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Post by alexandra on Jan 26, 2022 19:43:29 GMT
3 years post divorce should be mostly fine for a secure person. If he is secure, I'd expect him to have processed and be emotionally available again. Still separated or less than a year out (maybe 2) is dicey. I think all anyone else is saying is don't rush to invest, take the time to get to know him better to make sure. My boyfriend was between 2-3 years out from a long term situation that ended badly, but when we finally discussed it (maybe after a month?), he was very forthcoming, very balanced and mature and respectful to them both about how he talked about it, didn't say bad things about her even though in my opinion it would have been warranted!, and basically focused on what he did after to make lifestyle changes and process and heal. This was obviously when he earned secure, though he didn't know anything about attachment theory until I taught him lol. But the way he talked about it was very mature, I can't think of a better word, versus half answers, difficulty talking about it even still, being over the ex but not the failure of the relationship or past baggage etc. that I've heard before from the men who weren't emotionally available for a new relationship with me (but I was AP and dated them anyway until they became my exes too!).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2022 19:48:20 GMT
3 years post divorce should be mostly fine for a secure person. If he is secure, I'd expect him to have processed and be emotionally available again. Still separated or less than a year out (maybe 2) is dicey. I think all anyone else is saying is don't rush to invest, take the time to get to know him better to make sure. My boyfriend was between 2-3 years out from a long term situation that ended badly, but when we finally discussed it (maybe after a month?), he was very forthcoming, very balanced and mature and respectful to them both about how he talked about it, didn't say bad things about her even though in my opinion it would have been warranted!, and basically focused on what he did after to make lifestyle changes and process and heal. This was obviously when he earned secure, though he didn't know anything about attachment theory until I taught him lol. But the way he talked about it was very mature, I can't think of a better word, versus half answers, difficulty talking about it even still, being over the ex but not the failure of the relationship or past baggage etc. that I've heard before from the men who weren't emotionally available for a new relationship with me (but I was AP and dated them anyway until they became my exes too!). Right- my point is it *could be an issue and I've seen plenty of men out of long term things that haven't got themselves figured out. There are some that do. But the point is- it isn't something to judge as an asset or a liability until you experience the person IN PERSON over time. My whole reasoning is that you can't say one way or the other about ANY of this until you let the interactions unfold in a manner other than writing, over time. Slowing down means not jumping to conclusions either way based on check boxes, reserve opinions until more is experienced.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 26, 2022 19:58:42 GMT
Sorry, I think what I am trying to communicate is not coming across. My posts are not meant as criticisms. I have swung across a huge range with how I date. I've had the mindset of only a tiny amount of people could possibly suit me. It was a VERY narrow window. It caused me to cling a bit to the ones I found and then question when it didn't go anywhere. I had to question and unpack why I had these beliefs.
My last relationship was complete outside my type in all ways, and even with the ugly end it was by far the best relationship I've had. Besides the attachment issues we got on great despite being from different worlds.
You are allowed to be picky, I am just sharing when I had that mindset it caused me un-necessary grief. If this guy ghosts me at this stage, I haven't spent a ton of time, I will recognize it isn't personal and I will move on.
You don't need to change anything, and if you are finding my feedback unhelpful then like introvert I am happy to bow out.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 26, 2022 20:21:27 GMT
To add on, I think for me my picker was actually completely broken. Before my most current relationship the only men I found physically attracted were all emotionally unavailable. As well it was only a handful of men. So I kept trying to pick men I was attracted to but I was using faulty criteria. I dismissed a ton of guys for second dates because they were "boring" but really they were just stable normal guys. Once I realized I was way off base I stopped dating for awhile.
When I met my ex I was like eh, he is okay, bit boring but I feel good in his presence, and then it just built up. We took physical intimacy slow but wow did he ever surprise me there.
