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Post by tnr9 on Jul 24, 2018 22:13:22 GMT
I was thinking about this today...pondering back and wondering if I ever truly had a stretch of time when I felt "enough" from him...meaning..did I ever "feel" like I received enough love, connection, respect etc. I emphasize the word feel, because that is my mode of determining "enoughness"....whether I feel it. And if I am honest....the answer is no....not because he did not try to provide those things, because I know he did...but I did not feel them...they did not scratch the surface of my yearning, ache, emptiness even when we had a great time together. And that made me think, maybe my notion of enough is off....maybe my bias has been to look for possible ways someone doesn't love, respect, connect with me that it become a blockage to really connecting, loving and respecting myself and the other person. Maybe part of the answer lies in looking for the good versus the warnings and the joy versus the possible sorrow.
Thughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 22:40:24 GMT
I was thinking about this today...pondering back and wondering if I ever truly had a stretch of time when I felt "enough" from him...meaning..did I ever "feel" like I received enough love, connection, respect etc. I emphasize the word feel, because that is my mode of determining "enoughness"....whether I feel it. And if I am honest....the answer is no....not because he did not try to provide those things, because I know he did...but I did not feel them...they did not scratch the surface of my yearning, ache, emptiness even when we had a great time together. And that made me think, maybe my notion of enough is off....maybe my bias has been to look for possible ways someone doesn't love, respect, connect with me that it become a blockage to really connecting, loving and respecting myself and the other person. Maybe part of the answer lies in looking for the good versus the warnings and the joy versus the possible sorrow. Thughts? tnr9 - Have you read Attachment? The bit in there about what an AP needs to manage / change to be nearer Secure sort of explains, as does other parts of the book / audio. An avoidant can trigger even a Secure - that means that even if you are Secure, your feelings can still be swayed off balance due to the lack of a good enough response from an Avoidant (this being one of the simple measures of success in a LTR / marriage, where a small need for reassurance / support /connection is responded to in a good enough way). Whilst this may be a simplification, it illustrates that balance to Secure is nearer to the middle of being good enough, reiterated by the response of a good enough SO. I think we're all targeted on an impossible perfection, of ourselves and others ... until we realise that we are actually good enough anyway. I don't know if that makes sense?
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Post by notalone on Jul 24, 2018 23:19:27 GMT
I was thinking about this today...pondering back and wondering if I ever truly had a stretch of time when I felt "enough" from him...meaning..did I ever "feel" like I received enough love, connection, respect etc. I emphasize the word feel, because that is my mode of determining "enoughness"....whether I feel it. And if I am honest....the answer is no....not because he did not try to provide those things, because I know he did...but I did not feel them...they did not scratch the surface of my yearning, ache, emptiness even when we had a great time together. And that made me think, maybe my notion of enough is off....maybe my bias has been to look for possible ways someone doesn't love, respect, connect with me that it become a blockage to really connecting, loving and respecting myself and the other person. Maybe part of the answer lies in looking for the good versus the warnings and the joy versus the possible sorrow. Thughts? tnr9 I'm wondering what kind of attachment style the guy you mention here has, and also if you have you ever felt "enough" in any relationship? I have read that there is a lack of feeling like enough with AP attachment, so what you say makes sense. Also, I think with anything in life, we see what we look for. This is the confirmation bias idea, and it's very common.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 25, 2018 12:39:30 GMT
I was thinking about this today...pondering back and wondering if I ever truly had a stretch of time when I felt "enough" from him...meaning..did I ever "feel" like I received enough love, connection, respect etc. I emphasize the word feel, because that is my mode of determining "enoughness"....whether I feel it. And if I am honest....the answer is no....not because he did not try to provide those things, because I know he did...but I did not feel them...they did not scratch the surface of my yearning, ache, emptiness even when we had a great time together. And that made me think, maybe my notion of enough is off....maybe my bias has been to look for possible ways someone doesn't love, respect, connect with me that it become a blockage to really connecting, loving and respecting myself and the other person. Maybe part of the answer lies in looking for the good versus the warnings and the joy versus the possible sorrow. Thughts? tnr9 I'm wondering what kind of attachment style the guy you mention here has, and also if you have you ever felt "enough" in any relationship? I have read that there is a lack of feeling like enough with AP attachment, so what you say makes sense. Also, I think with anything in life, we see what we look for. This is the confirmation bias idea, and it's very common. I don't know his attachment style....if I were to guess, he is FA.....however....we never took the test together. If "enough" is having security that your partner will not leave you...then "yes"...I think....twice....my 2 long term relationships were that way.....but then I would find someone else that sparked the attachment wounding and I would leave that security for the roller coaster. I am not saying the men I dated were in fact secure, they just did not (at that them) cause my fears to surface...and in that space...I guess I did not know what to do and so the allure of old patterns just drew me away. Sad really, because I would honestly love to feel a form of security right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 12:59:11 GMT
