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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 18:40:04 GMT
I dearly wanted to adopt a child (or have another). I am still in great pain over this -- that I lost my chance at that. I'm still working on that pain. Rather than just say "Well that was the past, no need to understand it, just move on," it really helps me to understand what happened there. Did I really not want another kid and that's why I was willing to throw away my chance on him? I think this is simpler than you're allowing it to be as well. You knew he was totally emotionally unsafe for both you and a young child to have another kid with. Being a single mother with two kids, especially since one is special needs, is much more difficult than with one, and you didn't have another partner on the horizon. I think you knew deep down it was more important to protect yourself and a future child from him than to bring another person into that crazy-making and traumatic situation, so you made the choice to let the opportunity pass by. Which I think was the correct one than tie yourself to him for another 18 years. And if you're actually asking why you didn't leave him earlier to find a different partner for a child, I can see a lot of (subconscious) answers to that: didn't think you deserved better, didn't think you'd be able to meet someone in time, afraid you'd choose another guy just as bad, etc. All fear-based and steeped in insecurity. The fact you are still processing that you didn't have a second child years later is very normal to insecure attachment styles, btw. They stop you from fully emotionally processing issues and you get stuck forever, unable to move forward, unless you work through trauma and security. FAs especially hate losing any options and have a really tough time with doors closing. It's also in line with disconnection from self, so processing is difficult anyway when you don't know how you feel in general. But it's kind of more about you can't get yourself through all the stages of grief, and get stuck in one or more. All insecure attachment styles have this emotional processing issue, having at some point been born out of trauma. The early trauma often needs to be at least somewhat healed or addressed to unlock the ability to move forward, but that's scary and pushed down for a reason so it's not easy.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 18:58:28 GMT
seeking , the simple answer is, you are FA. FA tends to lean to a dominant side, a set of coping mechanisms that are more anxious (AP) or avoidant (DA), but the overall disorganization is there due to your background of trauma. I can't tell you if you have more than insecure attachment issues going on, though FA also comes with things like C-PTSD and ADHD correlated with it. Thanks, Alexandra. This is fascinating and the very first I've heard this FA with c-ptsd and adhd. Makes sense, but do you have a resource if I wanted to learn more about this for myself? I'm also eyes wide open about being FA. Surprised and not. I feel very FA most of the time but can really act AP. I guess based on this post, what I'm wondering - and again if we were to very much generalize here - not diagnose or anything like that -- if ex is FA? Under all the bipolar/narc/autism, is that would he would seem like? Or maybe DA. . . Well, my question is, two FAs can dance like this? I guess one would play more the AP then, which was me. I feel like my FA must have been hiding under that. And then for him to be in a relationship with someone for 6 solid years (no breaks that I know of) - well, I used to think she fell somewhere in a secure spectrum. She seems like she could, but I'm sure I'm wrong there. Again, this isn't to so much do processing and therapy with me here and diagnose people, but understanding some of the attachment styles - and pieces like what you said about ADHD/C-PTSD is enormously helpful to me in just grasping things as I'm here processing and writing through my story and piecing things together.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 19:11:19 GMT
I think it's very interesting that you told him you both were like addicts, but then you said you don't know what you meant by that. It's absolutely true though, co-dependency, love addiction, intermittent reinforcement addiction patterns. You're right. I knew why I said this. In fact, just the other day, I told my therapist my "drug" is relationships or maybe it *was* men - but now seems to even be just a dynamic that gets created with just about anyone. I am around a huge community of people in different groups on a regular basis - I can smell someone a mile away who the dynamics will go this way with. Some I can avoid - even though they "seem like such nice people." Some I know right away are toxic, and I now avoid. Others I get involved with (even just female friends) and I have to put the brakes on and end things. This happened a year ago and then again recently. I've written about those friendships here. So, yes, my "addict" part comes out that uses these interactions to avoid myself and "cope" just like I would drugs or alcohol, food or sex or shopping or any of it. It's confusing and hard. I just ended a connection with someone I really liked, but our dynamic sucked. And I want to be sober right now. So I am. And soberly trying to look back at things like I would in AA - who I harmed, what actually happened, why. All through sober eyes - not a victim lens, not even a "bypassing" lens. And that's why I am sharing this here. I trust you guys and your feedback and I'm gearing up to talk about this more in therapy. I have trust issues, clearly, and mistrust of people's own ideas of what happened. But I can say for sure that when someone gives feedback and I feel it in my own body as true, I know I can trust it. My therapist - after a year now - has become that for me. I've been hesitant to talk to narcissist coaches or anyone like that because I feel like they're so eager to be like, "Yep, that's a narc." And then, naturally, I'm the victim. But I'd really like to just see things at a higher-level view and all those label aside, the language of attachment really helps me more than anything. Anyway, so yes. I told him that - we were addicts, and it was time to get sober. I was ready, able, and willing to do that work. He went on and got another person pregnant. And here we are, 6 years later.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 19:13:42 GMT
