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Post by tnr9 on Jul 22, 2018 11:16:45 GMT
I have been observing my patterns for a while and I see a rather glaring dynamic within myself. As many of you know....I have been trying to navigate back to friendship with the guy I dated. While I still believe this is absolutely doable and is something that I want..it does require me to face some interesting truths about myself.
Even though he has made it very clear where he stands....it still feels too often like rejection/abandonment/disconnection because I haven't accepted that he is only going to provide what is appropriate for online friends...which is so much less then what I want from him.
But there is also the flip side of that coin....the blaming myself for not being ok with this level of "friendship"..which is also tied to feelings that I "failed" at the relationship and if I had just done x and y differently or been more chill.better able to accept what he had to offer..then we would still be together. Neither of these perspectives is really helpful, because neither is accepting of things as they "are".
So I see an opportunity to acknowledge the feelings that come up, while also letting go of any judgement of myself or him. Acceptance is slow, bumpy and more painful then I expected..but it is truly better to accept things then to stay in a state of longing for what cannot be.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 11:32:24 GMT
tnr9 - hugs!
I am in a similar position.
I think we want to fix what we couldn't with our caregivers growing up, and we think this time we will be able to.
The way I am dealing with it atm is to see him as undeveloped, way behind where I am (given the work I have put into healing myself).
APs generally have very low self worth - this is one place I have learnt to raise my self worth, because I have committed to putting in the time to heal myself (an ongoing process).
It is a bit of 'I'm better than him' - but I found that I actually need to do that, to see the reality that I am not worth less than, as I was raised to feel and is about allowing your actual feelings. It is also part of raising your tolerance to something more healthy.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 22, 2018 14:31:32 GMT
tnr9 - hugs! I am in a similar position. I think we want to fix what we couldn't with our caregivers growing up, and we think this time we will be able to. The way I am dealing with it atm is to see him as undeveloped, way behind where I am (given the work I have put into healing myself). APs generally have very low self worth - this is one place I have learnt to raise my self worth, because I have committed to putting in the time to heal myself (an ongoing process). It is a bit of 'I'm better than him' - but I found that I actually need to do that, to see the reality that I am not worth less than, as I was raised to feel and is about allowing your actual feelings. It is also part of raising your tolerance to something more healthy. I honestly cannot see myself as further along than B...to some degree, his ability to "move on" faster feels a bit healthier and in our community, I am the one who has had a rougher time adjusting back to friendship. He has given up some unhealthy habits and is in school at the moment so that he can get a better job. I suspect the idea that he is ahead of me is an illusion, but somehow I am invested in it....and I get really defensive of him when someone else implies I deserve "better" than him. It is a very old "I need to protect him" perspective that I will explore further. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 17:49:58 GMT
I think the missing bit is that you both ARE doing better - you are addressing the issues. They aren't - they are doing what they always do as a distraction from the pain.
Stay strong - the stronger you are, as uncomfortable and abnormal it may seem, the more you respect yourself, your worth, your boundaries, the greater the effect.
You may lose them - which means they aren't ready to move forward - but I can guarantee if you do, that at some point in the future they will remember you for doing so ... #lessonlearnt.
Remember - stay strong to You.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 22, 2018 21:33:28 GMT
I think the missing bit is that you both ARE doing better - you are addressing the issues. They aren't - they are doing what they always do as a distraction from the pain. Stay strong - the stronger you are, as uncomfortable and abnormal it may seem, the more you respect yourself, your worth, your boundaries, the greater the effect. You may lose them - which means they aren't ready to move forward - but I can guarantee if you do, that at some point in the future they will remember you for doing so ... #lessonlearnt. Remember - stay strong to You. Thank you....I honestly don't know if I truly am doing better....but I will take the compliment.🙂 |
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Post by leavethelighton on Jul 25, 2018 0:15:17 GMT
I have been observing my patterns for a while and I see a rather glaring dynamic within myself. As many of you know....I have been trying to navigate back to friendship with the guy I dated. While I still believe this is absolutely doable and is something that I want..it does require me to face some interesting truths about myself. Even though he has made it very clear where he stands....it still feels too often like rejection/abandonment/disconnection because I haven't accepted that he is only going to provide what is appropriate for online friends...which is so much less then what I want from him. But there is also the flip side of that coin....the blaming myself for not being ok with this level of "friendship"..which is also tied to feelings that I "failed" at the relationship and if I had just done x and y differently or been more chill.better able to accept what he had to offer..then we would still be together. Neither of these perspectives is really helpful, because neither is accepting of things as they "are". So I see an opportunity to acknowledge the feelings that come up, while also letting go of any judgement of myself or him. Acceptance is slow, bumpy and more painful then I expected..but it is truly better to accept things then to stay in a state of longing for what cannot be.
I can relate to almost all of this pattern. Acceptance is hard to really achieve, but I think you're right that is what we're aiming for. You make an interesting point about the oscillation between blaming them and blaming one's self, back and forth-- why can't they be here, why couldn't I have made them want to-- etc.
