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Post by hyacinth on Oct 28, 2023 11:51:26 GMT
Apologies in advance for a long post! I am hoping for some advice. My ex (FA) left me (AP) nearly six months ago after a seemingly trivial disagreement, initially he was just taking space to decide if he wanted to be together. He moved back in with his mom in another state. He officially ended it via email a week later. As is the way with FA/ AP breakups it came completely out the blue. I thought we were very happy during our 17 month relationship. Admittedly I’d been experiencing some anxiety/depression towards the end of the relationship, which I think contributed. It was a v. serious relationship – we lived together, spent time with each other’s friends and families and had starting discussing having a family together. The relationship he described in the breakup email didn’t bear any resemblance to the tender and happy relationship I’d known. I didn’t try to talk him round as much as I wanted to because I knew that pleading probably would just drive him further away and tried to be as understanding as I could. He admitted that he struggled expressing boundaries in the relationship, so I decided then and there that if he does verbalise them now we’re not together, I want him to see I will do my best to respect them. I immediately respected his request for space and I didn't phone or message him asking him to come back. We had to have sporadic contact over the summer, focused on practicalities since we’d shared an apartment and stuff needing sorting. We had one call after a couple of months where he admitted some issues, including the fact he struggled with dealing with even minor conflict. It felt like he was more self-aware and open. He said he’d read about attachment theory. At the start of the fall, he moved back to the city we lived in together because he freelances for a design firm here and was just starting on a new project. We met up a few weeks back to exchange remaining possessions, grab a coffee and catch-up. It went much better than I anticipated. The atmosphere felt so natural between us and the way he looked at me made me feel he still had some feelings. I kept the conversation pleasant and fairly light as not to overwhelm him, so no discussing the breakup. He showed some vulnerabilities, including the fact he’s started therapy, which I know isn’t easy for a DA and I thanked him for his openness. The meet-up ended with a lengthy and tender hug. I feel he let his guard down when we met but since then, he’s pulled away again. Foolishly, soon after that initial meetup, I suggested we go to a concert together but I think I moved too fast and he has pulled away again. He said he is only able to see each other as friends every now and then and on much reflection an evening concert didn’t feel right and he needed to take things very slowly. He said he still needs time and space. I’ve tried to reassure him that I want to respect his needs and I’m trying so hard to do so. Maybe I’m deluding myself but I feel when he sees me, those old feelings start to come back on board but then we separate and he builds up those walls around him. I love him deeply and want nothing more than to get back with him. However I have no idea how he really feels and whether he would ever consider getting back together. I know what an FA says, does and feels don't always marry up. I’ve had two serious relationships before him but know this one was something special and I don’t think I’m just saying that because of my AP attachment style. It might be a cliche but he felt like my soulmate. Since he left I’ve been trying to work on myself, going to therapy and focusing on my career, friends and family and my health. I’ve got into mindfulness and yoga. Obviously, these changes will help me whatever happens or doesn't with him in the future. I’ve read a lot about attachment styles – his and mine and feel if I were given another chance with him, I would know his triggers and be better equipped to approach the relationship in a way that worked for us both. For instance, I see now that we were together we were too co-dependent and we would both need to build our lives more outside of the relationship. I also see we could both better handle conflict. I hold on to hope that if I give him time and space and if he can see the positive steps I’ve made towards being more independent, secure and confident, then he might start to question his decision. I am aware he may never return and friends/ family tell me to stop clinging on to false hope but surely no one knows what the future may hold for us? I know if he did return, there’s the risk he’d repeat the same pattern and leave again. He did this with a previous girlfriend and reading forums and watching videos by Thais Gibson and Heide Priebe, I understand this is something FAs can do. I also know how determined he is to work on his attachment issues, which gives me hope a healthy relationship could be possible with him but only if he was willing to pursue one. After all that, I would be grateful for some advice as what to do. I know you can't force someone to be in a relationship when they don't want to. That said, I also know some FA/ AP couples do break up and get back together, so there's obviously a point when an FA dumper starts to question their decision to end it. How best do I approach trying to reconnect with an FA ex in a respectful way that doesn’t overwhelm or make him uncomfortable? Do I just give him space and hope that someday he might reach out whilst trying not to put my life on hold in the meantime? I want another shot with him but I fear if I come out and tell him that right now, he’ll run for the hills and cut off communication. I understand from Thais Gibson that FAs are super guarded in any kind of reconnection and you have to take things slowly and give them time to feel safe with you again. This is my AP side talking but I’m scared that if I just give him loads of space he will move on and maybe meet someone else. It’s so hard not to reach out and tell him I love him but I fear this would just overwhelm him and make him feel that I can’t respect his need for space. I want to be respectful of him in everything I do whilst not sacrificing my own needs. Thanks for your time.  |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 28, 2023 18:52:19 GMT
I'd recommend you search out the older questions from other APs on this topic, of which many have been posted on the FA board over the years. This is a very common situation for AP/FA, and it has played out over and over on this forum in different people's posts in exactly the same pattern each time. There's a breakup, and if there's reconnection, it's at a downgraded level. Either a situationship or friendship that continues the insecure dynamic and never develops back into the fully fledged committed relationship.
