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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 0:59:32 GMT
Hi all, wanna reach out and ask everyone what their experiences are with DAs taking responsibility for hurting their partners? I was greatly hurt by my DA; we’ve since “made up” and so I’ve tried to reach out to him over the past two months multiple times to mend the rift and sense make the episode, I guess in an attempt to rebuild my trust in him/us via having my feelings acknowledged and building a clear narrative around what happened that involves both our inputs. He started off dismissing then minimising which triggered even more anxiety and anger in me. When pushed, he would grudgingly (I feel) apologize just to get it over with and then come back to finding a solution.
It came to a head a couple of nights ago where I sort of imploded and we had another “talk”, where it was about how I hold resentment and not talk to him about it. My point was talking to him was unsafe for me because he would dismiss it.
Again, it was all about how he didn’t intend to do that and it became a discussion of what I can do (as opposed to what he could do). And, it was never fully acknowledged his role and behaviours. While I acknowledge that there are parts I could have done better, it was all rather frustrating for me to feel like he was blameless and he came in to save the day with his logical solutions of “just tell me” (which I already know but it doesn’t work if you don’t have the psychological safety!). So now I feel patronised and dissatisfied and frankly, quite put out by it all.
So then it becomes - are APs not letting go or require much more elaborate apologies and acknowledgements vs DAs don’t take responsibilities?
Anyone?
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 19, 2018 2:15:38 GMT
Hi all, wanna reach out and ask everyone what their experiences are with DAs taking responsibility for hurting their partners? I was greatly hurt by my DA; we’ve since “made up” and so I’ve tried to reach out to him over the past two months multiple times to mend the rift and sense make the episode, I guess in an attempt to rebuild my trust in him/us via having my feelings acknowledged and building a clear narrative around what happened that involves both our inputs. He started off dismissing then minimising which triggered even more anxiety and anger in me. When pushed, he would grudgingly (I feel) apologize just to get it over with and then come back to finding a solution. It came to a head a couple of nights ago where I sort of imploded and we had another “talk”, where it was about how I hold resentment and not talk to him about it. My point was talking to him was unsafe for me because he would dismiss it. Again, it was all about how he didn’t intend to do that and it became a discussion of what I can do (as opposed to what he could do). And, it was never fully acknowledged his role and behaviours. While I acknowledge that there are parts I could have done better, it was all rather frustrating for me to feel like he was blameless and he came in to save the day with his logical solutions of “just tell me” (which I already know but it doesn’t work if you don’t have the psychological safety!). So now I feel patronised and dissatisfied and frankly, quite put out by it all. So then it becomes - are APs not letting go or require much more elaborate apologies and acknowledgements vs DAs don’t take responsibilities? Anyone? You're getting into a factual discussion while the underlying attachment issues are not addressed. If your question is whether that is avoidant behaviour, my answer would be yes. It also does nothing to take away your frustration as your attachment system will never be soothed by this and it even has you questioning whether or not having your attachment needs met is valid. Spinning it so that it's your problem is a deactivation strategy and tends to lead to you not bringing up the issue again if repeated enough. Does this lie with the AP or the DA, you ask. It lies in the interaction. You're both stuck in these roles and I think the one with the most ability to see and act on this is you. This is a clear anxious-avoidant pattern and will most likely make the AP even more anxious if it continues, in my humble opinion (and personal experience). |
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Post by cardinal on Feb 19, 2018 2:18:20 GMT
In my opinion, both. The unaware DA will likely just blame their partner for their shortcomings (having unrealistic expectations, "if they were the one, we wouldn't be having problems"), etc. and the AP becomes fixated on finding answers and to understand the DA's behavior the best they can for 'closure', but all it does is reinforce the AP's fixation on the DA.
From what little I can tell about your situation, the best you can do is be honest about your needs and how you feel about how he talks about his role in arguments while trying your best not to sound like you're blaming him or pressuring him. But it'll be an uphill battle really.