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Post by anne12 on Jan 26, 2022 21:00:17 GMT
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Post by alexandra on Jan 26, 2022 22:01:19 GMT
To add on, I think for me my picker was actually completely broken. Before my most current relationship the only men I found physically attracted were all emotionally unavailable. As well it was only a handful of men. So I kept trying to pick men I was attracted to but I was using faulty criteria. I dismissed a ton of guys for second dates because they were "boring" but really they were just stable normal guys. Same here!
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Post by seeking on Jan 27, 2022 0:20:56 GMT
It isn't that a long marriage is concerning, it's that processing the loss of a long marriage can take quite a bit of time as someone figured themselves out, grieves, recovers from feelings of resentment or disappointment, finds a new normal, and creates a vision for the rest of their life. It's not a red flag but it's not a green flag, it's a yellow flag, which means proceed, but slow down and use caution. Discovery does take quite a bit of time, and I was simply cautioning after the AP type rush you have described (very recently) in terms of putting someone on a pedestal. Yeah, this got me thinking a lot - like I often feel pretty misunderstood - even by a good friend of mine who tries to help. So I took some time to try to figure this out. I really didn't intend to put that guy on a pedestal. It's more like living in a country where the weather is always miserable and depressing, but you've made peace with it, you live with it. And then one day this amazing balmy weather comes along and you feel something in your bones. And it's like Wait? What's that? I want more of that.... but then it disappears again and you go back to the dreariness. Not a perfect metaphor. My life isn't dreary. It's fine. It's just that is the feeling. It's not a putting him on a pedestal as much as recognizing *that kinda guy* is rare. It just is. And maybe the AP rising up in me is like an anxiety around wanting it to work/stay, not go away, because the chance of someone like that coming along again -if I look at a 3 year nonstop on 3 different dating apps average - is about 1x every 3 months. Maybe more. It's not many. My friends have pointed out to me, what I'm looking for is unique. Not like rare snowflake unique. But I'm unique. So it makes sense. But it's rare. It just is. Like I really don't think because of something I'm doing. The last 2-3 times a guy like that came along, I screwed it up for reasons that were literally political/medical - I couldn't get over something, I stayed my ground, I a little regret it, but I know long term I do need someone who can be by my side in certain ways with certain really important matters. I accept that's rare. I just don't like it. I actually had a conversation with my friend the other night about feeling like I really may end up alone. And he was like "Would that be okay?" Like he was encouraging me to begin to think that way. And I was like, Lordy, are we really having this conversation? I have good friends late-50s - they're just alone. I'm pretty sure they always will be. Lovely humans, I love them all so much. But they just built there life in a way that that's that.
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Post by seeking on Jan 27, 2022 0:44:53 GMT
However, I don't think my feedback is helpful to you, the sense I'm getting is that you feel deflated by it. I am sorry that we aren't understanding each other, and I'd be happy to give you space around this process while you explore your own feelings and thoughts. Thanks. I appreciate this. I felt triggered because I feel like I've done SO much, read allll the books, years of therapy, years of trial and error. And there's a lot I simply don't have control over. By now, I know what's okay and what's not. Making it work (actually partnering) is another story. I think the more I'm on this forum lately, the more I really don't know if I can identify as AP. The most AP I was with the father of my child who I think is a narc. At the very least he is toxic/cluster B and probably DA. I've been a bit AP with some family members. But generally I am FA. So maybe if this post were on the FA section, would it provide more context? Because I have worked through a TON of AP - I love who I am. I don't like my thick layers of PTSD, but I am doing all I can to work through that. I love the life I create. I love my work. I'm fine alone. I want to partner, but I'll wait for the right one. I have strong solid friendships, excellent boundaries for the most part (when I don't, I really don't). I try to keep drama out now (since things ended with that friend). I do tons of work and am super self-aware. But I freak out at the thought of a long-term relationship. I am terrified of resenting someone. Of looking down on someone, of losing respect for them. Of being agitated and irritated. I've gotten very comfortable with my solitude and single life. So for me to even get to a point of emailing and setting up a call is a big deal. There's a lot of filters to even get that far. - So, yes, deflated. Because at this point I'm trying real hard to move past my own FA tendencies (which are the stronger now) and so to be like "Hey, I think this is a secure move." And then hear what says like "Nope. Be careful." It spins me out .... Not you - at all - more just like this has been a long road. This guy may have been married for 30 years - but I've been married for 0, not ever. So that may be a little more concerning. Thanks for the space to process through this.
