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Post by tnr9 on Jan 4, 2018 22:59:32 GMT
There are still so many aspects of need-I-ness in me...I desperately want someone to focus on other than me...it is like staring too long at a broken mirror...the distortions are very hard to own. Yet I will sit here...in the discomfort of it all...while my abandonment story tells me I should do something...while my reoccurring thought is that "I was too blame". To find one self means to sit with that discomfort and say..it is ok....this discomfort is ok. It doesn't mean that I am broken..it means that I was wounded..it means that there is something "missing" and I must be the one to "find it". It is amazing to love someone fully, completely...but do you also give that to yourself? My answer would be I am working on it.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 1:32:57 GMT
So I am not sure if anyone else does this...but I look for any means to distract myself....Internet, TV, thinking about my ex, looking at FB....sitting, resting, those don't feel right....it is like I have to get away from myself all the time...and when I do slow down...the negative thoughts reoccur.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 1:40:12 GMT
I can't identify with the feelings you have tnr9, as I think I lean more towards the avoidant spectrum and I don't really feel those types of emotions very often but I AM definitely a classic over-thinker in a lot of ways and on a variety of issues. What I find works best for me is focusing my time on activities that improve me in some way; so that can be stuff like running, or planning something fun with friends, or focusing on a work project. So more like activities which add something and benefit me rather than distractions. I rarely get relationship anxious but I do get anxious over other stuff sometimes (finances or health) and I find trying to watch TV or check Facebook totally doesn't work to relieve anxiety. That's kind of distraction rather than improvement, so improvement is stuff that actually cancels out the negative and replaces with positive.
Also - you are so valuable! I know you experience a lot of questioning of yourself and insecurity but you're such a smart, lovely and kind person that you really need to grip onto that and realise how lovable and great you are. I do sometimes experience insecurity (although I think for me being a little bit cocky is kind of a coverup for really feeling not that great) but when you get to a certain age whatever your past experiences are you can really learn and focus in on that sense of self love. Expressing to yourself that you think you're pretty ok actually and living that!
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 1:57:34 GMT
I can't identify with the feelings you have tnr9, as I think I lean more towards the avoidant spectrum and I don't really feel those types of emotions very often but I AM definitely a classic over-thinker in a lot of ways and on a variety of issues. What I find works best for me is focusing my time on activities that improve me in some way; so that can be stuff like running, or planning something fun with friends, or focusing on a work project. So more like activities which add something and benefit me rather than distractions. I rarely get relationship anxious but I do get anxious over other stuff sometimes (finances or health) and I find trying to watch TV or check Facebook totally doesn't work to relieve anxiety. That's kind of distraction rather than improvement, so improvement is stuff that actually cancels out the negative and replaces with positive. Also - you are so valuable! I know you experience a lot of questioning of yourself and insecurity but you're such a smart, lovely and kind person that you really need to grip onto that and realise how lovable and great you are. I do sometimes experience insecurity (although I think for me being a little bit cocky is kind of a coverup for really feeling not that great) but when you get to a certain age whatever your past experiences are you can really learn and focus in on that sense of self love. Expressing to yourself that you think you're pretty ok actually and living that! Thanks Yasmin...I find you to be so valuable as well. I love how you balance care for yourself and care for your partner while still acknowledging the areas you find you want to improve in. It takes guts to put your behaviors under a microscope and own that some of them are not as secure as you would like. i seem to be having a much harder time then I had hoped....I am not sure if the breakup is finally "real" to me after I had lived in "hope" for so many months. I vascillate so often these days between profound sadness that veers on depression and regret that I wonder when I will find my way back to joy. But I am committed to work through every step....because I have to believe that there is something wonderful on the horizon.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 2:39:29 GMT
Ambiguity is really tough to live with for anybody!!! It's almost a relief to get outright rejected than to get mixed messages. I wish I could give you a big hug!
