone saying every day, I'll start that diet tomorrow, and never, ever does... they don't actually want to, but feel enough self-loathing to be verbally introspective without actually committing to or making any changes. While you thought he changed, he didn't. Plus, people don't just spontaneously change in emotional unavailability, it takes work and concerted effort. If he's numbing himself every day and you saw no work, no therapy, no self-help, nothing... he won't change. Just because someone has attachment issues doesn't make them a bad person. But it can make them a very bad partner. I'm sure he's got a lot of good qualities, but enduring 3 painful family divorces while not even out of high school yet? What a chaotic household! It's no wonder he's had a tough go of it, but he's been self-medicating all this time instead of facing and healing the trauma. I hope he one day tries to get through it, but it's not going to be on your timeline. I would recommend going through the AP and AP support sections of the board and learning more about what causes your own textbook AP behavior and some of the tips a couple of us have shared who have gotten to the other side and earned secure. I was textbook AP for most of my life, with a terrible dating track record, and it took about 2 years once I really got seriously started on earning secure (before I knew attachment theory or had the words to understand it's what I was doing). You're right that I wish I'd known about attachment theory and had a good therapist to help teach me much earlier than I did, as it would have stopped me from running in painful circles for so long. But it IS very possible to get to the other side and have less life stress, anxiety, depression, and better romantic (and other) relationships. So instead of doing the AP thing of staying distracted by being externally-focused on someone else, your ex in this case (and trying to "save" your ex because you wish someone would do that for you), talking to your therapist about learning to emotionally self-regulate instead of looking for others to do it for you and building self-acceptance are great next steps.
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Post by pickles88 on Sept 8, 2020 16:39:49 GMT
Hi!
There was a post here from Anne12- (I believe that is the poster’s name) with some great advice and links. I was busy this weekend and was looking forward to reading it and look up the links but her post is gone. Can someone tell me if poster deleted? Or if I deleted by mistake- is there an audit trail? Thanks!
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Post by anne12 on Sept 8, 2020 17:07:37 GMT
Sorry...I think I deleted my post. I'm trying to remember what I wrote. I agree with Alexandra. To me it looks like you havent been together for that long - you might be in the crushing phase or the next phase A crush lies in the instinktive part of your brain. You can override and become blind to your own deal-breakers and values, when you are having a crush on someone. It's like you are being a little manic/on drugs. If people step into a psychiatric hospital, when the are in the crushing phase,they will get diagnosed with bipolar disorder (the manic phase of bipolar) There's also the impact of Oxytocin ....depending on your age. It makes women bond faster. You can actually Bond before you even know if you like the Guy or not. Both AP's and FA's can move way too fast when they are starting to get to know a new person. What you can try to do is to regulate yourself with the watertank exercise. Use it twice a day so that you can learn it properly. The watertank exercise helps you to get up in your head. So that you can use the rationel part of your brain. So that you can get up on the balcony and not being so owerwhelmed by your feelings and your anxiety. It's the first regulating exercise in this thread: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ectWhen you have regulated yourself, you can ask yourself: What about me ? What do I want ? Him ? Why ? (Why regulates you and helps you to use- your logical part of your brain) Is there something else that I need instead of being with this man ? What could that be ? You also seem far ahead about being a couple. Have you given yourself enough time to get to know more about this guy ? The 7 lovephases: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25543/Also remember a crush can fizzle out quick. And people are allowed to change their mind. Ap combined with the feminine wants to commit within 1-3 months. But they often move too fast and they can be the one who ends the relationship later, because they haven't given themselves enough time to get to know the other person. But what about your deal-breakers and your values ? Is it okay for you to be with a guy who smokes weed all the time ? Do you want the same things in life ? jebkinnisonforum.com/post/24979/How to work with a rejection: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1925/work-rejection-4-attatchment-stylesIt could be the trouth that he can't remember why he broke up with his ex'es. He could have been in his threat responce survival mode - the reptile 🦎 part of his brain takes over and the he can't get acces to his prefrontal cortex. He could be in fight, flight, freeze mode. People who are in survival mode can't bond proberly because they are using all their energy trying to survive. Or he could be stoned because of the