My personal experience with an FA who strongly leaned DA is that he was vaguely aware of his own part in his failed relationships, but chose to focus and exaggerate his ex-partners' parts in the relationships. He rarely or never spoke about his role in his relationships. He knew he had his flaws, just never liked to admit to it or preferred focusing on others' flaws instead. He avoided apologizing directly for a lot of things that happened between us, but I could tell that he knew that he was at wrong and he'd often show it in some indirect way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:27:00 GMT
Yes, I do see it but I’m not sure how to go about becoming secure if I don’t recognise that my AP needs are sometimes unreasonable. Breaking up is of course an option, but if I don’t recognise my own issues, I’ll just repeat it with someone else. And that’s what I’m trying to avoid by making sense of my own thought processes. For example, I catch myself thinking that I’m unlovable and just a burden to everyone I care about and how things are better if I just went away. The only way to stop these thoughts, it seems, is just simply don’t get attached to people in general. Secure attachments ideally are the way to go, but clearly, I’m not getting there with the way I think/feel.
If you’re telling me breaking up is the only way to go because this is a anxious-avoidant dynamic, I don’t disagree with that. Since you brought up the part about attachment system not being soothed, then I think my question is how do I get to a secure attachment style and leave behind the AP one?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:28:35 GMT
it’s such a dysfunctional dynamic between an AP and DA, i don’t know who can take responsibility for it unless both agree to say goodbye and work on their own issues lol. You might be reading hurt where none is intended, i don’t know. As far as DA’s taking responsibility for how they hurt their partner- 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 an anxiously attached person tends to see hirt where there isn’t any intention and need recognition for behaviors they see through their own lens that someone else might not see. as an avoidant, i found the AP/DA dynamic crazy making, as i was continuously accused of vile behavior and intentions that were wayyyyyyy off base from my perspective. maybe take a look at what Jeb has to say about AP reading into things? i only offer this to empower you because you will get nowhere with a DA and you seem to already be pretty well aware of that. The link to the AP article : jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/ |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:30:07 GMT
In my opinion, both. The unaware DA will likely just blame their partner for their shortcomings (having unrealistic expectations, "if they were the one, we wouldn't be having problems"), etc. and the AP becomes fixated on finding answers and to understand the DA's behavior the best they can for 'closure', but all it does is reinforce the AP's fixation on the DA. From what little I can tell about your situation, the best you can do is be honest about your needs and how you feel about how he talks about his role in arguments while trying your best not to sound like you're blaming him or pressuring him. But it'll be an uphill battle really. My personal experience with an FA who strongly leaned DA is that he was vaguely aware of his own part in his failed relationships, but chose to focus and exaggerate his ex-partners' parts in the relationships. He rarely or never spoke about his role in his relationships. He knew he had his flaws, just never liked to admit to it or preferred focusing on others' flaws instead. He avoided apologizing directly for a lot of things that happened between us, but I could tell that he knew that he was at wrong and he'd often show it in some indirect way. I’m there with you on this. I’ve been honest and also sometimes call him out gently on his BS. I know he knows he was at wrong and show it in some other way, albeit clumsily. I have very high standards for being apologized to, I think in part to protect myself and in part because of my work (understanding violations and well being). When I speak to my more secure friends, they tend to go toward - he’s said it and acts it, don’t push for the perfect response. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:30:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:35:53 GMT
