tyke
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by tyke on Oct 10, 2023 21:38:27 GMT
This time last week I had never even heard of attachment theory - so please do bear with me if I get things wrong or use incorrect terms. I'm reading up on things as fast as I can though, so hopefully I'll soon have a much better understanding...
Anyway, I'm looking for some advice really on what to do about a very recent split from my gf. She (33) and I (35) had been properly together for about a year, but have known each other for over 20 years, during which time our paths have crossed a few times. She has a young child and lives alone, having separated from the child's father (he left her) when the baby was a few months old.
I came out of a very long term relationship to be with her, and relocated a few hundred miles to a place where I had no social circle at hand. The first few months of our relationship were incredible, we've always gotten along so well, and it felt like something had finally clicked for us and we were now making up for lost time. I didn't miss the social circle I left behind - but perhaps in hindsight this was a really intense period for both of us and she came to see me as being dependent on her.
After a few months though we started to have some wobbles. We had a row about something trivial and she suddenly told me that she didn't think I even liked her. I found this hard to understand as I frequently (and this is where I think I may fall into the Anxious Preoccupied type) told her how much I loved her, and treated her to flowers, gifts etc. We got past this argument (I thought) but a month or so later she told me she felt we were in a rut and that things were just becoming a routine. I'd been of the view that as a parent to a small child things would inevitably be 'routiney' as she had set days with her child. She was also very specific about keeping her routine with activities she considered good for her mindfulness - which I accepted even though it meant we very rarely could have any 'date night' type things. I tried to mix things up a bit but ultimately she wasn't willing to compromise much on her side, and I was worried about upsetting her by pressuring her to change, so things carried on until a month later she told me she no longer felt like herself and she needed a break.
After a week or so apart she reached out to me and said she felt silly for pushing me away, and we reconciled. We agreed to spend less time together in the day time (I'd been working from home at her house most days) to give her some alone time, and for us to both work on the relationship. She did mention going back to her old therapist, but ultimately cost considerations stopped her doing this.
Things went pretty ok then for a couple more months (although she wasn't very keen on discussing feelings or the future too much), but when she unexpectedly lost her job it she soon started to become more distant. I felt anxious about this and tried to address it by showing her more love, trying to reassure and support her, getting her more little treats etc. In the end though I knew what was coming, and she eventually told me she wanted to split up. She explained she just wanted to be alone and she felt something was just missing from our relationship.
A week on she reached out to me telling me she was anxious avoidant, had always had some insecurities about relationships in general and felt emotionally exhausted from juggling our relationship with being a mum and her work issues. She explained when I did nice things for her she felt overwhelmed and guilty. She went on to say she was sorry she hadn't worked on things and that she had pushed me away, that she was still thinking about me, loved me and always would, was so sad and lost without me, and found it difficult to think about a future without me in it. I replied that it would be good to talk about this in person and she agreed we would arrange it. She then started messaging me recent photos of herself and child and just talking to me like nothing had changed.
Then she went quiet again. I haven't heard from her for 3 days and I don't really know what to do. Should I check in on her, or does she need space? If we do meet up what do I really say to her? I love her and saw my future with her, but she sends such mixed messages, blows hot and cold and honestly has damaged my mental health in recent months in a way that I have never experienced in my life. Is this a cycle that would just continue or is there a realistic future there where we could be happy together?
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 11, 2023 1:36:45 GMT
You can reach out as a friend who cares about her…however….I would take her at her word…she cares and loves you, but as a “friend”. Unless and until she addresses her own trauma…she will not be able to be in a relationship without bouncing between feelings of being too close or being too far. There is nothing you can do about it because those warning signals are within her. Too often…and I did this too…a partner will not take an FA at his/her word and will instead try to find a way to change things….however, this doesn’t work because the root cause is her trauma and only she can decide to address it.
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Post by cherrycola on Oct 11, 2023 2:58:52 GMT
Lots to unpack here, but this part really stuck out to me because it actually mirrors some things that happened in my own life.
"I came out of a very long term relationship to be with her, and relocated a few hundred miles to a place where I had no social circle at hand. The first few months of our relationship were incredible, we've always gotten along so well, and it felt like something had finally clicked for us and we were now making up for lost time. I didn't miss the social circle I left behind - but perhaps in hindsight this was a really intense period for both of us and she came to see me as being dependent on her."
What was it in you that drove you to leave a long term relationship and completely uproot your life? And have you processed the ending of that relationship? What were you running from?