It has helped me a lot to embrace the idea that everyone did the best they could at the time given their previous life experiences/history, their physical and mental health, their way their brain is wired to be, and their various resources-- including myself. It's hard to face up to that when we wish we could go back in time and do things differently or wish someone else had, but the older I get the more I do think that most people are doing the best they can (unfortunately because that also means politicians we dislike probably are LOL).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 8:26:41 GMT
I have been observing my patterns for a while and I see a rather glaring dynamic within myself. As many of you know....I have been trying to navigate back to friendship with the guy I dated. While I still believe this is absolutely doable and is something that I want..it does require me to face some interesting truths about myself. Even though he has made it very clear where he stands....it still feels too often like rejection/abandonment/disconnection because I haven't accepted that he is only going to provide what is appropriate for online friends...which is so much less then what I want from him. But there is also the flip side of that coin....the blaming myself for not being ok with this level of "friendship"..which is also tied to feelings that I "failed" at the relationship and if I had just done x and y differently or been more chill.better able to accept what he had to offer..then we would still be together. Neither of these perspectives is really helpful, because neither is accepting of things as they "are". So I see an opportunity to acknowledge the feelings that come up, while also letting go of any judgement of myself or him. Acceptance is slow, bumpy and more painful then I expected..but it is truly better to accept things then to stay in a state of longing for what cannot be.
I can relate to almost all of this pattern. Acceptance is hard to really achieve, but I think you're right that is what we're aiming for. You make an interesting point about the oscillation between blaming them and blaming one's self, back and forth-- why can't they be here, why couldn't I have made them want to-- etc.
It has helped me a lot to embrace the idea that everyone did the best they could at the time given their previous life experiences/history, their physical and mental health, their way their brain is wired to be, and their various resources-- including myself. It's hard to face up to that when we wish we could go back in time and do things differently or wish someone else had, but the older I get the more I do think that most people are doing the best they can (unfortunately because that also means politicians we dislike probably are LOL).
I too can relate - and agree with compassionateavoid. Everyone is doing the best they can. As I work to move more of my AP tendencies to Secure, the part that has made a big change is having validation that the effort I have put into improving myself. It has been a driver in my life because I was told the opposite much of my former years yet I couldn't understand why. I've always asked 'Why?' about most things. That led me to understand and work on myself, to the point that I have - apparently, and now obviously to me - made significant changes. ...Which means that I can be proud of myself - not a natural thing for me to do - and actually elevate my self worth. Having very low self-worth often creates an invisible barrier to moving forwards. By realising that the ingrained beliefs are actually not true, it means I can elevate myself above those that hurt me: "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". I will never be arrogant - this is the difference. And accepting that you are in a different place is hard but required. |
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Post by notalone on Aug 5, 2018 19:53:07 GMT
I relate to so much of this thread.
I ended things with the last guy I dated because he’s non-committal, but I’m still in contact with him. I know I’m holding on because part of me is hoping it’ll work out some day, while most of me knows it’ll never be a healthy or sustainable relationship. We’re not in contact often, but I just can’t seem to cut the cord fully. I go between hoping he’ll contact me and knowing it’s best if he doesn’t. I try not to contact him but I do it the odd time. I think I’d do myself a favour by cutting him out all together, but I try not to be hard on myself that I haven’t. I also try to be proud of myself for ending it as soon as I found out he doesn’t do commitment. That was a big step for me. In the past I’d keep seeing someone hoping they’d change. Now if it’s not healthy I stop seeing the person. Even though that part that hopes it’ll work out one day is still there, most of me accepts how things are now. I’m still sad about it, but more of me accepts it than is fighting it. The desire to hold on comes from a deep wound I’m trying to heal. I think my deep down hope is that we’ll just trickle off and stop contacting each other. In the mean time, I’m doing my best to be gentle with myself, live my life, heal myself, and move forward. I don’t see this as being better than him in any way, I do see it as being headed to a healthier place than he is though. It’s a slightly different perspective, I feel proud of my efforts and strength and at the same time I have compassion for him.
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Post by msa1091 on Aug 6, 2018 12:34:49 GMT
It is really amazing how relatable all of these thoughts and feelings are. It's like all these things I have been so ashamed of and felt weak and stupid are things that are actually just par for the course as an AP. It's helped me a lot to see others share similar experiences, helped me process my own feelings and admit some hard truths to myself. I didn't want to admit that secretly I hope I can prove myself "worthy" to take back by pursuing these friendships/contact with people who have abandoned me--even people I don't even like or who have abused me and absolutely know aren't good for me! I am desperate for the validation. I keep seeking it outside of myself, but I know I will never truly be satisfied until I can be at peace without relying on others.