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Post by seeking on Jan 27, 2022 0:49:31 GMT
Right- my point is it *could be an issue and I've seen plenty of men out of long term things that haven't got themselves figured out. There are some that do. But the point is- it isn't something to judge as an asset or a liability until you experience the person IN PERSON over time. My whole reasoning is that you can't say one way or the other about ANY of this until you let the interactions unfold in a manner other than writing, over time. Slowing down means not jumping to conclusions either way based on check boxes, reserve opinions until more is experienced. I get this, but hopefully by now it's clear, there hasn't been anyone to do that with (in person, over time) in years. If there were, it didn't work out even before we got to that point. I think that's more where my work is.
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Post by seeking on Jan 27, 2022 0:53:00 GMT
To add on, I think for me my picker was actually completely broken. Before my most current relationship the only men I found physically attracted were all emotionally unavailable. As well it was only a handful of men. So I kept trying to pick men I was attracted to but I was using faulty criteria. I dismissed a ton of guys for second dates because they were "boring" but really they were just stable normal guys. Once I realized I was way off base I stopped dating for awhile. When I met my ex I was like eh, he is okay, bit boring but I feel good in his presence, and then it just built up. We took physical intimacy slow but wow did he ever surprise me there. Exactly. That is where I'm at. I've turned down lots of "attractive" guys b/c I can see them as my *old type* - and I've done enough work now to really have to say no to that. - it can be like a drug. Or it was for me. The guy that I'm talking about here is boring ish (not really) but my picker is noticing that and trying to not go down that road (which is why I spun out here). He seems stable and normal. Anyone whose raised 3 kids to adults, had a stable job and can retire at 55 and had a long marriage, to me is way more stable than I can ever say I've been. Yes, those are check boxes. Yes, I'll absolutely get to know this guy (what else really is there?) But my FA is going to creep in fast, so it would be nice to have some support around not finding fault in him right now (or potential fault). Until I have a real reason too... because, trust me, I will.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 27, 2022 1:44:47 GMT
To add on, I think for me my picker was actually completely broken. Before my most current relationship the only men I found physically attracted were all emotionally unavailable. As well it was only a handful of men. So I kept trying to pick men I was attracted to but I was using faulty criteria. I dismissed a ton of guys for second dates because they were "boring" but really they were just stable normal guys. Once I realized I was way off base I stopped dating for awhile. When I met my ex I was like eh, he is okay, bit boring but I feel good in his presence, and then it just built up. We took physical intimacy slow but wow did he ever surprise me there. Exactly. That is where I'm at. I've turned down lots of "attractive" guys b/c I can see them as my *old type* - and I've done enough work now to really have to say no to that. - it can be like a drug. Or it was for me. The guy that I'm talking about here is boring ish (not really) but my picker is noticing that and trying to not go down that road (which is why I spun out here). He seems stable and normal. Anyone whose raised 3 kids to adults, had a stable job and can retire at 55 and had a long marriage, to me is way more stable than I can ever say I've been. Yes, those are check boxes. Yes, I'll absolutely get to know this guy (what else really is there?) But my FA is going to creep in fast, so it would be nice to have some support around not finding fault in him right now (or potential fault). Until I have a real reason too... because, trust me, I will. Oh gosh, the drug... yes I know the type. I had one that almost broke me, so I get it. It does sound like you have put in a ton of work. The more work I put in to my anxious side, the more my dismissive traits I didn't even know where there started to emerge so I can understand that. I also identify with your post above that you feel misunderstood a lot. Do you have any trusted friends who could help you out with dating? I am super lucky to have two friends I trust. They are great at helping me balance out when to set a boundary vs when to talk something out. It is also helping me trust my own intuition better, and not write off imperfections, but also don't stick around for disrespect as I did last time. As cheesey as they are, pros and cons list help me, and reviewing what my actual needs and deal breakers are. No one is perfect, what traits of mine are they putting up with that they find annoying? I've also found sometimes traits you love, end up annoying you and traits that annoy you at first can become enduring. I get the frustration of wanting a relationship and trying so hard and something just isn't clicking. Is being alone ideal? No, but I also see my friends who are in absolutely miserable marriages, and having come out of my own abusive situation I don't view it as the worse thing anymore. There is nothing more lonely then being in a relationship with someone who isn't emotionally available.
