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Post by amber on Sept 28, 2020 21:43:17 GMT
I think the avoidant honey moon is their own validation seeking behavior. They exhibit this so that they can get you, but once they get you they don’t believe you. It’s a very narcissistic stance and it leaves you as a person completely out of the whole thing, you’re only there for their validation (in a sense their negative validation as revealed a little later). As the object of this love bombing it appeals to your ego, too. So it’s a double validation trap at the beginning. Once you stop seeking validation in men and relationships this part of you gets completely deactivated and then if it does get triggered, you know where it’s coming from. But in essence once you understand your own fragile ego and the validation it seeks, you can completely see through the lovebombing, and most likely will chuckle next time this sort of thing goes down. I guess I usually associate love bombing with anxious attachment and Narcissism, rather than avoidance. One of the reason avoidants appealed to me is they go so slow, were happy to be friends for a long time before deciding to date, and don't love bomb. During the honeymoon they felt consistent and intense, but not full of excessive charm, clinginess, and flattery. When they say they love you, its a major act of vulnerability and happens very rarely. But you're right, I likely wanted a particular kind of validation. Not from the ego (I don't think?), but more from the wounded child within. Avoidants make something childlike and joyful light up in me, and were so difficult to detach from when the relationship became bad. Narcs have the same affect on me. Both of these types are people I will avoid in future. I learned about Narcs much younger, and steering clear was enough. Avoidants have been a new type, and I don't hate them the way I despise narcs. But I wouldn't date one ever again, now that I know what these relationships become. Fearful avoidants definelty love bomb. At least some of them anyway. |
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Post by beyondconfused on Sept 29, 2020 1:44:15 GMT
I guess I usually associate love bombing with anxious attachment and Narcissism, rather than avoidance. One of the reason avoidants appealed to me is they go so slow, were happy to be friends for a long time before deciding to date, and don't love bomb. During the honeymoon they felt consistent and intense, but not full of excessive charm, clinginess, and flattery. When they say they love you, its a major act of vulnerability and happens very rarely. But you're right, I likely wanted a particular kind of validation. Not from the ego (I don't think?), but more from the wounded child within. Avoidants make something childlike and joyful light up in me, and were so difficult to detach from when the relationship became bad. Narcs have the same affect on me. Both of these types are people I will avoid in future. I learned about Narcs much younger, and steering clear was enough. Avoidants have been a new type, and I don't hate them the way I despise narcs. But I wouldn't date one ever again, now that I know what these relationships become. Fearful avoidants definelty love bomb. At least some of them anyway. They definitely can, at least mine did. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 29, 2020 2:24:38 GMT
That makes sense, with FA's able to attach anxiously and avoidantly.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 29, 2020 3:28:45 GMT
I've been loved bombed by FAs as well. I've found it's because they are very excited about getting new external validation at the beginning, and they mirror it back at you. Not consciously or intentionally, whereas I'd argue with narcs it's somewhat intentional.
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Post by annieb on Sept 29, 2020 15:11:13 GMT
I would say that love-bombing (and/or idealization for that matter), are typical to all insecure attachers. All narcissists are extreme avoidants, they are on the far end of the avoidance spectrum, but they can also exhibit preoccupied attachment. I myself categorize all of them, FA, DA, AP as avoidance, because to me it is all avoidance of the real self, and then the behaviors and feelings are different coping strategies. Including narcissism is a bizarro coping strategy.
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Post by annieb on Sept 29, 2020 15:15:04 GMT
I've been loved bombed by FAs as well. I've found it's because they are very excited about getting new external validation at the beginning, and they mirror it back at you. Not consciously or intentionally, whereas I'd argue with narcs it's somewhat intentional. Very interesting you say that. In retrospect the Narcissist love bombing was the tightest game so to speak, it was the most perfected. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 29, 2020 18:28:55 GMT
Just to clarify my own use of the term "Avoidant", I use it to mean when someone is presently attached to another in avoidant-mode...ie an FA or DA partner attached avoidantly to their partner. FA's in particular can swing anxious or avoidant depending on the circumstances, partner, stage of relationship etc. When two FA's attach romantically, they tend to polarise, with one FA attaching as the avoidant, and the other one as a more anxious partner. So in context of the relationship, the anxious FA is behaving "AP" , but still has the FA attachment style.
