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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 16:08:33 GMT
@introvert I'm trying to understand why that is and if its down to her issues with menopause etc... I'm happy to accept that but want to understand whether it was me or timing/circumstance. I am effectively saying that I'm not going to run after her anymore as I have laid all my cards on the table and its not enough.... Now I could be shooting myself in the foot and ruin all connection at any level but it is difficult to sit back and do nothing. Do you suggest I just walk away, no communication and just leave her be? I suggest you accept what she has told you and grow up. Your last post did me in, frankly. She said she wants to navigate very difficult challenges on her own, and the rest isn't any of your business. I can see here that you are willing to push her boundaries and second guess her choices for her. It's not all about you. She's a grown woman who has made a decision about her body and her relationship and you will need to be a mature man and develop some respect for her autonomy and her STATED NEEDS which is to be SINGLE. That means SINGLE. She's not an embicile, she's not out of her mind, she's not deranged or mistaken, she made a decision like a grown woman.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 16:11:06 GMT
You are NOT happy to accept it. Clearly. You are trying to decipher and change it, and make it about what you want instead of what she has clearly told you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 16:19:55 GMT
@introvert I'm trying to understand why that is and if its down to her issues with menopause etc... I'm happy to accept that but want to understand whether it was me or timing/circumstance. I am effectively saying that I'm not going to run after her anymore as I have laid all my cards on the table and its not enough.... Now I could be shooting myself in the foot and ruin all connection at any level but it is difficult to sit back and do nothing. Do you suggest I just walk away, no communication and just leave her be?
I'm definitely not criticising her decision and I'm definitely not controlling and self absorbed, I have bent over backwards to support her, be there for her, love her etc.... I feel she has lost any respect for me as a man tbh.
No, you're controlling. If you are insisting on supporting someone who has ended the relationship in hopes of turning it around you are pushing your agenda. You are self absorbed, making this all about what you want with little regard for what she wants, acting as if she doesn't really know what she wants, or that she is wrong, her choice is wrong. And then you want to man-splain how you're the best thing ever and she's making the worst decision of her life? You're one of those guys that knows better than her what she needs in her life, as a 52 year old successful independent woman?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 16:28:20 GMT
You could communicate that you accept her decision and express well wishes for her during this difficult time, and withdraw to tend to your own needs and feelings concerning the end of the relationship. Like people do when they break up.
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Post by dallan73 on Feb 5, 2024 17:06:31 GMT
I full appreciate your thoughts here @introvert and none of this (so far) has been about me in any way.. I suppose with listening to the 3% Man (clutching at straws here), I was trying to bring a bit of control back to myself and look after my well being which is currently being tortured....
ok, I need to grow a set and move on.....
....thanks for your advice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 17:19:16 GMT
I full appreciate your thoughts here @introvert and none of this (so far) has been about me in any way.. I suppose with listening to the 3% Man (clutching at straws here), I was trying to bring a bit of control back to myself and look after my well being which is currently being tortured.... ok, I need to grow a set and move on..... ....thanks for your advice. Hey I get that this is painful and I do empathize but you definitely have veered out of your lane. It's going to be torture to get back into your lane but in the long run it's the only way to be healthy and move on. Breakups can trigger our worst insecurities. That's where self care and tending to your emotional needs in a healthy way (by allowing grief and relinquishing control over her) can help you. Have compassion for yourself but be clear that if it's ended, it's out of your control and the only way forward is to get good support for the breakup, as is. As is. Not as you wish it was, but as it is. You can heal but it will take determination to do so. Best to you.
