Post by dwilliams on Aug 7, 2023 18:19:50 GMT
I met an avoidant attachment woman last November. (I'd never heard of attachment theory at the time). We dated for a little over three months. At first, everything was wonderful. She asked me to join her in most every activity she was doing. I felt we were growing really close. It was wonderful. We immensely enjoyed each other's company, and had the most wonderful sex life I can imagine. I'd even had a conversation early on about what she wanted out of the relationship. I told her I was looking for someone to share the rest of my life with. She said she was too. I thought we'd both found what we were looking for. Things were great!
But then, she was under a lot of stress late in our relationship over a law suit stemming from the sale of a business she had owned but sold. She never told me she had a personal law suit against her. She tends to give me bits of information embedded within other information. She's done this sort of thing more than once - provided a tiny hidden clue and expected me to ask about it and got angry when I didn't. She tends to provide information that clouds a hint. For example, the law suit she mentioned in the middle of talking about stress from her work as a CPA. Paraphrasing, "I'm so stressed with work about this and about that and about the law suit and about something else to do with work." I assumed the law suit had to do with her work. Being a CPA, I figured it had to do with taxes and maybe a client had to go to court about a tax issue - she gave no details, simply embedded the law suit comment within other information - and no doubt, she wanted me to ask about it. When I assumed it was accounting related and didn't ask, she was furious because I assumed rather than asked. There was nothing in her discussion of work and stress that would have led me to believe it was a lawsuit against her personally and had nothing to do with her work. It was all about work stress, except the embedded law suit comment. It never occurred to me to ask. Don't people make simply assumptions every day when there's a lack of information? Or "hidden" clues? One has to make assumptions sometimes else they can't process information and move on.
Eventually, she started - I can only say "manufacturing" or "imagining" problems with me that weren't real. She began withdrawing, accusing me of things I didn't do. We are both dancers and she claimed that because of me, some men who used to ask her to dance stopped asking. I figured it was because once they realized we were in a relationship, they stopped chasing her for dances. That may be true, but it's certainly no more than 50% my "fault" and 50% hers - we were both in the relationship. She told me that four men at the dance had said I'd "glared" at them and that she'd broken up with a man in D.C. she had dated in the past because he got jealous of men she danced with. I never glared at anyone! I completed trusted her and never felt any jealousy. It was totally manufactured or imagined somehow. Regardless, it got worse from there. The next week, she got angry when I asked her to dance after she'd been turned down by another man. The other man is a friend and he told me, since he was standing right there and heard and saw it all, that he didn't see that I'd done anything wrong at all. I didn't. She just wanted me to have done something wrong. She stormed out of the front door. I figured I'd let her go - that she went out to blow off steam and settle down and would come back in feeling better. But no, she came back in and asked angrily why I hadn't followed her out to find out what was wrong. I didn't want to follow an angry hornets nest out the door. I was sure to have been stung. Since I didn't follow her out, it meant to her that I didn't care. But if I had followed her, she'd probably have found reason to be angry about that.
She called me the next day and broke up with me, saying mainly that "I'm just not falling in love with you". I think she WAS falling in love and became fearful and pushed me away.
So that's the beginning and the end of our being a "couple". I put the word "couple" in parentheses because she refused to consider us a couple or boyfriend-girlfriend even though we committed to not date anyone else and to have sex with no one else. And we went everywhere together. Isn't that a couple? When dating and she would introduce me to people, I was always her "friend" .. never her boyfriend. She didn't want people to believe we were a couple.
One week after breaking up, she got in touch and said "Let's keep the best of what we had". By that she meant sex. She wanted to be friends with benefits. I agreed, as our sex life was amazing and I cared a great deal for her. I didn't necessarily believe it was going to be more than friends with benefits, but if we started to grow close again, well, that would be great. So we started meeting at my place after whatever dance she went to and whatever dance I went to (we started dancing at different venues). When she got there, it was 2 hours of play and steamy sex. Great. I thought.
