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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 23:39:56 GMT
I am sorry for your experience with your mom Juniper...but that is not how it was meant by me. I owned my own inability to let go...I did not call out Ocarina...I simply stated my process and I believe I am allowed to do that within my own post. I don't know how that then becomes a general statement about avoidants...perhaps you can help me to understand. we can just remain at an impasse. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 23:56:07 GMT
you've tailed me on OTHER people's threads quoting me when i triggered you, having said nothing to you or about you.
so i guess you took a generalization personally as a trigger.
you've private messaged me letting me know i've triggered you, after soliciting my advice and i took the time to give it to you.
there are times you've let me know how badly i triggered you when i wasn't saying anything to You or About You at all.
When you get triggered you need to make a big deal about it.
but if you don't understand where i am coming from, it's ok.
i'm not going to pursue it with you.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 13, 2018 0:01:46 GMT
Firstly tnr I am really sorry if what I posted was hurtful and even more so if it made you cry - it wasn't meant to be judgemental in any way and I really accept we have our own processes. I suppose that as an outsider it really saddens me that someone as kind, compassionate and good hearted as you so obviously are, can remain wedged in this cycle of pain. I think as an avoidant it's really difficult to understand - in your situation I would simply not engage with him on social media because it was triggering me and causing suffering = this is particularly so since I have begun to work on valuing myself. Please forgive me for being so blunt - it was meant with the best intentions, but I am well aware that we all have our own journeys and of course, wish you the very best with yours. Hey Ocarina...I think I read and responded to Juniper's posts and did not see yours....you did not cause me to be hurt..not by a long shot....if anything your suggestions are extremely valid and I so appreciate what you posted. I was speaking to my internal process as more of an awareness of an impasse within myself. The tears were in anticipation that you would judge my inability to move forward...that I would disappoint you as I had disappointed my mom so many times for not being able to take her advice and make progress. You are not my mom..but my reaction and fear was the same. I am so sorry that that was somehow not clear. I really appreciate your strong and clear direction. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 13, 2018 0:06:06 GMT
Juniper...I think there is a long line of misinterpreting what I said which first started with Ocarina..and I have clarified that above. I am sorry that in that misinterpretation of events.....Ocarina did not trigger me..that trigger was within myself and I owned it above. I guess I should have read the responses in order...and I do understand why you would be upset based on what Ocarina had posted....so I acknowledge your perspective and hope that you can forgive how I triggered you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 0:18:47 GMT
Juniper...I think there is a long line of misinterpreting what I said which first started with Ocarina..and I have clarified that above. I am sorry that in that misinterpretation of events.....Ocarina did not trigger me..that trigger was within myself and I owned it above. I guess I should have read the responses in order...and I do understand why you would be upset based on what Ocarina had posted....so I acknowledge your perspective and hope that you can forgive how I triggered you. ok, but with the history of you tailing me to specifically let me know i had triggered you, this post of yours looked exactly the same. and so far i have only seen you make a big deal about your triggers, with avoidants on this forum, and way too much with me until i told you i had enough. your triggers make it seem like you make everything about you. and then you draw people into conversations about it and the whole good advice thread becomes about your triggers. sure, it's your thread but you have hijacked other threads about other people, with your triggers. and, i stand by what i said that if you really can't take your own advice and blatantly choose to remain stuck then maybe you can dial back giving that very same advice to new posters. you don't have to and can do what you like, just offering a perspective. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 13, 2018 2:45:38 GMT
Juniper...I have had other posts where I have appreciated your advice and posting and I did apologize if my post was misinterpreted and caused you to feel triggered. Obviously I don't know you and I was not trying in any way to invalidate you. I believed I had clarified things in my response to Ocarina...but it seems there are still lingering thoughts about me and my process and that is ok. I know you are simply pointing me in the direction that would lead to the best form of healing and I do appreciate it.
I also believe it is much better to be honest and call out that I am stuck rather than say I am moving on, when my actions would show that I was choosing to be stuck. That to me is being congruent. I can still offer to others what I am challenged with because perhaps they are further along and can hear it. I actually look at my ability to speak up about being stuck as progress for me..it would not be progress for someone else...but it allows me an opportunity to define myself..not because I am trying to go against sage advice, but to explain why I am not ready for such advice but am ok with myself being in that place.
I was the black sheep too...but my mom used to offer all kinds of advice to me..advice that came with the not so subtle message that there was something wrong with me and she could not "handle" me. Then she would get angry at me for not acting upon her advice...and I would be trapped in feelings of always needing to apologize, never feeling like I could define myself because she had already defined me. I am exploring why advice tends to cause me to want to get defensive..this is something I am now aware of as I have been on vacation with my family.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 3:39:18 GMT
tnr9i don't believe we will agree on any of these points, which is perfectly ok. as an adult i personally find it grating to hear from another adult that i remind them of their mom, i feel like my personal preference would be to have that handled internally and not made my business, that seems like the more mature route to me. so i am truly thankful you stopped doing that to me on this forum. an opinion is just an opinion and we all have them. i'm cool leaving it there and just not engaging with the triggers over advice on an interactive forum. I really was just telling you my mom story because you do that a lot and i didn't know if you had ever experienced it yourself. the story is true but i don't typically go putting that on other people like you do.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 13, 2018 3:56:00 GMT
Hey Juniper...I wasn't trying to say that you are like my mom....I was offering to you my black sheep story so that perhaps you could understand why I sometimes get defensive about advice...any advice, from anyone...but that defensiveness is not about you,..it is completely a result of my mom (separate from you).
