andy
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Post by andy on Aug 20, 2018 22:14:43 GMT
I wonder if the following resonates for anyone of any attachment style?
People with AP tendencies, as we know, can have a hard time accepting that a relationship is really over and can tenaciously hold onto hope for a reunion. Does having some (perhaps superficial or selective) knowledge of attachment theory sometimes reinforce APs' stuckness in moving on in cases where attachment dynamics played a role in the breakup? Does it feed into mindreading? Especially in cases where the ex displayed avoidant tendencies?
I'll explain what I mean with reference to my own situation. My ex broke up with me very suddenly after we engaged in a long-overdue frank conversation about our needs (my need for consistent communication and turn-taking in initiating contact, her need for space, rest and a gentler pace - and I could tell it was intensely anxiety-provoking for her). Two years later, I still haven't let go of the idea that she didn't "really" want to break up with me, that her attachment issues made her do it. So I've created this false separation in my mind between her and her attachment issues, as if attachment issues aren't part and parcel of who we are as human beings. She never really explained the breakup in a way that felt logical to me, so I've been (mis)applying attachment theory to try to make sense of it. And my understanding of DA feeds my belief that she might have acted based on her triggers and not based on a lack of feelings for me. I totally get that even if that's true, it doesn't necessarily mean we can meet each other's needs.
Folks on the boards have been helpful in suggesting various possible paths out of my stuckness with this ex (who's always in my orbit as a friend now - at some distance but remarkably consistent in keeping in touch). I'm still figuring out what to do and want to make the wisest possible use of my understanding of attachment.
Also I'm just curious about whether any other APs have found that info about attachment can be easily misdirected into analyzing, obsessing, etc, and what you do to keep your participation on the boards constructive, if so.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 20, 2018 22:39:22 GMT
Two things I find helpful are:
1. Remembering the relationship was not meeting your needs (it most likely wasn't, if it was an attachment clash that the other person wasn't willing to work through), so it doesn't really matter if the partner "wanted" to end it with you or not. The decision was made and you deserve both to have your (healthy) needs met and to be with someone interested in participating in that.
2. Reading through all the stories of failed pairings on this board that have here's how it turned out updates. They frequently go one of two ways... people not changing, or one partner takes time away to think / do self work then comes back on their own, willing to really step up and choose the relationship. Anything less doesn't seem to work. Whether or not that happens is also totally out of your control.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 20, 2018 22:54:22 GMT
Initially yes...I wanted to believe in the idea that B had issues that I could overcome if I was able to resolve my own AP issues...I think APs in general will look for the hope in whatever way we can find it. I think some people use Myers Briggs, Zodiac signs...whatever will allow the hope to remain that the relationship isn't completely toxic and there is a chance at a reunion. I certainly studied these boards and tried to find an "in". Even my coworker suggested I should be a bit b#tc#y and that B would see me in a new light...but all of it is manipulation...trying to change an outcome either through changing ourselves or understanding the other person or both. I think attachment theory works best when it is used only for self and healing of self.
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andy
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Post by andy on Aug 21, 2018 0:18:39 GMT
Two things I find helpful are: 1. Remembering the relationship was not meeting your needs (it most likely wasn't, if it was an attachment clash that the other person wasn't willing to work through), so it doesn't really matter if the partner "wanted" to end it with you or not. The decision was made and you deserve both to have your (healthy) needs met and to be with someone interested in participating in that. 2. Reading through all the stories of failed pairings on this board that have here's how it turned out updates. They frequently go one of two ways... people not changing, or one partner takes time away to think / do self work then comes back on their own, willing to really step up and choose the relationship. Anything less doesn't seem to work. Whether or not that happens is also totally out of your control. Thanks, alexandra! Re: #1, You're right, it is key to focus on the ways my needs often went unmet and the fact that I deserve to be with a partner who is willing to collaborate with me and work at the relationship. It is a little tricky because my ex is now doing as a friend what she did not do as a girlfriend... responding promptly to texts, taking her turn to make plans. That throws me off, for sure. I figure there's something about the friendship configuration (my lack of expectations?) that makes that work for her. The moving-toward-secure question to ask myself is whether the friendship is working for ME, and if not, what I can do about it. Re: #2, true, I don't want to keep overfunctioning in the relationship. Both people have to put in the work willingly for a relationship to go anywhere. I have been debating whether speaking with her openly about my feelings would be doing more than my proper share of the relational work (a pattern for us in our romantic relationship, I'd say). It is all in the framing, I guess. It would have to have a "here's how I'm feeling and here's what I'm going to do about it" focus. |
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andy
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Post by andy on Aug 21, 2018 0:22:10 GMT