I did the online test for attachment style and came back CLOSEish to secure but with a pretty significant leaning to avoidance and a touch of anxiety, so official diagnosis = FA. Honestly, the avoidant parts of me are predominant (I never acknowledged them as attachment style but always thought of myself as just independent and choosy) and the anxious parts have hardly ever come out until I met my FA. He triggered the anxiety parts and believe me, even with me being only just over the line into anxious i felt TERRIBLE so if you are full blown AP this kind of feeling is going to be incredibly painful. Really, I mean it was on par with the worst days of my life wondering why he had done this or that and feeling like it destroyed my mind for some reason. It really had nothing to do with him, but because I was triggered.
Try and pull focus onto yourself and repeat to yourself that you're triggered. You're triggered. You're triggered. This isn't about him but about the inside part of you that feels so much pain when this precise behavior comes into contact with you. This way it kind of gives you back your own power and control over it and takes it away from someone else.
you've got this! It is going to get better.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 4:37:48 GMT
The thing is...under all that triggering...I do love my ex...deeply. There is so much goodness in that man and some girl is going to be very lucky to win his heart.
That being said...I think it is time to share the breakup...if only so that someone can tell me that it wasn't my fault. My ex is honest...and because of that...he would tell me periodically that he was having doubts about the relationship...he usually would not elaborate more and I never pressed him for more details....a week before the breakup he commented that we needed to pray about making the right choices....again he did not elaborate. Later that week he told me his sister had invited us to spend the night at her place. I had plans earlier in the day and he had to work...so I drove out to meet him once my plans were over and we took my car to his sister's. When we arrived, we put our bags downstairs in the basement and then went to buy some items at Walmart and stop at the liquor store. After getting back, my ex suggested we play a game where we play songs for each other and then the other people would rate them. I have a terrible memory and did not have my phone..so in the end I came in last. After his sister and her husband went to bed, I went downstairs to get ready for bed. My ex did not come downstairs and so I went upstairs to look for him. The garage was slighly ajar but I did not see him outside, so I went back downstairs and waited. When I heard him come in, I approached him telling him that I was concerned because I could not find him. There was this look on his face as if he was needing to say something. I asked if it was about me and he shook his head. I asked what was wrong and that is when he said I was perfect in so many ways...but..he said I was more into him then he was into me and that our age difference was also a factor ( I am older than him). He was very sweet and apologetic...I felt numb. I just sat there until he suggested we cuddle. I know I probably should have left...who stays after they are told it is over...but we drove in one car and I did not want to leave him. After we cuddled for a bit, he went upstairs and spent time with his nephew and I stayed downstairs trying to still process what happened. When I went upstairs, I couldn't eat.....we sat in the living room and he put on Netflix for his nephew to watch with him. He later told me that he had been praying about this since right before Easter. I am not sharing this because I think my ex is to blame...i believe he did not want to hurt me and I believe he did not plan to breakup with me at his sister's. I just have so much guilt...that I need someone to say...it wasn't all you...because I tend to take responsibility for everything that goes wrong.
also..I know my story is a bit disjointed...I left stuff out that out that I felt was private as I respect my ex.
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Post by david21 on Jan 5, 2018 5:20:18 GMT
It is amazing to love someone fully, completely...but do you also give that to yourself? My answer would be I am working on it. This is a great question and is something I've been thinking about lately. I've noticed that with my ex DA I would do things for her that I don't do for myself. For example: when I would spend the night at her place I would make her lunch for work the next day. I don't even make myself lunch for work! I never have! Or, I'd clean things at her place, do odd jobs for her, run a few errands for her etc etc. All things I wouldn't or don't even do for myself. This has been an important discovery for me. Can anyone relate to this? Or give any insight or feedback on it?