People with cluster B personality disorders tend to be addicted to validation, so act in set dynamics as well. Exploring your side of that comment with your therapist is worth doing. Can you help me understand what you mean here. It sounds like what you're saying is I might be addicted to validation? I'm not sure what "act in set dynamics" means, but are you suggesting I might be cluster-B? Is that what you're suggesting I talk to my therapist about? My tone here isn't meant to be confrontational. I just read this line 3 times and am not sure what you're saying is all. And if that's the case, I've known for a while that I could probably have fit a borderline description with my ex, for sure. Although I don't identify as that so much - really as long as I'm not in a toxic soup with someone, I don't. So I avoid toxic soups. But as far as borderline, I've come to also see it as synonymous with C-PTSD, and there seems to be less shame in that for many. I'm working on relational trauma all the time, and so I think I'm doing mostly what I can. But I'm having a hard time imagining how I'd be addicted to validation when I feel like I get none in the first place or, if I do, I feel immediate shame and like I want to hide. I have rarely been "validated" around being a single parent to a special needs kid. Or having been in abusive relationships, or having a past history of abuse. I am only now trying to validate it for myself by first understanding what even happened-- so that I can have better boundaries with people or "speak my truth" and not minimize things and bypass them like I have come to do for years, and which only hurts me and perpetuates the PTSD.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 19:28:31 GMT
I dearly wanted to adopt a child (or have another). I am still in great pain over this -- that I lost my chance at that. I'm still working on that pain. Rather than just say "Well that was the past, no need to understand it, just move on," it really helps me to understand what happened there. Did I really not want another kid and that's why I was willing to throw away my chance on him? I think this is simpler than you're allowing it to be as well. You knew he was totally emotionally unsafe for both you and a young child to have another kid with. Being a single mother with two kids, especially since one is special needs, is much more difficult than with one, and you didn't have another partner on the horizon. I think you knew deep down it was more important to protect yourself and a future child from him than to bring another person into that crazy-making and traumatic situation, so you made the choice to let the opportunity pass by. Which I think was the correct one than tie yourself to him for another 18 years. And if you're actually asking why you didn't leave him earlier to find a different partner for a child, I can see a lot of (subconscious) answers to that: didn't think you deserved better, didn't think you'd be able to meet someone in time, afraid you'd choose another guy just as bad, etc. All fear-based and steeped in insecurity. The fact you are still processing that you didn't have a second child years later is very normal to insecure attachment styles, btw. They stop you from fully emotionally processing issues and you get stuck forever, unable to move forward, unless you work through trauma and security. FAs especially hate losing any options and have a really tough time with doors closing. It's also in line with disconnection from self, so processing is difficult anyway when you don't know how you feel in general. But it's kind of more about you can't get yourself through all the stages of grief, and get stuck in one or more. All insecure attachment styles have this emotional processing issue, having at some point been born out of trauma. The early trauma often needs to be at least somewhat healed or addressed to unlock the ability to move forward, but that's scary and pushed down for a reason so it's not easy. This is spot on. I'm super bad at all the grief stages. I'm working on that. Mostly I cope by numbing. So I'm trying to feel some of it without falling apart. I never "fall apart." Even at my worst, I hold it together. I don't know that that's a good thing, necessarily. But I was honestly terrified of having another kid with him. Too entrapping. It didn't stop me from wanting another kid though - and more so, a family. I don't know if I wrote this b/c I think I had another response that I didn't post - but I'll just post it here. It's about the sobbing I did recently watching people who adopt post a video. It was the deepest I've cried in a long time and spontaneous - like it just felt like it came out of nowhere. So I guess that's the grief. And so interesting about FA and getting stuck. I've been working on early trauma and, yes, the more I do, the more I'm finding I can move forward. Thanks again.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 19:29:47 GMT
This is what I was going to write earlier but didn't. FWIW at this point.
I'm doing deep IFS work with a therapist who doesn't even know about all this - because I came in to work on a phobia (which is PTSD related). Even as I read your thoughts, I have disbelief. And I think that's been the most painful, surreal aspect of this experience -- the "is this real?"
But not believing it does so much damage to me.
