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Post by myname on Jul 28, 2021 11:05:46 GMT
Hi.
Over 8 years ago I was in an on/off relationship for 4 years, it was the most painful and confusing and hurtful relationship I’ve had. But paradoxically it also felt like the most loving and the one I wanted more than any other. It literally made me feel crazy. I loved the person so much, and felt they really loved me too, which is why I tried so hard. It was always them who left me, and it always felt premature and abrupt and like it was a knee jerk response from them, to hearing something they didn’t like, or feeling disrespected if I got brave and tried to set my own boundaries. At the very end, I stopped chasing and asking for them back. I couldn’t apologise for things I didn’t actually agree with anymore. I couldn’t cope with trying to rationalise with them, or convince them that we were worth another shot, it felt too demoralising and one sided. Their story would be, they loved me and tried with me more than they had with anyone else, they literally couldn’t cope with how I treat them. At the last breakup - I don’t know how I coped, it hurt like hell. I didn’t talk about it / didn’t research anything / didn’t want to know what they were doing / didn’t want to hear about them.. it all just filled me with dread of my emotions spilling out and I was worried I’d never recover. So I bottled it all up and moved on. Into a very secure relationship, where I am happy.
The thing is, I wasn’t really happy, and neither have I ever really been since that relationship. Even though I didn’t take any leanings from it. So over the last year I’ve been trying to understand it. It’s taken some research, some therapy and serious self reflection.. and only in the last week I have realised that I am a AP and that partner was a FA! I’ve spent so so so long trying to understand them, as it was all so confusing.. I wanted to hate them, wondered if they were a narc, wondered if they just didn’t love me the same way and I was struggling to accept that. But my revelation of understanding attachments styles has made it all click. And I now understand things, and feel more compassion for both of us, rather than confusion and anger at how it all ended up.
What I would like advice over, is any suggestions on how I could really put this all to bed now, and let go of them mentally, fully.. 100% and be at peace with everything. I really feel like I am getting there, but since discovering attachment I can’t help but look at the FA side to analyse their behaviour rather than assess my own AP issues. I’m in a long term relationship where my anxious traits aren’t triggered in the slightest now, and know me and this other person can never ever be together (but I do still have to battle this constant pull of wanting to connect with them, like we have some deeper vibe, basically I think the thought of them still triggers my AP). How do i stop it?
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 28, 2021 11:23:47 GMT
Hi. Over 8 years ago I was in an on/off relationship for 4 years, it was the most painful and confusing and hurtful relationship I’ve had. But paradoxically it also felt like the most loving and the one I wanted more than any other. It literally made me feel crazy. I loved the person so much, and felt they really loved me too, which is why I tried so hard. It was always them who left me, and it always felt premature and abrupt and like it was a knee jerk response from them, to hearing something they didn’t like, or feeling disrespected if I got brave and tried to set my own boundaries. At the very end, I stopped chasing and asking for them back. I couldn’t apologise for things I didn’t actually agree with anymore. I couldn’t cope with trying to rationalise with them, or convince them that we were worth another shot, it felt too demoralising and one sided. Their story would be, they loved me and tried with me more than they had with anyone else, they literally couldn’t cope with how I treat them. At the last breakup - I don’t know how I coped, it hurt like hell. I didn’t talk about it / didn’t research anything / didn’t want to know what they were doing / didn’t want to hear about them.. it all just filled me with dread of my emotions spilling out and I was worried I’d never recover. So I bottled it all up and moved on. Into a very secure relationship, where I am happy. The thing is, I wasn’t really happy, and neither have I ever really been since that relationship. Even though I didn’t take any leanings from it. So over the last year I’ve been trying to understand it. It’s taken some research, some therapy and serious self reflection.. and only in the last week I have realised that I am a AP and that partner was a FA! I’ve spent so so so long trying to understand them, as it was all so confusing.. I wanted to hate them, wondered if they were a narc, wondered if they just didn’t love me the same way and I was struggling to accept that. But my revelation of understanding attachments styles has made it all click. And I now understand things, and feel more compassion for both of us, rather than confusion and anger at how it all ended up. What I would like advice over, is any suggestions on how I could really put this all to bed now, and let go of them mentally, fully.. 