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Post by cherrycola on Jun 15, 2022 7:13:18 GMT
Okay... Posting in the correct thread now. Still been taking a bit of space from this person for the last few weeks. Not rude but light chatting, memes, comics. Etc. Tonight out of the blue he tells me he needs space. Very confused because space is kinda what we are doing. So I know I shouldn't be focused on him but now I feel like he is acting out of punishing me. I offered my support and no reply so I left it at that.
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 13, 2022 0:53:59 GMT
So he came back and we have had a series of conflicts, but I think we are starting to understand each other. He said he was getting triggered anxious around me which was triggering fawning. He also felt like he was begging for my time and attention. He often feels like he isn't a friend, just a penpal because we text so often but don't hang out. Basically, he goes anxious I go avoidant. He pushes for closeness and I pull away.
A great example was I told him I am under the weather. He immediately starts to caretake me, go to the doctor, do you need the hospital. Can I bring you anything, etc etc. when I asked him to stop, he got mad that I am always so suspicious of him. I had to explain that I am NOT the type of friend who will bring you soup when you are sick or other such acts. That all this fawning comes across as expectations and I then get stressed that I am going to let him down. He says things like "I haven't given up on you yet". In addition my trust issues means that when people do nice things for me, I can't help but wonder where the strings are. What do they "want" from me. In his case, a romantic relationship?
My counsellor told me I need to very clearly ask him what his needs are, and then let him know if I can meet them or not. And then let him decide if he wants to continue this friendship. She also said I should be upfront and ask if he has developed romantic feelings for me. That it was good that I was honest about the fact that I will never show up in the some of the ways that he thinks I should. I also identified when he asks me to do things, I can just flat out say no. I was feeling really guilty because I make an effort to see my other friends but then he asks and I have a free day so I feel like I have to hang out with him. But really all I want to do is curl up and do nothing and recharge.
What is kinda amazing about this, is it gave me such amazing insight into the things I do when I am triggered anxious. How I fawn and push for closeness and then others distance from me.
I also have identified I struggle to remain emotionally available. I have a lot of external stressors on me right now, so all I can manage is small spurts of reconnecting with people and then I shut down. I actually joked about this with one of my more avoidant friends, me and him work because we come together, get incredibly close and intimate and then break off for months, rinse and repeat. But we actually appreciate this about each other.
So I need to work on sustaining connections with my friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 1:10:34 GMT
I think your therapist is giving great advice! And as to sustaining connections. I'm available and not avoidant in my friendships. I am however, less social and more a loner in terms of social connection and going out, meeting up, etc. My best friend and I text to stay in touch and meet quite rarely. We reconnect fully and with great happiness. Then we go our ways, touch base now and then via text over coffee in our respective houses, then eventually plan another together-time. In the meantime each of us knows and utilizes the fact that we are there for each other night or day, rain or shine should a need (emotional or otherwise!) arise. I have NO plans to revamp my entire style of maintaining a friendship. The critical point is that you have to be who you are, with someone who is compatible around that. Someone who doesn't have different needs and expectations. My BFF and I are very committed and present to the relationship and conduct it in a mutually satisfying and rewarding way. We will likely do it just this way until we die or until one of us goes to the deathbed and needs a closer hand So- just chiming in about something relatable- but which I don't have any intention to adjust because it's totally healthy and secure for ME. and my BFF.
