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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 5:32:55 GMT
Hi dancerinthedark, welcome to the forum. I cannot say if you are avoidant or not. Typically DAs are not a likely couple and is very hard to get that "off the ground" as there is no real pursuer in a DA/DA matching, however I am sure there are exceptions or people that are a mix of styles. The literature says that DAs typically do not look for/consciously want relationships.
Your story resonates with me as I spent my 20s unaware that I had been abused as a child or I should say, I avoided the realization. I thought my parents really cared about me. After years of therapy, I realized my parents didn't care, I was narc fuel. I was both neglected and abused and a DA was born. Your case may be very different from mine as everyone has a different story.
In my life, I have mostly attracted anxious partners as my fear of relationships requires a heavy pursuer. In your post, it seems you connect quite easily with certain people, so I am not sure DA would fit. I am sure others will post and maybe provide some insight.
I hope you keep posting and maybe through that, you can learn more about yourself, what your needs and wants are and grow. You are quite young, so it's great that you are looking into this now to find some answers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 6:33:31 GMT
Hi Dancer!
I can identify very strongly with you. I don’t think my parents are narc, just in their own ways as well as being insecure, with me and with each other.
I’ve dated a lot since young, and there were only 2 men I wanted to marry. Both I deeply connected with in very different ways. No guessing how both are similar! They’re both highly educated with professional degrees, intelligent to a fault, and emotionally unavailable. Both are also Long distance relationships, communicating is like pulling teeth, and I spent most of the time feeling unloved even if I think I am.
With both, my AP tendencies are triggered and then I turn avoidant with them (probably just protest behaviours), because I need to withdraw to protect myself from
Further hurt. But even this hurts, though perhaps less as I can cognitively justify that I don’t care either.
I can be avoidant, especially with people who are needy of me and can’t seem to get a grip. When I was younger I think I had much higher avoidant tendencies, but I tried hard to make time and effort and being available to people (cos my mum kept saying I’m such a sour face and unsociable person). Now I think I got flipped.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 10, 2018 9:57:28 GMT
So, two questions - am I avoidant? Which it's not really feasible for anyone here to answer since what we read here is written through the lens of your experience - have you done the questionaire that is linked to Jeb's home page? It was an interesting insight for me and well worth spending ten minutes or so.
Only connecting with people who are avoidant is interesting. I am pretty classic FA in relationships and would say that anyone remotely on the anxious scale is a no no for me relationship wise since I feel very easily smothered and it takes me a very very long time to feel connected. I think for me - and perhaps this will resonate with you, other avoidant people feel safe and pleasant because there is very little pressure - something that I am acutely sensitive to. My most successful - in terms of emotional closeness, relationship was with a fellow FA/DA because our way of being resonated with each other if that makes sense, making it a calm quiet space. Of course this came with other issues and I suppose the ideal for me would be a very self sufficient secure partner or a very self aware avoidant who was able to sit with his tendency to avoid rather than act on is to the detriment of the relationship.