I'm not suggesting that to be harsh. I personally have been through this (including breaking up, getting back together, breaking up again) and found what I just said to be the most helpful thing finding this forum ever did for me. Seeing over and over and over how many other people experienced my story was truly eye opening and incredibly helpful in allowing me to finally get realistic about the anxious/avoidant pairing dynamic. My story is in there if you search my early posts, there's a really eye opening but heartbreaking one from an old user kristyrose of the cycle happening over and over and not getting anywhere for years, documented from beginning to end. Because that's what happens as long as both people in the relationship allow it to happen.
If there is any hope of getting back together, he needs to completely and fully come to you. You cannot win him over or win him back. It needs to be entirely driven by him, by his progress after likely a couple years in therapy. He's the one who ended the relationship as it was, he's the one who would need to want to come back and repair it. That includes being able to seek you out, communicate in a very straight forward way what he's learned and why, how he's changed, why he's ready, and exactly what he wants from you, and then several weeks into months of following through with words and actions matching. That is the only way you can have hope for a reconciliation that ends differently than the last time you two dated. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh or invalidate the details of your situation. From experience going through it, and the mistakes I made in letting things slide just for us to have another chance and getting back together, this is what I've learned is the only realistic way. Anything else is not enough, especially that straight forward communication and initiative, because anything else means he has not changed enough to be emotionally available and committed to trying again in a more secure way. Then the heartbreak can be worse the second time around (though it also may lead to finally moving beyond "what if" because you can see it won't change, which is what happened in my case).
There is a common AP tendency to hold on to hope and believe there's a magic formula to change insecure dynamics if you on your side can only figure out the perfect things to say and do, and it's an illusion, a way to try to regain a feeling of control in your life. There's also an idea that you can grow together with your avoidant ex and overcome the insecure attachment style issues and trauma together, but that process is very individual. His therapy is a good first step, but it's a separate journey from yours. Again, none of this is to be harsh. The reason this is an AP thought process (and one I had myself for years also!) is usually because there were inconsistent people not meeting your needs you still needed to stay attached to earlier in life. So, the idea you can hang on and hold on to eternal hope and find the right way to change the situation is a defense mechanism to overlook the painful and unforgivable and stay attached to them. Early in life, when you're a kid, that's out of necessity. As an adult, it's the expression of a fear of abandonment that results in you abandoning your own needs and yourself to try to manage someone else.
This is not the answer you were looking for, but I hope you can consider it. All of this is why it's important to focus on yourself instead of the other person in the situation. Do not walk on eggshells trying to manage the fears of an FA because that is overfunctioning in a dysfunctional way and contributing to a co-dependent dynamic. Which is why, coming from that perspective into a reconciled relationship, things end up staying in the insecure dynamic and repeating. If he does come back to you on his own, the only way for that relationship to be successful is for you both to have confronted individual trauma on both sides beforehand, and then you can come back together as more secure individuals. That's what results in people successfully reconciling and making a go of things with a different dynamic, nothing less.
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Post by introvert on Oct 29, 2023 0:36:25 GMT
It's not your business to figure out if his words and feelings align. A hug can reflect various things... and even if he feels sentimental or has lingering feelings he has made a boundary with you, he only wants contact as friends, and only occasionally. You said a couple times that you are wanting to respect his boundaries, and yet you are here against the advice of people who know you, trying to figure out how to get your way, and how to reconnect with the intention of being more than friends.
He's mentioned he has a hard time making boundaries, and clearly you have a hard time accepting his boundary that he's tried to make with you.
I get that your own insecure attachment style is driving your emotions and thought processes, but it doesn't excuse you from unhealthy behavior. My advice, since you asked, is leave him alone, and address your own insecure attachment style. Respect the fact that he has broken up and declined to engage other than as friends. Handle your triggers with a therapist instead of trying to move the needle toward rekindling your romance.