weed, so that he can't remember or he just dosent want to tell you. Don't chase! But you already know that. Every time you get the urge to chase/call him/want to go to his house ect., then pause, do the watertank exercise, ask yourself what /why ect., say "I choose to x, y, z", call a friend instead, write on this board, call your therapist, make a list of what you can do instead that is more nurishing to yourself, take your inner little girl by the hand and talk to her and comfort her. Give her a hug. It sounds like that you already know that you don't want to settle with breadcrumbs ? When you are compromising too much you are leaving yourself and it can drain your selfworth and your life energy and IT makes you close your heart. What happend to your 20 year long relationship ? Was he secure or ? Who broke up ? Sometimes we can walk around with some unfinished business from one of our past relationships - on the mental, the emotionel or on the instinktive level. When you date you have to be ready on the mental, on the emotionel and on the instinktive level - otherwise you will just keep running into the same type of unavailable partners again and again. Are you sure that you do not have some tiny shok trauma or maybe only 5 present desorganised attatchmentstyle also beside your ap style ? There's some healing threads in the general discussion forum. |
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Post by pickles88 on Sept 9, 2020 1:43:05 GMT
pickles88 Yes, chills and calming makes sense to me. I remember my AP mindset perfectly clearly, so when I write responses I know what's going to be triggering about them but is still important to hear, so I try to balance it with the whys that put it into bigger picture attachment theory. Happy if it helps. In regards to "helping" him, there are two aspects to this. One is, I agree, it's never too late to grow and learn. There are plenty of people on this board in their 30s, 40s, sometimes even beyond, looking to help themselves and get more secure, and some come back later to post about how the work paid off. (And if they are AP or anxious-leaning FA, they often found the boards by seeking answers to change their exes and were pointed back to working on themselves instead.) However. Earning secure is a very individually-driven journey that's completely motivated by one's self (usually due to being in too much pain not to change), and others cannot push someone onto that path. It's the leading a horse to water but can't force it to drink concept. It's very, very AP to want to stay other-focused, and want to help. All you can do is, if the person is receptive to hearing it, say, "have you ever heard of attachment theory? You may want to consider looking into it, as I found it really helped me understand issues I was struggle with better." And that's it. Never bring it up again unless they do. Exes, especially avoidant exes, are generally not open to hearing about self-improvement from their romantic attachment figures. They simply hear it as criticism unless they are truly ready to confront their issues ANYWAY, unrelated to the romantic relationship not working out. If they are ready on their own, perhaps they will one day research it and start their own work. Perhaps. Two is, this does not work when it's coming from a place of hoping the person fixes themselves so that you can improve your romantic relationship together. It is a boundary violation to approach it that way and have an agenda, and it never works. I've done this too, fantasized that if my avoidant ex could start to understand attachment theory like I was, we could work through it together and salvage our relationship. It just doesn't work unless two individuals are already on their journey separately, as you will always trigger each other, miscommunicate, and be on different pages if you have this agenda. The other person will know, feel pressured, shut down, as is their right. Again, this is a very individual journey. There is also a huge difference, as I mentioned, in saying something like, "I know I have issues and should really work on them and would like a relationship." and actually ACTING on that and starting self-work. Just because someone says they want it, does not mean they are actually open to it. It's like someone saying every day, I'll start that diet tomorrow, and never, ever does... they don't actually want to, but feel enough self-loathing to be verbally introspective without actually committing to or making any changes. While you thought he changed, he didn't. Plus, people don't just spontaneously change in emotional unavailability, it takes work and concerted effort. If he's numbing himself every day and you saw no work, no therapy, no self-help, nothing... he won't change. Just because someone has attachment issues doesn't make them a bad person. But it can make them a very bad partner. I'm sure he's got a lot of good qualities, but enduring 3 painful family divorces while not even out of high school yet? What a chaotic household! It's no wonder he's had a tough go of it, but he's been self-medicating all this time instead of facing and healing the trauma. I hope he one day tries to get through it, but it's not going to be on your timeline. I would recommend going through the AP and AP support sections of the board and learning more about what causes your own textbook AP behavior and some of the tips a couple of us have shared who