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Post by madamebovary on Jul 15, 2018 14:49:59 GMT
I am an AP who had a 14 month relationship with an Avoidant. We had a couple NC periods in that time and are now (I think, because he is very vague on the subject and won’t answer anything I ask directly) officially broken up. Here’s the thing...
I have an almost obsessive need to stay friends with him, although it doesn’t seem like something he wants. The best thing for me, emotionally, would probably be to let it go and forget about him altogether, however, because there was such a huge emotional investment in this relationship, it seems silly to throw out the baby (the friendship) with the bathwater (the relationship).
I have accepted that he probably can never be friends, now I’m trying to figure out why it’s always so important to me that I remain friends with my exes. Do other APs do this? I’ve honestly never understood people that just stop speaking. You were so important to each other for so long and now you’re just strangers again? That’s crazy to me. But I know it’s the norm... so why can’t I do it?
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 15, 2018 18:10:22 GMT
I am not friends with any of my other exes..and trying to navigate back to friendship with B has been challenging because I still have romantic feelings for him (and yes, he knows this). The four guys I dated for over 3 years each moved on to other relationships and I wished each of them well..but we did not share circles of friends so going completely NC was fine. The other two guys were Narcissists and it was truly in my best interest to make a completely break from them.
Most dating expects recommend a clean break unless the breakup was a mutual decision school it does not sound was the case in your breakup.
Perhaps you think that he will treat you differently if the tone is "we are just friends"? Just something to consider because what if nothing changes and then he moves on to someone else..are you going to be ok with that?
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Post by notalone on Jul 16, 2018 18:56:02 GMT
I can relate to wanting to stay friends. I think because AP's have a fear of abandonment letting go completely activates "primal panic", a response we developed in our nervous system when we were babies and we weren't sure if we'd survive because nurturing was inconsistent. That response is still in our nervous systems, so when we try to let go the nervous system responds as if we might die, which manifests in horrible anxiety, so we try to hang on by staying friends. While it may seem like staying friends makes sense, it can make detaching harder for everyone involved, whether secure or insecurely attached, so not being friends can often be the healthiest option for everyone even though it doesn't feel like it. Also, I think if I'm honest with myself sometimes I want to stay friends because I hope we'll get back together, and if the other person doesn't want that, a clean break can just make things easier.
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Post by leavethelighton on Jul 17, 2018 23:40:25 GMT
Is it possible that your desire to stay friends actually on some deeper level is a hope of eventually being romantic again,or at least of regaining the previous emotional intimacy even if there is no physical intimacy, or is it really just about friendship?I think for some APS, they may tell themselves they just want to be friends, but it is a manifestation of the difficulty letting go of the previous intimacy and accepting that the other person no longer wants that.
Another possibility may be that it is difficult to give up. I don't know if it's an AP thing or something else, but I find it VERY difficult to give up. It feels like it somehow invalidates how very meaningful something is/was to not keep trying. We want to prove the worthiness of our love by having it never die. We want to believe in infinity. That sort of thing.
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 8, 2018 18:00:20 GMT
For me, I will often want some kind friendship with an ex for one of the following reasons (depending on the scenario and my feelings):
- if I am hoping we might get back together (likely a mistake but how can one rekindle things if you aren't in any contact)
- if I feel suddenly discarded, to reassure myself that they actually care about me
- if I am hoping to move on and get over them
Becoming friends with exes has often helped me to move on, because I get to see a side of them I didn't see in the relationship. When the dating relationship was short-lived, sometimes I will realize I had idealized them and that they are not actually someone I want a relationship with. And sometimes once we're friends they share a lot with me that they never did while in the relationship, for example one ex told me that he was actually already in love with someone else while we were dating, which really helped me understand his behavior and why it didn't work out between us and to stop blaming myself.
Regardless of my initial reason, for me being friends with an ex has more often been helpful than not. Whereas the cases where I had an intense relationship with someone and was in love or falling in love with them and then things were just suddenly severed with little or no more contact have tended to be hardest for me to recover from.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 5:35:04 GMT
Seeking external validation:
Because self-worth is so low that we think they are better than us and that we are not worthy of their love / attention / time - so by staying friends, it tells us that they will still give us their time / be nice to us. But actually, that reaffirms the low self-esteem / worth, because it reinforces the 'control' they have over us.
We want to desperately show that as many strengths as possible - so that this time they will 'see' us, and see our worth - because we can't recognise it ourselves.
Once you stand up and tell them to Go To Hell (see yasmin's post) for the way they have treated us, that is when you start to gain your self respect / self worth, etc.
If you do stay friends, unless your self-esteem is at a place that can be recovered back to manageable such as finding a new beau around that time or having something else boost you, it will more likely have a negative effect either by reinforcing the negative self-belief (keeping you where you 'belong') or knocking your esteem further down.