I think attachment theory works best when it is used only for self and healing of self. So much this, tnr9! Thanks for that seriously excellent guideline. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 1:31:36 GMT
I think attachment theory works best when it is used only for self and healing of self. So much this, tnr9! Thanks for that seriously excellent guideline. 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 |
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Post by epicgum on Aug 21, 2018 2:15:18 GMT
Two things I find helpful are: 1. Remembering the relationship was not meeting your needs (it most likely wasn't, if it was an attachment clash that the other person wasn't willing to work through), so it doesn't really matter if the partner "wanted" to end it with you or not. The decision was made and you deserve both to have your (healthy) needs met and to be with someone interested in participating in that. 2. Reading through all the stories of failed pairings on this board that have here's how it turned out updates. They frequently go one of two ways... people not changing, or one partner takes time away to think / do self work then comes back on their own, willing to really step up and choose the relationship. Anything less doesn't seem to work. Whether or not that happens is also totally out of your control. Thanks, alexandra! Re: #1, You're right, it is key to focus on the ways my needs often went unmet and the fact that I deserve to be with a partner who is willing to collaborate with me and work at the relationship. It is a little tricky because my ex is now doing as a friend what she did not do as a girlfriend... responding promptly to texts, taking her turn to make plans. That throws me off, for sure. I figure there's something about the friendship configuration (my lack of expectations?) that makes that work for her. The moving-toward-secure question to ask myself is whether the friendship is working for ME, and if not, what I can do about it. Re: #2, true, I don't want to keep overfunctioning in the relationship. Both people have to put in the work willingly for a relationship to go anywhere. I have been debating whether speaking with her openly about my feelings would be doing more than my proper share of the relational work (a pattern for us in our romantic relationship, I'd say). It is all in the framing, I guess. It would have to have a "here's how I'm feeling and here's what I'm going to do about it" focus. It makes sense that she is doing better with you as her friend because the threat of intimacy/connection is no longer there, so she doesn't need to hide from you any more. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 3:12:43 GMT
i found more intimacy in friendship because i felt more at ease.
the standard "dating reality" is alien to me as a dismissive.
i can't be what the dating blogs and articles say i'm supposed to be . i can't.
my whole intimate relationship has been framed as a friendship.
that's one of my quirks.
and thankfully, my partner's also.
we are simpatico.
and very intimate.
that came with awareness and work.
i'm not saying that's what is going on.
i'm just giving another perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 3:44:53 GMT
i think DA men in the dating pool are very misunderstood.
i think DA women in the dating pool are very very very misunderstood.
when i tried to learn about dating all the advice out there completely alienated me. i tried hard to do it "right" but couldn't. i guess it's my nervous system. my deactivation.
my lack of skills.
some people get closer with dating and intimacy grows.
i deactivated constantly.
wasn't able to be genuine.
it drove me away from dating time and time again.
it's very discouraging to be a DA woman when trying to build a meaningful something.
there's little guidance , little understanding.
we are wired different, not like the other girls.
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andy
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Post by andy on Aug 21, 2018 6:14:47 GMT
I hear what you're saying about misunderstood and unrecognized styles of connection, juniper. I'm an unconventional person and strongly believe in challenging assumptions about what relationships can/should look like. I have some intimate and committed friends who are family to me, and I've always disliked the phrase "just friends" because of the way it devalues those connections. In one way, I do feel closer to my ex now than I did when we were dating, as there's an easier and more relaxed vibe on both sides. Okay, I'm still nowhere near as relaxed with her as I am with other friends, but I'm stressing much less than I did back when we were dating (believe it or not 😂). For months after we reconnected, I made fast progress in increasing my contentment with and acceptance of the friendship thing. It's only recently that I've found myself moving backwards in fantasizing often about a closer connection. I'm not sure why my recovery has stopped and kind of done a mini U-turn. It could have to do with some unrelated hard stuff going on in my life. Thinking about the ex does make for a very distracting distraction. The fact that the relationship I'm dealing with now is a friendship and not a dating situation doesn't change my fundamental responsibility to myself as a human and as a kinda (contextual) AP: to figure out whether I'm getting hurt or stuck, and *IF* I am, to remove myself from harm's way (if removing the source of the harm isn't possible). That much is clear even if the details aren't yet. Thanks again, everybody! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:14:55 GMT
