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Post by dwilliams on Aug 8, 2023 19:56:10 GMT
The question is not whether a person with avoidant attachment can move toward secure attachment... of course they can, it's not a personality disorder or mental illness. The question here is, will this particular person move toward secure attachment. She's broken up with you, downgraded you, and is currently testing the waters without discussing and clarifying with you, so that means she's moving toward attachment, but insecurely,and who knows for how long. So far, she's played a bunch of plays in the insecure playbook, run the relationship on her insecure whims, and had another insecure person to play along and let her be ambiguous and get away with it. Getting some clear answers from her, and answers for yourself, is the right move. I don't disagree with any of this. I am quite aware that I've been an enabler for her to play from the insecure playbook. I let it go on for almost four months because I wanted to understand our relationship dynamics so as to improve them. I knew nothing I could say or do, without a better understanding, was going to help. Studying avoidant attachment has given me knowledge, and the insight that I need to look at and improve my own attachment issues and hopefully through that, encourage her to address her attachment issues. I don't really feel like I'm insecure about the relationship so much. I love it in many ways (I get fantastic sex and some social activities from her) and dancing (my passion) from a dance partner. Most times, I've actually felt on top of the world with this arrangement. But I've known all along that because I do love her and I know she loves me, I do want the benefits that come with a more secure connection. So, again, yes, I have enabled her behavior but only because I needed the time to understand the dynamics and decide on a course of action instead of just reacting stupidly, trying to blame it all on her, and trying to change her. I know that will not happen. My preference is of course (and I've gotten ideas now) get her to move toward a secure attachment by showing her I'm working on myself. But if that proves impossible, if she shows no interest in working on herself, I will walk. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 8, 2023 22:21:39 GMT
My preference is of course (and I've gotten ideas now) get her to move toward a secure attachment by showing her I'm working on myself. But if that proves impossible, if she shows no interest in working on herself, I will walk. Your approach makes sense, but be cautious that you actually stick to the boundaries you're giving yourself instead of making excuses to stay attached and in the situation if you decide it's ultimately not working for you. It is next to impossible to influence someone else's issues and attachment style, things just don't really work that way. The only time there's progress in that approach is because the other person coincidentally is on that path already and wants to make those changes on their own. Then having good examples and secure models helps. But if they are not at that point, nothing you can do is going to influence them to get there on your timetable or possibly at all. So there's a balance between you're gaining an experience and understanding of these dynamics but still putting yourself first in a realistic way with healthy boundaries. In other words, you're being honest with yourself about if your needs are being met and not just giving things time to ultimately not progress if needs aren't being met. If you yourself truly want to explore and change and grow in a direction of tolerating ambivalence and openness without real commitment, then being in a situation that does not meet your needs and is out of your comfort zone can bend you in that direction... but that's a choice for you to make, not for someone else who wants that to make it for you when you actually want different things from each other. Because think of it this way. You're now in this position because it's what she wants. Has that actually changed what you want to mesh with her desires, or are you still holding out for her to come around to your way of thinking? The way I read your posts, it is the latter, even though you're trying to play by her rules to figure it out. But it doesn't change what's underlying for you, if you change it's because YOU want to. So, view her the same way. She's not actually changing you by setting her example, and you doing the same in her direction is unlikely to move the needle either. That's kind of the trick with attachment styles. They all have different needs and different styles often don't have needs that fit together. And while I am personally of the opinion that earning secure and wanting a secure partner is the way to go, having personally experienced all sides of this and the stress and pain that comes with insecure attachment styles, who am I to change someone else? In the same way, who are they to change me if I didn't ask for it? |
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ohboy
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Post by ohboy on Aug 13, 2023 23:56:54 GMT
Actually the Fearful Avoidant also known as Disorganized is a combo of Dismissive Avoidance and Preoccupied avoidant. That's what makes them so challenging because they can change up on you. I'm a healing DA so I can tell you the secret about the personal lawsuit is no surprise. We keep secrets because we have created the persona of having it all together, when we don't and are terrified that you are going to find out that we are not who we claim to be and won't like us. We open up and trust very very slowly. We keep secrets and are terrified of losing control and feeling helpless. I can tell you that until I began to heal once of my biggest triggers was feeling controlled. I my partner made "demands" was critical, etc, I would vaguely communicate my discomfort if at all. I would just stone wall or be passive aggressive because I was terrier that it was going to turn into a huge conflict.........which I avoided like the plague.