"I felt anxious about this and tried to address it by showing her more love, trying to reassure and support her, getting her more little treats etc." "She explained when I did nice things for her she felt overwhelmed and guilty."
There is doing nice things with no expectation of anything in return and then there is doing nice things out of insecurity and trying to get the other person to come closer and they can feel VERY different to the receiver. Throw in someone who has an FA attachment and it can feel very much like an obligation. It can also trigger feelings of guilt, because then you just feel like a shit person for not appreciating this wonderful person who is doing nice things for you and the reason why you are uncomfortable can be very hard to tease out.
If there was no kid, and she was in therapy / stable I would say this stands a chance and may be worth fighting for, but with the kid thrown in, I really don't know. I don't blame her for feeling like she can't balance it all. In addition you are in a position of being dependent on her for all your social needs and she may feel that.
If you want any chance at all of salvaging this, you need to be your own person with your own life and you need to be in therapy. As a recovering FA nothing is sexier to me than a person who has their own things going on. It allows me time to breath and do MY own things without feeling guilty for not always wanting to be together.
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Post by introvert on Oct 11, 2023 3:57:57 GMT
Parenting a young child is a very deep commitment. It sounds like she is steadfastly committed to keeping her routine as she needs it to be in order to balance her parent role with her work, again a tough balance even with split time between parents. Adding a relationship to the mix didn't work for her, especially as you tried to change things up. Her priority is not the relationship and that is ok, it's totally appropriate for her to prioritize her child and personal well being. That's good for the kid. even if she is avoidant in romance every avoidant I know prioritizes their offspring and supporting them, over a romantic relationship (including me). Her routines are not going to budge much either, as a avoidants are much less willing to alter themselves for a relationship than anxious are, like it or not you can't change that. ( I have been able to work past this myself (over years) but with young children in the pic I wouldn't even have been interested in changing for a relationship. The kids are number one and I have to be my best self and take care of my needs to be a good mom.)
All of this means, this didn't work, she's not available for the relationship you want.
If she didn't feel like herself, that's a sign that she hasn't figured out what works for her as a parent in terms of "Where does a relationship fit into my life?", and she was altering her genuine self to try to fit into the relationship.
As she's a parent, its not all just about attachment insecurity in the relationship. There are other important factors.
Unfortunately, in spite of any attachment feels or love you two share, she's not wanting to put energy into it. That's something you will need to accept, and let go. Work to understand your own attachment style more than hers. If you're insecure, you'll be obsessed trying to figure her out now instead of really diving in to how this went wrong on your end due to your own relationship blind spots. Which is a toxic way to be.
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Post by introvert on Oct 11, 2023 3:59:07 GMT
Oh and yeah, this is a dead end, it won't make you happy or be what you want it to be. What you see is what you get.
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tyke
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by tyke on Oct 11, 2023 8:14:07 GMT
Thanks for all your replies on this guys, it is appreciated. I guess I'm still trying to come to terms with the idea that this isn't something I can "fix" and that for all the love we share, and the thoughts about how much potential we had together, the relationship may still not work as fundamentally we're not compatible. I think there's a degree of just unfortunate timing as well, so much is happening in her life right now that I totally understand how throwing a relationship into the equation - and one with someone who she feels somewhat responsible for - just cannot work.
She's agreed to meet me tomorrow for a chat about things, but reading your responses above and sifting through this forum, my expectations are that this could well be a goodbye. I don't have the mental strength to just be friends with her and she's already told me she doesn't want to string me along when there's no certainty of if or when things might be ok again for us.
In terms of my own issues, I have reached out to a therapist to discuss my struggles. I don't think I ever thought of buying flowers and other stuff for my girlfriend as being something I was doing for myself - but who knows really. I just thought it was a nice thing to do and it would make her feel loved. But I had no idea about what it meant to be FA and how ultimately it was really counter-productive.
I guess I just feel super frustrated, and sad, that despite all the early promise and the plans we made for the future, this relationship was maybe doomed from the start and I just didn't know it. And yet a tiny part of me still feels somehow like it could work and we can get through it - but the more I come to understand about attachment the more I think this is maybe naive on my part and I really should just let her go and take some time to work on myself.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 11, 2023 13:16:24 GMT
I don't think this is a bad timing issue. Yes, there's a lot going on and she has a lot of stress, but that's adult life in general. How one responds to external stressors is an indication of their emotional health, ability to be in a healthy relationship, communication skills, compatibility and goals (ie are you at the same life stage and wanting the same things in life and in a relationship), etc. So there's actually no better way to see if a relationship can really go the distance than having problems and issues in life come up and seeing if you're able to handle them together or if you grow apart instead. It's so important that it's actually a much better indication of the staying power of the relationship than good times, even if it's the far less fun and sexy side.
