|
Post by ladyofthewood on Jun 3, 2018 19:51:33 GMT
So my recent ex is an Avoidant and I'm going to ramble a bit about him first. When I finally read about attachment types in this past week it was all super eye opening for me, and helped me understand our relationship so much more. We initially bonded quickly and thought we wanted the same things out of life, which turned out to be very false. I want love and a deep connection. I'm still a little confused about what it is avoidants want, someone they can keep at a distance but also feel like they aren't alone? He said I'm the girlfriend that he has opened up to the most and felt most comfortable being himself around. He wasn't used to actually being able to talk about his interests. I asked him if that isn't what he wants for his future relationship (not with me), to open up more and truly be himself, and he said not really. He doesn't want deep emotional connection or to discuss feelings. He doesn't cry, always had a hard time when I was crying, and it definitely didn't help that I was crying because he was keeping me so far from him. He said whenever I cried it reminded him of his Mom crying when he was younger. His dad was abusive and his mom was always sad so he didn't get love and care growing up. He said that growing up the only way he ever knew how to make people laugh was by annoying them, so thats what he still does now. Whenever I would try to say that the way he would say things to me was hurtful he would say "this is the way I am." But whenever I was sad and not communicative he was really good about checking in with my feelings, he seemed eager to want to work on things, though nothing really changed after all. Our fights tended to be productive in the same way, he was good at listening to my emotions, with some coaxing he would talk a little about his, we both wanted things to work. But then every time I felt things were going really well and I was feeling secure he would pull away again. It was also hard to get him to experience things with me. He would love to talk about his own interests and was excited to have to watch shows and movies he liked and wanted to see. But if it was something I was interested in he wouldn't really care. If he did tag along to something for my sake he would make sure I knew he didn't want to be there and was only there for me. I could hardly get him to go out with me, I felt like there were always excuses. I couldn't get him to go out on Friday nights past 10pm, but as soon as we broke up he got back in touch with a friend and was staying out until 7am. He didn't understand how that was hurtful to me. He started talking to girls right away after we broke up, he is texting all the time, when we dating he told me he hated texting. I asked about all the girls he is talking to, and he says it's nothing, he's just trying to see what is out there and he doesn't feel connected to them. Which obviously I believe, it's still frustrating for me to see. (I still live with him and prefer honestly because I know when he isn't telling me things, I will move out soon and then can go NC.) He can be sentimental, he held on to a nice letter that I wrote him. He has some things from his grandma who died that are very important to him.
I thought it was relevant to talk about him first because based off of what I've experienced with him I believe he is just extremely hurt from his childhood trauma, and I wonder if he could heal and find love. (Not with me, I'm still working on getting over everything, but ultimately I know we aren't right for each other.)
Basically I'm wondering if most FAs and DAs need healing and *could* become secure attachers. Or is there a thin line between avoidants and sociopaths, and for some avoidants this really is just the way their brains work? What kind of a healthy relationship could avoidants even have? And with what kind of person? I like to think of myself as secure but man was I anxious during this relationship. So it seems obvious to me that neither Secure nor Anxious would work. I can't imagine him being ok with another avoidant either because he does like attention but only on his terms. Unless he found someone with very similar terms and they were willing to work together.
I'm such a deeply feeling person that it is hard for me to wrap my head around someone who doesn't have deep emotions or want meaningful connection. In the case of my ex I feel like he put a wall around his emotions because that was the only way he knew how to continue functioning. I do see some desire for connection in him, and he has this attitude of being unapologetically him, yet he doesn't feel he can be his true self around anyone because he doesn't trust anyone.
And I realize this all reeks of me wanting to "fix" him, I'm aware that I need to wash my hands clean and let him help himself. But I guess that is more my question, does he, and do avoidants in general, need to help themselves? Or can they be happy and healthy the way they're living now?