I really appreciated the vulnerability you showed about sharing your story about your mom...I think because my mom is very stoic....she did not/does not show a lot of emotions. She gets on with things....and she is not a bad woman...she and I are just different in how we fundamentally are.
i think it is ok too Juniper that we do not always agree or align..as long as there is respect and an ability to acknowledge each other. I truly do appreciate you being here on these forums.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 4:09:54 GMT
Hey Juniper...I wasn't trying to say that you are like my mom....I was offering to you my black sheep story so that perhaps you could understand why I sometimes get defensive about advice...any advice, from anyone...but that defensiveness is not about you,..it is completely a result of my mom (separate from you). do you even get why a person might consider it kind of a boundary violation to tell them that what they did triggered you because of what your mom used to do to you? i mean, in private conversations you have done that to me- i personally think it would actually trigger you if i was like "tnr9 when you said that i broke down crying and my mom used to make me feel the same way, she made me feel like there was something wrong with me. " based on your own perspectives that you share, i kind of imagine you feeling all judged and maybe i don't know triggered, like someone was seeing you in a negative light and that you'd have to deal with it somehow. the other person is kind of right there in the trigger slot with your mom who apparently is the reason for the wounds of your inner child. i just have never seen another adult go laying that on people like you do here. has anyone ever done that to you, have you experienced it? i'm not saying you are intentionally blaming people here for you pain. i am saying that processing triggers with other people this way is unusual for me and i have never experienced it anywhere but here from you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 4:11:23 GMT
people might feel prompted to apologize for what they said even tho there was nothing wrong with it and then you'd have to clarify that you aren't triggered by them. like happened here.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 13, 2018 4:30:44 GMT
Interesting point Juniper...but I guess I don't see defensiveness as a trigger reaction and I am not expecting anyone to tiptoe around me. What I am not 100% clear on is whether you are referring back to my original response to Ocarina where I spoke about having an automatic response of crying for fear of being judged. I clarified later that it was not specifically tied to her at all...it was something automatic within me that I noticed...and since I was speaking about my side of things and did not say "You triggered me" I did not see it as a boundary violation. I think perhaps I process things differently because I am very aware of my emotions and I forget that not everyone who reads my posts will necessarily come at it from the same perspective and thus....perhaps there is a tone of judgement that for me did not exist when I decided to post. It is just something that I will try to be aware of for the future.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 4:31:41 GMT
it's like you pay more attention to your "little girl" than to other people you are interacting with and her voice is the only one you acknowledge.
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some people do that subconsciously but you're doing it consciously. having been on the receiving end of it when you ASKED me for advice , and when you haven't, has been interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 4:34:03 GMT
Interesting point Juniper...but I guess I don't see defensiveness as a trigger reaction and I am not expecting anyone to tiptoe around me. What I am not 100% clear on is whether you are referring back to my original response to Ocarina where I spoke about having an automatic response of crying for fear of being judged. I clarified later that it was not specifically tied to her at all...it was something automatic within me that I noticed...and since I was speaking about my side of things and did not say "You triggered me" I did not see it as a boundary violation. I think perhaps I process things differently because I am very aware of my emotions and I forget that not everyone who reads my posts will necessarily come at it from the same perspective and thus....perhaps there is a tone of judgement that for me did not exist when I decided to post. It is just something that I will try to be aware of for the future. i agree, interesting. not something i want to spend further time on in the forum and that's the only place i experience this, but it was a good discussion. i think we can just agree to not align on this issue and call it good.  |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 13, 2018 4:38:00 GMT
Juniper..I agree and I am really glad we could have this dialogue in a respectful manner.🙂
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Post by ocarina on Jul 13, 2018 11:54:03 GMT
Hello to all - this has morphed into an interesting discussion whilst I have been sleeping!
I think somewhere along the way in healing, once it's possible to really sit with feelings with kindness, compassion and without judgement, we need to take the next step - and whilst we had no choice as children, who and what our parents were, we do now have a choice to listen to our ghost children and allow them to be - BUT (and this is important) also not allow ourselves to become them or be controlled by them. As adults we are no longer compelled to choose partners who don't love us, talk to abusive siblings or whatever - we can choose to nurture ourselves by detaching with love.
Remaining in a painful situation - whether a bad relationship, a toxic friendship, an obsessive past lover, or whatever, requires a choice consistently made to not turn towards the most terrifying pain of all - to turn towards the pain of letting go and truly allowing the old me story to dissolve and die. Staying in a situation that causes repeated pain is an avoidance of the ultimate pain - but the ultimate pain once embraced is actually the gateway to the part of us that isn't our story.
After a while the stories from our past begin to feel like old friends, like childhood sweethearts, like songs we learnt off by heart. We begin to believe them and they cloak us and we believe we are defined by them - we become them. In reality the only way out ( I believe) and the only way to truly turn towards ourselves is to allow ourselves to be with real kindness - and this usually means bearing the very greatest of pain - the kind of pain that feels like dying. The wonderful thing is that the other side of this lies real freedom.
I feel - being really honest, that your consistent friendship with B is causing you pain repeatedly and it seems - as an outsider who again, may be wrong, that the ultimate fear is the pain of letting go. But in staying you're not allowing yourself to be available - to yourself or to another partner. Horrible though it may seem - perhaps the hurt of saying goodbye to him in order to look after your pain with compassion and acceptance, will be, at some stage, the key to healing going forward.
This isn't meant to be advice - just honest feedback and again - please take or leave it. I think I had better practice what I preach and not go on and on again on here about this!
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