I hear what you're saying about misunderstood and unrecognized styles of connection, juniper. I'm an unconventional person and strongly believe in challenging assumptions about what relationships can/should look like. I have some intimate and committed friends who are family to me, and I've always disliked the phrase "just friends" because of the way it devalues those connections. In one way, I do feel closer to my ex now than I did when we were dating, as there's an easier and more relaxed vibe on both sides. Okay, I'm still nowhere near as relaxed with her as I am with other friends, but I'm stressing much less than I did back when we were dating (believe it or not 😂). For months after we reconnected, I made fast progress in increasing my contentment with and acceptance of the friendship thing. It's only recently that I've found myself moving backwards in fantasizing often about a closer connection. I'm not sure why my recovery has stopped and kind of done a mini U-turn. It could have to do with some unrelated hard stuff going on in my life. Thinking about the ex does make for a very distracting distraction. The fact that the relationship I'm dealing with now is a friendship and not a dating situation doesn't change my fundamental responsibility to myself as a human and as a kinda (contextual) AP: to figure out whether I'm getting hurt or stuck, and *IF* I am, to remove myself from harm's way (if removing the source of the harm isn't possible). That much is clear even if the details aren't yet. Thanks again, everybody! absolutely, andy! the repair of the SELF, in my opinion, is the correct use and application of attachment theory. frequently, AP do use the knowledge to further manipulate themselves into a subordinate position, a codependent position, in a desperate attempt to retain the relationship. this does nothing to foster emotional health and availability, but further cripples an individual. i totally agree that being authentic with your feelings should not be transactional. instead, it should just be revealing and empowering, a step in the direction of emotional honesty and integrity, instead of dancing to someone else's tune. to quash your feelings and needs is to enable the dysfunction, in both parties. somethings got to give!!!! and illusions and hiding should be the first to go. in my opinion. |
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Post by andy on Aug 21, 2018 14:39:49 GMT
"i totally agree that being authentic with your feelings should not be transactional." Well put, juniper! In the past my authentic communication was partly a bid for her to reciprocate. Is getting rid of the transactional and unhealthy aspect a matter of what I say, how I feel, or both? What are some strategies for steering clear of the transactional dynamic? She might view any emotional disclosure from me as manipulative no matter what I'm going for with it, but I get that the whole point is for me to realize that I can't control what she thinks (or know what she thinks unless she chooses to tell me) and certainly can't control what she does, and nor would I want to. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 14:53:31 GMT
"i totally agree that being authentic with your feelings should not be transactional." Well put, juniper ! In the past my authentic communication was partly a bid for her to reciprocate. Is getting rid of the transactional and unhealthy aspect a matter of what I say, how I feel, or both? What are some strategies for steering clear of the transactional dynamic? She might view any emotional disclosure from me as manipulative no matter what I'm going for with it, but I get that the whole point is for me to realize that I can't control what she thinks (or know what she thinks unless she chooses to tell me) and certainly can't control what she does, and nor would I want to. here's my take: who cares what she thinks? 😄 im not coming from a dickish place with that. its just a radical shift away from transactional relating. once i knew what i felt, thought, needed, and wouldn't settle for, i approached my partner with the news and it was a Press Release. Informational only. i really was so aligned with my truth, that his was none of my business unless and until he made it so. no more guessing. no strategizing. no conditional revelations. this is me, take it or leave it, i'm committed to myself and my authenticity and if you can't join me, with yours, we are mismatched. end of. it was a process of each of us advancing our authentic selves, and ultimately, we were able to align. if we hadn't been able to, i was at least aligned with myself, and determined to find the intimate relationship i craved. that meant being very attuned to me, and letting who i am, authentically, be the attraction. i had faith that i could do it, if i was diligent and unflinchingly honest with myself and him. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 14:55:33 GMT
it doesn't have to be graceful, so much as it has to be honest.
that's the best i could do.
turns out we are good for each other. but we both had to become our best and bravest selves to bring that to be.
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andy
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Post by andy on Aug 21, 2018 15:49:07 GMT
Sounds like you think it's more a matter of how I feel than what I say. Definitely good to move away from the perfectionism and nitpicking of my own communication, word choice, emphasis etc. I have thought maybe the focus of any conversation should be my intention to take a step back from the friendship and claim some space for myself if I determine that's what is necessary - that the component of my own self-responsibility and action intention should be emphasized. Sounds like you think I could lead with a plain ackowledgement of feelings, which seems way riskier to me. It would leave the conversation open-ended for her. If I just announce immediately I'm stepping back, it may feel safer as I'm pre-empting a response from her that could feel like yet another rejection to me. But as leavethelighton pointed out in an earlier thread, there's no need for me to keep making myself vulnerable repeatedly if she's not joining me in that. On the other hand, juniper, maybe what you're saying is it could be empowering to me to realize I can take care of myself and ultimately feel okay whatever comes of the vulnerable disclosure. Interesting to hear what your own experience has been, with its many differences (and several similarities) to mine. Thanks for being generous with your story, juniper. |
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