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Post by alexandra on Aug 26, 2022 19:57:53 GMT
Thanks for sharing! You are correct, those are FA/disorganized overall attachment style results. Solid secure is when secure is 60%+.
This is going to be a painful and confusing time, and I'm glad you want to use it as a learning experience. Hang in there!
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 30, 2022 9:28:01 GMT
He is an introvert. He has trouble discussing deep personal issues. He prefers people opening up while he keeps his cards close to his chest. He is very secretive and he would never leave his mobile unattended. Are all these typical FA behaviour? I believe everyone comes to our life as a teacher. I do not intend to go back to him but I like to learn from this experience. As an FA, these are not FA behaviors…however, I dated a narcissist who did these things.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 30, 2022 13:21:19 GMT
Have you had an ex with npd/BPD/aspd? Boundary violations, degrading treatment can affect our nervous system and our intuition may have been harmed by having been in a relationship with a narcissist ect. We can doubt, whether we can rely on our intuition afterwards. There has often been an overstepping of boundaries in the relationship Your own judgment and intuition has been manipulated. You are going to live in an alarm condition state in the relationship and after the relationship has ended. Chok trauma and unsertanty can get stuck in your nerveussystem. Therefore, it may be a good thing to get the trauma energy landed by an SE / attatchment therapist.(working on the instinktive level - reptile brain level) -talk therapy is often not enough.
Also working with boundaries and working on how to trust other people/a potentional partner again. There may have been a lot of jealousy, violations, accusations in the relationship.
Either you won't date again (given up state) or you will attract a new partner, who also will overstep your boundaries.
You can also try to find out if there has been any kind of crossed boundaries in your childhood. This can be the reason why you attract people who violates you
(An attatchment/SE/trauma therapist.)
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 30, 2022 17:13:30 GMT
Almost all my previous relationships were loving relationships so I know very well what a healthy relationship is like. However I met a narcissist a few years ago and he almost destroyed me. I did a lot of work to recover from it and when I met my FA ex I was in a good place again being secure and calm. I set healthy boundaries and my FA ex did his very best to work together with me. He was aware of his FA tendency and he tried hard to notice triggers and move towards being secure. I always wonder if I pushed him too hard. He did a lot of major works on his side and We were proud of what we achieved between us but he collapsed when he struggled to make commitment to move in together with me. perhaps I expected too much from him in just 10 months or perhaps he just needed more time. But then when a FA is fully activated there is no turning back and breakup is the only way to go I guess. It’s just tragic… So…I would encourage you to look at him as an individual rather than an attachment type. I am an FA and I have never demonstrated what you are describing. To me…it sounds way more narcissistic than FA. All insecurely attached individuals can display narcissistic characteristics at times. It is because of a lack of tools from our childhood. What I would suggest doing is to explore your own attraction to insecure men…such as the prior narc and this guy. That way, you take back the power to choose better partners in the future.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 30, 2022 19:03:09 GMT
Someone with narcissistic personality disorder totally lacks empathy. Everything is about them. They also lack object constancy and see everyone as an extension of themselves and not their own person. Someone with an FA attachment style may lack empathy when triggered but it is not their baseline, and they can see if they acted poorly once the triggering has passed. They may still be selfish and have higher narcissistic tendencies than most people, depending on the individual and how dysfunctional their emotional tools and defense mechanisms are (true for anyone too not just FA), but they are not narcissists.
Avoidant personality disorder is something different and pretty rare. It's not an attachment style thing.
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Post by sunrisequest on Aug 31, 2022 1:30:07 GMT
Hi annalee Your story has so many similarities to mine - you can go back and read it if that helps to see the journey? Our relationship had a very similar trajectory in terms of having an amazing strong connection, similar values, we massively enjoyed the time we spent together, had so much in common, we seemed to be so in love and committed, he also inspired me massively in terms of his career and his interests and ideas about the world. But it happened quite regularly that he would suggest we finish the relationship, and always after I had brought up something that required a deeper discussion about our relationship. But he would always come back after each time he retreated with big apologies, saying he was just scared and was determined to work on his stuff, which he quite openly acknowledged and was getting counselling etc to try and work on... Near the very end, he also broke up wth me over a text saying he needed to work on himself and couldn't be in a relationship with anyone, but then he came back again some weeks later... only to cheat and end it again in a really cruel way that has taken many months for me to truly heal. So what I'm trying to say is that this cycle that goes around and around, it has the potential to get worse and worse as time goes on and intimacy deepens but dysfunctional patterns haven't been interrupted. Better to leave it alone now because the next round could be even more devastating. In hindsight, I definitely recognised some narc type traits in my ex, although to be honest with you, the flavour I got from him was more of a quiet borderline personality type.. he doesn't have the grandiose approach to anything, and his low self worth, shame and guilt for the way he sometimes acts, and his abandonment wounds are huge and very much on the surface, plus he did a lot of mirroring and showing me what he thought I wanted to see instead of who he actually was, plus idealising me and then devaluing me.... before the final discard where it's like he was a different person completely! But while I recognise these traits now and it was helpful for me to pick it apart a little