|
Post by alexandra on Apr 13, 2021 0:04:48 GMT
I was not discounting the cultural aspect. Toxic masculinity is an enormous topic that I've touched on occasionally in other posts, and which occurs on a spectrum depending on where you live in the world. I was sharing the perspective that there are a lot of pieces that need to come together for a sustainable relationship and are actually of equal importance to each other: the desire for the same cultural or religious backgrounds that may make daily day to day life and raising a family easier because of the shared views (if that's a priority to someone, as it is to you), the very real pressure from family and society that may exist to stay within those populations when looking for partners (and is often disproportionately put on women who may not have as many educational or professional options or have the desire to leave family responsibilities by going somewhere else even if they had the opportunity, etc.), finding someone who wants to be an equal partner instead of patriarchal and is also emotionally healthy enough to do it (which is a reflection of shared core values, in this instance), and minding your own side of past conditioning in dysfunctional dynamics (the work you've done on yourself, both alone and with the help of therapists and professionals).
I'm not saying I know your exact situation or size of the potential available pool of men who fit your needs on a shared background level. Just that I'm familiar with the pressures and general concerns of being in a culture like that, and have even encountered it myself with older generations but have been lucky to not have been strictly restricted by it (though I had to untangle it for myself over years to feel okay about this). And that all of these different aspects are intertwined in creating and finding connections with others, whether or not it consciously appears that way.
I am sorry you are going through this, and was trying to offer a perspective on areas to further consider if and when you're ready to move on emotionally, though it is still premature right now. I was influenced both through cultural pressure and having extended family with different personality disorders, and it manifested within romantic relationships and connections in ways I'd have never imagined were related. Ways that made me miserable. Once I confronted all I've mentioned within myself, I began to be able to connect fully both to myself and with secure men, whereas before that I only felt intense connections to FAs for many years (and DAs before that).
Ultimately, at this moment there's little you can do to change the prevalence of toxic masculinity within your circumstances besides what you have been doing already: walk away from men who indulge in it and challenge others who are open-minded to think more about their own perspectives and perhaps they will little by little move away from normalizing those behaviors. It is sad that people of both genders often do not get support in working through these issues because it is so deeply stigmatized for many cultures, even moreso for men. Or they've been so indoctrinated into it that they don't want to change and see nothing wrong. But in regards to what you can control in general, that is related to who you choose to have relationships with and how you interact with other people. So my suggestions haven't been to discount anything, but rather to focus on what you can control within yourself. That brought me the most clarity and support in sorting through my issues, which is why I wanted to share my perspective, but these aren't one size fits all solutions either. Just my opinions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 0:31:06 GMT
I was not discounting the cultural aspect. Toxic masculinity is an enormous topic that I've touched on occasionally in other posts, and which occurs on a spectrum depending on where you live in the world. I was sharing the perspective that there are a lot of pieces that need to come together for a sustainable relationship and are actually of equal importance to each other: the desire for the same cultural or religious backgrounds that may make daily day to day life and raising a family easier because of the shared views (if that's a priority to someone, as it is to you), the very real pressure from family and society that may exist to stay within those populations when looking for partners (and is often disproportionately put on women who may not have as many educational or professional options or have the desire to leave family responsibilities by going somewhere else even if they had the opportunity, etc.), finding someone who wants to be an equal partner instead of patriarchal and is also emotionally healthy enough to do it (which is a reflection of shared core values, in this instance), and minding your own side of past conditioning in dysfunctional dynamics (the work you've done on yourself, both alone and with the help of therapists and professionals). I'm not saying I know your exact situation or size of the potential available pool of men who fit your needs on a shared background level. Just that I'm familiar with the pressures and general concerns of being in a culture like that, and have even encountered it myself with older generations but have been lucky to not have been strictly restricted by it (though I had to untangle it for myself over years to feel okay about this). And that all of these different aspects are intertwined in creating and finding connections with others, whether or not it consciously appears that way. I am sorry you are going through this, and was trying to offer a perspective on areas to further consider if and when you're ready to move on emotionally, though it is still premature right now. I was influenced both through cultural pressure and having extended family with different personality disorders, and it manifested within romantic relationships and connections in ways I'd have never imagined were related. Ways that made me miserable. Once I confronted all I've mentioned within myself, I began to be able to connect fully both to myself and with secure men, whereas before that I only felt intense connections to FAs for many years (and DAs before that). Ultimately, at this moment there's little you can do to change the prevalence of toxic masculinity within your circumstances besides what you have been doing already: walk away from men who indulge in it and challenge others who are open-minded to think more about their own perspectives and perhaps they will little by little move away from normalizing those behaviors. It is sad that people of both genders often do not get support in working through these issues because it is so deeply stigmatized for many cultures, even moreso for men. Or they've been so indoctrinated into it that they don't want to change and see nothing wrong. But in regards to what you can control in general, that is related to who you choose to have relationships with and how you interact with other people. So my suggestions haven't been to discount anything, but rather to focus on what you can control within yourself. That brought me the most clarity and support in sorting through my issues, which is why I wanted to share my perspective, but these aren't one size fits all solutions either. Just my opinions. Your opinions are appreciated (and something to think about). Forgive me if the syntax was a bit harsh, I was merely responding in a way where I was also keeping other readers/visitors in mind in case a misunderstanding might develop!