it’s such a dysfunctional dynamic between an AP and DA, i don’t know who can take responsibility for it unless both agree to say goodbye and work on their own issues lol. You might be reading hurt where none is intended, i don’t know. As far as DA’s taking responsibility for how they hurt their partner- 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 an anxiously attached person tends to see hirt where there isn’t any intention and need recognition for behaviors they see through their own lens that someone else might not see. as an avoidant, i found the AP/DA dynamic crazy making, as i was continuously accused of vile behavior and intentions that were wayyyyyyy off base from my perspective. maybe take a look at what Jeb has to say about AP reading into things? i only offer this to empower you because you will get nowhere with a DA and you seem to already be pretty well aware of that. The link to the AP article : jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/Yes! What I’m grappling with is am I just reading all the hurt when there isn’t any/any intended, and if I’m just holding onto it to create drama and hold him further at a distance (intimacy but not really). I don’t think I was accusatory (I didn’t say things like he doesn’t love me, he’s a terrible person, and he is cheating though I did have those thoughts). I tried to communicate clearly and focusing on how I feel, but it’s also new to me so I’m not even sure if I’m doing it well. He says he’s trying to do the same but it is also new to him and I have to help him because he’s a simple person who doesn’t think a lot. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:42:20 GMT
it’s such a dysfunctional dynamic between an AP and DA, i don’t know who can take responsibility for it unless both agree to say goodbye and work on their own issues lol. You might be reading hurt where none is intended, i don’t know. As far as DA’s taking responsibility for how they hurt their partner- 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 an anxiously attached person tends to see hirt where there isn’t any intention and need recognition for behaviors they see through their own lens that someone else might not see. as an avoidant, i found the AP/DA dynamic crazy making, as i was continuously accused of vile behavior and intentions that were wayyyyyyy off base from my perspective. maybe take a look at what Jeb has to say about AP reading into things? i only offer this to empower you because you will get nowhere with a DA and you seem to already be pretty well aware of that. The link to the AP article : jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/Yes! What I’m grappling with is am I just reading all the hurt when there isn’t any/any intended, and if I’m just holding onto it to create drama and hold him further at a distance (intimacy but not really). I don’t think I was accusatory (I didn’t say things like he doesn’t love me, he’s a terrible person, and he is cheating though I did have those thoughts). I tried to communicate clearly and focusing on how I feel, but it’s also new to me so I’m not even sure if I’m doing it well. He says he’s trying to do the same but it is also new to him and I have to help him because he’s a simple person who doesn’t think a lot. i strongly recommend the article. it’s not about communication, and how that is done. if you’re insecurely attaches it’s about so much more than that, about needing a partner to validate that you are lovable and worthy, it’s deep stuff that you need to know about in yourself. AP/DA pairing is the most toxic of all. if both partners were working very hard to secure it might get better. lordy, please don’t ask how to get him to work on his issues lol. just read the article, he isn’t here looking for advice so best to just take care of you. it’s the best way to find happiness. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:49:08 GMT
Yes! What I’m grappling with is am I just reading all the hurt when there isn’t any/any intended, and if I’m just holding onto it to create drama and hold him further at a distance (intimacy but not really). I don’t think I was accusatory (I didn’t say things like he doesn’t love me, he’s a terrible person, and he is cheating though I did have those thoughts). I tried to communicate clearly and focusing on how I feel, but it’s also new to me so I’m not even sure if I’m doing it well. He says he’s trying to do the same but it is also new to him and I have to help him because he’s a simple person who doesn’t think a lot. i strongly recommend the article. it’s not about communication, and how that is done. if you’re insecurely attaches it’s about so much more than that, about needing a partner to validate that you are lovable and worthy, it’s deep stuff that you need to know about in yourself. AP/DA pairing is the most toxic of all. if both partners were working very hard to secure it might get better. lordy, please don’t ask how to get him to work on his issues lol. just read the article, he isn’t here looking for advice so best to just take care of you. it’s the best way to find happiness. Lol, not asking him to - he’s old and rich enough to seek therapy if he wanted to. I’m asking for myself! I don’t want to dismiss my own feelings just because I’m an AP, but I do also want to have a clear sense of when I’m going cray cray. I’m quite self aware though sometimes I get confused when working through them. I’m also very highly cognitive so I work through my thoughts - also apparently something the insecures do. My thoughts give me a framework to process things, so I like to work on things factually like what Jageur pointed out! I am also working on self love and esteem issues, but that was not the focal point of my question. Read the article - yea I identify with everything in there. It’s also one of the first articles I’ve read that made me went “oh, I’m AP for sure”. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:55:11 GMT
i am so glad the article shed some light!!