I am sure we can change our relating styles dependent on situation - and those more avoidant than me will tend to bring out the anxious in close relationships. There's all sorts of discussion about whether this feels comfortable and equates with love as it mimics the dynamics in our family of origin. I am sure there is truth in this although nobody had the perfect childhood and it is very easy to over think this stuff. Your suggestion that at some point it ceases to be valuable to dissect a dysfunctional relationship is very wise - maybe instead spending time on yourself and exploring your ability to be present, developing trust in yourself etc would be a better way forward.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 17:14:37 GMT
hi dancer, in romantic relationships i am DA, on the border with secure after a lot of work. i think the test on Jeb’s site is helpful. there are also others on the web, even tho the framing of questions is different i land in the same spot on all of them. i think that there are a LOT of factors that affect how we relate (or not) in relationships. attachment style is important but not the only condition to consider. also, what is a “relationship ?” it’s different for everyone. if i am very honest. i have to say that in the past any pursuit of a “relationship” in the romantic sense was not at all about emotional intimacy, but rather about companionship (in a limited degree) , sex, and practical issues. i didn’t feel the need for emotional intimacy because i am internally resourceful and didn’t have a desire to do what felt like enmeshment to me. that was how i ended up in “relationships” which could really only be described as pure hell in retrospect. now that i am more secure, i have a greater capacity for emotional connection with a partner and desire it. but i am only attracted to DA. or i could see secure with DA traits. my need for independence and separateness is far more than a lot of people. i didn’t realize that until later in life. best of luck as you discover more about yourself  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 17:59:29 GMT
also, what is a “relationship ?” it’s different for everyone. if i am very honest. i have to say that in the past any pursuit of a “relationship” in the romantic sense was not at all about emotional intimacy, but rather about companionship (in a limited degree) , sex, and practical issues. i didn’t feel the need for emotional intimacy because i am internally resourceful and didn’t have a desire to do what felt like enmeshment to me. that was how i ended up in “relationships” which could really only be described as pure hell in retrospect. Thank you for opening up tgat. This was something I wanted to know in general... if a relationship can exist without emotional intimacy. Now, from your current viewpoint, you describe it as hell, but back then you probably felt it was normal, and that was what love felt like. My reasoning being... so many people out there who are in those sort of relationships... and makes me wonder, cant they see that they are missing out? Obviously not. Or yes, but they dont know what the issue is and how to tackle it. It is fantastic that you have this awareness after your journey and enjoy the emotional intimacy now. Maybe I am naive, but I think every relationship has a degree of emotional intimacy, just some have very little. I definitely think people can be happy with limited intimacy, because they don't know it's limited and the relationship fills other needs. Some people don't need as much as others. The degrees are different for everyone and I think some people confuse intimacy with enmeshment and codependency as well. My goal is to have more emotional intimacy than I have had in the past, but probably not the degree that would be comfortable for other people. I would be happy with limited emotional intimacy and I wouldn't feel like I am missing out. It's just how I'm made. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 18:12:49 GMT
Thank you for opening up tgat. This was something I wanted to know in general... if a relationship can exist without emotional intimacy. Now, from your current viewpoint, you describe it as hell, but back then you probably felt it was normal, and that was what love felt like. My reasoning being... so many people out there who are in those sort of relationships... and makes me wonder, cant they see that they are missing out? Obviously not. Or yes, but they dont know what the issue is and how to tackle it. It is fantastic that you have this awareness after your journey and enjoy the emotional intimacy now. Maybe I am naive, but I think every relationship has a degree of emotional intimacy, just some have very little. I definitely think people can be happy with limited intimacy, because they don't know it's limited and the relationship fills other needs. Some people don't need as much as others. The degrees are different for everyone and I think some people confuse intimacy with enmeshment and codependency as well. My goal is to have more emotional intimacy than I have had in the past, but probably not the degree that would be comfortable for other people. I would be happy with limited emotional intimacy and I wouldn't feel like I am missing out. It's just how I'm made. i agree on all these points, except the perspective of my previous relationships being hell. i went i. for companionship and sex and practical reasons and i am fine with that. i didn’t need more. i didn’t have awareness about avoidance. my trauma history is so complex i wasn’t worried about signs of potential violence. those had all been normalized to me. i have only known severe abuse in relationships for the last two decade. the last time i was strangled was 5 years ago. before anyone freaks about the fact that i have children, they never saw any of it because it occurred while they were at their dads on the weekend. they were oblivious to the violence although witnessed my anxious/BPD’s rages and we were all imprisoned by them. we have had a lot of healing and inner work and are in a great place. i did a lot of work and have been sober through all of it (recovered in AA starting 24 years ago). i worked on a lot of layers but didn’t have the PTSD figured out so was paralyzed. once i got that fixed inside myself first with medicine and then with rigorous internal work and reconditioning triggers, i made a quantum leap forward. i have no fear of violence, none at all. but i have deep avoidant triggers- enmeshment. it’s hard to start a “relationship” but i have learned what i am looking for and what i am not and am getting better at picking appropriate partners. i am not emotionally dependent one iota but enjoy connection. it’s such a process but i am pleased with where i am at! |
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Post by goldilocks on Feb 11, 2018 18:20:23 GMT
I tend to do best with a secure guy, but do think I need to show interest more strongly to consistently attract them.