Because of the issues you two have and the dynamics involved in an anxious-avoidant (FA) and AP pairing, it's true that the outcome may have been inevitable. You didn't know what you didn't know and needed time and experience to learn the information you needed to decide what works for you and what doesn't. That's okay, and now that you have that information and awareness, you can see the situation for what it is rather than for its "potential." APs do tend to date potential rather than allow themselves to fully and realistically see their partners and relationships for who and what they are. This can be a defense mechanism learned earlier in life to stay attached to people and situations who can't meet your needs... always seeing ideal potential rather than admitting it's not a good match allows you to stay connected to someone emotionally unsafe (usually echos of past childhood relationships where this may have been necessary for survival).
It's good you're taking steps to start therapy, because it is a lot to leave all the stability you had behind to take a leap for a relationship that was fun and intense but not yet stable or established. It sounds like making that leap was what you needed to do at the time to explore what you wanted and what could be, and now it's time to go deeper and figure out what you're really trying to fix within yourself, rather than trying to fix something through another person.
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tyke
New Member
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Post by tyke on Oct 11, 2023 15:06:45 GMT
Thanks alexandra. Your summary of how things have progressed for me is pretty much spot on and I take your point about stress being a good test of a relationship's strength.
It did take a lot to leave the stability I had previously, but I did it because I was no longer happy - (comfortable, but not happy) in that relationship, and hadn't been for some time. The promise of this new relationship was exciting, and felt like something that had been on the cards my whole life given our shared history, so I felt like I had to make that leap.
The reality of the new relationship however has ultimately not been what either of us may have expected, and for that I feel both saddened and somewhat foolish. I don't blame my new partner, she had a tough childhood and has shared her own struggles with me - so I think she is doing what's best for herself and her child. Perhaps in that regard I envy her - she's had the strength to walk away from things when I've kept on hanging in there, feeling at times like I can do no right or unappreciated, all in the hope that things would improve because "we're good together". I think I need some time to grieve that lost fantasy future, but also as you say to look at my own needs so I don't just end up back in this position again.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 11, 2023 16:39:39 GMT
It's pretty common also for AP to envy the ability to walk away. But usually that's because the AP person sees walking away as a disconnection from feelings and from pain (the flawed logic idea that one leaves because it's the less painful option or the person would stay, so they don't have as strong feelings, which means they are coming out of the breakup hurting less and having some relief instead of feeling miserable... and the AP doesn't want to feel miserable either). There's actually nothing to envy. The thing is, as far as anyone with insecure attachment goes, no one is leaving unscathed and happy. Someone avoidant may not be miserable over the disconnection or breakup, but when things are hot and cold, 180ing around with poor or inconsistent communication involved, they are still dealing with their own trauma and misery even if it's not directly caused by you or whatever their feelings for you are by the end. Their emotional lives are still difficult, it just manifests differently. A good link for all insecures is here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responseIt's the opposite side of the same coin, with everyone trying to work their own issues out through the relationship, when the relationship didn't initially cause the underlying personal issues. Those issues existed long before, and get in the way before you can even get deep enough to honestly gauge compatibility! (Since insecures have a lot of problems with fear, which prevents vulnerability because there's so many defense mechanisms.) So the dynamic pretty much never works out unless both people are already independently on their own journeys to overcome trauma and have already become aware and made some headway prior to getting together. Otherwise, everyone does their best, but what you experienced is a typical result. You'll see post after post on this forum of FA-AP relationships with different details but the same patterns. |
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tyke
New Member
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Post by tyke on Oct 15, 2023 14:29:39 GMT
Just an update on things. I've now met with my ex to talk things over and it was so hard!
We talked about her telling me how she sees me in her future (she said she sees us growing old together) but that right now she can't just restart the relationship, she doesn't have the energy or capacity for that. She told me that her biggest hurdle is the experience with her ex who walked out on her just after their baby was born. It's instilled in her such a fear of abandonment that she shuts down when she feels how close we are. It feels so frustrating to experience this as she added that a problem for her is that I know her too well - and that scares her and makes her pull away. And so she'd rather be alone right now, and that in the last couple of weeks doing so has given her more control of her life back.