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Post by msa1091 on Aug 9, 2018 7:38:25 GMT
I agree with all of the sentiments here, I think there is a lot of truth even in the contradicting statements. I think for me, the thing I fear the most that drives me to needing to be friends after is because I am so terrified at the idea of being forgotten. To me, that it the ultimate abandonment. To have never existed, to have never mattered. Being friends ensures my relevancy and gives me the peace of mind that I'm worth my existence. Then again, this only occurs while I am stuck in the insecure mode with that person. Once I have properly moved on (with or without them), I realize that my worth cannot possibly be measured by another person and feel okay about being forgotten. I will admit, though, I think this security is easier to achieve when the other person is willing to give closure, and that closure can be quite precious in the form of friendship. But that's dependent on the relationship moving to a healthy place--if it's a friendship that maintains the insecure dynamic you had, then it's going to be detrimental. It's very complicated I think.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 9:44:06 GMT
I agree with all of the sentiments here, I think there is a lot of truth even in the contradicting statements. I think for me, the thing I fear the most that drives me to needing to be friends after is because I am so terrified at the idea of being forgotten. To me, that it the ultimate abandonment. To have never existed, to have never mattered. Being friends ensures my relevancy and gives me the peace of mind that I'm worth my existence. Then again, this only occurs while I am stuck in the insecure mode with that person. Once I have properly moved on (with or without them), I realize that my worth cannot possibly be measured by another person and feel okay about being forgotten. I will admit, though, I think this security is easier to achieve when the other person is willing to give closure, and that closure can be quite precious in the form of friendship. But that's dependent on the relationship moving to a healthy place--if it's a friendship that maintains the insecure dynamic you had, then it's going to be detrimental. It's very complicated I think. I agree with this - I also think that, looking back at past relationships, the ones that finished with some sort of closure helped (which, if there wasn't, I always attempted to achieve in what I still feel were healthy, simple and open ways) and that I have had some of of contact with since, have shown to be less along the attachment spectrum. I.e., they were healthier individuals, even if they have issues, etc. Self-validation of your own worth is the key to reducing / overcoming that severe abandonment trigger. Because we have usually enmeshed with the other, and the other knows this as their power over you, by cutting contact they continue to exercise that power without you there (boosting there own fragile self-worth). When you see that and understand that you can have greater power by allowing the other to abandon you if that is what they choose to do and seeing that you are worth more than that - really believing it - then you can release the shackles and start moving forward. Which is why when you meet the next one, you often get over the previous one - you / your worth is being again validated externally. Usually, the AP's partner is keeping them (the AP) insecure because it suits them - when an AP gets that and changes their viewpoint / understanding, it can create a massive change not only in their romantic relationships but others too. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 11, 2018 17:19:13 GMT
Usually, the AP's partner is keeping them (the AP) insecure because it suits them - when an AP gets that and changes their viewpoint / understanding, it can create a massive change not only in their romantic relationships but others too. That's a great point, and I think it can be a distancing tactic if it's coming from another insecure, or a control tactic if it's coming from someone who is more disturbed than attachment issues (like PD). A few years ago I dated a most likely FA man for a couple months-- who I'm still friendly with, and that's been fine for us since we both moved on. But when we were dating he drove me crazy with confusion. What I noticed was he'd talk about how insecure all his exes were, including his ex wife, and that it was different for him to be dating someone a lot more confident. I think in context, he was referring to me mostly not being a jealous person. He really meant it as a compliment, not a manipulation, but it did make me think later on. He was still talking to new women online when it was past the point of being okay, and I had to confront him about it. He wasn't meeting any of them, basically just was still hoping for tons of validation/attention after his divorce. (All the red flags!) He then told me he understood why I wanted to discuss it, and admitted he wasn't doing his part to make me feel secure. So I started thinking to myself, yeah, what about your role? Did you choose jealous women or did you engage in behaviors that made them insecure? And shortly thereafter I realized that not only was he not doing much to make ME feel secure... but also even his dog had a huge separation anxiety problem! In retrospect with him being FA, I don't think he was consciously trying to make anyone insecure but it was his preferred state. It kept the relationship at a distance for him, another excuse to be critical of his partners and not feel engulfed. He's never changed, either, and I've cringed about what he has told his now long-term partner about our friendship... the wording was just implying she SHOULD be jealous but that it would be entirely her problem! I don't know if she is secure or not, but she really has nothing to worry about from me, so I pulled way back because I'm not trying to cause any issues for her. He did manage to crack my confidence, too, though. He found another ridiculous hyper-critical excuse to break up with me, which made me horribly insecure about an aspect of myself for a couple years  I knew rationally it was nonsensical for him to break things off over, but it was something I was already sensitive about. I'm sure if I hadn't been so AP, I'd not have stayed friends after that, but he's been back to being a decent person and friend since I am no longer a romantic "threat" to his attachment system. And watching how he treats other partners and never changes has been illuminating. Anyway, I think the distinction between, AP rumination / attributing negative intent anxiety when the partner is doing nothing wrong versus your AP side isn't overreacting -- your partner really isn't respectful enough of you, is extremely important for APs to learn to recognize. It's not always your fault! |
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Post by msa1091 on Aug 12, 2018 15:15:28 GMT
alexandra I love that you bring up this point of distinguishing "fault"--one of the hardest things to unravel from these arrangements is figuring out what behaviors you can attribute to being an AP, and which were a product of the other person's issues (which, as you noted, maybe it's attachment-related, or maybe it's beyond that). That is, was it your anxiety projecting/internalizing situations unfairly, or did the person actually do really shitty things that would make even a secure person feel bad? What has helped me try to tease this out is asking myself "What would a strongly secure individual do or advise in this situation?" And if the answer is 'leave," then I have my answer. People who are securely attached would not tolerate manipulative behavior, they would not tolerate weird power-play behaviors--they may not even take it personally, they would just recognize it for how unhealthy it is. I have had to write down certain things that I was made to feel like I was over-reacting so I could examine the situations more objectively and give myself reminders that how I was treated was absolutely creating an insecure environment in which any decision I made other than leaving would be perpetuating the insecure model.