have gotten to the other side and earned secure. I was textbook AP for most of my life, with a terrible dating track record, and it took about 2 years once I really got seriously started on earning secure (before I knew attachment theory or had the words to understand it's what I was doing). You're right that I wish I'd known about attachment theory and had a good therapist to help teach me much earlier than I did, as it would have stopped me from running in painful circles for so long. But it IS very possible to get to the other side and have less life stress, anxiety, depression, and better romantic (and other) relationships. So instead of doing the AP thing of staying distracted by being externally-focused on someone else, your ex in this case (and trying to "save" your ex because you wish someone would do that for you), talking to your therapist about learning to emotionally self-regulate instead of looking for others to do it for you and building self-acceptance are great next steps. Thank you for this. I’ve been going to therapy but now with focusing more on attachment theory. I’m now aware of AT and although it’s difficult to control how I feel at times, i can now rationalize, pause, think and not act batshit crazy with the calls/texting like I’ve done in my past relationships. It’s only been a little over a month and I know I have a long road ahead of me... |
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Post by pickles88 on Sept 9, 2020 2:06:46 GMT
Sorry...I think I deleted my post. I'm trying to remember what I wrote. I agree with Alexandra. To me it looks like you havent been together for that long - you might be in the crushing phase or the next phase A crush lies in the instinktive part of your brain. You can override and become blind to your own deal-breakers and values, when you are having a crush on someone. It's like you are being a little manic/on drugs. If people step into a psychiatric hospital, when the are in the crushing phase,they will get diagnosed with bipolar disorder (the manic phase of bipolar) Both AP's and FA's can move way too fast when they are starting to get to know a new person. What you can try to do is to regulate yourself with the watertank exercise. Use it twice a day so that you can learn it properly. The watertank exercise helps you to get up in your head. So that you can use the rationel part of your brain. So that you can get up on the balcony and not being so owerwhelmed by your feelings and your anxiety. It's the first regulating exercise in this thread: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ectWhen you have regulated yourself, you can ask yourself: What about me ? What do I want ? Him ? Why ? (Why regulates you and helps you to use- your logical part of your brain) Is there something else that I need instead of being with this man ? What could that be ? You also seem far ahead about being a couple. Have you given yourself enough time to get to know more about this guy ? The 7 lovephases: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25543/Also remember a crush can fizzle out quick. And people are allowed to change their mind. Ap combined with the feminine wants to commit within 1-3 months. But they often move too fast and they can be the one who ends the relationship later, because they haven't given themselves enough time to get to know the other person. But what about your deal-breakers and your values ? Is it okay for you to be with a guy who smokes weed all the time ? Do you want the same things in life ? jebkinnisonforum.com/post/24979/How to work with a rejection: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1925/work-rejection-4-attatchment-stylesIt could be the trouth that he can't remember why he broke up with his ex'es. He could have been in his threat responce survival mode - the reptile 🦎 part of his brain takes over and the he can't get asses to his prefrontal cortex. He could be in fight, flight, freeze mode. People who are in survival mode can't bond proberly because they are using all their energy trying to survive. Or he could be stoned because of the weed, so that he can't remember or he just dosent want to tell you. Don't chase! But you already know that. Every time you get the urge to chase/call him/want to go to his house ect., then pause, do the watertank exercise, ask yourself what /why ect., say "I choose to x, y, z", call a friend instead, write on this board, call your therapist, make a list of what you can do instead that is more nurishing to yourself, take your inner little girl by the hand and talk to her and comfort her. Give her a hug. It sounds like that you already know that you don't want to settle with breadcrumbs ? When you are compromising too much you are leaving yourself and it can drain your selfworth and your life energy and IT makes you close your heart. What happend to your 20 year long relationship ? Was he secure or ? Who broke up ? Sometimes we can walk around with some unfinished business from one of our past relationships - on the mental, the emotionel or on the instinktive level. When you date you have to be ready on the mental, on the emotionel and on the instinktive level - otherwise you will just keep running into the same type of unavailable partners again and again. Are you sure that you do not have some tiny shok trauma or maybe only 5 present desorganised attatchmentstyle also beside your ap style ? There's some healing threads