100% and be at peace with everything. I really feel like I am getting there, but since discovering attachment I can’t help but look at the FA side to analyse their behaviour rather than assess my own AP issues. I’m in a long term relationship where my anxious traits aren’t triggered in the slightest now, and know me and this other person can never ever be together (but I do still have to battle this constant pull of wanting to connect with them, like we have some deeper vibe, basically I think the thought of them still triggers my AP). How do i stop it? Hi and welcome….as I read your post, it definitely resonated with me because I still have feelings for the last guy I dated. Sometimes I will catch myself on this site reading something and think “if only…”, however, that is just a very kind and hopeful side that still wants to understand a person I cared for very deeply. What has helped me is to recognize that learning more about the guy I dated will not really change anything….but leaning into looking at my own patterns will. My therapist has been tremendously helpful in pointing out that I am not missing the actual guy I dated, but a fantasy construct of all the best times we had together. And there is something very addictive about the roller coaster of 2 insecurely attached individuals in a relationship….so I have had to find another source that gets me as excited…which for me is shell collecting. It does take time…so grace and patience with yourself is important.
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Post by myname on Jul 28, 2021 12:19:06 GMT
Thanks TNR9, your message made sense, it gave me some comfort knowing others can feel the same way. Like you suggest, I really would like to lean into my own issues more, to understand why I was so willing to let let go of all of my boundaries for them, and even try and convince them over and over that I understood their inflated accusations, and that they were right. It seemed like my only option at the time. In hindsight now, think I wanted to please and appease them, so they felt calm.. and didn’t run away, but that just caused them to distrust me more as occasionally I’d let it slip that I didn’t agree, and I started to feel restful and surpressed. Now I’m starting to understand it was pretty selfish of me to do that, becasue all I was focused on was my ultimate goal of keeping them, by convincing them that I could be better. That wasn’t creating a stable base for them either, and almost empowered their irrational thoughts. I think, in hindsight, I know if I’d have actually been true to myself then it wouldn’t have lasted as long as it did, I just was desperate for it to last and for them to see I wasn’t as bad as they thought and that I really did love them. I think they felt that I did though. And I did feel that they loved me too when we were in it. That’s why nothing much made sense to me. Now I see they did love me, but they were terrified of being hurt by me and reacted to that the only way they know to cope, just like a reacted the only way I knew how to, because of fear too. I also did things to trigger their fear in reaction my fears being triggered... It’s so messed up 😬 - I do wish I knew all of this at the time, as think I’d have had more patience and understanding for their flaws, and also taken a much harder look at my own and how I was really contributing to the problem. I was too focused on looking after me and my needs. Because It was that I wanted them, and I’d do anything to get them to see it, I didn’t see how that could be a negative thing. I realise I should only concentrate on me now.. and I guess try and really understand my triggers, so that I can control them better in the future or continue to reframe my way of thinking. I think it’s time to try and stop analysing this relationship now, I worry that I’m clinging on to analysing it becasue it subconsciously keeps me connected to them. I guess I must only focus on me, and start looking at other relationships and other triggers too, to get the most out of these learnings. Funny you mentioned finding something that excites you, I’ve been craving picking up a new hobby and doing something I really love lately.. I’ll get going with that too 😃 - thank you, again.
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Post by annieb on Jul 28, 2021 15:55:13 GMT
I think it helps to know that life will be full of these experiences and our relationships are always a reflection of how we feel about ourselves and what we think we deserve. Good and bad, high and low. It’s great that you’re able to look at you ex with compassion and extending that compassion to yourself. And the fact that you are in a secure dynamic now, that you chose a person, who was good for you, speaks volumes of your growth. So discount that and that you haven’t grown. You’re willing to analyze and grow further.