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Post by seeking on Jan 27, 2022 12:19:29 GMT
usernametaken, yes, like a drug. I don't do "drugs" anymore. I've been sober a long time.
And this last guy felt sober to me.
But last night, I felt myself de-activating after all this. That's what I was afraid would happen.
And now it's clear to me that I'm really going to work on FA - I don't put anyone on a pedestal anymore, as people have suggested. I think it's an FA strategy (upon further reflection) to give myself a kind of impetus to keep going with it.
As far as my friends, I have one I talk to about stuff. But I'll send him a photo or a screenshot of someone's profile and he'll go "EW NO!" When I'm trying to be secure. And then tell me someone else (who I know is my old "drug" type) so not very helpful. I used to have a therapist who would point me to people who weren't good for me either. So I literally have no support for just boring old secure types.
I know what you mean about being alone versus being in a relationship that sucks. I agree. But being alone has its own certain hell at times.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 27, 2022 21:56:00 GMT
Another thing that may help is reframing your thoughts. It's not, boring old secure type, even though you're not getting that "high." It is, someone who has an interesting life but doesn't overly activate your nervous system!
Just because a person is not provoking your overwhelm doesn't make them "boring." Unless they are ACTUALLY boring lol, which is about personality and has nothing to do with security. But you not getting the sparks-high is an internal thing, created by your own feelings and experiences and trauma.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 27, 2022 23:32:25 GMT
Another thing that may help is reframing your thoughts. It's not, boring old secure type, even though you're not getting that "high." It is, someone who has an interesting life but doesn't overly activate your nervous system! Just because a person is not provoking your overwhelm doesn't make them "boring." Unless they are ACTUALLY boring lol, which is about personality and has nothing to do with security. But you not getting the sparks-high is an internal thing, created by your own feelings and experiences and trauma. I like this a lot! Good reminder. Kinda like the visionwalk that Anne posted. How is my body reacting to these dates? Do I enjoy it in the moment? Do I want to see them again? What stories am I telling myself? Do I feel safe? If I don't feel safe is it past trauma or are they doing something red flaggy that I am ignoring?
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Post by seeking on Jan 28, 2022 2:04:55 GMT
Another thing that may help is reframing your thoughts. It's not, boring old secure type, even though you're not getting that "high." It is, someone who has an interesting life but doesn't overly activate your nervous system! Just because a person is not provoking your overwhelm doesn't make them "boring." Unless they are ACTUALLY boring lol, which is about personality and has nothing to do with security. But you not getting the sparks-high is an internal thing, created by your own feelings and experiences and trauma. Yes, I agree. I just don't really have a lot of support for secure types. And in the end, I'm just not really meeting guys. So things aren't going anywhere. 95% of the time I'm wading through profiles and trying to talk myself into people "I guess he's okay, I guess he's okay, I guess he's okay." 3% of the time I'm finding someone who excites me - truly - like I feel my heart space open - and it doesn't go anywhere, as outlined here. 2 % of the time I am talking to someone - it's going somewhere - but it's murky waters. So something may be wrong? But I don't know what.
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