in the general discussion forum. Thank you for reposting as it was a long response. I’ve visited the links you posted and it’s very helpful-although I will need to read it again a few more times! To answer some of your questions: We were not involved romantically for a long period of time but been friends for a while and close friends for the last year or so. And as platonic friends-We would discuss about his past relationships, his family, and his thoughts on dating/wanting a partner. Heck! I even tried to set him up with a single coworker at one point. That was why when we finally got together, I thought we both somewhat knew what we were getting into. True I knew he was very hurt from his affair but it was so long ago that he had gotten over it (this was all before I knew about attachment theory). Again, had I known about AT, I would’ve picked up the signs. asked the correct questions and more aware of my own attachment styles. I have no issues with him smoking. In terms of my relationship with my ex husband. I asked for the divorced. Last 4 years of our marriage was horrible. We argued constantly. Little things turned into big fights (in front of kids). Slept in separate rooms, barely talked to each other unless it was related to kids. As I mentioned before- I’ve been doing therapy and therapist thinks my AP side was activated when my ex husband cheated on me 5/6 months prior to our wedding. I somehow suppressed that until I couldn’t anymore. I understand that people can certainly change their mind at anytime. And I now know he is not the guy to date and need to take his words that he doesn’t want a relationship and move on.But I can’t help but wonder if it was really because we “don’t have chemistry or spark“, “I don’t have those feelings now when I should at this stage because I’ve had relationship before and I know what I should be feeling by now” or if it was FA side being activated to the point of completely shutting down? |
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Post by anne12 on Sept 9, 2020 2:28:43 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 9, 2020 10:24:41 GMT
Sorry...I think I deleted my post. I'm trying to remember what I wrote. I agree with Alexandra. To me it looks like you havent been together for that long - you might be in the crushing phase or the next phase A crush lies in the instinktive part of your brain. You can override and become blind to your own deal-breakers and values, when you are having a crush on someone. It's like you are being a little manic/on drugs. If people step into a psychiatric hospital, when the are in the crushing phase,they will get diagnosed with bipolar disorder (the manic phase of bipolar) Both AP's and FA's can move way too fast when they are starting to get to know a new person. What you can try to do is to regulate yourself with the watertank exercise. Use it twice a day so that you can learn it properly. The watertank exercise helps you to get up in your head. So that you can use the rationel part of your brain. So that you can get up on the balcony and not being so owerwhelmed by your feelings and your anxiety. It's the first regulating exercise in this thread: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ectWhen you have regulated yourself, you can ask yourself: What about me ? What do I want ? Him ? Why ? (Why regulates you and helps you to use- your logical part of your brain) Is there something else that I need instead of being with this man ? What could that be ? You also seem far ahead about being a couple. Have you given yourself enough time to get to know more about this guy ? The 7 lovephases: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25543/Also remember a crush can fizzle out quick. And people are allowed to change their mind. Ap combined with the feminine wants to commit within 1-3 months. But they often move too fast and they can be the one who ends the relationship later, because they haven't given themselves enough time to get to know the other person. But what about your deal-breakers and your values ? Is it okay for you to be with a guy who smokes weed all the time ? Do you want the same things in life ? jebkinnisonforum.com/post/24979/How to work with a rejection: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1925/work-rejection-4-attatchment-stylesIt could be the trouth that he can't remember why he broke up with his ex'es. He could have been in his threat responce survival mode - the reptile 🦎 part of his brain takes over and the he can't get asses to his prefrontal cortex. He could be in fight, flight, freeze mode. People who are in survival mode can't bond proberly because they are using all their energy trying to survive. Or he could be stoned because of the weed, so that he can't remember or he just dosent want to tell you. Don't chase! But you already know that. Every time you get the urge to chase/call him/want to go to his house ect., then pause, do the watertank exercise, ask yourself what /why ect., say "I choose to x, y, z", call a friend instead, write on this board, call your therapist, make a list of what you can do instead that is more nurishing to yourself, take your inner little girl by the hand and talk to her and comfort her. Give her a hug. It sounds like that you already know that you don't want to settle with breadcrumbs ? When you are compromising too much you are leaving yourself and it can drain your selfworth and your