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Post by cherrycola on Sept 4, 2023 1:31:27 GMT
First off, happy birthday.
I'm sorry you are going through this, do you know any grounding/self regulation activities? Do you have any friends you can turn to for support? I think he has been pretty clear in telling you what he can handle. If anything he is pulling back because he is realizing that despite his honesty, you are choosing to see something that isn't there. He has given you the classic "It isn't you, it's me" and you are just trying to make yourself smaller and pretzel yourself into a box to fit into that. There is really a sense of you romanticizing this entire thing. What is romantic about a guy who continually tells you that he can't show up for you, and then you go, that's okay! I have been there and it becomes an act of self-flagulation.
You act like his "fears" are just something he needs to get over, like if not for his fears, we are perfect for each other! But his fear is actually a relationship incompatibility, full stop. I would say if anything he is pulling back because he senses your over investment.
So it is time to really think about what are you getting out of this? And what are your own fears around commitment that you are continuing to be with him?
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Post by introvert on Sept 5, 2023 0:01:20 GMT
I mean, it should be fine. Now that you understand his fears you can probably make him comfortable and hopefully your distress from being cut off randomly will be a thing of the past. Give it all you've got, you only live once!
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Post by cherrycola on Sept 5, 2023 1:32:06 GMT
As someone who has dabbled in poly and ENM I understand that they don't have to be formal, but what they do need is to meet each others needs. He doesn't really seem to be meeting your needs and you are on an internet forum complaining about that instead of having a discussion with him. That is where your own insecurity is playing in here. You said he isn't really sleeping with you anymore, nor is he wanting to travel with you. So you either accept that he doesn't want these things and find someone who does, or you are going to stuck on this merry go round of him pulling you close when you get far and pushing you away when you get close. That is what FAs are good at.
If you have reflected and you truly are okay with this person who sets the terms of the relationship and you accept, then I hope you two work things out and can continue to date. But I really do hope you take some time to consider if this is really working for you, or maybe you need to downgrade him in your life to a friend and then find another person to give you the things you want, ie sex and a travel partner.
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Post by cherrycola on Sept 5, 2023 2:23:45 GMT
This is of course a place meant for talking about attachment, but your post really focuses on him and what is going on for him, instead of your own insecurities. that is why I said to focus on what you want. We can't really tell you what is going on for him, but a lot of us have been involved with FAs and it has never ended well. If you take a look around at posts here you can see the same story playing out over and over.
"I want to continue seeing him but a part of me, a little one, knows that it's calmer without him"
This is what I meant about focusing on yourself, your inner child is giving you knowledge here. So take a few minutes to sit with it. He does not seem like a safe person for you if you can not detach to the point where his hot and cold behavior does not bother you. But if that behavior triggers you then it doesn't really matter what else he has to offer you, it isn't a good fit. Poly or not.
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Post by introvert on Sept 5, 2023 3:59:04 GMT
I mean, it should be fine. Now that you understand his fears you can probably make him comfortable and hopefully your distress from being cut off randomly will be a thing of the past. Give it all you've got, you only live once! Hello and thank you for your warm and reassuring words (what an AP wants to hear ajajaj) We haven't met yet but it will be very soon, a strange and interesting thing that happened to me yesterday and today it's that I felt in some way detached...I don't know how. I kept on thinking on how bad I felt sometimes with Hot and cold behaviour, even if I know he never meant to hurt me and he is not at all an asshole with me. But a part of my body felt that the pain I have endured had been rough and now it even seemed calmer. And that this sudden walls, limits and distance have changed a bit my feelings for him. I still am in love but it's like I can see the heavy complexity of all this and the anxiety of the last months and I see myself putting an arm length between us. Something like this. It's strange. I want to continue seeing him but a part of me, a little one, knows that it's calmer without him. I am more relaxed for meeting him, but I don't know what will happen cause the idea was to meet for my bday anyway, so I don't think his idea of a time apart has changed, however, when he reached out he told me that he had thought about reaching out a few times to know about me but he thought that it was inappropriate. This is what I mean, if you need distance, why would you want to know about me and how I am doing, usually you need distance NOT to know about me. I have no expectations to be honest and I was telling myself all day to take it very easy, even while preparing for this meeting, like being less anxious than all the other times where everything had to be almost perfect. If we don't touch each other, well, we will see how it feels like. As a good FA/DA he is not usually the one initiating contact and sexual interaction and this time I will be calm about it tbh. Let's see, I will be out of his country for two weeks so distant anyway for sure. To be honest, I figured it was what you wanted to hear, so I indulged you. It's completely unrealistic to take this approach, but you will benefit from experiencing the results of your efforts as all of us have, in various ways, before we came to the understanding we have now. The stakes are not that high, it's just an insecure relationship, and whatever it costs you in the end will be worth it if it helps you to understand how your own AP style can deceive you with wishful thinking. Or, on the off chance things work out in a way that is fulfilling to you, it's a win, and any naysayers were wrong. It's truly not the end of the world either way, as you know. And as for the YOLO, that's what made me decide to get serious about my own issues because I didn't want to stay stuck. Best of luck to you, let us know how it goes over time. |
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Post by mrob on Sept 5, 2023 6:00:57 GMT
This probably isn’t your usual forum with all the frothy, and ultimately unhelpful advice. This is a forum where fortunately there are people of each type willing to share their experience.