I would agree that psychoanalizing and insecure ex partner connects us to them and on these boards we’ve often discussed that it gives us a certain control over the situation - to understand them, as empathic that may be, is maybe a little bit of a control thing for us. Empathy is a wonderful thing, but maybe we could leave some things alone. Maybe practice some meditation - where you can let some of this pain and inquiry pass. Let it pass right through you they say, without the need to analyze it.
These boards are a great sounding board to check in with the members and to get a grounding feedback with a lot of compassion for your struggle. So if it helps to write here about your journey now that you’ve discovered the AP and FA dynamic.
Also don’t discount that you’re a human, a social animal that wants to procreate lol. We often over intellectualize our existence (also to exert a form of control in my opinion), and allow yourself just be. Nature is powerful and leaning into the being that is you can be liberating.
We all came here with an avoidant on our hands (I myself am FA most times I’ve taken the tests, but have also tested DA and AP in different times and different relationships), and we evolved into something that worked for us more or less. I am myself so much happier in my day to day life than the misery I was in, when I first came here and the relationship I was stuck in with a DA (who is now long gone and we don’t speak and I really don’t understand what I saw in him now 😳).
Hope to hear more from you and also about your current relationship and how that relationship works and how it started, etc. Some of us still don’t have that healthy relationship model down pat so hearing about healthy dynamics are always positive for me personally.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 28, 2021 18:08:12 GMT
Good advice from the other posters so far. And I agree with your assessment you're AP and the ex is FA based on the details you shared and having been in that situation myself multiple times (the patterns of the dynamics tend to unfold exactly the same even if each relationship's details are slightly different). What I'm going to add is: AP tend to interpret longing and anxiety nervous system overwhelm as love. As you know from your secure relationship right now, there is a healthier and more stable and sustainable form of love. But if it's not overstimulating you the way the roller coaster of intermittent reinforcement did, and you bottled things up in the past and never fully processed them, it's normal for someone with anxious insecure attachment tendencies to not have fully reconciled the attachment and moved on. That does not mean you missed out or it would have been good to reconnect or that you could have done anything differently that made the relationship unfold differently. I feel like you're still lost in what if ("maybe if I did something differently...") since you are stuck in not having fully processed it. In addition to focusing on your own AP side of things, it helped me to look at beginning to end stories on this site of AP/FA relationships (and inevitable breakups and even getting back together and repeating and breaking up) and seeing that every one went the same way. Not overanalyzing why my FA exes were doing what they were doing, but seeing the full dynamic in action and that there's nothing that can be done by only one partner. AP struggle with thinking they have some control over other's behaviors to get their needs met, that if they found the magic formula they could get someone to stick around and fully commit for good. While it's not intuitive at first glance, for AP this tends to be a very old script based out of inconsistent and intermittent parent-figure behavior from childhood. I only started fully processing past breakups and emotions and getting over people for real and not wondering what if when I started to focus on myself and my own security and work through those issues. Avoidant style exes were a projection of my own insecurities and fear of abandonment more than anything else, as we were both too scared of being fully present and vulnerable to have a healthy and stable relationship due to our individual unsorted issues. It reflected the emotional unavailability of both insecure partners, me and whichever ex, no matter who was the anxious or avoidant one. All that pain and anxiety seemed totally exhausting as I got older, all the longing was stressful, and I was ready to change and move myself past it (for the longest time, I thought people I now recognize as secure were boring and wasn't interested, which is also a typical unaware insecure attachment issue). Once I actually became more secure, I got over that and appreciate and value consistency and never getting triggered anxious like I did with my exes more than I can adequately describe in words lol. But it was an inherent shift in deep emotion feelings, and the processing, changes, and getting over past relationships didn't happen overnight. It takes deliberate, conscious work and healing attachment wounds from way back. This is a link I like to share as food for thought on being triggered and how childhood experiences and adult romance actually all connects that's a good read for those getting started (both the article and the thread): jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-response