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Post by Liz on Sept 3, 2018 12:26:43 GMT
"If you had to choose between being liked and being respected, which would you choose?"
Wanting to be friends with someone who does not respect you makes them disrespect you even more. They think they have power over you and they are right.
I choose the "Go to hell!" option and self-respect. Friendships as well as romantic relationships only work on equal terms. Until this is not the case between two people, true friendship is impossible, it is an illusion with hidden agenda.
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Post by Liz on Sept 8, 2018 7:59:40 GMT
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Post by jaleesa on Oct 1, 2018 7:27:47 GMT
I always wanted to stay friends with an ex because I wanted to get back together or to get some sort of validation from them. Mainly because I never got closure so my mind wandered off to all the things I could have done wrong and I wanted answers. I've learned that it depends on the relationship though.
I don't have a friendship with any of my exes because we were never friends to begin with, so for this reason it fizzled out quickly. The basics of friendship were never there. I wouldn't even know what to say to them anymore because my previous relationships were solely based on power, control and sex. There was no other connection.
However, the basis of my last relationship was friendship. We genuinely loved and respected each other and we could talk to each other about literally anything. So I can see myself being friends with him because he truly is my best friend and he enriches my life. Nowadays I try to look for things we have to offer each other.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 27, 2018 4:31:37 GMT
I am an AP who had a 14 month relationship with an Avoidant. We had a couple NC periods in that time and are now (I think, because he is very vague on the subject and won’t answer anything I ask directly) officially broken up. Here’s the thing... I have an almost obsessive need to stay friends with him, although it doesn’t seem like something he wants. The best thing for me, emotionally, would probably be to let it go and forget about him altogether, however, because there was such a huge emotional investment in this relationship, it seems silly to throw out the baby (the friendship) with the bathwater (the relationship). I have accepted that he probably can never be friends, now I’m trying to figure out why it’s always so important to me that I remain friends with my exes. Do other APs do this? I’ve honestly never understood people that just stop speaking. You were so important to each other for so long and now you’re just strangers again? That’s crazy to me. But I know it’s the norm... so why can’t I do it? Hey...I’ve never remained friends with my exes- I wouldn’t be able to go from romantic feelings to platonic. Too hard for me to shut down my emotions- it does seem odd to go from being so close to strangers but I did that with my ex husband who I was with from the ages of 14-40. I blocked him at every side- phone, text, email...just so I could move on peacefully with my life without constant conflict and stress. I’m currently staying in a relationship with a DA who broke up with me but only bc I’d like us to be back together. If I really wanted to move on and let go, figuratively speaking- I’d have to do it physically as well. |
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Post by kibbins on Oct 29, 2018 21:13:47 GMT
I guess I'm in the minority because I'm really close friends with all 3 of my serious exes, feel absolutely nothing for them romantically, we give each other relationship advice and I have zero desire to be with them in that way. One of them is probably my best friend. Yet here I am desperately trying to get over this DA guy i dated for 6 months and clinging on to breadcrumbs, fully AP and in turmoil. I've never been like this before. It scares me.
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I knew rationally it was nonsensical for him to break things off over, but it was something I was already sensitive about. I'm sure if I hadn't been so AP, I'd not have stayed friends after that, but he's been back to being a decent person and friend since I am no longer a romantic "threat" to his attachment system. And watching how he treats other partners and never changes has been illuminating. 