life energy and IT makes you close your heart. What happend to your 20 year long relationship ? Was he secure or ? Who broke up ? Sometimes we can walk around with some unfinished business from one of our past relationships - on the mental, the emotionel or on the instinktive level. When you date you have to be ready on the mental, on the emotionel and on the instinktive level - otherwise you will just keep running into the same type of unavailable partners again and again. Are you sure that you do not have some tiny shok trauma or maybe only 5 present desorganised attatchmentstyle also beside your ap style ? There's some healing threads in the general discussion forum. Thank you for reposting as it was a long response. I’ve visited the links you posted and it’s very helpful-although I will need to read it again a few more times! To answer some of your questions: We were not involved romantically for a long period of time but been friends for a while and close friends for the last year or so. And as platonic friends-We would discuss about his past relationships, his family, and his thoughts on dating/wanting a partner. Heck! I even tried to set him up with a single coworker at one point. That was why when we finally got together, I thought we both somewhat knew what we were getting into. True I knew he was very hurt from his affair but it was so long ago that he had gotten over it (this was all before I knew about attachment theory). Again, had I known about AT, I would’ve picked up the signs. asked the correct questions and more aware of my own attachment styles. I have no issues with him smoking. In terms of my relationship with my ex husband. I asked for the divorced. Last 4 years of our marriage was horrible. We argued constantly. Little things turned into big fights (in front of kids). Slept in separate rooms, barely talked to each other unless it was related to kids. As I mentioned before- I’ve been doing therapy and therapist thinks my AP side was activated when my ex husband cheated on me 5/6 months prior to our wedding. I somehow suppressed that until I couldn’t anymore. I understand that people can certainly change their mind at anytime. And I now know he is not the guy to date and need to take his words that he doesn’t want a relationship and move on.But I can’t help but wonder if it was really because we “don’t have chemistry or spark“, “I don’t have those feelings now when I should at this stage because I’ve had relationship before and I know what I should be feeling by now” or if it was FA side being activated to the point of completely shutting down? Hi there....as I was reading I so saw myself in your posts...the questions, the hope.....if there is anything I would recommend from my own story it is to not get caught up in “reading into” things...because you will never get answers that satisfy you. The whole spark thing is on his side....my brother used that same reason to break up with his girlfriend of 5 years, my ex....used a somewhat different flavor of the same line...which is....I just don’t feel this anymore. The key word in that is “I” (him) it is all coming from inside of him....likely has nothing to do with you, but AP attachment takes that as...what could I have done differently...what did I do wrong. As hard as it is to hear this...there is nothing you could have done...nothing. If you want....you can click my name then scroll back over my very painful history on this board...trying to understand a breakup, trying to figure my ex out, holding on to hope for almost 4 years. My ex got married....and believe me...it still at times baffles me that he moved so fast with someone else...but....that isn’t my business and I do believe I am way better off now as I am finally facing things and improving relationships with my parents, discovering and loving who I truly am and finally developing boundaries while taking things less personally. I am early 50s so I can attest to what Alexandra is saying. |
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Post by amber on Sept 25, 2020 21:31:51 GMT
I had a very similar experience to you with my ex FA. The classic “I don’t feel strongly enough for you anymore” after a very intense and loving honeymoon period. It’s written all over the boards here. Looking for “the one” or as my ex put it “looking for someone he can be open with on all levels”...as if something external creates that; actually that needs to come from within.
A strong r/ship history of being single for very long periods of time or short term r/ships is always a red flag and I won’t be getting involved with someone with a history like that unless they know why and have been in therapy for it.
He won’t change,like Alexandra said. Especially at his age.
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Post by serenity on Sept 27, 2020 0:05:39 GMT
Same experience here; The honeymoon period seems to be able to temporarily over ride an avoidant's attachment system. But then they either brutally dump their lover, or fade them out over time when the "love chemicals" wear off. An unaware avoidant will try to make their attachment issues everyone else's fault...they are not good enough, they don't make them feel a love-high anymore, there is surely someone " better" out there anyway. They will start to invent relationship conflicts or cause them, and blame the other person (whilst perhaps not mentioning them or refusing conflict resolution).