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 13, 2022 1:36:14 GMT
I think your therapist is giving great advice! And as to sustaining connections. I'm available and not avoidant in my friendships. I am however, less social and more a loner in terms of social connection and going out, meeting up, etc. My best friend and I text to stay in touch and meet quite rarely. We reconnect fully and with great happiness. Then we go our ways, touch base now and then via text over coffee in our respective houses, then eventually plan another together-time. In the meantime each of us knows and utilizes the fact that we are there for each other night or day, rain or shine should a need (emotional or otherwise!) arise. I have NO plans to revamp my entire style of maintaining a friendship. The critical point is that you have to be who you are, with someone who is compatible around that. Someone who doesn't have different needs and expectations. My BFF and I are very committed and present to the relationship and conduct it in a mutually satisfying and rewarding way. We will likely do it just this way until we die or until one of us goes to the deathbed and needs a closer hand So- just chiming in about something relatable- but which I don't have any intention to adjust because it's totally healthy and secure for ME. and my BFF. That makes a lot of sense. My BFF is FA, we don't even really text, we often go long periods without contact. We catch up and it's like no time has gone by and we just fall back into sync. Where as AP wants to text all the time and maybe it just doesn't allow me any space to miss him? Because when he took space there was a day when I was like hmmm, I wonder if he would want to hang out. I also wonder if he confuses my ability to communicate and be vulnerable with closeness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 1:47:33 GMT
I think your therapist is giving great advice! And as to sustaining connections. I'm available and not avoidant in my friendships. I am however, less social and more a loner in terms of social connection and going out, meeting up, etc. My best friend and I text to stay in touch and meet quite rarely. We reconnect fully and with great happiness. Then we go our ways, touch base now and then via text over coffee in our respective houses, then eventually plan another together-time. In the meantime each of us knows and utilizes the fact that we are there for each other night or day, rain or shine should a need (emotional or otherwise!) arise. I have NO plans to revamp my entire style of maintaining a friendship. The critical point is that you have to be who you are, with someone who is compatible around that. Someone who doesn't have different needs and expectations. My BFF and I are very committed and present to the relationship and conduct it in a mutually satisfying and rewarding way. We will likely do it just this way until we die or until one of us goes to the deathbed and needs a closer hand So- just chiming in about something relatable- but which I don't have any intention to adjust because it's totally healthy and secure for ME. and my BFF. That makes a lot of sense. My BFF is FA, we don't even really text, we often go long periods without contact. We catch up and it's like no time has gone by and we just fall back into sync. Where as AP wants to text all the time and maybe it just doesn't allow me any space to miss him? Because when he took space there was a day when I was like hmmm, I wonder if he would want to hang out. I also wonder if he confuses my ability to communicate and be vulnerable with closeness. He could very well be confused about your ability to communicate and be vulnerable. And, for me, my desire to get together doesn't change with the amount of distance. What I mean is that space doesn't inspire connect... as it might you. Space is my norm and would probably go on indefinitely if my BFF didn't schedule with me, she's got the initiative where I just don't have that internal "Go Time" signal. So that works.... but I would trigger the hell out of an AP, for sure. But what I absolutely don't understand is what the heck is his deal--- he sounds like he wants more than a friend relationship and that's just an IMPOSSIBLE dynamic when you don't want the same.
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Post by cherrycola on Jul 13, 2022 2:21:20 GMT
Go time signal is a good word. My default seems to be quite long. Part of that may be that when I was married he was my best friend and I didn't have a huge need for socializing outside that. I've put concious effort to pull a few people closer to meet that need I don't get romantically anymore.
I also have friends who have told me they don't have one at all so if I want to see them, it's on me. But I know it's sincere because they are always super easy to plan with and like seeing me.
Yeah, I often wonder if he is using me as a surrogate for a romantic relationship in some ways?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 2:30:04 GMT
Go time signal is a good word. My default seems to be quite long. Part of that may be that when I was married he was my best friend and I didn't have a huge need for socializing outside that. I've put concious effort to pull a few people closer to meet that need I don't get romantically anymore. I also have friends who have told me they don't have one at all so if I want to see them, it's on me. But I know it's sincere because they are always super easy to plan with and like seeing me. Yeah, I often wonder if he is using me as a surrogate for a romantic relationship in some ways? I get that too- the part of your partner being your best friend so not a big need for socializing. It makes sense you would have more social needs without him. I never have in my life but now that I'm in a secure relationship, I have no idea what I would do if something happened to him- would I become more social? I doubt it but it's an interesting question. I don't want to find out lol. It sure seems like it's a surrogate relationship. Especially with the "I haven't given up on you" comment. ⚠️
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Post by cherrycola on Aug 12, 2022 23:29:59 GMT
Continued to mostly keep my distance from this relationship. We went Kayaking which was nice but then he insisted that I give him dates for us to try to go camping and wouldn't accept that I just couldn't do it because going on vacation with my sister was my priority. I said I understood if that didn't work for him but he got upset and said I wasn't respecting his time.
Got sick with Covid after that, and was really out of it the last two weeks, he was aware I was sick. I reached out to him last night because I was feeling a bit lonely and down, but I specifically said I didn't need him to fix it for me, and that I didn't really even want to talk about it, just wanted some suggestions for what he does when he feels sad that weren't watch more tv. He immediately called despite me saying I wasn't feeling well. He then insisted that he keeps me company and wouldn't accept no for an answer. I tried to let him know I've been pulling away from everyone because I have a lot going on and he just kept trying to take over responsibility for making me feel better.