When it’s all boiled down, people act in patterns. I’ll bet not long after you go, he will contact you, professing to miss you. Too close, too far. That’s what an unaware FA will do. Even an aware FA will find it hard not to.
So, people aren’t trying to be unhelpful here by promoting you to look inside yourself, quite the opposite.
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Post by introvert on Sept 5, 2023 9:56:21 GMT
This probably isn’t your usual forum with all the frothy, and ultimately unhelpful advice. This is a forum where fortunately there are people of each type willing to share their experience. When it’s all boiled down, people act in patterns. I’ll bet not long after you go, he will contact you, professing to miss you. Too close, too far. That’s what an unaware FA will do. Even an aware FA will find it hard not to. So, people aren’t trying to be unhelpful here by promoting you to look inside yourself, quite the opposite. I am grateful to the people here wishing to help me. We met and it was beautiful for both of us in every aspect as I imagined...mentally and sexually. He said many things I would not imagine like he was nervous before seeing me, we decided to meet before I travel outside the country but and when I asked about what we are doing with distance that he asked he was again super conflicted, he said that one week was not enough for him to understand and tha tin this week he missed me loads and thought about me a lot, much more of what he thought it would be. He is NOT the type of guy telling you these things AT ALL. He is not a romantic Latin lover type and he really always measure his words so I know it was not easy for him to be honest about it. He added that its his brain and it is not easy at all to him to 'not resist' what we have, and that he needs distance cause he is 'too afraid of feeling (for me)', which is clear he already does to be honest, so it's pretty absurd, even asking for distance but obviously wanting to meet me today and before I travel. I see he is like fighting his own feelings and looks for a distance he doesn't want to really put just wishing that distance would erase his feelings. It's absurd. I have never seen in my life someone SO conflicted d about feeling in love or so. I told him that 'distance has effects on me and pushes me away' which is true. He said he is not stupid and he knows and he noticed it when he first saw me tonight, by my attitude. I have no idea what to say or do, he wants more distance but he says tha the wants to meet me soon, so bah, I hope I will feel so comfortable with it as I was today so that I will be able to manage it in the next weeks. Will update you! He behaves as if he is cheating on someone with you. What an absolute mindfuck. |
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Post by mrob on Sept 5, 2023 13:39:13 GMT
Those aren’t unusual thoughts, although I would never have articulated it to another soul in such a way. He’s actually telling you what’s going on inside. That’s the fearful in FA.
Unfortunately, you can have everything going for you, but attachment style seems to trump everything. Every time you push him for an escalation, this jumble of emotions will happen. An escalation can be looking for clarity in your relationship status all the way to moving in and having children. Been there in his situation, done that. Yuck all round.
