abri
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by abri on Oct 17, 2020 21:04:36 GMT
Hi all, I am new here so not sure if I am posting in the right section. Nevertheless, my history with unavailable guys is not new.
I met this guy on a dating app (I am 34 and he is 39) and it took one month of basically everyday chatting before he wanted to meet (probably already a sign of something). Meanwhile he was very open on the fact that he wanted a relationship, asked many questions also about my priorities and we matched on many levels.
The first date was nice and he immediately asked for a second date the same week. It wasn't a mind-blowing date but at the end of it even if he wanted something more, there was just some general touching but it felt nice. He wrote me when he got home and the next day to know how I was doing. I wrote some time in the following days but his answers were very short and then he disappeared for a week. At that point I ask (not proud of this) if he just wants to be friends and he says that he is looking to find love but that we will for sure hear each other.
Since then, a 3 months long chatting relationship starts where we hear each other many times a week but meet only once in the three months for cuddling. He initiated most chatting, the dates and the physical touch during dates.
Then a new final date comes and it starts with very nice conversations and then ends up in bed (finally I was thinking). And instead while we are starting to be more intimate, he decides that he just wants cuddles and tells me of how lonely he feels with few friends and no girl. He can't give me more but tells me stories of times he got rejected by girls he likes. Or about that girl that left for another country. And if I think that insisting enough will get him somewhere. In between my sometimes colder (since at this point I am rather upset) and sweeter words to comfort him, he replies to my "why did you come into my bed then?" with a "because I like you" and of course says that I have a great personality and everything he would like in a girlfriend but he doesn't feel the spark due to his disillusionment (except for the women that don't want him apparently) but would like to stay friends. So, after some more depressive talking, he leaves and I am left feeling unworthy, so disgusting that he couldn't even have sex with me and stupid since there were infinite red flags on the way.
Now, could you help me understand what happened? Did he never like me physically and just tried because he liked my personality? Does he just like the women he can't have? Maybe both? What did he understand while we were in bed that he did not understand before to be this clear?
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Post by serenity on Oct 18, 2020 6:27:52 GMT
I think its a terrible idea to stay friends with someone who used you for sex, then "rejected you" and wants to use you for everything you offer "as a friend" (usually friend's with only his benefits) Maybe if you reconnected in a genuine way in a year or so, and if he brought enough to the table as a friend, then you could consider it. Its best to just cut off, even though it will likely hurt him. Its too blurry right now because he approached you romantically and seduced you whilst not thinking you're sparky enough for him, and that's neither friendship or a romance worth pursuing.
There are several kinds of guys i can think of, not mentally healthy ones, who approach women this way and gather a group of "smitten freinds" who couldn't cut themselves off after the rejection. I've heard terms used like "harem members" "hand maidens" in some literature.
You're a whole human, and if he rejected you, then he don't get you.
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alice
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Oct 19, 2020 22:00:42 GMT
I've picked up on this pattern, the part where someone just chats forever and ever. I have heard men complain about it as well, and I'm assuming it's unavailable people whether by attachment or in a relationship / marriage. I had one last spring who made up excuses not to have a mere phone conversation. It was off to me, so I just stopped initiating texts and he came back panicked and anxious. Essentially, I called it right. It doesn't help your situation now, but it was a valuable lesson for me years ago when I was hurt by someone who did this. I won't deal with it again from the start.
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Post by iz42 on Oct 19, 2020 22:08:35 GMT
Yeah, if he wanted to be your friend he should have treated you better. This sounds super erratic and if I were you I wouldn't feel like we had much of a basis for a friendship. The part where he decided not to have sex with you in the end is weird, but I think it's probably another sign of attachment/intimacy issues. There is a difference between going slow and talking in the beginning to get to know each other (and/or for covid safety reasons) and inconsistency where words don't match actions.