We also talked about what to do next. She said she continues to think about returning to therapy, but the demands of her life now make it really difficult for her to find the time to do so. I've accepted I can't 'fix her' and that really until she feels like she can overcome some of her struggles there's no future for us. Which feels devastating.
So I felt I was only left with the option to tell her we'll have to go no contact, because I can't be just friends with her right now. I told her I would be available to her if she ever wants to reach out - be that in days, weeks, months - but that I understand she may never do that. She seemed quite touched by this as she said it removed all the pressure from the situation and that she could process things in her own time without feeling there was a deadline looming over her. I wanted her to understand I wasn't abandoning her and she was really clear that she didn't see it that way - she recognised that it was a self fulfilling prophecy in that she feared losing me, broke up with me, and had therefore lost me, confirming her fears.
So we are now no longer speaking and I have to really work hard over the next few weeks and months to come to terms with this. I obviously hope that she does reach out to me at some point, but I'm conscious that it serves neither of us for me to put my life on hold and wait for something that may never come.
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Post by introvert on Oct 15, 2023 15:27:55 GMT
No contact is a good choice. She's got a lot of awareness about what's going on for her, complete with the awareness that she's not able to prioritize resolving it, rendering herself unavailable. Good for her for communicating clearly, good for you for accepting what she says at face value.
When and if she does feel ready to engage in efforts to heal, it's a long process and there are no guarantees there either.
Ultimately, I think its important to understand that deep connection and intimacy is possible with more than one person, she's not the only candidate (which is great because she's taken herself out of the running.)
She's not The One. The One will be available. Keep working on your own attachment style, grieve the loss of this relationship, and keep living. You will get past it, but it does take time and effort to process it all in a healthy way. There are more experiences and opportunities ahead, even if it's hard to imagine at the time.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 16, 2023 1:16:17 GMT
You have done the right thing for the situation. Saying she sees you as growing old together but not now plus not making time to go to therapy on her own... sadly, this is a cop out. She may not even be aware of that, but she's creating a situation where she can feel safe fantasizing about an ideal version of your relationship at a distance. You're right that you cannot work with that if you want a relationship with someone available. I'm sorry that it hurts now, but you are giving yourself space to eventually heal and get unstuck. That's an enormous gift to yourself!
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 16, 2023 2:03:12 GMT
As a healing FA….I think she has shown you how conflicting it can be….she doesn’t want conflict..ie…she does not want you to be mad at her and she sees enough value in you to want to keep you around, but she doesn’t want to do the things necessary to have a secure relationship. Take as much time as you need to process things…but do not hold onto “hope”….because hope tends to keep someone who is anxiously leaning stuck.
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tyke
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Posts: 8
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Post by tyke on Oct 29, 2023 6:46:32 GMT
It's been 2 weeks of No Contact, which has felt like 2 years. I've spent the time trying to keep as busy as possible but the pervasive thoughts about the relationship are so hard to stop. I went to my first ever therapy session and I've been feeling positive about that. We discussed where I feel I want to get to and my therapist said they'll put a plan together and we'll work on that.
One thing we discussed though really got to me. I basically broke down when I started talking about my ex and how it was her birthday party this week and I couldn't help but think she'd be surrounded by friends and family but feel like I'd abandoned her. I felt so unbelievably sad picturing that. And so I really don't know what to do now as my ex messaged me in the night after the party saying she missed me so much. I'm really trying not to read too much into it, but I'm not sure how to respond - or if I even should?
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KAI
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Post by KAI on Oct 29, 2023 8:41:18 GMT
Other more experienced members might differ from this opinion, but for me, it seems quite harsh and robotic to oppose no contact to someone that you care about and that expresses very clearly that they miss you. Now, it should'nt change that you have to be very careful not to let yourself drag into too much hopes as to where this could lead. I quite agree with what has been said before, or in other posts. And this is where it might be tricky regarding your attachment style. If you think you can provide an answer and express your part without getting too exposed emotionally and get disappointed in the end (which means being very much in the moment and real time i would say. She might say she misses you then stop answering if you answer. This is quite typical FA behaviour i've experienced myself or read about here in the feed). As for me, i've decided to stay true to myself and honest about how i feel about people, and accept the outcome. But APs tend to expect things in return when they give, and that's where it can become hurtful. If you think you can answer and not expect anything in return, and not put too much charge or interpretation into this "i miss you" text or what comes next, then me, i would go for it
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