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Post by introvert on Sept 5, 2023 13:42:52 GMT
He behaves as if he is cheating on someone with you. What an absolute mindfuck. [/quote] Ahahaha this made me laugh hard! No it could be anything but not at all this, no girlfriend there, believe me he makes everything to be allergic to it as you see hahaha and I have been extensively in his life, friendships etc to know it. But yes, it is fuc*** up and I think the person he thinks he is cheating by being in love with me.....is himself! I have no other answer than it. It's like he cheats on himself and the idea that he would have not fell in love ever again [/quote] You are his perfect match if you tolerate it, that's how these insecure dynamics work. You're caught in what is called the Anxious/Avoidant trap. |
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Post by introvert on Sept 5, 2023 15:48:54 GMT
He behaves as if he is cheating on someone with you. What an absolute mindfuck. Ahahaha this made me laugh hard! No it could be anything but not at all this, no girlfriend there, believe me he makes everything to be allergic to it as you see hahaha and I have been extensively in his life, friendships etc to know it. But yes, it is fuc*** up and I think the person he thinks he is cheating by being in love with me.....is himself! I have no other answer than it. It's like he cheats on himself and the idea that he would have not fell in love ever again You are his perfect match if you tolerate it, that's how these insecure dynamics work. You're caught in what is called the Anxious/Avoidant trap. [/quote] A part of me is not tolerating it too much anymore, another part is very fond of him even in this confusion as I appreciate he can say openly that he is afraid and a few other honest things that I think its difficult to say for people and especially for avoidants. Sometimes like now I am super good and fine with it, as I also received some love, sex and affection and mental complicity, which I think its important to receive in life no matter what. I appreciate all of it and I know he is not an asshole with me and he really is superscared. But of course I wont be there forever and ever, I will give him the distance he wants, I will be very far away for two weeks or more, so he has the distance he wants (even if he denied he wanted that distance but fuck off you will have it). I ll let you know. I just think i am stronger now that I know I was not making up lies for myself about his feelings and fears and I think this is good for my mental health, no matter what will happen. Cause otherwise its like feeling gaslighten by oneself, not just by the other. So this calms me down a lot and of course tells me that i was not randomnly romanticizing something that wasnt there. This world is scary, we should fear so many things and we fear the only good thing that could happen to us, love...and also, it is like a privilege, a lot of people starving out there (and I work with those people) would love to spend their time being paranoid about fears of love instead of not having food for their kids. Its impressive how fucked up we humans are. [/quote] Yes, I would imagine it is quite something to witness yourself in huge distress over your longing for sex and affection from a man who has made clear his limitations, juxtaposed with humans you work with who are in real crisis and had no choice in the matter. There are emotionally available men out there, and yet you starve for love by choice with the man who hides from you. I'm sure you know many individuals who would shake their heads right along with you. It truly is amazing how fucked up we are! |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 5, 2023 19:58:32 GMT
If you are able to step back and look at the bigger picture, being able to communicate and articulate fears while also not being able to take any real actions to be a solid and consistent romantic partner still leaves you with someone who cannot show up for you in the way you seek.
It seems you're questioning a lot if you should walk away because you feel he has good intentions, although he cannot follow through on them due to fear. And that somehow, it is noble for you to keep working through it because he gives you little breadcrumbs and he's not a bad person. You are a little focused on why someone with feelings of love or affection would want distance from that person, as if it has anything to do with you or maybe you can change it by finding the correct formula so his needs are met. If his needs are met, maybe in return he will meet your needs, too.
Unfortunately, that is not how any of this dynamic actually works.
Avoidants, especially FA, are looking for space from their attachment figures as that is what they learned when young and how their issues are. Their adult attachment figures when they were children were unpredictable and did not meet their needs... the child blames themselves for the adult's behavior, tries to appear to be something different that the adult may or may not like better, does not know if they will be scorned or neglected or accepted or possibly beaten or overindulged if they bring up a need, it is all about the ADULT not the child, which is the exact opposite of how it should be.
This child grows up disconnecting from themselves, doubting themselves, full of shame and fear, doesn't even know why a lot of the time. What they do know is the same person they loved and wanted to be attached to was also their source of fear. Their nervous system cannot get comfortable as this is all they learned love is: come close but not too close or I'll get hurt so go away but not too far and distant or I'll feel abandoned.
There is NO winning. The FA cannot trust themselves, cannot trust others, does not receive love in the same way or have the same needs as other attachment styles. FA fear both intimacy and abandonment because they cannot emotionally ground themselves. It is a tough life.
There is NOTHING that you can do about this. You did not cause it, you cannot fix it, it is for him to decide to do the very hard work to confront his own trauma and try to re-wire his own nervous system, preferably with professional help. If you give him space, he'll want to come closer, and then he'll need space again, and it repeats for as long as you allow without the relationship ever actually growing because of the self defense walls up that only he can take down through healing. Over a long, long period of time, through his own initiative, often with therapy.
You are not his therapist. You are not responsible for his need for space. You do not need to stay in a dysfunctional dynamic.
AP and other anxious-leaning insecure attachers (often anxious FA) often dealt with their own issues in childhood of inconsistent loved ones. They sometimes get their needs met but very unpredictably. So they start to believe they can find a magic formula and it's in their own control to do that to gett their needs met, if they can just mind read and make all the "correct" decisions. This is a self-defense mechanism from childhood as well, as you need to keep your own attachment figure around for your own survival as a child. So to stay attached, you think it's your own behavior, not the adult causing the unmet needs, and you force yourself to see the good, forgive and accept the unforgivable and unacceptable, and see what I call hope in the inconsistency.