I'm great at bypassing. I can bypass left and right. But I'm realizing that for my healing I need to actually stop and see things -- whether it's my own childhood, my own past history, this relationship. I have profound grief over not having more children. I'm obsessed with people who adopt and watch and read their stories. Yesterday, one of my favorite people who adopts special needs kids posted a video and I watched it twice and both times I broke down deeply sobbing. This may sound unrelated - but it's like I'm cut off from something in my self. And I don't want to be anymore.
I worked with my therapist recently on an old friend who keeps resurfacing and breaking boundaries - i.e. going to other people I know and trying to get them to allow her into a group I already said a hard no to. And I was all ready to make up with her and "maybe it wasn't so bad." And my therapist was like "Woah woah woah." So I am looking at that right now but I've done it everywhere. Minimize my experience and accept other people's realities while negating my own.
Even down to my daughter's autism. I pretend with everyone that she is just a normie kid. She's not by any stretch. Our lives are shaped by it. Her life is. And I do all I can to support her.
A lot of this stuff is "invisible" - my daughter while if you looked at her at times, you'd know - but in certain situations, she does seem like a normal kid. My ex never hit me. No bruises. If I explain this stuff to people, they say he's crazy and glad you got away from him but they won't acknowledge abuse. And not that I want to be a victim, but it's hard when my reality is not only not represented (even in myself) but also the confusion over him being this normal dad now with a bunch of kids and living in a house with a normal job - like I've never seen. He couldn't do that for a full week when we were together- nevermind the almost 6 years now that they've been together.
A close friend of mine suggested it's all her running the show. It's her energy, her strength. Someone else once suggested she may never know what is happening, but she'll know when she ends up with a chronic illness (like I did when I was with him) or PTSD and maybe not even know why. And then another friend - the one who observed that "Every time I get back on my feet, he takes me down again" said "You stopped being good supply." (I wrote that to someone in another post here).
My ex was over visiting our kid and I have a playground in front of my house. They had their kids with them, and the baby - and the two of them were walking outside my window. It was surreal. I talked to my friend and he was like "Can you name what you feel?" I couldn't. I think I was just numb. It was like the scene of any normal parents with kids at the playground. He was walking beside her (he never walked alongside me - always ahead or behind). And my friend said, "You know what this means? It just means you no longer make good supply."
I do still feel like things are my fault though. Even as I sat here after writing all this - I thought, I was the one who put up an online dating profile. I know he saw it. Maybe that is what drove him to this other woman (they met online). It's all my fault. But I know it's not. I used to shout at him and slam doors and walk out of the house - he loves to portray me as the psycho ex-girlfriend, and I know that's what this new woman believes about me.
But I'm also looking at how a lot of this was born out of early family dynamics - I was the crazy one, the weird one, the sensitive one who wanted too much from other people. My family loves me but doesn't really get me or like me that much as a person. My dad was violent. So yeah it's all in there.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 19:46:43 GMT
People with cluster B personality disorders tend to be addicted to validation, so act in set dynamics as well. Exploring your side of that comment with your therapist is worth doing. Can you help me understand what you mean here. It sounds like what you're saying is I might be addicted to validation? This was in reference to your ex's side of addiction, not you. FA do seek validation, since they distrust self and have a weak sense of self and disconnection to self, but not to a pathological degree.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 19:55:33 GMT
I don't personally know much about complex PTSD, but others on this forum have recommended Pete Walkers book "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" before.
The ADHD thing has been studied in research, but I believe it's in progress still. It's just something that has been correlated with FA. Something you can also discuss with your therapist, since they should have a better idea if you have traits of ADHD or not. Not every FA person has ADHD, there's just a higher incidence of it.
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Post by seeking on Jan 22, 2023 2:38:11 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra - I have that book; haven't read it. I do know a little more about C-PTSD and ADHD - attachment styles still confuse me.
I didn't mean so much an official study about ADHD and FA, but more that I just hadn't made that connection and wanted to learn more. It does describe my mother, so that explains some things. She has severe ADHD and by comparison I never though of myself as having it (she is not diagnosed). But in recent years I am starting to see it in myself more and more. I do think it's also driven by trauma - and the more trauma she's endured, the worse it gets, and same for me.
I think that's why my ex was so triggering -- not that my mom is in any way a narc, but just for someone to attend to me in a way that is common courtesy - eye contact, paying attention, listening. My mom is quick, dismissive, and has a hard time with conversation. She can't sit still. My ex also could be that way and I basically spent most of my life feeling wrong and "too much" and too needy so it's weird to think of myself as FA! But I can definitely see it.