I understand that it is painful, but when someone breaks up with you, the only respectful thing to do is respect their wishes, and accept their decision, unless and until they clearly and unequivocally express to you that they would like to reconcile and try again.
To push your agenda with him is a clear sign of unhealthy dynamics in yourself. People close to you have warned you about this, and while no one has a crystal ball, its clear you are not truly respecting his wishes at this time and seem to be trying to find a way around them. This could be a reason that the relationship he describes is different than what you experienced, and that's pretty common between anxious and avoidants. It's toxic.
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Post by hyacinth on Oct 29, 2023 9:59:29 GMT
I'd recommend you search out the older questions from other APs on this topic, of which many have been posted on the FA board over the years. This is a very common situation for AP/FA, and it has played out over and over on this forum in different people's posts in exactly the same pattern each time. There's a breakup, and if there's reconnection, it's at a downgraded level. Either a situationship or friendship that continues the insecure dynamic and never develops back into the fully fledged committed relationship. I'm not suggesting that to be harsh. I personally have been through this (including breaking up, getting back together, breaking up again) and found what I just said to be the most helpful thing finding this forum ever did for me. Seeing over and over and over how many other people experienced my story was truly eye opening and incredibly helpful in allowing me to finally get realistic about the anxious/avoidant pairing dynamic. My story is in there if you search my early posts, there's a really eye opening but heartbreaking one from an old user kristyrose of the cycle happening over and over and not getting anywhere for years, documented from beginning to end. Because that's what happens as long as both people in the relationship allow it to happen. If there is any hope of getting back together, he needs to completely and fully come to you. You cannot win him over or win him back. It needs to be entirely driven by him, by his progress after likely a couple years in therapy. He's the one who ended the relationship as it was, he's the one who would need to want to come back and repair it. That includes being able to seek you out, communicate in a very straight forward way what he's learned and why, how he's changed, why he's ready, and exactly what he wants from you, and then several weeks into months of following through with words and actions matching. That is the only way you can have hope for a reconciliation that ends differently than the last time you two dated. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh or invalidate the details of your situation. From experience going through it, and the mistakes I made in letting things slide just for us to have another chance and getting back together, this is what I've learned is the only realistic way. Anything else is not enough, especially that straight forward communication and initiative, because anything else means he has not changed enough to be emotionally available and committed to trying again in a more secure way. Then the heartbreak can be worse the second time around (though it also may lead to finally moving beyond "what if" because you can see it won't change, which is what happened in my case). There is a common AP tendency to hold on to hope and believe there's a magic formula to change insecure dynamics if you on your side can only figure out the perfect things to say and do, and it's an illusion, a way to try to regain a feeling of control in your life. There's also an idea that you can grow together with your avoidant ex and overcome the insecure attachment style issues and trauma together, but that process is very individual. His therapy is a good first step, but it's a separate journey from yours. Again, none of this is to be harsh. The reason this is an AP thought process (and one I had myself for years also!) is usually because there were inconsistent people not meeting your needs you still needed to stay attached to earlier in life. So, the idea you can hang on and hold on to eternal hope and find the right way to change the situation is a defense mechanism to overlook the painful and unforgivable and stay attached to them. Early in life, when you're a kid, that's out of necessity. As an adult, it's the expression of a fear of abandonment that results in you abandoning your own needs and yourself to try to manage someone else. This is not the answer you were looking for, but I hope you can consider it. All of this is why it's important to focus on yourself instead of the other person in the situation. Do not walk on eggshells trying to manage the fears of an FA because that is overfunctioning in a dysfunctional way and contributing to a co-dependent dynamic. Which is why, coming from that perspective into a reconciled relationship, things end up staying in the insecure dynamic and repeating. If he does come back to you on his own, the only way for that relationship to be successful is for you both to have confronted individual trauma on both sides beforehand, and then you can come back together as more secure individuals. That's what results in people successfully reconciling and making a go of things with a different dynamic, nothing less. Thank you for your words of wisdom, Alexandra. I really appreciate such a considered, detailed and honest response. No, you don't sound at all harsh, rather you sound like you're talking from a position of experience and compassion. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 29, 2023 15:20:45 GMT