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Post by alexandra on Jul 28, 2021 18:26:02 GMT
krolle, I think browsing through this thread so far will help out with your question about whether AP are more emotionally available than FA/DA, because the undercurrent about why not is here in the post responses and touches on my thoughts about it. Not to thread hijack, though
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Post by anne12 on Jul 30, 2021 9:09:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 16:02:43 GMT
Hi Anne12 Thank you for this, will read through shortly.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 30, 2021 17:22:27 GMT
The one thing that helps me is knowing the truth about them and the situation. To me, it's not enough to just accept "they're simply unavailable" or "they're not into you" because those are either lies or not entire truths. Usually the answer is closer to "they hate themselves and aren't ready to work through their issues". If you must analyze what happened, you can usually put everything together after enough space from them and that's the conclusion that makes the most sense.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 30, 2021 17:49:47 GMT
The one thing that helps me is knowing the truth about them and the situation. To me, it's not enough to just accept "they're simply unavailable" or "they're not into you" because those are either lies or not entire truths. Usually the answer is closer to "they hate themselves and aren't ready to work through their issues". If you must analyze what happened, you can usually put everything together after enough space from them and that's the conclusion that makes the most sense. I was actually thinking about this….and I was wrestling through why B had such doubts with me and then rushed into marriage with the next woman…..that still has a big ? In my mind because I don’t believe he did any self work. It doesn’t hurt the way it used to….but it pops up in my mind from time to time.
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 31, 2021 5:41:00 GMT
I was actually thinking about this….and I was wrestling through why B had such doubts with me and then rushed into marriage with the next woman…..that still has a big ? In my mind because I don’t believe he did any self work. It doesn’t hurt the way it used to….but it pops up in my mind from time to time. I'm not familiar with your story, but it may be that she puts up with him more and doesn't trigger him in the same way, therefore he has more control over her/the relationship. If he hasn't done any work though, their relationship is pretty unhealthy by default.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 31, 2021 13:38:53 GMT
I was actually thinking about this….and I was wrestling through why B had such doubts with me and then rushed into marriage with the next woman…..that still has a big ? In my mind because I don’t believe he did any self work. It doesn’t hurt the way it used to….but it pops up in my mind from time to time. I'm not familiar with your story, but it may be that she puts up with him more and doesn't trigger him in the same way, therefore he has more control over her/the relationship. If he hasn't done any work though, their relationship is pretty unhealthy by default. It makes sense on one level…but man…that AP lens of looking for differences and then trying to interpret them is hard to kick….meaning….it is too easy to compare and contrast and think that because he moved so quickly with her that in fact he wasn’t FA…which I know he is….and that they are having that fantasy relationship I wanted with him. Just being honest.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 31, 2021 20:01:45 GMT
...they are having that fantasy relationship I wanted with him. Just being honest. Just remember that relationships built on fantasy don't sustain or meet needs in the long-term. There's no actual foundation of trust and security. The last FA I dated for just a few months, the guy immediately ended up with the woman he actually had a crush on (whom he knew before meeting me) and last I'd heard anything, they've been together for 2 years. He definitely didn't do any work between because there was almost no between time. But I also know that he once lived with someone else for 5 years and suddenly left her in an incredibly immature way that must have been blindsiding for her... he didn't even have the decency to tell her when he decided it was over, he waited a while for her to finally bring up a "where is this going talk" with him. I know rationally you already know it's a pointless exercise to wonder how their relationship is, but I can't imagine this guy's 2 year relationship with this woman would be one that would have made me happy if I were in her place, even if they are currently happy together. He was extremely difficult to deal with and date, in spite of our good times and good chemistry, and he's already proven he can be out at any moment with no warning... that issue won't change until he does self-work, and I'm not looking for someone whose commitment I can't trust. So the takeaway is, maybe they are happy together but that doesn't mean you'd have been happy if he stuck around, especially after you were given so many reasons not to trust his commitment ability.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 1, 2021 14:47:51 GMT