This morning he sent me a barrage of texts about how I was being a shitty friend. I felt incredibly uncomfortable and wanted to just ignore him, but I stayed with it. I reassured him I wanted to be his friend and asked what action I could take to show this.
He asked me for clearer communication and to set expectations for what we want from each other. I already communicate pretty clearly with him, so I simply told him I felt his expectations felt more in line with a relationship and not a friendship. That with a friendship I try to accept people how they come, and while I may set boundaries for how I expect to be treated I don't insist my friends change who they are. He didn't agree, and that I am maybe referring to a different level of friendship and that he wasn't expecting me to meet his needs like a relationship but that open communication is a pretty baseline for a friendship. That I was setting my standards for my friends too low and should expect better for myself. At this point I recognized he was using protest behavior so I stopped replying. He continued to rant and then a few hours later apologized and said he just feels me pulling away and maybe he should lower his expectations of me.
I'm confused and annoyed. There is obviously truth in what he says, I have been pulling away, but it is with almost everyone in my life. Though he isn't helping things. I haven't talked to my sister in weeks, and I keep dodging her invitations to spend time together. I am having constant health issues and have so little energy to deal with my own life. On top of that I am dealing with my fathers estate and burn out at work. He knows I am in weekly counselling to deal with my emotional unavailability. I don't know how much of this is just my avoidant nature that I don't expect people to be there for me. I may reach out, if I don't get what I need, I'll try another friend or I'll deal with it on my own. Maybe I do have low standards for my friends, some of them are flakes and emotionally unavailable as well but they do typically show up when it matters and at least one is trying to be more present for me. I am very open to deepening all my friendships and making new ones, which is how I ended up with this friend.
It is interesting because I can see the parallels in how I was pursuing Mr. AP for a time. I was putting a lot of demands on him and he is suffering from pretty bad depression. Since I eased up and let him be we are a lot more stable.
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Post by cherrycola on Sept 4, 2022 5:11:22 GMT
I continued to mostly distance from this friendship. I did reach out to thank him for some advice he gave me about a work project that turned out well. I was finally starting to feel like I could maybe come back to the friendship a tiny bit, but we had another incident. He randomly called me one night and asked if I was free, when I said no, he said well when you are, please drop me off a Covid test, I'm sick. I tried to indicate it was already late and I wasn't going to be done anytime soon and he said "that is fine, drop it off when you are done".
Since he had dropped off a Covid test while I was sick (he offered) I felt kinda obligated to do the same. An hour later I get a text from him to never mind, he found someone else.
I felt violated all over again by him. My bad for not enforcing my no a second time when he pushed, but it feels like most people when you call them out of the blue and they say they are busy, you don't make demands of them. It felt manipulative. Like either he is completely socially inept or this was protest behavior.
I feel guilty on so many levels but I just don't want to continue this friendship at all now. My counsellor pointed out that I have been struggling for sometime in this relationship. I guess I just feel like, if I give up on this, then what does it say about me? Like I would hate someone to just give up on me... But telling him point blank I found him demanding did not stop this behavior.
I do also think back about the early days of our friendship, it was like I could feel his expectations for me were out of line even then because I point blank told him "I can have a hard time caring about people", I'm not a warm fuzzy type of person" and "I'm not the type of friend who will bring you soup when you are sick" and he just didn't take me at my word.
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Post by cherrycola on Nov 10, 2022 20:18:42 GMT
So this friendship is over. A few months ago he called me suddenly and he asked if I was available, I clearly communicated I wasn't home and was indeed busy. He then proceeded to ask me to pickup a Covid kit and drop it off. I felt awkward and said it would be quite late by the time I was done, which he didn't care about it... so I caved and said when I was finished I would do so. By the time I was done he sent me a text and said nevermind, he found someone else. I expressed concerned for him feeling better and that was it. I haven't heard from him since. I almost feel odd that I feel so little for this person now? I don't know if it is de-activating or what but I do not miss him.
I do recognize that his insisting I pick up the test might have been protest behavior but I felt it was just another boundary violation. I was really proud of myself for not over explaining what I was doing.