An aware avoidant in therapy can be more accountable. But the impulses to run and create distance when the relationship is close and going well are hard to overcome. I wouldn't put myself through such a relationship again.
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Post by annieb on Sept 27, 2020 17:42:43 GMT
Same experience here; The honeymoon period seems to be able to temporarily over ride an avoidant's attachment system. But then they either brutally dump their lover, or fade them out over time when the "love chemicals" wear off. An unaware avoidant will try to make their attachment issues everyone else's fault...they are not good enough, they don't make them feel a love-high anymore, there is surely someone " better" out there anyway. They will start to invent relationship conflicts or cause them, and blame the other person (whilst perhaps not mentioning them or refusing conflict resolution). An aware avoidant in therapy can be more accountable. But the impulses to run and create distance when the relationship is close and going well are hard to overcome. I wouldn't put myself through such a relationship again. I think the avoidant honey moon is their own validation seeking behavior. They exhibit this so that they can get you, but once they get you they don’t believe you. It’s a very narcissistic stance and it leaves you as a person completely out of the whole thing, you’re only there for their validation (in a sense their negative validation as revealed a little later). As the object of this love bombing it appeals to your ego, too. So it’s a double validation trap at the beginning. Once you stop seeking validation in men and relationships this part of you gets completely deactivated and then if it does get triggered, you know where it’s coming from. But in essence once you understand your own fragile ego and the validation it seeks, you can completely see through the lovebombing, and most likely will chuckle next time this sort of thing goes down. |
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Post by confusedwitch on Sept 27, 2020 19:01:10 GMT
I wrote almost exact same thing about my FA on my social media.
The sad truth is that even if he comes back, he will escape again. He is unable to be in a normal relationship and it won't change unless he starts working on his issues. There is no way though to force him to do that.
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Post by serenity on Sept 28, 2020 19:38:41 GMT
Same experience here; The honeymoon period seems to be able to temporarily over ride an avoidant's attachment system. But then they either brutally dump their lover, or fade them out over time when the "love chemicals" wear off. An unaware avoidant will try to make their attachment issues everyone else's fault...they are not good enough, they don't make them feel a love-high anymore, there is surely someone " better" out there anyway. They will start to invent relationship conflicts or cause them, and blame the other person (whilst perhaps not mentioning them or refusing conflict resolution). An aware avoidant in therapy can be more accountable. But the impulses to run and create distance when the relationship is close and going well are hard to overcome. I wouldn't put myself through such a relationship again. I think the avoidant honey moon is their own validation seeking behavior. They exhibit this so that they can get you, but once they get you they don’t believe you. It’s a very narcissistic stance and it leaves you as a person completely out of the whole thing, you’re only there for their validation (in a sense their negative validation as revealed a little later). As the object of this love bombing it appeals to your ego, too. So it’s a double validation trap at the beginning. Once you stop seeking validation in men and relationships this part of you gets completely deactivated and then if it does get triggered, you know where it’s coming from. But in essence once you understand your own fragile ego and the validation it seeks, you can completely see through the lovebombing, and most likely will chuckle next time this sort of thing goes down. I guess I usually associate love bombing with anxious attachment and Narcissism, rather than avoidance. One of the reason avoidants appealed to me is they go so slow, were happy to be friends for a long time before deciding to date, and don't love bomb. During the honeymoon they felt consistent and intense, but not full of excessive charm, clinginess, and flattery. When they say they love you, its a major act of vulnerability and happens very rarely. But you're right, I likely wanted a particular kind of validation. Not from the ego (I don't think?), but more from the wounded child within. Avoidants make something childlike and joyful light up in me, and were so difficult to detach from when the relationship became bad. Narcs have the same affect on me. Both of these types are people I will avoid in future. I learned about Narcs much younger, and steering clear was enough. Avoidants have been a new type, and I don't hate them the way I despise narcs. But I wouldn't date one ever again, now that I know what these relationships become. |
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