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abri
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by abri on Oct 21, 2020 18:14:58 GMT
There are several kinds of guys i can think of, not mentally healthy ones, who approach women this way and gather a group of "smitten freinds" who couldn't cut themselves off after the rejection. I've heard terms used like "harem members" "hand maidens" in some literature. That's very interesting. I didn't hear the terms but indeed he had a lot of girl friends for what he was mentioning. I've picked up on this pattern, the part where someone just chats forever and ever. I have heard men complain about it as well, and I'm assuming it's unavailable people whether by attachment or in a relationship / marriage. I had one last spring who made up excuses not to have a mere phone conversation. It was off to me, so I just stopped initiating texts and he came back panicked and anxious. Essentially, I called it right. It doesn't help your situation now, but it was a valuable lesson for me years ago when I was hurt by someone who did this. I won't deal with it again from the start. I have to admit that at different points in time I thought that he would have a girlfriend or something like that because things did not make sense. But seeing the desperation of the last night, I think he really felt lonely. Probably he postponed our first encounter so much, either because either chatting or physically (for what he could see from the app pictures) I did not fully convince him. At that point I should have already read between the lines. Yeah, if he wanted to be your friend he should have treated you better. This sounds super erratic and if I were you I wouldn't feel like we had much of a basis for a friendship. The part where he decided not to have sex with you in the end is weird, but I think it's probably another sign of attachment/intimacy issues. There is a difference between going slow and talking in the beginning to get to know each other (and/or for covid safety reasons) and inconsistency where words don't match actions. I think he really wasn't convinced from the beginning but for some reason couldn't let me go. Probably because he feels lonely and really wants someone. Still you do not wait until you're in bed together to do so unless you don't know what you want from your life.
From his apparent desire to connect and the tales about these beautiful women that did not reciprocate his feelings or of the perfect girl that lives on the other side of the world, I have a feeling that he could be a fearful-avoidant. But I might just be trying to justify his rejection. What do you all think? Why do these people waste also their time like this? Also, at what point in time should I have realized that he was not a good match? Because I have the tendency to justify inconsistent or weird behavior (ex. we don't meet for a month) and actually link it to the person being special, then I start seeing all the positive sides of their behavior (ex. all men want to meet immediately so there is no time for connecting on a deeper level instead like this, just chatting, we are seriously connecting). Or what type of behavior could shake them a bit from this state?
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 21, 2020 18:33:29 GMT
There are several kinds of guys i can think of, not mentally healthy ones, who approach women this way and gather a group of "smitten freinds" who couldn't cut themselves off after the rejection. I've heard terms used like "harem members" "hand maidens" in some literature. That's very interesting. I didn't hear the terms but indeed he had a lot of girl friends for what he was mentioning. I've picked up on this pattern, the part where someone just chats forever and ever. I have heard men complain about it as well, and I'm assuming it's unavailable people whether by attachment or in a relationship / marriage. I had one last spring who made up excuses not to have a mere phone conversation. It was off to me, so I just stopped initiating texts and he came back panicked and anxious. Essentially, I called it right. It doesn't help your situation now, but it was a valuable lesson for me years ago when I was hurt by someone who did this. I won't deal with it again from the start. I have to admit that at different points in time I thought that he would have a girlfriend or something like that because things did not make sense. But seeing the desperation of the last night, I think he really felt lonely. Probably he postponed our first encounter so much, either because either chatting or physically (for what he could see from the app pictures) I did not fully convince him. At that point I should have already read between the lines. Yeah, if he wanted to be your friend he should have treated you better. This sounds super erratic and if I were you I wouldn't feel like we had much of a basis for a friendship. The part where he decided not to have sex with you in the end is weird, but I think it's probably another sign of attachment/intimacy issues. There is a difference between going slow and talking in the beginning to get to know each other (and/or for covid safety reasons) and inconsistency where words don't match actions. I think he really wasn't convinced from the beginning but for some reason couldn't let me go. Probably because he feels lonely and really wants someone. Still you do not wait until you're in bed together to do so unless you don't know what you want from your life.