...they are having that fantasy relationship I wanted with him. Just being honest. Just remember that relationships built on fantasy don't sustain or meet needs in the long-term. There's no actual foundation of trust and security. The last FA I dated for just a few months, the guy immediately ended up with the woman he actually had a crush on (whom he knew before meeting me) and last I'd heard anything, they've been together for 2 years. He definitely didn't do any work between because there was almost no between time. But I also know that he once lived with someone else for 5 years and suddenly left her in an incredibly immature way that must have been blindsiding for her... he didn't even have the decency to tell her when he decided it was over, he waited a while for her to finally bring up a "where is this going talk" with him. I know rationally you already know it's a pointless exercise to wonder how their relationship is, but I can't imagine this guy's 2 year relationship with this woman would be one that would have made me happy if I were in her place, even if they are currently happy together. He was extremely difficult to deal with and date, in spite of our good times and good chemistry, and he's already proven he can be out at any moment with no warning... that issue won't change until he does self-work, and I'm not looking for someone whose commitment I can't trust. So the takeaway is, maybe they are happy together but that doesn't mean you'd have been happy if he stuck around, especially after you were given so many reasons not to trust his commitment ability. Thanks Alexandra….and yes…..I do know this. There are a couple of things at play….one is…why does he get to have the relationship he wanted and I don’t…..especially because I have been in therapy for so long and he hasn’t. It feels like a huge injustice and yes…..I am starting to feel angry…I already had my anger at myself for staying too long and I understand the whys….now I want to fully feel the anger towards B for sticking around when he wasn’t in it…for only telling me I was a cuddle buddy afterthe fact….and this is strictly about B and no one else. I feel embarrassed and lied to (at least I feel it was half true)….I feel he did not show me love and increase my confidence like he said he wanted to do (after the fact). Secondly….my mind really struggles with how different he was with her…and it fills in the blanks in a compare way. It isn’t that I wish him ill or anything like that….I am still learning how to gracefully let go, own my anger (and yes I know that it truly is not B that I am angry at…he is not the source…but…I want to get some anger out….and I still can’t be angry at mom) and sit with the hurt and know that it does not define who I am or my worth.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 1, 2021 18:20:50 GMT
why does he get to have the relationship he wanted and I don’t…..especially because I have been in therapy for so long and he hasn’t. That all sounds like you're moving ahead with processing the situation, which is a good thing. My only additional comment is, when someone hasn't worked through their issues, they are looking for a fantasy relationship where they don't need to be fully present or vulnerable or connected, which is less work and easier to find (though not necessarily to sustain in the real long-term unless you find someone determined to remain equally stuck in their own issues with you). If you're looking to grow and connect more deeply and challenge doing something only on the partner's terms because your terms are also important, then that kind of relationship is a shadow of a healthy relationship anyway. If that's the kind of relationship he wants and now has, which is more about companionship at all costs than actual connection, then he's selling himself short in a way you're learning not to do. You're doing the hard work to self-actualize and be happy whereas, arguably, he's trying to survive in his loop. Maybe he gets companionship and is content in his marriage, but you get to not stay stuck on repeat. And since I've been in the middle of this process, I know that's hard to believe when you're in the middle of it and not on the other side, but what you're trying to do will bring you a lot more emotional calmness and people who don't work out their issues stay in unhappy inner turmoil. How many unaware insecurely attached people of all types come to this board unhappy or questioning or doubtful of their romantic relationships, even if they've been in them for years which implies some sort of stable dynamic (even if the stability of the dynamic is its constant turmoil)? Eventually, once I got through the anger and processing, I landed at a point where I was happy I minimized my contact with my exes who treated me unfairly and took control over my own life and choices to make space from people who were toxic, and there is no more what if or comparison between where we each are in our lives. They can continue making their own messes or hopefully one day work their way out of it to be happier people. I hope for their sake it is the latter, but they'll do whatever they choose to do with no bearing on me. Which I think is still tangentially related to the process of getting over someone and the original thread purpose
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