I'd recommend you search out the older questions from other APs on this topic, of which many have been posted on the FA board over the years. This is a very common situation for AP/FA, and it has played out over and over on this forum in different people's posts in exactly the same pattern each time. There's a breakup, and if there's reconnection, it's at a downgraded level. Either a situationship or friendship that continues the insecure dynamic and never develops back into the fully fledged committed relationship. I'm not suggesting that to be harsh. I personally have been through this (including breaking up, getting back together, breaking up again) and found what I just said to be the most helpful thing finding this forum ever did for me. Seeing over and over and over how many other people experienced my story was truly eye opening and incredibly helpful in allowing me to finally get realistic about the anxious/avoidant pairing dynamic. My story is in there if you search my early posts, there's a really eye opening but heartbreaking one from an old user kristyrose of the cycle happening over and over and not getting anywhere for years, documented from beginning to end. Because that's what happens as long as both people in the relationship allow it to happen. If there is any hope of getting back together, he needs to completely and fully come to you. You cannot win him over or win him back. It needs to be entirely driven by him, by his progress after likely a couple years in therapy. He's the one who ended the relationship as it was, he's the one who would need to want to come back and repair it. That includes being able to seek you out, communicate in a very straight forward way what he's learned and why, how he's changed, why he's ready, and exactly what he wants from you, and then several weeks into months of following through with words and actions matching. That is the only way you can have hope for a reconciliation that ends differently than the last time you two dated. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh or invalidate the details of your situation. From experience going through it, and the mistakes I made in letting things slide just for us to have another chance and getting back together, this is what I've learned is the only realistic way. Anything else is not enough, especially that straight forward communication and initiative, because anything else means he has not changed enough to be emotionally available and committed to trying again in a more secure way. Then the heartbreak can be worse the second time around (though it also may lead to finally moving beyond "what if" because you can see it won't change, which is what happened in my case). There is a common AP tendency to hold on to hope and believe there's a magic formula to change insecure dynamics if you on your side can only figure out the perfect things to say and do, and it's an illusion, a way to try to regain a feeling of control in your life. There's also an idea that you can grow together with your avoidant ex and overcome the insecure attachment style issues and trauma together, but that process is very individual. His therapy is a good first step, but it's a separate journey from yours. Again, none of this is to be harsh. The reason this is an AP thought process (and one I had myself for years also!) is usually because there were inconsistent people not meeting your needs you still needed to stay attached to earlier in life. So, the idea you can hang on and hold on to eternal hope and find the right way to change the situation is a defense mechanism to overlook the painful and unforgivable and stay attached to them. Early in life, when you're a kid, that's out of necessity. As an adult, it's the expression of a fear of abandonment that results in you abandoning your own needs and yourself to try to manage someone else. This is not the answer you were looking for, but I hope you can consider it. All of this is why it's important to focus on yourself instead of the other person in the situation. Do not walk on eggshells trying to manage the fears of an FA because that is overfunctioning in a dysfunctional way and contributing to a co-dependent dynamic. Which is why, coming from that perspective into a reconciled relationship, things end up staying in the insecure dynamic and repeating. If he does come back to you on his own, the only way for that relationship to be successful is for you both to have confronted individual trauma on both sides beforehand, and then you can come back together as more secure individuals. That's what results in people successfully reconciling and making a go of things with a different dynamic, nothing less. Thank you for your words of wisdom, Alexandra. I really appreciate such a considered, detailed and honest response. No, you don't sound at all harsh, rather you sound like you're talking from a position of experience and compassion. I was just going to jump in to add…..this happens between FA attached individuals as well….so it doesn’t only happen with the AP/FA dynamic. You can find my story here as well….I found this site as a result of a breakup and being downgraded to friend status. The guy I dated never cycled back but the longing to understand and the desire to win him back are all too evident in my posts. I agree with Alexandra, focus on your own healing. 🙂🙂. I wish you well. |
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Post by hyacinth on Oct 29, 2023 15:59:57 GMT
Thank you for your words of wisdom, Alexandra. I really appreciate such a considered, detailed and honest response. No, you don't sound at all harsh, rather you sound like you're talking from a position of experience and compassion. I was just going to jump in to add…..this happens between FA attached individuals as well….so it doesn’t only happen with the AP/FA dynamic. You can find my story here as well….I found this site as a result of a breakup and being downgraded to friend status. The guy I dated never cycled back but the longing to understand and the desire to win him back are all too evident in my posts. I agree with Alexandra, focus on your own healing. 🙂🙂. I wish you well. Thank you for kind words, tnr9. It's really good to hear from people who can empathise with what I'm going through. 🙂 |
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Post by introvert on Oct 30, 2023 15:38:35 GMT
I think it's not only important to seek empathy for yourself here. I empathize with someone you are describing as FA or DA, who has broken up and set a boundary with you and is in therapy to try to heal his own issues. Digging up issues in therapy is an intense process and he has asked for time and space. He is showing discomfort with having contact, and has made no indication he wants the same thing you do.