Initially, she laid out one rule: we don't make plans in advance to get together - that's how friend with benefits operate. It always had to be spur of the moment - "I'm available tonight, are you?". This went on for two months, during which she began to "violate" the rule of getting together for sex always being spur of the moment. And a couple of times she asked about having dinner together or going to a club together and once about taking a cruise together. Those of course were contrary to what she said initially she wanted. I didn't call that out because I was happy to see more of her. It seemed to me our relationship was rekindling.
During the following weeks, we started spending more time together - a lot in the bedroom, but outside as well. I was encouraged. I was in love with her and I thought she was in love with me. But neither of us had ever said "I love you" to the other. One night, because it had been going so well, I got brave (or stupid) and said something I figured she'd just ignore. I said to her, "I love you, and I know you love me". To my great surprise, she answered "I do love you". For me, this was a green light to further our relationship. As an aside, all the time from when we started being friends with benefits, she insisted no one know we were secretly seeing each other. Even her best friends. But now that she'd said she loved me, I asked her if we could at least let her close friends know. We could still keep it a "secret" to the dance community. I didn't want to stir that hornets nest and I had a someone else - a dance partner - to dance with (no intimate relationship - just dancing) so she found her a dance partner too. But we still only were intimate with each other. I tried to have a conversation with her one day about the secrecy of our relationship. The mere mention of anyone else knowing shut her down pretty quickly. She said I misunderstood her when she said she loved me. I figured I misunderstood and felt we had retrogressed. Or worse, that she'd break all contact off and move on.
Then, to my surprise, she got in touch and asked if I'd like to go to Busch Gardens with her and her best girl friend and another female friend. Of course I accepted. Two days later she told me she "accidentally" let another good friend know we were testing out seeing each other again. So though she initially pulled away and shut down the conversation about letting some others know about us, she let two friends know and invited me to go with one to Busch Gardens. Then a few weeks later, she asked me to go to dinner and Top Golf with her and two other couples and the next day, on a sponge boat (google it if you're interested) with one of the couples from the night before. Progress!
I've learned though that I can't push her, get overly excited or confident about being a "couple" again. I don't know if these changes in letting some people know about us were "bread crumbs" to keep me hanging on. Or whether she really does love me?
Question: How do I know if she was giving me breadcrumbs to keep me around when she wants me around, or true progress toward a healthy relationship?
But then, she was under a lot of stress late in our relationship over a law suit stemming from the sale of a business she had owned but sold. She never told me she had a personal law suit against her. She tends to give me bits of information embedded within other information. She's done this sort of thing more than once - provided a tiny hidden clue and expected me to ask about it and got angry when I didn't. She tends to provide information that clouds a hint. For example, the law suit she mentioned in the middle of talking about stress from her work as a CPA. Paraphrasing, "I'm so stressed with work about this and about that and about the law suit and about something else to do with work." I assumed the law suit had to do with her work. Being a CPA, I figured it had to do with taxes and maybe a client had to go to court about a tax issue - she gave no details, simply embedded the law suit comment within other information - and no doubt, she wanted me to ask about it. When I assumed it was accounting related and didn't ask, she was furious because I assumed rather than asked. There was nothing in her discussion of work and stress that would have led me to believe it was a lawsuit against her personally and had nothing to do with her work. It was all about work stress, except the embedded law suit comment. It never occurred to me to ask. Don't people make simply assumptions every day when there's a lack of information? Or "hidden" clues? One has to make assumptions sometimes else they can't process information and move on.