From his apparent desire to connect and the tales about these beautiful women that did not reciprocate his feelings or of the perfect girl that lives on the other side of the world, I have a feeling that he could be a fearful-avoidant. But I might just be trying to justify his rejection. What do you all think? Why do these people waste also their time like this? Also, at what point in time should I have realized that he was not a good match? Because I have the tendency to justify inconsistent or weird behavior (ex. we don't meet for a month) and actually link it to the person being special, then I start seeing all the positive sides of their behavior (ex. all men want to meet immediately so there is no time for connecting on a deeper level instead like this, just chatting, we are seriously connecting). Or what type of behavior could shake them a bit from this state?
I think you are going in the right direction, but with the wrong set of questions. Whether or not he is FA is not really the question here...the question is...why do you justify inconsistent/weird behavior? What do you get out of being with someone who does not contact you for a month? Where do you think, looking back over this scenario, that you could have questioned whether this was a suitable match. This is a great time to start looking more inward at what you truly wanted versus what actually happened and apply your own lessons learned going forward. Also, there are great online resources to learn more about attachment theory and the 4 attachment styles. One thing that you will learn is that attachment is not a state that someone can be shaken out of...it requires a lot of self work and an awareness that something needs to change. People have tried using attachment theory to try to get a desired outcome....been more patient, laid back, understanding, less emotional etc.....but that typically doesn’t work. The way to apply attachment theory is to learn more about yourself and what you may want to work on. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 21, 2020 18:40:04 GMT
From his apparent desire to connect and the tales about these beautiful women that did not reciprocate his feelings or of the perfect girl that lives on the other side of the world, I have a feeling that he could be a fearful-avoidant. This is always an enormous red flag. And if you've got low self-esteem and a tendency to swing anxious, you'll often see it as a challenge to be special. You're not special in this particular way -- the man's difficulty in his dating life is due to his own issues that existed before and will still exist after he meets you. (And, in general, isn't gender-specific. Women can be the same way.) You can't "shake" them from this state. Only they being truly ready to confront themselves can bring any change. You'll just end up being treated the same way as past partners until that happens. If you're seriously looking for a solid partner, never, ever justify inconsistent behavior. Only stay if you're looking to get stuck in a dynamic over and over (each pairing has their own version of the anxious-avoidant dance, but it's still the same patterns on repeat within the pairing -- AP/DA, AP/FA, DA/FA, FA/FA). The correct question isn't, why are guys wasting their own time acting this way and choosing the wrong partners, or being disrespectful and making decisions right after sex? The correct question is, look deep inside yourself, why are you letting them act this way and taking on so much of the emotional responsibility yet not actually protecting yourself? You're letting emotional unhealthy guys drive for you when they can't even safely drive themselves. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 21, 2020 19:42:12 GMT
Alexandra and trn9 are spot on. The most empowering thing you can do for yourself right now is to turn your thinking around to yourself again....what do you need, how do you feel about being treated this way, what are your boundaries, and are there aspects of your self acceptance that are wonky and need some working on?.
To be fair, he triangulated you with other "beautiful and perfect" women he talked about. This is a hook for a lot of unsuspecting women (and men), making you feel a need to prove yourself or win a prize. But men who do this are the least trustworthy in my experiences.
I know its hard when you've allowed someone close enough to be your lover, and you will likely feel a bit of longing for him for a little bit, because thats what physical intimacy does. But try to see his behaviour (especially the triangulation part) as a red flag and don't fall for it again. Try to get some distance from him and ignore any messages (or block), enough for the longing/love feeling to fade, and feel strong enough to assert boundaries that will protect you from being harmed again.
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alice
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by alice on Oct 22, 2020 3:02:21 GMT
At that point I should have already read between the lines. Don't beat yourself up. It's always easier to see in retrospect. These are important lessons and no one wants to go through them (ugh, I could have a few years of my life back), but I'm just so happy I can cut this stuff off right at the start now. You'll be thankful when you spot it later! |
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