I think its unfair and disrespectful to him to do what you're doing even if it's driven by your overwhelming emotions. He's trying to do work in therapy, and you're trying to work behind the scenes here and manipulate this so you get another chance without scaring him off. It looks like you don't trust him to make the right decision for himself and that you would like to make it for him, because you think he's your soul mate. It's disrespectful to him and his process, even if unintentionally so.
Security shows true empathy for both parties, isn't driven by need for oneself, and can recognize boundaries and not try to work around them "for their own good, because I love them so much!"
AP attachers rarely see their own behavior as toxic to the other person, just as avoidants rarely see their own behavior as toxic to the other person. It's about how much they are hurting, themselves. How hard it is for them. Just because it feels like love, doesn't mean you're being loving. Insecure attachment is selfish because it comes from survival needs... it gets romanticized but it's anything but romantic.
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Post by introvert on Oct 30, 2023 15:47:42 GMT
Also... you knowing his triggers and avoiding them for him is NOT healing for him! Addressing his triggers in therapy and resolving the deep wounds that pre-date your existence in his life is what he needs to do and he's in therapy. He doesn't need you sending emotional bids his way, he's broken up asked for space and declined your invitation for a reason. He articulated himself very well for someone who is practicing boundaries.
If he invites you in again then that's something else. But if he hasn't you are crossing lines in my opinion. Avoidants have stronger boundaries than anxious, true, and will likely feel encroached on rather than flattered. It wouldn't be surprising if a topic in therapy is "My ex invited me to a concert, how do I communicate my boundary?" And that your ongoing contact could be therapy material for him. That's how therapy works, especially if it's attachment therapy. So you may be helping him evolve just not how you'd think. You could be his exercise in boundaries. That's been the case for me with an ex who wanted to continually reconnect.
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Post by hyacinth on Oct 30, 2023 17:01:50 GMT
I think it's not only important to seek empathy for yourself here. I empathize with someone you are describing as FA or DA, who has broken up and set a boundary with you and is in therapy to try to heal his own issues. Digging up issues in therapy is an intense process and he has asked for time and space. He is showing discomfort with having contact, and has made no indication he wants the same thing you do. I think its unfair and disrespectful to him to do what you're doing even if it's driven by your overwhelming emotions. He's trying to do work in therapy, and you're trying to work behind the scenes here and manipulate this so you get another chance without scaring him off. It looks like you don't trust him to make the right decision for himself and that you would like to make it for him, because you think he's your soul mate. It's disrespectful to him and his process, even if unintentionally so. Security shows true empathy for both parties, isn't driven by need for oneself, and can recognize boundaries and not try to work around them "for their own good, because I love them so much!" AP attachers rarely see their own behavior as toxic to the other person, just as avoidants rarely see their own behavior as toxic to the other person. It's about how much they are hurting, themselves. How hard it is for them. Just because it feels like love, doesn't mean you're being loving. Insecure attachment is selfish because it comes from survival needs... it gets romanticized but it's anything but romantic. I have respected his request for space throughout the 6 months since he left. I did not want the breakup but I haven't tried to persuade him to change his mind.I haven’t called, texted or emailed him other than about practical arrangements with the apartment and yeah that one email about the concert. I have not got any closure but have accepted that he doesn’t feel talking about his feelings so haven’t pushed for it. To me that is giving him space and respecting his boundaries. Yeah I suggested meeting a 2nd time for the concert but only because he'd said about meeting up again when we saw each other. I accepted it when he said no. The way I see it I haven't employed any manipulative strategies to win him back. I don't think it's manipulative/ toxic/ disrespectful to consider how I act around him in any future encounters so as to not to overwhelm him and not to burn any bridges. I do this because I love him and yeah still have some hope that one day maybe he might give it another shot. You might see that as me working 'behind the scenes here and manipulate this so you get another chance without scaring him off' but I don’t see it like that. Like so many APs I have a tendency to be overly self-critical. One thing I am proud of is the respect I feel I’ve shown him and his boundaries since he left. Obviously you're entitled to see my behavior differently. I did not respond to your previous comment because if I'm truthful I found it an unfair mischaracterization of me and the situation I described. I really don’t want things to escalate any further as can easily happen on forums so I wish you a good day and would be grateful if we could please leave it at that. Thx. |
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Post by introvert on Oct 30, 2023 17:26:08 GMT
Of course it's fine to have different perspectives, and I don't mind leaving it at that.
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Post by hyacinth on Oct 30, 2023 17:29:16 GMT
Of course it's fine to have different perspectives, and I don't mind leaving it at that. Thanks. |
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