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Post by leavethelighton on Aug 8, 2018 0:13:34 GMT
Msa1091 I can relate. In fact, I think sometimes the "not letting go" is part of the "trying to be worthy." We want to prove we are worthy by not really walking away, even if-- maybe especially if-- the other person has walked away. And even if ultimately the healthy thing is to truly walk away.
I wonder what the counter to this is. Recognizing one was always "worthy"? Recognizing it isn't even about worthiness?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 5:49:25 GMT
Msa1091 I can relate. In fact, I think sometimes the "not letting go" is part of the "trying to be worthy." We want to prove we are worthy by not really walking away, even if-- maybe especially if-- the other person has walked away. And even if ultimately the healthy thing is to truly walk away. I wonder what the counter to this is. Recognizing one was always "worthy"? Recognizing it isn't even about worthiness? I think the self worth is a key thing - a bit like when you see something and then can't unseen it, I think APs were taught / 'saw' at some point that they weren't worthy (or they would have got their carer's love, etc), and so they keep trying to be / doing more and more to attempt 'please' or restore the original feelings. When I realise I have started to fall back into the wishing we were together again, will it happen, etc, then I remind myself that I am worth more than trying to prove my qualities (even whilst in NC or LC) to someone who ran / walked away. That really is returning to internal validation. I grew up with a very large amount of dysfunctional people around me and I studied them (unconsciously most of the time) to try to become perfect / see where I was going wrong, even the ones that were physical towards me. I realise how much I learnt and how I was working on myself even then, albeit in not quite the right way. One thing I have learnt that has become more understandable more recently (whilst I saw this when younger, I have changed my core beliefs which have massively changed my way of seeing this all and improved my self-worth) is this: People either turn things (pain, issues, etc) inwards or outwards. Those that turn them outwards think of themselves first, and vice versa. So, when an AP puts the other first, they are putting that other's feelings before their own / as greater than their own - so they will suffer 'for the greater good'. When someone puts themselves first, they are dismissing the other's pain, because they are not worthy of feeling anything for. BUT - the difference is about feeling:
If you can feel, even if it is for the other and not yourself, you are far more in tune than the one that is discarding the feelings in order to just feel less pain / feel better. Simply, people turn away from pain and to pleasure. If you turn to pain, whilst it is somewhat twisted, it is brave. Which means that, even if you struggle to understand or feel your own feelings, you are not running away from feelings (even if they aren't your own feelings). And this is the big thing I have learnt from my terribly painful observations and earning through my upbringing: That the ones who were (still are) the most destructive, hurtful, cruel, etc, are the ones that have continued to do the most 'safe' things in life. They have achieved through creating fear in those they can, so that they don't have to feel any of that stuff, or they have kept themselves really safe. When they did take risks of any sort, they ran away from them very quickly ... always running away, scared. So - when you see that by feeling, even when it is incorrectly apportioned or for the other other instead of yourself, you are braving yourself to actually feel. You are not running away. Which, when you think about it, is something to be proud of and so to recognise in yourself as a strength that the other doesn't have. Which, in turn, is to recognise your self-worth in comparison. Hope that makes sense. |
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Post by msa1091 on Aug 9, 2018 7:56:16 GMT
Msa1091 I can relate. In fact, I think sometimes the "not letting go" is part of the "trying to be worthy." We want to prove we are worthy by not really walking away, even if-- maybe especially if-- the other person has walked away. And even if ultimately the healthy thing is to truly walk away. I wonder what the counter to this is. Recognizing one was always "worthy"? Recognizing it isn't even about worthiness? At this point in my recovery from a recent breakup, I have realized it's not even about worthiness (for me). Just perceived worthiness. I think a lot of us know we are worthy, but won't allow ourselves to believe it unless someone else is telling us. If we truly, truly deep deep down actually did not feel worthy, then we wouldn't keep trying to "prove" it, right? Why would we be proving something we were sure didn't exist? Perhaps this is one fundamental difference between AP and FA behaviors. I feel like perhaps FA tendencies allow the person to shut down and employ avoidance tactics because they have decided there is no worth to prove, because no worth is felt. This isn't an attempt to compare, both tactics are self-destructive (pushing forward vs pulling away) and hurt ourselves, but maybe describes the motivations for our reactions/instincts for when we are hurt. I have definitely employed avoidance behaviors when I start to feel like there's nothing left to prove--once I have convinced myself my worth is nonexistent. I think the counter is to not reach the point where we let things go because we lost our sense of worthiness, but to let things go because recognizing that our worthiness doesn't need external validation to be valid. Easier said than done, I am not going to deny that external validation does wonders for self-confidence. As much as we like to preach that we don't need others' validation, it is perfectly healthy to rely on others and have others rely on us in times of need. We just have trouble distinguishing when that reliance becomes sabotaging I think, and then pulling out of it even if we do recognize it. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Aug 9, 2018 23:28:22 GMT
I agree. I think sometimes part of what makes "letting go" difficult is if we found someone who saw something in us we know is there but that few or no other people have seen, and it's hard to understand how people can know each other at that level and walk away.
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