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Apr 13, 2021 2:36:51 GMT
No problem. I wrote a lot of information at once anyway which can make it a lot to digest. This stuff is all a process!
|
|
|
Post by blacksnow2 on Apr 17, 2021 21:27:30 GMT
I don't know if any of this will make sense, to be honest, because I don't think I'm in a "making sense" headspace, but you wanna know what I think? Compatibility isn't really a thing. Like, how do I say it? Any two people can make it work if they want to, it has little to do with culture and personality and interests and stuff like that. It's more complicated because there are many factors involved but at the root of it is really the willingness to work through it with someone else, to accept differences, etc.
I would agree that compatibility is a thing when it comes to certain people: you know, the very stubborn uncompromising egotistical "big" people... they're not really compatible with anyone besides, I don't know, people who have no boundaries?
About your situation, this is unfortunate. But maybe what I say will help a bit? So from my understanding, if you are drawn to an FA or anyone who has deep attachment issues, I can sort of bet money on you likely having attachment issues as well? I don't want to call you out in an accusatory way so I'm sorry if it comes off that way.
For one, I think because you're analyzing him so much and are focused on him rather than yourself, you have detached from your own core and it looks like it's been like that for a while. This is the kind of thing that inadvertently puts pressure on the other person, and they likely aren't even conscious of it, but it gets communicated in subtle ways. You're probably not wrong when you say he may have felt like he needed to be perfect, etc. From what you're writing, it's a bit like you expected him to give you things he wasn't capable of giving you. To me, there's a somewhat simple solution to that: don't expect it. Which is way easier said than done. Either that, or obviously you walk away. You have to decide what is more important: the person or the timeline you expect things to happen?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 22:13:52 GMT
I don't know if any of this will make sense, to be honest, because I don't think I'm in a "making sense" headspace, but you wanna know what I think? Compatibility isn't really a thing. Like, how do I say it? Any two people can make it work if they want to, it has little to do with culture and personality and interests and stuff like that. It's more complicated because there are many factors involved but at the root of it is really the willingness to work through it with someone else, to accept differences, etc. I would agree that compatibility is a thing when it comes to certain people: you know, the very stubborn uncompromising egotistical "big" people... they're not really compatible with anyone besides, I don't know, people who have no boundaries? About your situation, this is unfortunate. But maybe what I say will help a bit? So from my understanding, if you are drawn to an FA or anyone who has deep attachment issues, I can sort of bet money on you likely having attachment issues as well? I don't want to call you out in an accusatory way so I'm sorry if it comes off that way. For one, I think because you're analyzing him so much and are focused on him rather than yourself, you have detached from your own core and it looks like it's been like that for a while. This is the kind of thing that inadvertently puts pressure on the other person, and they likely aren't even conscious of it, but it gets communicated in subtle ways. You're probably not wrong when you say he may have felt like he needed to be perfect, etc. From what you're writing, it's a bit like you expected him to give you things he wasn't capable of giving you. To me, there's a somewhat simple solution to that: don't expect it. Which is way easier said than done. Either that, or obviously you walk away. You have to decide what is more important: the person or the timeline you expect things to happen? Thanks for your input and opinions.
I would not necessarily say I am focused on him more than myself, because in the end I have decided to prioritize myself and my needs after a reasonable period of compromise, rather than abandoning my boundaries and needs to make whatever work on his terms.
I would also not say I am particularly attracted to people who are FA or with attachment issues as seen with my exchange with alexandra, but unfortunately when you love someone you tend to put in some effort before calling it quits! But I did hope that posting on here would help others in a similar situation visiting the board, and also myself understand certain behaviors in retrospect because I can never fully understand them from his perspective (I am not FA!) and I hope that this post has achieved that in some way for readers.
|
|
|
Post by blacksnow2 on Apr 24, 2021 21:14:18 GMT
Okay, I understand. Admittedly, I didn't really read the rest of the thread, only the original post and decided to reply. That's my fault.
|
|