This was a little extra rambling than I intended, so if you read this thank you! I appreciate any insight
|
|
|
Post by leavethelighton on Jun 4, 2018 0:40:23 GMT
People are on a spectrum so you can't only generalize about various attachment styles. Some people can grow more secure over time through their own psychological work, or therapy, in combination with a sufficiently healthy relationship. Others probably can't. Some people can be happy staying single, some will always want relationships. But yes, I do think people can change over time. One might always have to resist certain tendencies to keep a relationship healthy, but that could get easier over time. For example, if a person is dismissive of another's feelings, they can learn to be less dismissive. THey may always have an initial tendency to be dismissive that they have to get past but that they can learn to get past until it feels more natural, or it may fade in time and be replaced by a new reaction or pattern. In terms of your husband, who knows. What works for one couple doesn't for another. Maybe he will be in a DA-AP dynamic with someone else for whom it is enough, and they'll stay together longterm. Or maybe he'll be in a relationship with someone who is more secure than he is and for whom the dynamic doesn't push the other person to become more AP. Or maybe he won't even want or need a longterm monogamous relationship and will be sufficiently happy with multiple relationships following a similar pattern of yours and his. I've had relation(ship)s/friendships where I've been DA, and some where I've been AP, often in response to the other person's prevailing attachment style. Most people aren't very conscious of these dynamics. People can become more conscious.
I do think in general people need to help themselves (again things like books or these message boards or therapy can help) and it's a longterm process like everything else.
In short, yes, I think most people can change their relationship dynamics through working on it over time, though I'm not sure how common it actually is for people to really change.
|
|
|
Post by ladyofthewood on Jun 4, 2018 1:45:49 GMT
Pretty much how I've been feeling. Thanks for the response. I do find a lot of people just don't care to help themselves. I think about that even with former friendships that I've had, and I always hope it's something that people grow out of, though I'm aware many people don't. It's just frustrating when you see potential in other people and they don't even realize what they're missing out on. But I'm sure people have thought that of me before, as well.
I've definitely been avoidant in a past relationship, so I see what you mean about that, too.
Thank You!! I have a lot to reflect on.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 4, 2018 1:59:03 GMT
A lot of people do not see a reason to change or they focus on changing only the "outside/circumstances" and not work on their inner lives or they think it is the other person's fault. Lasting change can only take place when a person decides that he or she wants to change.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 2:02:59 GMT
Pretty much how I've been feeling. Thanks for the response. I do find a lot of people just don't care to help themselves. I think about that even with former friendships that I've had, and I always hope it's something that people grow out of, though I'm aware many people don't. It's just frustrating when you see potential in other people and they don't even realize what they're missing out on. But I'm sure people have thought that of me before, as well. I've definitely been avoidant in a past relationship, so I see what you mean about that, too. Thank You!! I have a lot to reflect on. so, when you were avoidant, did you consider that there was a thin line between your avoidance and sociopathy or is that just when you feel rejected by a person who behaves avoidantly? Maybe you are not in fact secure, that seems like some pretty extreme thinking there. What in your description of your supposed avoidant points to sociopathy? As always, it's good to examine yourself in any dynamic.