Eventually, she started - I can only say "manufacturing" or "imagining" problems with me that weren't real. She began withdrawing, accusing me of things I didn't do. We are both dancers and she claimed that because of me, some men who used to ask her to dance stopped asking. I figured it was because once they realized we were in a relationship, they stopped chasing her for dances. That may be true, but it's certainly no more than 50% my "fault" and 50% hers - we were both in the relationship. She told me that four men at the dance had said I'd "glared" at them and that she'd broken up with a man in D.C. she had dated in the past because he got jealous of men she danced with. I never glared at anyone! I completed trusted her and never felt any jealousy. It was totally manufactured or imagined somehow. Regardless, it got worse from there. The next week, she got angry when I asked her to dance after she'd been turned down by another man. The other man is a friend and he told me, since he was standing right there and heard and saw it all, that he didn't see that I'd done anything wrong at all. I didn't. She just wanted me to have done something wrong. She stormed out of the front door. I figured I'd let her go - that she went out to blow off steam and settle down and would come back in feeling better. But no, she came back in and asked angrily why I hadn't followed her out to find out what was wrong. I didn't want to follow an angry hornets nest out the door. I was sure to have been stung. Since I didn't follow her out, it meant to her that I didn't care. But if I had followed her, she'd probably have found reason to be angry about that.
She called me the next day and broke up with me, saying mainly that "I'm just not falling in love with you". I think she WAS falling in love and became fearful and pushed me away.
So that's the beginning and the end of our being a "couple". I put the word "couple" in parentheses because she refused to consider us a couple or boyfriend-girlfriend even though we committed to not date anyone else and to have sex with no one else. And we went everywhere together. Isn't that a couple? When dating and she would introduce me to people, I was always her "friend" .. never her boyfriend. She didn't want people to believe we were a couple.
One week after breaking up, she got in touch and said "Let's keep the best of what we had". By that she meant sex. She wanted to be friends with benefits. I agreed, as our sex life was amazing and I cared a great deal for her. I didn't necessarily believe it was going to be more than friends with benefits, but if we started to grow close again, well, that would be great. So we started meeting at my place after whatever dance she went to and whatever dance I went to (we started dancing at different venues). When she got there, it was 2 hours of play and steamy sex. Great. I thought.
Initially, she laid out one rule: we don't make plans in advance to get together - that's how friend with benefits operate. It always had to be spur of the moment - "I'm available tonight, are you?". This went on for two months, during which she began to "violate" the rule of getting together for sex always being spur of the moment. And a couple of times she asked about having dinner together or going to a club together and once about taking a cruise together. Those of course were contrary to what she said initially she wanted. I didn't call that out because I was happy to see more of her. It seemed to me our relationship was rekindling.
During the following weeks, we started spending more time together - a lot in the bedroom, but outside as well. I was encouraged. I was in love with her and I thought she was in love with me. But neither of us had ever said "I love you" to the other. One night, because it had been going so well, I got brave (or stupid) and said something I figured she'd just ignore. I said to her, "I love you, and I know you love me". To my great surprise, she answered "I do love you". For me, this was a green light to further our relationship. As an aside, all the time from when we started being friends with benefits, she insisted no one know we were secretly seeing each other. Even her best friends. But now that she'd said she loved me, I asked her if we could at least let her close friends know. We could still keep it a "secret" to the dance community. I didn't want to stir that hornets nest and I had a someone else - a dance partner - to dance with (no intimate relationship - just dancing) so she found her a dance partner too. But we still only were intimate with each other. I tried to have a conversation with her one day about the secrecy of our relationship. The mere mention of anyone else knowing shut her down pretty quickly. She said I misunderstood her when she said she loved me. I figured I misunderstood and felt we had retrogressed. Or worse, that she'd break all contact off and move on.
Then, to my surprise, she got in touch and asked if I'd like to go to Busch Gardens with her and her best girl friend and another female friend. Of course I accepted. Two days later she told me she "accidentally" let another good friend know we were testing out seeing each other again. So though she initially pulled away and shut down the conversation about letting some others know about us, she let two friends know and invited me to go with one to Busch Gardens. Then a few weeks later, she asked me to go to dinner and Top Golf with her and two other couples and the next day, on a sponge boat (google it if you're interested) with one of the couples from the night before. Progress!
I've learned though that I can't push her, get overly excited or confident about being a "couple" again. I don't know if these changes in letting some people know about us were "bread crumbs" to keep me hanging on. Or whether she really does love me?
Question: How do I know if she was giving me breadcrumbs to keep me around when she wants me around, or true progress toward a healthy relationship?