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 12:18:58 GMT
Hello tnr9 , Excuse me but I cannot understand the reason for your guilt. Is there anything you are not sharing here? Food for thought: why did he wait to communicate his feelings until you were at his sister's place where you could not leave? Not a day before, not a day after. Just when you cannot physically leave. No....I feel guilty for "confronting" him when he came back in about being concerned that I did not know where he was...because maybe the topic would not have come up. I know my ex doesn't like conflict and he tends to avoid it....so I should have considered that. But I wasn't trying to confront him....I was just really concerned because he was gone for quite a while. When I told my stepfather and a few friends, they were really annoyed with my ex because...to your point, if he had been praying since before Easter, why didn't he bring it up sooner or wait until we got back. I really don't know the answer.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 12:40:25 GMT
It is amazing to love someone fully, completely...but do you also give that to yourself? My answer would be I am working on it. This is a great question and is something I've been thinking about lately. I've noticed that with my ex DA I would do things for her that I don't do for myself. For example: when I would spend the night at her place I would make her lunch for work the next day. I don't even make myself lunch for work! I never have! Or, I'd clean things at her place, do odd jobs for her, run a few errands for her etc etc. All things I wouldn't or don't even do for myself. This has been an important discovery for me. Can anyone relate to this? Or give any insight or feedback on it? David....some of that is just part of being in a relationship and wanting to show your partner that they matter to you. It is important however to look at the "why" you are doing it. What is your motivation. I find that I tend to want to prove myself as worthy...so I will be extra giving to my partner. In part, I believe what I bring to the relationship is not enough, so I have to do "extras". The flip side of this is that I am constantly looking for validation that I "am enough". It is what the DAs hate most...the clingy neediness that is driven by an activated attachment system and an inability to self regulate. When we self abandon....we are actually doing both ourselves and our partner a disservice. It is a great discovery you have made...see if you can explore the "why" and if you find that you too are trying to prove yourself...that is just an indication that you are working off a very old model. You can now look at what you can do to bring your worth back....to know you are worthy whether you do those things for a partner or not. It frees you to choose loving actions instead of being compelled to do them....and...bonus....as you become more self compassionate.....yout attachment system should also be positively impacted. I am at the very beginning of my new journey...want to join me on a year of self compassion?
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 13:12:08 GMT
The ugly truth is...I don't want to move on from my ex...I want desperately to hold out hope that somehow, someway we can get back together...if I can just figure out what he needs and be "that girl" instead of me. So I feel like I have 2 competing missions in my head1. Focus on me and grow in self compassion, grieving, moving forward 2. Focus on him, try to change me in hopes he will change his mind about me.
And I realize that I am becoming more the girl he would not want to be with as I spiral into depths of regret. I wonder why I cannot hold him accountable to any of this. Like he was just this secure person and I brought all this baggage to the table and ruined things...when I intellectually know that is not the case. What am I trying to protect him from? Why must all the control of everything bad be upon my shoulders? I really don't get this.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 18:17:46 GMT
Hello tnr9 , Excuse me but I cannot understand the reason for your guilt. Is there anything you are not sharing here? Food for thought: why did he wait to communicate his feelings until you were at his sister's place where you could not leave? Not a day before, not a day after. Just when you cannot physically leave. No....I feel guilty for "confronting" him when he came back in about being concerned that I did not know where he was...because maybe the topic would not have come up. I know my ex doesn't like conflict and he tends to avoid it....so I should have considered that. But I wasn't trying to confront him....I was just really concerned because he was gone for quite a while. When I told my stepfather and a few friends, they were really annoyed with my ex because...to your point, if he had been praying since before Easter, why didn't he bring it up sooner or wait until we got back. I really don't know the answer. The "guilt" that I felt when I was going through my last relationship ended up being about feeling out of control. This is what went though my mind for a time. Hear me out: Somewhere deep inside I KNOW I'm not fully to blame. I KNOW THAT. There were issues that had come up and I addressed them. When the response is silence or distancing, that isn't because I said, "Hey, I noticed bla bla bla, why are you doing that." This person doesn't know how to communicate his feelings well. He's afraid to hurt me and thinks he is protecting me by saving me from the truth, but the truth is exactly what I need! Give it to me.