The comparison to Narcisism is interesting to me, and I have read there are plenty of narcissistic avoidants. I liked one of the Thai Gibson youtube tube videos where she compares DA's and Narcissists... She said in her professional experiences, Narcs are usually (though not always) anxious attachers , who are preoccupied with external validation. Whereas Avoidants don't require the external validation because they self regulate, and attach avoidantly. Anyway most of it rang true for me personally.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Sept 29, 2020 19:16:46 GMT
It appears grandiose narcissists are more akin to be D-A in nature, and covert/vulnerable narcissists are likely to be A-P in nature. www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/compassion-matters/201711/is-narcissism-shaped-attachment-style as an example of what can be found in relation to this. Makes sense when you think about codependency and a "Fawn" people pleaser type response as well. Like an F-A attracting one of these little numbers consistently, and thinking they are "the one", and whirlwinding into a relationship, mimicking parental conditions. |
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Post by pickles88 on Sept 30, 2020 3:46:31 GMT
Hello Friends-
An update since I last posted. He called 2x. 1x about 1.5 weeks apart. but I didn’t have my phone so I missed his calls. I called back the 2nd time and still block so (stupid me) used my work phone to text him. His response was “I butt dialed. I blocked you so it won’t happen again”. I was ok-whatever for a few days but then it’s eating at me for the last week or so. I can’t stop thinking about the whole situation again-does he miss me, wants to work things out?? I know from therapy and what’s written on this board Is that it’s not possible and I’m just going to end up even more hurt.
I’m not going to contact and I’m working with a therapist but it’s killing me on the inside. I’m just venting here.
Thank you for listening (reading)
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Post by alexandra on Sept 30, 2020 14:46:59 GMT
He called 2x. 1x about 1.5 weeks apart. but I didn’t have my phone so I missed his calls. I called back the 2nd time and still block so (stupid me) used my work phone to text him. His response was “I butt dialed. I blocked you so it won’t happen again”. I can’t stop thinking about the whole situation again-does he miss me, wants to work things out?? There's nothing to read into here, I'm sorry. Take him at his word, it was an accident and he blocked you again. And my take is, on his end, that's idiotic. If he doesn't want to contact you "by accident," then copy your number down elsewhere and delete it in his phone. So that leads me a bit to he is handling it by playing games, but it's incredibly disrespectful and immature. It certainly is not an indication of caring feelings or trying to work anything out. Glad you're finding other outlets to vent and working with your therapist on it! Eventually you'll process it enough to see he's wasting your time and you deserve better. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 1, 2020 22:49:38 GMT
Hello Friends- An update since I last posted. He called 2x. 1x about 1.5 weeks apart. but I didn’t have my phone so I missed his calls. I called back the 2nd time and still block so (stupid me) used my work phone to text him. His response was “I butt dialed. I blocked you so it won’t happen again”. I was ok-whatever for a few days but then it’s eating at me for the last week or so. I can’t stop thinking about the whole situation again-does he miss me, wants to work things out?? I know from therapy and what’s written on this board Is that it’s not possible and I’m just going to end up even more hurt. I’m not going to contact and I’m working with a therapist but it’s killing me on the inside. I’m just venting here. Thank you for listening (reading) Hugs Pickles. I hate that "bad energy in the air" feeling too. Especially when there's no need for it. I feel its likely something being triggered when I feel that way...it was always up to me to make things right with my moody, mentally disordered mother when I was kid. And if I didn't she was extremely violent and scary. I don't know if this is a childhood thing for you too, but if it is, this is a good opportunity to look for ways to self sooth and reassure yourself that you are safe, and his behaviour is not your fault (or responsibility). It may help to know that when Avoidants shut down and shut you out, it usually lasts a fair few months. My most recent ex would "split me black" when he was triggered by closeness, good times, or conflict. During splitting, he would demonise me and couldn't be reached. Its best to let them be when they're in that unreachable state. When reconnecting, everything has to be light and drawn out...conflict resolution is not generally possible for a long time (if at all)and retriggers them. I found this hard to do, but blocking all contact for a few months was best for me. I came out of it feeling more strong and intolerant of his harmful behaviours. Such a shame, these people we love can have a really beautiful side. But the love doesn't go both ways unless they get help and be accountable for their own mental health issues. Sending love. |
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Post by pickles88 on Nov 16, 2020 18:10:54 GMT
Hello friends-
This is more of a vent/ putting it out there than a question/seeking advice as I know what I did wrong. But all advice/suggestions are welcome.