I was thinking about this today...pondering back and wondering if I ever truly had a stretch of time when I felt "enough" from him...meaning..did I ever "feel" like I received enough love, connection, respect etc. I emphasize the word feel, because that is my mode of determining "enoughness"....whether I feel it. And if I am honest....the answer is no....not because he did not try to provide those things, because I know he did...but I did not feel them...they did not scratch the surface of my yearning, ache, emptiness even when we had a great time together. And that made me think, maybe my notion of enough is off....maybe my bias has been to look for possible ways someone doesn't love, respect, connect with me that it become a blockage to really connecting, loving and respecting myself and the other person. Maybe part of the answer lies in looking for the good versus the warnings and the joy versus the possible sorrow. Thughts? what i am going to share here is not with an intention to harm you in any way, rather to validate what you're saying about looking for the good. My experience of AP dynamics personally has been overwhelmingly negative for the reasons you outline here. Nothing good, about me, the situation, the good times, was ever enough. The insatiable need for more could never be met. My inability and lack of interest in constantly trying to prove myself because i'm not insincere, a cheater, a caretaker, ,etc.... brought even more angst to someone who just wasn't satisfied with me or who i am or how i live. Of course the AP/Avoidant dynamic takes over in such a situation. An unhappy person is an unhappy person, no matter where they are or who they are with. A person who is empty inside has nothing to offer others. This is true wether the person is AP or avoidant. I am commenting because you wrote the post pondering the subject, and my input is that as a former partner of Ap individuals, i would say that the discontent and unhappiness is palpable to the partner as much as it is to the AP. it isn't a secret you are able to keep inside yourself, it comes out in words, actions, tone, it's pervasive. Most people get a sense of others, a vibe, an inpression- avoidants may seem aloof or out of touch but often, in my case, it's not that i am not picking up what someone else is putting off, it's that i'm aloof and distant because it doesn't feel good, and i can't change it, and don't want to try. this is my approach to any negativity i sense and can't really work with, in any one that i come into contact with. Not just an AP person. it's kind of a live and let live thing where i don't want someone else controlling my mood and i know i can't control theirs. I know there is plenty to point at in the avoidant reaction to the AP unhappiness - but this post was about the feelings of lack on AP side so i'm just contributing a perspective to that.
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Post by goldilocks on Jul 25, 2018 16:28:15 GMT
not because he did not try to provide those things, because I know he did...but I did not feel them...they did not scratch the surface of my yearning, ache, emptiness even when we had a great time together. It sounds like the glass may be full but you are using to tight a straw and staying thirsty. I wonder what would widen your straw and increase your abilities to take to heart the love that lies before you. Have you ever kept a gratitude/positivity journal?
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 25, 2018 21:51:47 GMT
Hey Juniper and Goldilocks...good insight....I do keep a gratitude journal and am normally a very grateful person....it is not that I don't acknowledge all B has done for me (and others)...but it is persistent feeling of never enough and wanting more...more of a dependency approach rather then a negative outlook approach. And I am going to admit to something I am not so pleased about, but it is there...there is a huge resistance to change this dynamic. It is not the largest part of who I am, but it is there...feeling entitled. Which is just so curious because no one can compensate for what I did not get as a child..yet I think it is possible and that I am owed it. I am fairy certain, as you wisely pointed out Juniper, that B felt that expectation/entitlement/neediness from me and that is why he would disengage/distance etc. So there is definately work in me to address that...and I also have to stop having such unrealistic expectations that another person should take care of me or love me in a way that makes up for what I did not receive. I need to align my view to a more realistic one.
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Post by goldilocks on Jul 25, 2018 22:16:43 GMT
I am glad you are accepting the sense of entitlement within. Seeing the shadow is how we bring it into the light. Would you write a list of things you feel entitled to? Then you can start giving yourself some of these when you can.
For what it is worth, I have faced this issue too; I wanted my mother to make up for what I had lacked in childhood when I was a young adult. Needless to say, that did not make our relationship more harmonious as we could not bring up the past without her resenting that she was expected to compensate for past failings that were due not to ill intent but to lack of self care and boundaries.
No one wants to pay reparations for a past self, let alone for other people. Feeling entitled towards the men you date is very ineffective. It is hard to see the gifts you are actually receiving when you eagerly await a specific hallmark of love.
Some things I once saw as hallmarks I simply give myself, wrapping it if needed. It can be a christmas gift or a romantic breakfast. Other things I hire help for. Again others I put some sweat into. I have lacked safety and serenity in the home as a child, so I indulge in the nice atmosphere I have created for myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 23:13:56 GMT
Hey Juniper and Goldilocks...good insight....I do keep a gratitude journal and am normally a very grateful person....it is not that I don't acknowledge all B has done for me (and others)...but it is persistent feeling of never enough and wanting more...more of a dependency approach rather then a negative outlook approach. And I am going to admit to something I am not so pleased about, but it is there...there is a huge resistance to change this dynamic. It is not the largest part of who I am, but it is there...feeling entitled. Which is just so curious because no one can compensate for what I did not get as a child..yet I think it is possible and that I am owed it. I am fairy certain, as you wisely pointed out Juniper, that B felt that expectation/entitlement/neediness from me and that is why he would disengage/distance etc. So there is definately work in me to address that...and I also have to stop having such unrealistic expectations that another person should take care of me or love me in a way that makes up for what I did not receive. I need to align my view to a more realistic one. trn9 - the word "should" If you take the "should' out of your vocabulary / thoughts, things get easier. What you missed growing up, you have to give to yourself. The biggest thing i learnt is that no-one owes you to make up for what you didn't get - until you grasp / accept that, you cannot move forward. You have to give yourself (the respect) that which you were not given growing up. Learning to start respecting yourself will give you he wings you need to learn to fly.
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