At this point, I'm actively looking to date either a busy or introverted secure guy.
With a DA, we would have to have a shared project or something to actually get the ball rolling because no one would really pursue. Or maybe if he is very healthy, he would.
I'm not interested in anxious guys at all as we would never be happy together. Nevertheless, they used to chase me like crazy. Nowadays it is much milder.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 18:32:12 GMT
I tend to do best with a secure guy, but do think I need to show interest more strongly to consistently attract them. At this point, I'm actively looking to date either a busy or introverted secure guy. With a DA, we would have to have a shared project or something to actually get the ball rolling because no one would really pursue. Or maybe if he is very healthy, he would. I'm not interested in anxious guys at all as we would never be happy together. Nevertheless, they used to chase me like crazy. Nowadays it is much milder. agreed, the only reason my ex da and i ended up in a relationship was we had consistent contact through a shared public activity for an extended time and were sexually attracted to each other so we made it happen. we built the relationship around those things- shared interests and great sex and an emotional bond grew and was very enjoyable. his distancing was to pick fights. space and separateness i can do but fighting turns me off and i just won’t do it, it seems childish to pick fights instead of communicate. as much as i love and understand him as an avoidant myself i just don’t like that so i left. |
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Post by goldilocks on Feb 11, 2018 18:59:48 GMT
That's completely understandable, though it sounds like the relationship has contributed to growth for both of you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 19:07:24 GMT
That's completely understandable, though it sounds like the relationship has contributed to growth for both of you. it really did. i had to grieve it deeply. the relationship helped me define what is more important to me, what is not, what i can do, and what i can’t. just helps me refine myself. and appreciate my avoidant traits that don’t squelch intimacy but that allow me to be me as i wish. i really do value some of them. |
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 12, 2018 7:57:54 GMT
I tend to do best with a secure guy, but do think I need to show interest more strongly to consistently attract them. At this point, I'm actively looking to date either a busy or introverted secure guy. With a DA, we would have to have a shared project or something to actually get the ball rolling because no one would really pursue. Or maybe if he is very healthy, he would. I'm not interested in anxious guys at all as we would never be happy together. Nevertheless, they used to chase me like crazy. Nowadays it is much milder. I'm curious where you think an introvert would differ from an extravert, in this context. Could you elaborate? |
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Post by goldilocks on Feb 12, 2018 11:06:45 GMT
I tend to do best with a secure guy, but do think I need to show interest more strongly to consistently attract them. At this point, I'm actively looking to date either a busy or introverted secure guy. With a DA, we would have to have a shared project or something to actually get the ball rolling because no one would really pursue. Or maybe if he is very healthy, he would. I'm not interested in anxious guys at all as we would never be happy together. Nevertheless, they used to chase me like crazy. Nowadays it is much milder. I'm curious where you think an introvert would differ from an extravert, in this context. Could you elaborate? If a guy is either busy or introverted, he will have a natural tendency to spend time alone or at his own activities. The time I most want to cuddle a guy is when he has been away for a few hours enjoying himself. Introverts generally have a need to be alone, and are understanding of that in others. But really, I'd also be happy with an understanding extraverted guy who had a busy job and a few good guy friends he enjoyed spending time with. I am able and willing to negotiate alone time. Friends of mine each have a "home alone day" every week and I have seen that working for them. I do think it would help to have regular, but spontaneous alone time as part of our natural patterns helps me remain attracted over time. This is the case for most people; watch Esther Perel's TED talk to learn more. |
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