Sounds to me like she is trying to control the relationship......that it happens on her terms. A DA would move into a relationship cautiously and very slowly. (I dated my husband for 8 years before I would marry him. But conversely the Preoccupied Avoidant jumps right in to a relationship since they desperately want connection. But then they get scared and go into this I love you, I'm scared of you roller coaster ride that can take on a life of its own.
So her behavior at any given time could be avoidant or preoccupied..............challenging. The game changer will only come when she becomes aware of how her childhood preprogramming is impacting every aspect of her life
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huji
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Post by huji on Aug 14, 2023 14:22:13 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 14, 2023 20:49:22 GMT
Actually the Fearful Avoidant also known as Disorganized is a combo of Dismissive Avoidance and Preoccupied avoidant. That's what makes them so challenging because they can change up on you. I'm a healing DA so I can tell you the secret about the personal lawsuit is no surprise. We keep secrets because we have created the persona of having it all together, when we don't and are terrified that you are going to find out that we are not who we claim to be and won't like us. We open up and trust very very slowly. We keep secrets and are terrified of losing control and feeling helpless. I can tell you that until I began to heal once of my biggest triggers was feeling controlled. I my partner made "demands" was critical, etc, I would vaguely communicate my discomfort if at all. I would just stone wall or be passive aggressive because I was terrier that it was going to turn into a huge conflict.........which I avoided like the plague. Sounds to me like she is trying to control the relationship......that it happens on her terms. A DA would move into a relationship cautiously and very slowly. (I dated my husband for 8 years before I would marry him. But conversely the Preoccupied Avoidant jumps right in to a relationship since they desperately want connection. But then they get scared and go into this I love you, I'm scared of you roller coaster ride that can take on a life of its own. So her behavior at any given time could be avoidant or preoccupied..............challenging. The game changer will only come when she becomes aware of how her childhood preprogramming is impacting every aspect of her life Actually…it is dismissive avoidant and preoccupied anxious. This is why a fearful avoidant swings between avoidance and anxiousness. Too close and too far. And it isn’t controlling the relationship as much as it is controlling her nervous system through controlling how close or far the other person is. And it is a trauma response which is automatic/instinctual and without any true “thought” behind it. Consider the home environment where love is both desired but scary….that is the beginning for someone with FA. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2023 21:00:42 GMT
Very large difference between Dismissive and Fearful avoidant mechanisms.
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ohboy
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Post by ohboy on Aug 15, 2023 15:10:48 GMT
As a healing DA with a former FA partner I can tell you that you need to focus on yourself and on your own healing.
I began seeing a therapist because I felt numb after having just finished a grueling job thru Covid and I wanted to understand why I would let myself go thru that. It lead me straight to my childhood (which mentally I had white-washed and then to attachment theory.
I shared everything about my therapy with my partner as I learned about who I was and what I experienced as a child and how it impacted me as an adult. He would ask about my sessions, but honestly there didn't seem to any real deep curiosity or interest. I shared books and exercises that had been given to me by my therapist........although a prolific reader, he did not pick up one book that I gave him.
Although he acknowledged that in many ways I had indeed changed, he clearly didn't have any curiosity. When I say changed I mean really changed. I emotions came back to the surface and I had a voice, conflict avoidance although still inherently uncomfortable changed and most importantly my health improved significantly.
I have nothing but compassion and sometimes sadness for those who are willfully or unconsciously still stuck in the trauma prison cause I was there for many years thinking I was perfectly normal that this was just my personality. The love between me and my FA partner and being baffled and confused by our repeated circle of conflict was the catalyst that not only blew open Pandoras box it destroyed the box, I had no where to hid.......this is when my true journey began
I say all this to say, don't have any expectations. Focus on yourself. Its not about changing yourself its about knowing yourself
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