|
|
|
Post by ladyofthewood on Jun 4, 2018 5:16:42 GMT
Pretty much how I've been feeling. Thanks for the response. I do find a lot of people just don't care to help themselves. I think about that even with former friendships that I've had, and I always hope it's something that people grow out of, though I'm aware many people don't. It's just frustrating when you see potential in other people and they don't even realize what they're missing out on. But I'm sure people have thought that of me before, as well. I've definitely been avoidant in a past relationship, so I see what you mean about that, too. Thank You!! I have a lot to reflect on. so, when you were avoidant, did you consider that there was a thin line between your avoidance and sociopathy or is that just when you feel rejected by a person who behaves avoidantly? Maybe you are not in fact secure, that seems like some pretty extreme thinking there. What in your description of your supposed avoidant points to sociopathy? As always, it's good to examine yourself in any dynamic. _________________ I had no clue I was being avoidant at the time, still not even completely sure that I was now (now sure why I typed "definitely" originally, I have a lot going through my head right now). It was a long distance relationship and I was enjoying it for the most part but my boyfriend at the time felt we didn't have a deep enough connection, but he was super paranoid, had a lot of walls up, and was hard to communicate with. Because of that I knew it wasn't going to get any deeper but didn't mind. At that time I did have a harder time understanding and expressing my feelings and had more walls up. Is that avoidant? I threw out the sociopathy vs avoidant as a question, not a statement. But it comes from the fact that I dated a sociopath before this most recent relationship. I have some PTSD from it, and I found some similarities between my sociopath ex and my most recent ex. I had a hard time distinguishing between what was a trigger vs what was a red flag. I'm certain that my most recent ex is not a sociopath, but was wondering if there is some correlation or commonality. I have always felt like "the healthy one" in my relationships, since I've ended up with emotionally unavailable men, but I've also always known that I play some part in that unhealthiness but have had a hard time figuring out why. Because of the lovely mix of grieving this relationship, going through some other life changes, and experiencing PTSD I've been quite panicky recently. So this post was written in a frenzied state and I'm not secure at the moment. Working on it big time though. I appreciate your questions, getting me to dig a bit deeper. Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Jun 4, 2018 10:14:42 GMT
“This is the way I am”, is someone who isn’t ready for change. This stuff is so deeply ingrained that there has to be some sort of pain to even gain awareness, let alone see the need for change.
Having been married to a secure and had a non relationship with a secure and dragged her into APness, I can see how all this is totally puzzling to anyone who hasn’t come across this before.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 11:55:43 GMT
ladyofthewood, your posting seems a bit controlling to me, as though you are a codependent "fixer". your comments about people changing, and not seeing the potential you see, sound quite codependent. picking unavailable men is a good indication that you are yourself, unavailable. I would urge you to delve into exploring your own potential codependency, and attachment style. seeing yourself as the healthy person in dysfunctional relationships that you choose is probably getting in the way of understanding what's really going on. if you can drop that defense you can open your heart toward your own pain and hope for healing instead of trying to exert influence where you have none, to your detriment. I have recovered from severe PTSD and i know the horror of that. i breathed frankincense in my palms in times of panic or flashback and it helped me. that's how i learned breath meditation actually and it was key to resetting my nervous system. with meditation and other healing practices i was able to stop all medications administered to me for sleep, anxiety, panic--- i am free. one step at a time, hang in there. healing is possible but it will require a diligent focus on yourself instead of your partners.
|
|
|
Post by ladyofthewood on Jun 5, 2018 23:38:35 GMT
juniperthank you, you responses have been incredibly helpful and insightful. I even said to a friend recently that I felt like I was addicted to my recent ex. I never felt secure in our relationship, yet I clung to him. I've admitted in the past that I've been an enabler, too. Outside of relationships I feel like a confident secure person, yet I seek out toxicity. I guess I fool myself into thinking I have my shit together. Seriously, thank you. I suggest to people all the time that they work on themselves first, that you can't help others if you don't help yourself. I didn't even realize I wasn't taking my own advice. I appreciate you dearly <3
|
|
|
Post by ladyofthewood on Jun 5, 2018 23:42:02 GMT
mrobThanks for your response, gave me some clarity, I appreciate it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 0:47:00 GMT
juniperthank you, you responses have been incredibly helpful and insightful. I even said to a friend recently that I felt like I was addicted to my recent ex. I never felt secure in our relationship, yet I clung to him. I've admitted in the past that I've been an enabler, too. Outside of relationships I feel like a confident secure person, yet I seek out toxicity. I guess I fool myself into thinking I have my shit together. Seriously, thank you. I suggest to people all the time that they work on themselves first, that you can't help others if you don't help yourself. I didn't even realize I wasn't taking my own advice. I appreciate you dearly <3 i am very happy that my contribution is helpful to you! the liberation from your own pattern begins! if you're brave and sincere your effort will be rewarded. hang in there, it's a rocky road but it goes to a good place.
|
|