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 5, 2024 18:14:53 GMT
1) I'm the best thing thats happened to her (which I firmly believe) 2) She's making the biggest mistake of her life 3) She shouldnt mistake my affection and love as a sign of weakness or being a woose. 4) Make it clear that I'm not going to chase her anymore and that she needs to reach out to me when she's ready. 5) I don't want to be in the friend zone. (this will hurt me the most Your entitlement is showing. I suggest you pickup a copy of No More Mr. Nice Guy because you are threading very dangerously close to "Nice guy" territory here. I'm also sensing resentment. You gave and gave and supported and how dare she leave you now after how amazing and nice you've been to her. I've seen this dynamic play out time again. Not just in myself but also my friends. We meet a guy and he is so amazing and so nice but there is just something off about him and then we don't feel as we should about this person and it's really confusing. But what we are reacting negatively to is the enmeshment. The people pleasing. The lack of boundaries. The inability to stay in his lane.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 5, 2024 18:27:10 GMT
The 3% man is Corey Wayne. Here's the thing about those get your ex back and "be a man" self help gurus. Some of what they have to say may be helpful in regards to telling you not to be a doormat (ie, have healthy boundaries) and have confidence in yourself. But for them to be helpful, you need to only be taking the good advice while filtering out the bad, and if you're either inexperienced in dating say after being with the same person so long, or insecure yourself and trying to heal, knowing what advice of theirs is bad and filtering it out is difficult. They're trying to sell you something, so there's some good advice but a lot of it is bad. One thing I always suggest doing is looking at who you are listening to. Does he have the relationship or marriage that you envision for yourself? Or is he still single? It is (not always but) usually better to be taking advice from someone who talks the talk and walks the walk. Meaning, either someone who knows what a healthy relationship looks like because they have experience with them, or someone who has experience at the very least starting to work through their own trauma and issues who can give you solid feedback on getting there yourself, being more objective about your ex/partner and how to better listen to what they're saying, and pitfalls to avoid. We live in a tough society that can condition men to not process their feelings, which actually forces them to hold onto trauma instead of working through it. That's why when you face a situation like this, you even wonder if opening up and being more sensitive is worth it because you're overwhelmed by what you're feeling without having all the tools to deal with it. The lack of feeling grounded in yourself is why the breakup hurts so much, it's not because your life is worse for going to therapy and trying to unlock some of what I'm going to go out on a limb and call emotional constipation. It's just you're still in process of figuring out who you are and how to deal with stuff society, culture, and probably your own parents taught you to just tough it out about, so you're still learning what you need to in order to have better relationships and mental health. You need to be careful with get back your ex people because some are good (they teach you to focus on self and work through your feelings and improve communication and trust to build better connections), but most are teaching you tactics that ONLY work on other insecure attachers. Which means you might get your ex back for a while, but the dynamic will be toxic and fall apart again at some point. Plus in using those tactics, you'll eventually rinse and repeat with another person in your next relationship and the one after that. I'd recommend taking a listen to Jayson Gaddis. His style of talking gets very rambling sometimes, but he is a man who has worked through a lot of this stuff and has been married with kids for a long time. It may come off as sensitive, but his approach is healthy and he wants to help other men overcome some of these issues. It may or may not click with you, but you'll get better advice for real healing and attracting better women for yourself (whether that's your ex or moving on to someone else eventually) than listening to Corey Wayne. I also wonder if mrob has anything to add, as one of few resident men on this board who also deals with dating at a more mature age and gender expectation issues.
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Post by dallan73 on Feb 5, 2024 18:42:13 GMT
cherrycola - I had been reading 'Not Nice' by Dr Aziz Gazipura as I admittedly do like to please people. I do have boundaries so wouldnt see myself as a push over but always default to a position of trust (until broken) and give the benefit of doubt until I feel they are taking the pi$$.. This is the first time I've heard of the term enmeshment but will check it out and take note. alexandra - thanks for your input as always... Corey Wayne does come across as an arrogant SOB and the number of different relationships he's been through, it definitely isnt a great sales pitch (thanks for pointing that out). I will DEF look out Jayson Gaddis as I really feel that you are reading the situation very well and identify my failings (which gives me comfort). I really value @introverts input as well and glad I've been called out so I can work on myself. I'm really so glad of all your help.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 5, 2024 18:52:04 GMT
Great, I hope it helps. Once I could get beyond his rambling communication style, I found Gaddis incredibly helpful even for me (as a woman). Plus he actually has a master's degree and psychological training, so he's got both experience and education to back up his advice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 20:07:55 GMT
Omg I just skimmed an article by that Corey douche about how to find a perfect woman. His list of suggestions for qualities one might need in a woman are almost all superficial down to hair color, freckles, body type, does she like sports, is she simple or intellectual? He speaks of a woman here as though she is merely an accessory, the perfect woman is your accessory. Like a nice pair of shoes to enjoy. Or maybe a pet.
Then the list of intolerable traits is about character and how she might damage you. Well good, how about simple unavailability or conflicting values (such as when a woman values herself more than you value her š).