bit, I'm not sure it's too helpful to get hung on the labels of it all too much. FA / NPD / BPD, but also all the other flavours of insecure attachment - all of it is unhealthy behaviour that is coming from an unhealed place, and has the potential to be very damaging within a relationship. I empathise with you about the feelings of it being a tragedy to lose a relationship that felt so connected, and to have someone turn on a dime and act like a totally different person when you'd gotten used to who you thought they were. It's a real mind-bender and you really need to work at keeping a realistic view of your relationship in your head - knowing there were problems and things you were facing, but there was also a whole other level of emotional turmoil and shame and fear that your ex was probably keeping away from you. Sometimes we don't want to see what's under the surface, and will ignore the red flags because we don't want to lose the relationship. It's easy to wonder whether we could have said something differently/done something differently in order to keep it, but I think in many cases, in order to keep a relationship that is in hinged on that much insecurity, you really have to abandon yourself and your own needs. I think it's comforting to think about the good times as real... but recognise it wasn't the whole picture. It's now about working through those layers of grief and sadness... it's not easy because you're grieving the idea of something that you thought you were going to have, something you wanted, something that had the potential to be really special... My heart goes out to you because I understand this feeling. But I also see that the reality would most likely not have played out in this way, and focusing on yourself and your own needs is the only way to move forwards.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 31, 2022 6:03:15 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 31, 2022 8:34:23 GMT
Hi sunrisequest, thanks for sharing your story. How long you’re together for and how many times he broke up with you and when was the first time he tried to breakup? I need to open up and see what I failed to see previously. I was working along with a therapist over the whole period of my relationship with the FA ex and I constantly questioned about the FA’s behaviour and why things were so hard in the relationship. A few times I wanted to give up but my therapist encouraged me to stay to work things out with him because she felt that the FA ex didn’t demonstrate any sign of narcissistic personality and he was genuinely struggling and he was sincerely working hard with me on the relationship. Regardless, he in the end hurt me deeply and base on this very fact I need to move on and take care of myself. I was quite angry at my therapist and I quit without saying goodbye. Being here on this forum helps me to see your stories and they ground me to reality. Your stories have given me the courage the make bold decisions to move on. I stop having fantasy. Perhaps I’m being too pessimistic… please can anyone tell me if there is ONE single success story that a DA or FA Avoidant has completely changed and now they are in a fulfilling and healthy relationship? I know several friends who have worked on themselves, earned secure and have successful relationships. These friends worked very hard in therapy to understand the trauma from their past and develop new healthy skills and tools….but it takes years of therapy. Also, the guy I last dated who had at the time an avoidant leaning FA attachment is married with children. I have not spoken to him but I understand he is doing well with his wife. I think what is a bit lost in your story is treating him as if he is his attachment style and not as a person who experienced trauma and is insecure. No one is born with FA, DA or AP attachments…these develop during the youngest phases of childhood as a result of the relationship to the parents. He isn’t FA…he is “(his name) with attachment wounding”. The whole point of understanding someone else’s attachment style is to better understand your own. Right now, the trauma you are experiencing is causing a loop of questions about him. The focus really needs to shift back to you. Have you discussed these feelings and concerns with your therapist? youngest
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Post by sunrisequest on Aug 31, 2022 11:07:39 GMT
Hi sunrisequest, thanks for sharing your story. How long you’re together for and how many times he broke up with you and when was the first time he tried to breakup? I need to open up and see what I failed to see previously. I was working along with a therapist over the whole period of my relationship with the FA ex and I constantly questioned about the FA’s behaviour and why things were so hard in the relationship. A few times I wanted to give up but my therapist encouraged me to stay to work things out with him because she felt that the FA ex didn’t demonstrate any sign of narcissistic personality and he was genuinely struggling and he was sincerely working hard with me on the relationship. Regardless, he in the end hurt me deeply and base on this very fact I need to move on and take care of myself. I was quite angry at my therapist and I quit without saying goodbye. Being here on this forum helps me to see your stories and they ground me to reality. Your stories have given me the courage the make bold decisions to move on. I stop having fantasy. Perhaps I’m being too pessimistic… please can anyone tell me if there is ONE single success story that a DA or FA Avoidant has completely changed and now they are in a fulfilling and healthy relationship? We were together for 9 months, we broke up for a few days/weeks twice in that time I think, but he suggested it probably another 4-5 times beyond that as well. He first suggested it after about a month... but in almost all of the instances, he said afterwards that he was saying it because he wanted me to fight for him, wanted to hear that I didn't want to lose him etc. It was his abandonment wounds speaking in these instances... when there was something to talk about in the relationship, he would panic thinking I was going to end it... even though I kept reassuring him that's not where my head was at whatsoever... and he would jump in there first and sabotage, which is his way of controlling the situation. I do think the pressure my ex felt to 'heal' his issues was immense and in the end too overwhelming. Which I absolutely understand. It would feel very confronting to think the only way you can be happy with your partner is to change certain things about yourself and your behaviour. And even though he was the one saying he wanted to make these changes and and