Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 20:59:48 GMT
Thank you tnr9 and alexandra. That makes more sense to me now, in terms of the strategy and why this happens. Especially since there is no trust of self operating... so while individuals may SEEM to be self-assured that they are doing the "right thing" , because of the way they defend what they are doing, they really are NOT sure. That's been confusing to me, why turning it back to then saying "Ok, do what you think is right (since you are saying you know the situation much better than I and that I just don't get it) illicits the response it does (defensiveness, argument, more questions even though they don't like the answers they are getting)... it is confusing to deal with. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it and hope to gain another perspective, so it hasn't been easy to follow when people ask for input and then just spin with it. I think I did that a bit when I was with the narcissist because I was truly confused and there was crazymaking going on, I lost trust of my perceptions. That was long ago and a pretty isolated occurrence so it doesn't register to me that someone might be doing that, it's not a real familiar mode for me. Thanks again for such a great explanation. So then, my input truly is not constructive if that's going on, is how I'm reading that? It really can't be received because someone may be in their own whirlwind and other peoples words are just objects flying by? Something to react to but not take in? |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Feb 15, 2022 21:26:50 GMT
@introvert, I think it goes back to gauging where someone is in their process. If they're just triggered in the moment but interested in the takeaways, they'll come back to it later when not triggered and able to process again and it will be helpful to have the comments to revisit. If they want to be enabled and not introspect, they'll argue and eventually withdraw. So in a way, if you're concerned about your own time and efforts, it will quickly reveal and take care of itself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 21:44:16 GMT
@introvert , I think it goes back to gauging where someone is in their process. If they're just triggered in the moment but interested in the takeaways, they'll come back to it later when not triggered and able to process again and it will be helpful to have the comments to revisit. If they want to be enabled and not introspect, they'll argue and eventually withdraw. So in a way, if you're concerned about your own time and efforts, it will quickly reveal and take care of itself. Makes sense!! I think we get a lot of argue/withdraw... I so rarely see someone come back and explore something different from their original pattern. But those that do make up the backbone of this forum I think! Appreciate the insights, so I can understand some of the dynamics. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 15, 2022 22:04:30 GMT
@introvert , I suspect that in spite of others validating the poster IRL, needs and the desired response were still not getting met by the ex, and deep down they know something is still wrong. When someone leans anxious, they don't trust themselves at all and they want the magic bullet answer for the formula that gets them what they want. That means a combination of doing what tnr9 said, and looking to talk to anyone who will listen to simultaneously ruminate (which isn't something that feels like you can control when it's happening to you btw) and who will help emotionally regulate them and/or point out some new angle they missed to get closer to the formula so they can keep trying to salvage the connection with the attachment figure. Saying something like do what you want / think is best doesn't lead to the person responding well because they are so disconnected with and distrustful of themselves, it's an analysis paralysis thing of, but I don't think anything is best or even good enough, and then continued flailing and anxiety. (Plus, it can sound to an insecure like the other person is giving up on the conversation and doesn't really mean what they're saying, they just want to exit... fine, if you're so smart then do what's best and see if I care! I'm out... and that can trigger abandonment fears of not being good enough to continue engaging with.) So someone might come here saying, I just learned attachment theory exists and it seems like it is the holy grail to understanding this person and learning how to meet all their needs so they'll meet mine!! Which of course isn't how attachment theory works or assists people. But I can see wanting to engage in this discussion to explore it in hopes of that, then not knowing how to handle hearing something you didn't want to hear instead. Some people are ready and willing to hear the hard truths and may reengage after digesting that and getting over feeling triggered by it, and then will keep seeking more information about their side of things and what they can do for themselves. Or, they may feel hurt and reject the people helping them as not understanding or being bitter or whatever and leave instead. Returning to their anxiety hell and trying to figure out other ways to make it feel better. Honestly…it is a very hard pattern to break because being other focused is viewed as an asset…and can warp into a savior complex as such. But alexandra is right…I came here hoping to find the magic bullet to win B back. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Feb 16, 2022 16:36:24 GMT
There's also an aspect about countering and debating which helps some people process information. If you have the energy to argue as they play devil's advocate, they are challenging what you say because they are actually listening not rejecting, in an effort to see if what you say makes sense for their own reassessment. It may sound counter-intuitive since they're often doing much more talking than listening. This communication style is very hard for some people to engage with, because it is an off-shoot of looking at someone else for self-regulation (in regards to you are tasking someone else to "convince you" instead of taking full responsibility for coming up with your own convictions), and I suspect it would be completely offputting for DAs who would find it draining and even enabling. It's not usually a good thing to do unless you know the person you're talking to enjoys that sort of intense type of conversation, because there's otherwise a lot of space for the other person to feel trampled on even if that's not the speaker's intent. I'm not saying that's what the poster was doing here, as I don't believe it was (eventually the countering stops and the opinions shift if someone is doing this). But sometimes in general it is how some people operate, even culturally in some places, and I used to do it when I was younger and I was exploring all angles of something. Basically my MO |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Feb 16, 2022 18:34:53 GMT
There's also an aspect about countering and debating which helps some people process information. If you have the energy to argue as they play devil's advocate, they are challenging what you say because they are actually listening not rejecting, in an effort to see if what you say makes sense for their own reassessment. It may sound counter-intuitive since they're often doing much more talking than listening. This communication style is very hard for some people to engage with, because it is an off-shoot of looking at someone else for self-regulation (in regards to you are tasking someone else to "convince you" instead of taking full responsibility for coming up with your own convictions), and I suspect it would be completely offputting for DAs who would find it draining and even enabling. It's not usually a good thing to do unless you know the person you're talking to enjoys that sort of intense type of conversation, because there's otherwise a lot of space for the other person to feel trampled on even if that's not the speaker's intent. I'm not saying that's what the poster was doing here, as I don't believe it was (eventually the countering stops and the opinions shift if someone is doing this). But sometimes in general it is how some people operate, even culturally in some places, and I used to do it when I was younger and I was exploring all angles of something. Basically my MO I will practice my debate skills so I am ready krolle. 🤔🙂 |
|