What a stupid article that was, I need to bleach my eyes. Aim higher, OP.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 5, 2024 21:36:15 GMT
I am completely torn tbh.... I said I would move mountains for her so to be there for her and support her through this tough time while hoping to restart the relationship when she's ready seems the least that I can do. Then, the other side of the coin is where I'm angry and hurt that she's prepared to throw away the great relationship that we had and not prepared to work it through.... Its been such an amazing year with the most amazing girl, but sometimes I wish it hadn't happened as I was in such a great place with myself before we met and I gave her my heart. Butā¦..you donāt have to be tornā¦that is the beauty of the situationā¦.she has told you that she wants to handle thingsā¦so you donāt have to ābe thereā for her. You are the only one holding onto that so you are the one who can stop holding onto it. Relationships are always a riskā¦.and the best that can come from any break up is to take from it any lessons that you can apply going forwardā¦.no point really in being angry at her or at yourself. Wait what? Anger has to have a point? Anger is an emotional response to loss here, completely natural. It's ok for him to acknowledge his feelings, they aren't pointless. His feelings can provide information about what he needs and he can learn from them. Nobody breaks up without lots of emotions, nobody just nods, packs up their lessons and moves on freely to apply them. In this case I would say Anger points to a legitimate attachment need, which is to have the security of a commitment. After a year and talk of a future, it's a legit part of his loss. What he can learn from it is that he is worthy of commitment and not to offer it unilaterally because that is very painful. The Anger is telling some truth here in my opinion and alerting him to the need to protect his own interests. It is fine to have a feeling of anger at the situationā¦but there was some āreading into itā that was a concern.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 5, 2024 21:46:48 GMT
cherrycola - I had been reading 'Not Nice' by Dr Aziz Gazipura as I admittedly do like to please people. I do have boundaries so wouldnt see myself as a push over but always default to a position of trust (until broken) and give the benefit of doubt until I feel they are taking the pi$$.. This is the first time I've heard of the term enmeshment but will check it out and take note. alexandra - thanks for your input as always... Corey Wayne does come across as an arrogant SOB and the number of different relationships he's been through, it definitely isnt a great sales pitch (thanks for pointing that out). I will DEF look out Jayson Gaddis as I really feel that you are reading the situation very well and identify my failings (which gives me comfort). I really value @introverts input as well and glad I've been called out so I can work on myself. I'm really so glad of all your help. Here is where I think the issue liesā¦you are trying to change yourself to win her back and prove that she let the best relationship goā¦and that will just lead to more resentment as she continues to take care of herself and doesnāt return the same feelings. I say that because I did the exact same thing to try to win B back after he broke up with me for a legitimate reason. I just could not accept that it was over and I was open to advice from so called experts on how to win someone back. But the truth isā¦.doing any of that stuff is just being manipulativeā¦I should have simply bowed out gracefully and spent more time on the attributes that I loved in B, rather then B himself. For any relationship to work, both parties have to have the freedom to chooseā¦..manipulation tries to mess with that freedom in a very disrespectful way. I am sure you care deeply for herā¦but it is as if you do not have a clear understanding of where you end and she beginsā¦..and that is a boundary issue that only you can work on. It took a very long time for me to realize that in my quest for Bā¦.he had become more of an object to win back versus a real personā¦..I hope that you are able to see that in yourself a lot earlier.
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Post by dallan73 on Feb 5, 2024 22:07:49 GMT
You are correct @trn9 and think that comes from desperation.... I had another (really good) video chat with the ex tonight (which in some regards is confusing) and feel she needs to accept me for who I am and not what I think she may want me to be. I need to focus on making myself be the best I can be, for me, and ultimately be happy (or content).
I'm looking forward to catching up with her on Thursday and going for a walk...
I genuinely value everyones input here and I know I'm a little screwed in the head at the moment.. It would have been far easier if she had found someone else which would have forced me to let go....
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Post by alexandra on Feb 5, 2024 22:59:58 GMT
It would have been far easier if she had found someone else which would have forced me to let go.... You have autonomy. You choose to let go. It's your own choice. I assure you you'd have been far more hurt and angry and in a worse place if she found someone else. You'd still not have wanted to let go, and you'd have mixed her together in your head with your ex-wife and how she handled things. Do you still go to therapy? Discussing what healthy boundaries look like with the therapist, around who you are in general not just in the context of this breakup situation, sounds like it would be a really fruitful area of focus for you.
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