maybe the book will be a great tool too.
haha i am glad you aren’t asking for him because it’s just an exercise in futility lol
But gaining security inside yourself will empower you so much!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:55:26 GMT
Oh, I had a thought. Perhaps a corollary question is - am I so AP (and I’m not even aware of it) that I’m seeing a secure as an avoidant? Gosh. I need to get myself to therapy ASAP.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:57:02 GMT
i am so glad the article shed some light!! maybe the book will be a great tool too. haha i am glad you aren’t asking for him because it’s just an exercise in futility lol But gaining security inside yourself will empower you so much! Hahaha, I can only work on myself, no time to be everyone’s emotional nanny. I do feel like I’m doing two people’s emotion work though because sometimes I have to be considerate to what he’s dealing with as well. Just because he isn’t a perfect responder doesn’t mean he isn’t trying and hurting as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 2:57:29 GMT
Oh, I had a thought. Perhaps a corollary question is - am I so AP (and I’m not even aware of it) that I’m seeing a secure as an avoidant? Gosh. I need to get myself to therapy ASAP. haha it gets confusing, on the avoidant side too! therapy has helped me. get a therapist who knows about attachment theory! 😬🤗 |
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 19, 2018 3:02:04 GMT
Yes, I do see it but I’m not sure how to go about becoming secure if I don’t recognise that my AP needs are sometimes unreasonable. Breaking up is of course an option, but if I don’t recognise my own issues, I’ll just repeat it with someone else. And that’s what I’m trying to avoid by making sense of my own thought processes. For example, I catch myself thinking that I’m unlovable and just a burden to everyone I care about and how things are better if I just went away. The only way to stop these thoughts, it seems, is just simply don’t get attached to people in general. Secure attachments ideally are the way to go, but clearly, I’m not getting there with the way I think/feel. If you’re telling me breaking up is the only way to go because this is a anxious-avoidant dynamic, I don’t disagree with that. Since you brought up the part about attachment system not being soothed, then I think my question is how do I get to a secure attachment style and leave behind the AP one? I would never presume to tell you what to do. I do, however, think solving an issue is a lot more difficult while you're currently very deep inside it, still, as that prevents you from seeing the bigger picture. Your attachment system going into overdrive like this is because you sense that your partner isn't there in the way that you need him to be. I am inclined to think that this is correct. I also think that you misunderstand the nature of AP attachment. You say that to move from AP to Secure, you need to recognize that your needs are unreasonable. Read that back for me, please. And once more for good measure. Your needs are your needs. Calling them unreasonable won't change that. The nature of being AP, and how it can create a problem in relationships is low self-esteem and the penchant to being hyperalert on any sign of danger to a relationship and resulting anxiety about potential loss of the relationship. In a way, you're too focused on the need and signals of your partner and not enough on your own. The hyperalertness makes you notice every minute difference in how they act and the anxiety makes you label all those changes as a threat to the relationship so you look for validation that the relationship is safe. You're not getting it because your search for validation (activating your attachment system) leads to distancing behaviour in your partner (deactivating his attachment system). You keep triggering each other. This starts a downward spiral unless one of you can stop it. The low self esteem makes it extra hard for an AP to do this, as they don't want to abandon a partner and worry they will never find anyone better or that they might magically turn into the perfect partner after breaking up with them. I think there's another option. Someone who hears these doubts you have, the fear of being unlovable and unloved, of having a relationship crumble to dust if you do the slughtest thing 'wrong', and sitting down with you, giving you a big hug and telling you: "You're worried. Know that I'm here for you. We may disagree at times, but I love you and I won't leave just because you feel that you said or did something wrong. Whatever problems we run into, we'll fix them together and I'm willing to put in just as much effort to get there as you are. Thank you for sharing this with me and let's talk about how to handle this together." |
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