andy
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Post by andy on Sept 17, 2018 1:15:02 GMT
Came across this article by Maria Popova that isn't about attachment but could be! www.brainpickings.org/2018/09/03/rilke-love-marriage/It's about the poet Rainer Maria Rilke's philosophy of love, which is pretty far from the mainstream romantic ideal of total union with the other... a challenging and fresh perspective for anxious types, I suspect. From the introduction: "Our paradoxical longing for intimacy and independence is a diamagnetic force — it pulls us toward togetherness and simultaneously repels us from it with a mighty magnet that, if unskillfully handled, can rupture a relationship and break a heart. Under this unforgiving magnetism, it becomes an act of superhuman strength and self-transcendence to give space to the other when all one wants is closeness. And yet this difficult act may be the very thing — perhaps the only thing — that saves the relationship over and over." Quoting Rilke: "It is a question in marriage, to my feeling, not of creating a quick community of spirit by tearing down and destroying all boundaries, but rather a good marriage is that in which each appoints the other guardian of his solitude, and shows him this confidence, the greatest in his power to bestow. A togetherness between two people is an impossibility, and where it seems, nevertheless, to exist, it is a narrowing, a reciprocal agreement which robs either one party or both of his fullest freedom and development. But, once the realization is accepted that even between the closest human beings infinite distances continue to exist, a wonderful living side by side can grow up, if they succeed in loving the distance between them which makes it possible for each to see the other whole and against a wide sky!" While the passage above does not capture all the dimensions of love as I understand it, its poetic beauty inspires me to seek the kind of love that honours each person's autonomy and wholeness. "To see the other whole and against a wide sky!" 😍 Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 1:55:52 GMT
i love this so much, it feels natural to me. it's just beautiful.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 17, 2018 2:38:33 GMT
Hmmm...this is definately a very different perspective...and I would say that there is room for this perspective..but also room for others as well. I know people who are quite content in closeness, I know people who are quite content in space...as such, I would not judge this as right or wrong..but simply one of many avenues which one can consider for a successful relationship.
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 18, 2018 4:06:36 GMT
Hmmm...this is definately a very different perspective...and I would say that there is room for this perspective..but also room for others as well. I know people who are quite content in closeness, I know people who are quite content in space...as such, I would not judge this as right or wrong..but simply one of many avenues which one can consider for a successful relationship. I agree, tnr9! To me, honoring another person's autonomy is only one side of love. But it is a side that doesn't get much attention in mainstream culture, so it is interesting to see it addressed here so... well, lovingly! And also, as you rightly point out, this kind of love would not be nourishing to everyone. In other words, to 'love' certain people this way would actually be to miss out on loving them. People can really only be loved on their own terms, as they truly are. The quotations from Rilke seem very universalizing. Maybe he was a bit on the avoidant side? It is wonderful to see people on the boards speaking out in support of their own vision of love and not embracing models of love that aren't true to them and their values. First the theory and next the practice for us, hey? ♡
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Post by leavethelighton on Sept 19, 2018 23:53:03 GMT
I wonder what Rilke's attachment style would be/was. Hmmm.
I don't think the above quotes are necessarily avoidant. They could be an AP coping with and compensating for the intensity of being AP.
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Post by lilyg on Sept 20, 2018 8:02:30 GMT
I really like it Yes, it seems like avoidant but maybe converted into somewhat secure? As he talks about happiness in a relationship between two very well-built individuals. I can see it is a concept that society doesn't talk much about it. I guess it does in the form, maybe, of being 'independent' and 'happy with yourself' before you can be in a relationship. But romance and couples are usually viewed as a shared life, instead of two shared lives. " There are such relationships which must be a very great, almost unbearable happiness, but they can occur only between very rich natures and between those who, each for himself, are richly ordered and composed; they can unite only two wide, deep, individual worlds." On a side note, I love how this is linked with this small post about 'The Prophet': www.brainpickings.org/2016/09/27/kahlil-gibran-the-prophet-love-marriage/It's the first 'serious' book I read, my mom gave it to me as a gift and I hold it dear in my heart Healthy Interdependence: Let there be spaces in your togetherness, And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another but make not a bond of love: Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. Fill each other’s cup but drink not from one cup. Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf. Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone, Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other’s keeping. For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts. And stand together, yet not too near together: For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other’s shadow.
Understanding attachment and necessary growth within relationships: No human relation gives one possession in another—every two souls are absolutely different. In friendship or in love, the two side by side raise hands together to find what one cannot reach alone.Courage and uncertainty while in love: www.brainpickings.org/2018/07/13/kahlil-gibran-prophet-love/To know the pain of too much tenderness. To be wounded by your own understanding of love; And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
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