This is not cause for hope. It is only inconsistent. That's it.
But as people push and pull and see a little progress but then many backwards steps and space, they stay and stay and hope things will change, and do not realize that in doing so, time passes and the push/pull IS the dynamic. That is what the love looks like. That is what you've built together, even if you thought you didn't mean to. So if you continue, you will keep getting more and more of the same thing you've already seen. Close connection followed by pain followed by reconnection. That's what he's comfortable with, if you stay romantically that's what you're comfortable with, too.
That is why the choice is yours.
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Post by anne12 on Sept 6, 2023 5:17:14 GMT
He could be characterized by the rigid character structure ? jebkinnisonforum.com/post/37459/Feeling Happiness and joy can also be a trigger to people influenced by the second character structure There are 3 really good reasons for this: 1) the familiar gives the old part of the brain (limbic system and brainstem) reassurance * 2) trauma/stress energy pulls us from the joy energy into the trauma vortex * 3) if you have not been used to joy and presence in your first years of life (up to 4 years), then the nervous system has not matured for as much excitement/happiness as it provides. - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/48729/- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/49080/The beginning of the relationship seems to have been pretty intense… - sometimes if the fa moves too fast in a relationship their nervous system can’t cope with all the intensity even if they want to move fast themselves. They can also cross their own boundaries without being aware of it, and of course they can also cross the other persons boundaries A lot of Fas likes to be in control The Fas biggest fear - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/47401/Aps also have to be aware of not moving too fast, aps can without being aware of it themselves, being a little pushy and needy with their energy and with their body language, whiteout doing something active. The Val method jebkinnisonforum.com/post/50281/After all that you have been through you could have been pushed into some desorganized attatchmentstyle/behavior / trauma yourself ? - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/12359/Also the kind of work you do can have an influence on you, working with traumatized refugees ect., as we are all more or less being affected by other peoples energy and nerveus system state Do you know about the dance between the feminine / masculine energy and how to be/switch between them ? (The healthy ones, not the false ones). There are some tips and ideas in the general discussion forum. After people have become secure, they often also can benefit from working with their feminine/ masculine energy jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1376/womens-feminine-masculine-energy-hormonelAs women we are in our masculine energy when we are at work, and when we have to get something done, but we also need our feminine energy which often helps us to feel happy and it also attracts the masculine in men. Fas can often either be more feminine leaning or more masculine leaning What are you, do you think, when you are not at work ? And him ? More feminine or more masculine in your energy ? You seem to take a lot of initiatives in the relationship or ? Why did you have sex the last time you saw him ? Women are more affected by the bonding hormone oxytocin than men when having sex ect. It takes longer time for oxytocin to leave the body than it does for men… When having sex, the tension in ans increases. This can trigger trauma as trauma connects with intensity. We are having sex from the instinctive level of our nerveus system - fa and sex - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/37326/- there are 3 systems running when making love / when we are having sex - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/37258/- sex and the nerveussystem- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/38553/Also men doesn’t/don’t get affected by sex the same way as women do, because they don’t produce the same amount of oxytocin as we women do, because of their level of testosterone Also men needs to do something to get their level of testosterone up again after having sex….which is different from women after having sex… IMO we have to remember that besides the different attachment styles we also have to think about the difference between men and women, the masculine / feminine energy, how men and women are affected buy hormones, how we stress differently and what we need after stress ect. |
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Post by anne12 on Sept 6, 2023 10:24:08 GMT
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Post by introvert on Sept 6, 2023 14:40:12 GMT
It seems you are beginning to see that this is not all about him running from "love", and that there is a lot of self-medicating going on in your attachment to him. Your own trauma shapes your approach to relationship and sex, and that's what needs your attention because a trauma-based relationship isn't healing for anyone, it is just reliving trauma. Sex as a coping mechanism is a drug. There are elements of your post that read like trauma based sex addiction.
His FA attachment aside, why would anyone feel safe as the object of your addiction? It can become a two way street, in which his unhealed parts are triggered too. That's not secure love, it's a cycle of triggers.
I've been in a scenario before where I was an object to crave, and it's toxic. I've craved a man, and it was toxic. It was two people running from their own past and while we appreciated each other's positive traits, the bond was simple intoxication and I'm glad it's over because I see it for what it was. It was actually pretty sick. But in the heat of it I was convinced that it was what I needed.
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Post by introvert on Sept 6, 2023 14:52:07 GMT
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