As for the earlier thing - my ex did not seem to be addicted to validation, but I don't know. He was kind of a loner - I mean that's where the Aspberger's showed up, I think. He would have a couple friends from work or here and there, but I do think that his chosen lifestyle of being a dad and having a house and partner makes him feel validated - that he is a good person and nothing is wrong.
But yeah, the FA side I can relate to. I just need people to help me "See" (or validate, I guess) my reality - which was the whole impetus of this thread. Because I have a lot of distrust about what I'm perceiving and where my observations are coming from in me.
Thanks again for your input.
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Post by introvert on Jan 22, 2023 3:16:47 GMT
seeking, I agree with alexandra analysis of and reference to my post. You said you were interested in ANY feedback, and so it's kind if a trap in my opinion. You really aren't. I was vulnerable about my own situation just as alexandra pointed out. What I've learned from your threads is its best to steer clear, because you seem primed to feel attacked no matter how I approach you. I haven't posted my whole life here but I have been in horrible situations with exes that I have children with, I am still in contact... and I still stand by what I said. I have come out of a deep freeze and been through a process and learned what I learned. I've been there. If what I said isn't valuable that's cool but the very title of this thread invited any feedback. I don't have a history of beating people up on the board and I didn't do that here.
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Post by seeking on Jan 22, 2023 4:00:55 GMT
seeking , I agree with alexandra analysis of and reference to my post. You said you were interested in ANY feedback, and so it's kind if a trap in my opinion. You really aren't. I was vulnerable about my own situation just as alexandra pointed out. What I've learned from your threads is its best to steer clear, because you seem primed to feel attacked no matter how I approach you. I haven't posted my whole life here but I have been in horrible situations with exes that I have children with, I am still in contact... and I still stand by what I said. I have come out of a deep freeze and been through a process and learned what I learned. I've been there. If what I said isn't valuable that's cool but the very title of this thread invited any feedback. I don't have a history of beating people up on the board and I didn't do that here. Okay
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Post by anne12 on Jan 22, 2023 12:30:57 GMT
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Post by seeking on Jan 22, 2023 16:01:33 GMT
This is helpful and valuable, thank you Annie!
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 23, 2023 2:13:40 GMT
I was going to suggest narcissism….I would see ton of posts on “it’s all about him” of women who were ”rushed” into marriage/ starting a family so that he could “lock” her in. In any case, I agree with alexandra that there is more then an attachment issue going on. I also agree that his new gf is no better…her issues just mesh better with his. Is there a particular trait or description here that would make you think that? I'm just curious so I can wrap my brain around it a little. I'll also check out that forum. his GF was abandoned by her mom when she was a kid. I could not see him with anyone healthy, secure, etc. But she pulls it off well. She seems to have it all together, but I am not in their house and don't see what's really going on. I have never seen any discussion here per say about pushing another person to have a child, but I read plenty of threads about this type of “rushing” on th narcissist page. My old therapist was once married to a narc and her perspective was that narcs push for children and marriage to lock in supply. Not necessarily from the partner when the push is for children, but from the children. He may not be fully NPD but his actions are outside of what I have understood to be any general insecure attachment.
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Post by seeking on Jan 23, 2023 3:42:24 GMT
Is there a particular trait or description here that would make you think that? I'm just curious so I can wrap my brain around it a little. I'll also check out that forum. his GF was abandoned by her mom when she was a kid. I could not see him with anyone healthy, secure, etc. But she pulls it off well. She seems to have it all together, but I am not in their house and don't see what's really going on. I have never seen any discussion here per say about pushing another person to have a child, but I read plenty of threads about this type of “rushing” on th narcissist page. My old therapist was once married to a narc and her perspective was that narcs push for children and marriage to lock in supply. Not necessarily from the partner when the push is for children, but from the children. He may not be fully NPD but his actions are outside of what I have understood to be any general insecure attachment. That's what I arrived at. Turns out, I wasn't very good supply. And he had a fit about it. Lots of histrionic "I don't want to be here anymore," and threats. And control, withholding resources from us. I also called him on his stuff. Even though in the beginning I fell for him, and he ate that up. I was also passive, codependent and insecure - so in that way I made halfway good supply. But this person he's with now had a boatload of it - a widow, financially secure, her children are taken care of, she's not particularly needy--and somehow very willing to overlook all his mental illness, unemployment, deadbeat aspirations, inability to really function, etc. She's 10 years younger than me and has been with him longer than I was ever able to stay. And she still seems to have a lot of stamina. But, yes, as far as your assessment, I agree- he is NPD leaning or at the very least emotionally abusive.
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