BUT I hurt SO badly! I'm SO confused. Things don't add up. I think the world of him and I thought he felt the same. I feel like I'm being punished. Hmmmm, if I am being punished then I must have done something wrong. Ok if I did something wrong then I can fix this! I'll say I'm sorry, though I am not really sure what I did that I should be sorry about, but I'm sure whatever I did I would be sorry for, if I actually knew what that was. Ok. I apologized and that upset him. He said I am perfect and it isn't me, so why doeS he keep distancing himself from me. Ok think! Think! THINK!....OH! There was that time I said this.... "..."I'm sorry I said this dear." Nope that wasn't it....Oh, yeah, you know, we did talk about this issue and I was very matter of fact...I'll apologize for that..."I'm sorry I was so blunt"....Nope. THAT wasn't it either...Ok now I've apologized a billion times, nothing has worked, WHY CAN'T I FIX THIS!The issue had nothing to do with me. He realized that and he told me that but I DIDN'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT WASN'T ME. There were things that I was sorry for, but I WAS MAKING THE SITUATION BE ABOUT ME. If I broke it, then that would give me the power to fix it! I thought. I thought I was being culpable and responsible and loving. I THOUGHT I was acting in a way that would help me control the pain I was feeling. But I was making it worse. By profusely apologizing for things I deep down inside knew I wasn't sorry for I was lying to myself and hurting my own self esteem. If I had brought up an issue there was a good reason for that. I shouldn't be sorry about that. One SHOULD bring up concerns about their relationships. I shouldn't have apologized for that. By approaching him time and again apologizing for what I IMAGINED was the reason he was distancing I brought up issues that had probably never even crossed his mind, BECAUSE THIS WASN'T ABOUT ME. But after I did apologize for those things, well now he is thinking about it and is like YEAH! You know she DID do that see this is why I have to get away! And there I was, paving the road with my unnecessary guilt and apologies. It is important to feel guilt about things we genuinely did wrong or when we find that we have hurt someone we love because that guilt can lead us to positive actions to rectify situations. But SELF-HONESTY is where healing begins. When a person says, "It's not you. It's me." Believe them. They are telling you the truth. Because EVEN IF there really is something about you that is turning them off and they don't tell you what is its or why they are having a problem, then it is STILL them and not you because they are not being honest with themselves. This is true of everyone, I believe, we want to be loved for who we are. Then you HAVE TO BE WHO YOU REALLY ARE to see if that person can really love you. If you misrepresent and pretend that things don't bother you that really do, Or that you can offer them a level of emotional support that your know you really can't, then you are lying to them, and they CAN'T love who you are, because they don't know who you are. So it is SO important to take the time first to KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND BE OK WITH THAT. (SECURE) That way we attract people who know who they are and are OK with it. There's a saying we all most likely know that I think applies (in a non traditional way) to relationships. "If the shoe fits, wear it" Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I take care of my dogs! I can find a shoe that is SO cute, has the potential of matching everything in my closest, but if it pinches my toes or hurts my arches, I may feel sad that I can't wear them, but putting them on my kitchen table and staring at them for a week is not going to make them fit, no matter how badly I want them. I have two options: send them back and ask for the company to exchange them for a different size, or I start keeping my eye out for a different pair all together. People are not inanimate objects like shoes, I know. This is just an illustration. There is nothing wrong with boundaries. We need to have them. We need to know what it is we realistically hope to experience in a relationship. But we need to HONOR OUR OWN BOUNDARIES. If one sets a boundary and then continually crosses that boundary themselves, it shows that we don't have integrity to even our own person, we don't respect ourselves. How could we truly respect someone else's boundaries. This is when it starts looking to our partner that we are not to be trusted, that we are manipulating. BECAUSE WE ARE. We want what we want, not to hurt. The absurd irony is that we might be looking to the same person that hurt us to heal us too. If one's boundaries don't mean anything to the one who set them then they will POSITIVELY not mean anything to anyone else. We might say, " I want them to get help I want them to change, to improve and reach their full potential!" If that is true, and they need to improve and we're taking ALL the responsibility, then really what is their incentive to improve? Our allowing people to be responsible for their part, not matter how great of a person he/she is, will help TREMENDOUSLY to calm anxiety. That is nothing to feel guilty for, that is healthy and secure.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 18:30:34 GMT
Out of interest, do any of the APs with this "guilt" feeling have families where they felt they needed to do /be/say something to be liked /loved?
I had a pretty loving family so I can't complain that much AT ALL but my parents were kinda self absorbed and inconsistent and often crossed boundaries that weren't healthy (for example big arguments in front of me, putting me in the middle) and generally being more interested in themselves /inconsistent than they should have been. As an adult, they don't do that anymore but they remain fairly emotionally unavailable. Not their fault (both my parents had pretty bad childhoods, my Mother's was horrible) but I don't think they are capable even now of emotional support so that was something I didn't have until I was older and had a boyfriend / close friends and I had to learn to accept as an adult and I am still not great at it.