The only problem now is I left a jacket at his place, but I don't want to see him again. With how things ended, I am not sure if it is appropriate to ask him to drop it off on my porch. Part of me is annoyed that he hasn't reached out at all to arrange its return. So I guess I am being a bit emotionally immature but I am going to sit on this a bit longer
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Post by alexandra on Nov 10, 2022 21:34:59 GMT
Do you have any mutual friends? This might be a time when having someone else pick it up for you is best. Though they'll likely have to listen to him complain about you.
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Post by cherrycola on Nov 10, 2022 21:43:27 GMT
Do you have any mutual friends? This might be a time when having someone else pick it up for you is best. Though they'll likely have to listen to him complain about you. Unfortunately no. I actually know his ex through work and mutual friends, but I think that is just as awkward as me trying to arrange the return. I know I can not hold people to my standards but I would have proactively put it in a bag and left it on my porch if it was a similar situation so I think my brain is stuck on, why do I have to be the one to do the awkward thing!!!
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Post by alexandra on Nov 10, 2022 22:07:37 GMT
You can instead try messaging that you're looking everywhere for a jacket you must have misplaced, and does he happen to have it at his house? I feel like that's less awkward in that it isn't confrontational (versus, you have my jacket and haven't tried to return it!). He may also just assume you don't want it, so don't assume the worst. Best case scenario is he answers, is respectful not abusive, and will leave it outside for you. If you feel there's any risk to your safety in going there, just let the jacket go and buy a new one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 22:16:33 GMT
So this friendship is over. A few months ago he called me suddenly and he asked if I was available, I clearly communicated I wasn't home and was indeed busy. He then proceeded to ask me to pickup a Covid kit and drop it off. I felt awkward and said it would be quite late by the time I was done, which he didn't care about it... so I caved and said when I was finished I would do so. By the time I was done he sent me a text and said nevermind, he found someone else. I expressed concerned for him feeling better and that was it. I haven't heard from him since. I almost feel odd that I feel so little for this person now? I don't know if it is de-activating or what but I do not miss him. I do recognize that his insisting I pick up the test might have been protest behavior but I felt it was just another boundary violation. I was really proud of myself for not over explaining what I was doing. The only problem now is I left a jacket at his place, but I don't want to see him again. With how things ended, I am not sure if it is appropriate to ask him to drop it off on my porch. Part of me is annoyed that he hasn't reached out at all to arrange its return. So I guess I am being a bit emotionally immature but I am going to sit on this a bit longer Everyone approaches this differently but I've walked away from an entire house and all it contains just to be free and done. It's just a jacket, and unless it has some major sentimental value, would you consider letting it, and all the emotional headache associated with this guy, go? To just be free and done with no loose ends? That would be my choice but of course not everyone sees it the same....
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Post by cherrycola on Nov 10, 2022 23:25:26 GMT
So this friendship is over. A few months ago he called me suddenly and he asked if I was available, I clearly communicated I wasn't home and was indeed busy. He then proceeded to ask me to pickup a Covid kit and drop it off. I felt awkward and said it would be quite late by the time I was done, which he didn't care about it... so I caved and said when I was finished I would do so. By the time I was done he sent me a text and said nevermind, he found someone else. I expressed concerned for him feeling better and that was it. I haven't heard from him since. I almost feel odd that I feel so little for this person now? I don't know if it is de-activating or what but I do not miss him. I do recognize that his insisting I pick up the test might have been protest behavior but I felt it was just another boundary violation. I was really proud of myself for not over explaining what I was doing. The only problem now is I left a jacket at his place, but I don't want to see him again. With how things ended, I am not sure if it is appropriate to ask him to drop it off on my porch. Part of me is annoyed that he hasn't reached out at all to arrange its return. So I guess I am being a bit emotionally immature but I am going to sit on this a bit longer Everyone approaches this differently but I've walked away from an entire house and all it contains just to be free and done. It's just a jacket, and unless it has some major sentimental value, would you consider letting it, and all the emotional headache associated with this guy, go? To just be free and done with no loose ends? That would be my choice but of course not everyone sees it the same.... A friend jokingly said "I guess you are going to need a new jacket" and I didn't disagree lol. It was one of my favorites and fit well but yeah, there is obviously baggage associated with trying to get it back. I think I am struggling with a mature adult would deal with this head on. And I always strive to be mature but if I'm examining my actions I'm definitely feeling stressed and resistance to dealing with it.
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