I’m posting on here as I feel the AP in me is rearing it’s ugly head and I do not want to “chase” my FA. After my last post here. My ex reached out again- he found a some clothes of mine (again). The last 2 times he mailed them, this time we met up-i suggested. We met up few weeks ago, catching up, lots of bantering, just like old times. I didn’t bring up any of the stuff that had happened (although it was on my mind). We met up 2 more times for dinner and brunch.
Since then we’ve been texting and chatting on phone a quite a bit. But always have this gut feeling that he’s going to pull away again. And sure enough after a day of doing normal stuff- grocery shopping, fixing things around his house, errands etc... complete silence.
I know... all the red flags issues are still there-run, run and run faster.
I’ve read all your advice, tell myself it’s not good, will not go anywhere but my stupid a$$ can’t help it. Like I have no control.
It’s a long post and thank you for reading.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 16, 2020 18:30:51 GMT
I know what I did wrong. .... my stupid a$$ ... I have no control. So, here's what I think the problem is. Look at how you're describing yourself. The most negative narrative. Sure, what's happening with the ex is you're just repeating the pattern. Nothing to see there, it will rinse and repeat just as before if you continue to engage with him. But you absolutely do have control and full ability to take responsibility. To say you don't is the issue. You are the one who can choose to stay in a situation that's not good for you or not, even if it "feels" out of your control. It is not, and taking steps to not abandon yourself, take responsibility for your feelings and how they're trying to guide you (recognizing it's your attachment conditioning pattern), and becoming more confident in trusting yourself is how you make progress in earning secure from AP. Flip your narrative. Be kinder to yourself. This will be okay as long as you stop attacking yourself and have your own back  |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 17, 2020 14:52:45 GMT
I know what I did wrong. .... my stupid a$$ ... I have no control. So, here's what I think the problem is. Look at how you're describing yourself. The most negative narrative. Sure, what's happening with the ex is you're just repeating the pattern. Nothing to see there, it will rinse and repeat just as before if you continue to engage with him. But you absolutely do have control and full ability to take responsibility. To say you don't is the issue. You are the one who can choose to stay in a situation that's not good for you or not, even if it "feels" out of your control. It is not, and taking steps to not abandon yourself, take responsibility for your feelings and how they're trying to guide you (recognizing it's your attachment conditioning pattern), and becoming more confident in trusting yourself is how you make progress in earning secure from AP. Flip your narrative. Be kinder to yourself. This will be okay as long as you stop attacking yourself and have your own back Just to add....if you currently do not have a therapist, I highly recommend finding one. The negative self talk is usually a very hard thing to change for APs (or AP leaning FAs)...especially if you have been doing that for years/decades. A therapist will help to find ways of self love that work for you....my therapist from years ago started by having me change words such as always, never, must, need to....to more open/choice based words. Negative self talk also usually has a basis somewhere in your past...a therapist can help to unravel that. I wish you all the best. |
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Post by dhali on Nov 18, 2020 3:56:49 GMT
Re- the love bombing. Definitely an FA thing. The best I’ve been able to figure out is that it’s the fawn response (fight/flight/freeze/fawn). The honeymoon phase is all fawn. Then the zooming in on faults is the fight, followed by fawning to show that everything in their life is fine and the relationship is fine. Followed by fight, and then fawn. The definition of intermittent reenforcement. The trauma bond will likely be strong. And it finally ends in a crescendo of fault blaming and contempt for having never addressed any issues concerning them (never mind none have ever really been brought up).
And that’s how you get bombed.
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