My Mom right now would bring over food if I was sick, give me the shirt of her back, cuddle me, let me go stay at her house...do basically ANYTHING for me (I am loved) but she could not handle it in any way if I called her and told her I was depressed or something like that. It'd make her avoidant, she just could not cope with this conversation and she'd say something like "shall we go and get our nails done?". Her method of dealing with pain is distraction, not analysis.
So I think I grew up as someone who provided comfort instead of receiving it, who felt it necessary to keep the peace and fix things and make other people feel better and I am not very good at analysing my own emotions (even now) but quite good at doing so for others. I do have a tendency to feel a sense of guilt when I have done nothing wrong, like a sense of failure that I could not succeed in helping or fixing and like this is a reflection on my lack of worth.
Guilt, I suppose is only really useful if it serves as a reminder of a mistake you don't want to repeat and when it finds it's way into situations that aren't of your making or really any of your business then maybe they are from your own lack of worth? true for me when I feel this
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 21:36:42 GMT
Out of interest, do any of the APs with this "guilt" feeling have families where they felt they needed to do /be/say something to be liked /loved? I had a pretty loving family so I can't complain that much AT ALL but my parents were kinda self absorbed and inconsistent and often crossed boundaries that weren't healthy (for example big arguments in front of me, putting me in the middle) and generally being more interested in themselves /inconsistent than they should have been. As an adult, they don't do that anymore but they remain fairly emotionally unavailable. Not their fault (both my parents had pretty bad childhoods, my Mother's was horrible) but I don't think they are capable even now of emotional support so that was something I didn't have until I was older and had a boyfriend / close friends and I had to learn to accept as an adult and I am still not great at it. My Mom right now would bring over food if I was sick, give me the shirt of her back, cuddle me, let me go stay at her house...do basically ANYTHING for me (I am loved) but she could not handle it in any way if I called her and told her I was depressed or something like that. It'd make her avoidant, she just could not cope with this conversation and she'd say something like "shall we go and get our nails done?". Her method of dealing with pain is distraction, not analysis. So I think I grew up as someone who provided comfort instead of receiving it, who felt it necessary to keep the peace and fix things and make other people feel better and I am not very good at analysing my own emotions (even now) but quite good at doing so for others. I do have a tendency to feel a sense of guilt when I have done nothing wrong, like a sense of failure that I could not succeed in helping or fixing and like this is a reflection on my lack of worth. Guilt, I suppose is only really useful if it serves as a reminder of a mistake you don't want to repeat and when it finds it's way into situations that aren't of your making or really any of your business then maybe they are from your own lack of worth? true for me when I feel this So it is a bit tough because I don't really "remember" much....but I know that what I do remember is how often I felt my mom was disappointed, frustrated, annoyed, embarrassed and angry at me. My dad was not really engaged at all...even after they divorced. He was all about his work and success. I used to apologize all the time for things that weren't my fault. Even now, if I think someone I care about is going to be angry at me or not understand me, I will automatically tear up. It's a defense mechanism.....surely a person cannot think bad things about me if I have already taken the blame, a person cannot be angry at me if I cry. I honestly felt like I just could not do anything right...like there was something defective about who I was and I desperately wanted to change but at the same time, I wanted to be "me". My mom is very stoic...there is not a lot of physical attention from her and she has pretty tight boundaries. I however am all about physical affection and I am very open. She prefers getting things done...if there is an issue you fix it...I am more about discovering what is going on and being there for a person. So we are a bit like oil and water really. I think for me...guilt and tears have been my only 2 ways to try to control things when it seemed everything was out of my control.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 21:51:19 GMT
It sounds like no suprise you're AP! Can I also say...you are perfect just the way you are
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 6, 2018 2:58:42 GMT
It sounds like no suprise you're AP! Can I also say...you are perfect just the way you are Thanks Yasmin. You are truly a real blessing to me. Thank you for your kindness.
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