asking me to be patient while he worked on himself, I can see it would have made much more sense for me to accept where he was at and figure out if that was okay with me or not... not a future version of him. And where he was at was not okay with me. I need a higher level of communication and emotional maturity. And I need someone who doesn't threaten to walk away when problems arise. Highly avoidant behaviour also doesn't work for me. For sure, learning your part in things is always worth spending the time on. It's so useful for your future relationships. There is definitely a level of control going on when you stay in relationship with someone who needs to change a lot in order to be with you... also willingness to put up with a lot of drama and unhealthy dynamics is something to look at. It's a shame your therapist was leading you away from your intuition... though it's not always an easy task to differentiate between intuition and your wounding... both can present as discomfort and fight or flight-type symptoms. For some people, the tendency to run away does need to be withstood sometimes, so if you have an FA tendency, perhaps that's why she suggested that. Wishing you good luck for the unravelling of it all and for healing and moving forwards.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 20:50:45 GMT
I’ve given some serious thoughts over Avoidant or narcissist? This article is a good starting point to look at… exploringyourmind.com/narcissism-and-avoidant-attachment-in-relationships/In summary… the main difference between narcissism and avoidant attachment is the way empathy operates. An avoidant person may be aware of their difficulties and try not to harm the other, even seeking help or undertaking therapy to find a solution. On the contrary, a narcissist will never admit their mistakes, problems, or abusive behavior. They’ll simply blame and accuse their partner and won’t ask for help or seek change. I want to weigh in on this speculation about narcissism vs avoidant, and add that the last sentence there is what a Ive seen over and over again from anxious attached on this forum. So let's remember that it's up to professionals interacting directly with an individual to diagnose a personality disorder. In every case of a relationship gone wrong it's helpful to understand the other person to *some degree, but what I note here is that you didn't trust yourself to make your own decisions in your own best interest. In my opinion a therapist shouldn't push you one way or the other and it sounds like yours encouraged you to stick it out even as you had serious doubts? Maybe I misunderstand. But either way, you have some traumatic history with a narc and now this relationship to examine your own unhealthy habits. That's what is going to bet you some real answers as to what happened and how you can prevent it in future relationships. Best of luck!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 21:03:24 GMT
Hi sunrisequest, thanks for sharing your story. How long you’re together for and how many times he broke up with you and when was the first time he tried to breakup? I need to open up and see what I failed to see previously. I was working along with a therapist over the whole period of my relationship with the FA ex and I constantly questioned about the FA’s behaviour and why things were so hard in the relationship. A few times I wanted to give up but my therapist encouraged me to stay to work things out with him because she felt that the FA ex didn’t demonstrate any sign of narcissistic personality and he was genuinely struggling and he was sincerely working hard with me on the relationship. Regardless, he in the end hurt me deeply and base on this very fact I need to move on and take care of myself. I was quite angry at my therapist and I quit without saying goodbye. Being here on this forum helps me to see your stories and they ground me to reality. Your stories have given me the courage the make bold decisions to move on. I stop having fantasy. Perhaps I’m being too pessimistic… please can anyone tell me if there is ONE single success story that a DA or FA Avoidant has completely changed and now they are in a fulfilling and healthy relationship? Yes, there are avoidantly attached individuals that move on to heal and have healthier relationships. If you read some studies you migh be surprised to learn that avoidants can make the shift a little easier in some cases than an anxious person because of the difference in the locus of control in each type. Anyway, I'm formerly DA primarily, moving toward secure and in a healthy relationship. In no case can one partner lay all the blame for a relationship demise on the other partner.... an insecure dynamic takes two. If you have had more than one failed relationship with an emotionally unavailable man it's an indication that you are not functioning optimally on an emotional level and need to focus on where your own blind spots are compromising your relationship security.
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Post by sunrisequest on Sept 1, 2022 1:22:16 GMT
Hi Sunrisequest, I am sorry that you went through all these ups and downs. In my situation, we never left each other unless there was a major unresolvable situation. The first time i initiated the breakup and we reconciled a few days later. This time i wanted to overcome my fear so i stayed put but when he broke up with me and wanted to remain friends then I just wanted out, i cut him off in every single way. What are my lessons? I think your lessons in this are very individual and something that can only really be worked out by you, perhaps with the help of a therapist? I show up as mainly secure in relationships these days, but there are still things that trigger me... I'm aware now of when my anxious attachment is flaring even if it's just internally and not translating to behaviour. I did a lot of reading about my own attachment style to truly understand how it can show up in relationships, but I'd previously done a lot of work on boundaries and communicating my needs in a healthy way... so despite all of this, it was humbling to have to work through what led me to hang out in a relationship that was so unstable for 9 months. But I'm really grateful for those lessons... it cracked a part of me open really wide so I could have a look at some really deep-seated stuff and shift it out of the way for future relationships. I have no doubt more will pop up in my next relationship! But I do think it helps to have a set of counsellors/therapists that you trust completely.. perhaps that's somewhere you could make a change as it sounds like you had a difficult experience with yours?
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