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Post by Rookie on Nov 4, 2018 6:40:59 GMT
Reading these threads has been therapeutic and really valuable for me to understand my AP behaviors and really look at self and what my participation in this AP/DA dance is, and even with all that self awareness, the hope that every interaction with my DA will be different is crazy talk and I can't get myself out of it. So my story goes like this -
Was in a long distance relationship with the DA till mid Feb this year, and he said that he can't do a relationship in person when I'm back and we broke up. My AP activation was at it's peak with calls and texts when my ex DA (rightly so) decided that he needs to go NC and cut me off completely. In hindsight I needed him to do that for me because I couldn't get my emotions under control. I started letting go of my obsessive thoughts little by little and I began my healing journey or so I thought. I returned back to my country in August and we both met the very next day, where he stated that he's moved on from wanting a relationship but would like to stay friends. I said that seeing him did bring back some feelings, so maybe that's not the best idea. Later that month we found ourselves out for work in a different city one day and met for a drink and things got intimate. That's where all the 'healing' I thought I'd done came crashing down. Even though we decided it was just sex, every time we got intimate after that, I saw myself repeating a pattern where I would exaggerate some situation to keep the closeness going which he didn't want to, so I would spend the whole week triggered, then we would meet over the weekend, get intimate, I would get my reinforcement and be calm for a few days and repeat.Even though he said it was just sex, I would get texts like I have nobody to talk to, am I always going to be alone. Or I know we shouldn't talk, but I think about you(all of the vulnerability only showed up when he was drinking) and these thoughts/texts actions disappear when he is sober.
Cut to last time before we got intimate, we decided to have a conversation and I told him that his withdrawal the next day and for days to follow, really triggers me and I don't know what to do. He replied that he likes me and there is something he feels but he can't be in a relationship. All my brain heard is 'he likes me'... and back to it we were. Yesterday while responding to his withdrawal and me wanting closeness, a yelling match ensued where he yelled that he wants me to understand that' he doesn't like me, he doesn't care for me and he never wishes to see me again.' Hearing this out loud caused a different kind of pain and I feel like I've gone back to the first day of the real breakup. I'm stuck in the cycle of beating myself up, thinking it's all my fault that this is happening all over again.
Guess I'm looking to hear that I didn't do this to myself and he was as responsible for this toxicity. Looking for any kind of perspective or insight that will make me really start healing or looking at myself in a way I don't know how. If none of this makes sense, it's because its all blurry midst the tears.
Healing hugs to all.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 4, 2018 11:29:40 GMT
Reading these threads has been therapeutic and really valuable for me to understand my AP behaviors and really look at self and what my participation in this AP/DA dance is, and even with all that self awareness, the hope that every interaction with my DA will be different is crazy talk and I can't get myself out of it. So my story goes like this - Was in a long distance relationship with the DA till mid Feb this year, and he said that he can't do a relationship in person when I'm back and we broke up. My AP activation was at it's peak with calls and texts when my ex DA (rightly so) decided that he needs to go NC and cut me off completely. In hindsight I needed him to do that for me because I couldn't get my emotions under control. I started letting go of my obsessive thoughts little by little and I began my healing journey or so I thought. I returned back to my country in August and we both met the very next day, where he stated that he's moved on from wanting a relationship but would like to stay friends. I said that seeing him did bring back some feelings, so maybe that's not the best idea. Later that month we found ourselves out for work in a different city one day and met for a drink and things got intimate. That's where all the 'healing' I thought I'd done came crashing down. Even though we decided it was just sex, every time we got intimate after that, I saw myself repeating a pattern where I would exaggerate some situation to keep the closeness going which he didn't want to, so I would spend the whole week triggered, then we would meet over the weekend, get intimate, I would get my reinforcement and be calm for a few days and repeat.Even though he said it was just sex, I would get texts like I have nobody to talk to, am I always going to be alone. Or I know we shouldn't talk, but I think about you(all of the vulnerability only showed up when he was drinking) and these thoughts/texts actions disappear when he is sober. Cut to last time before we got intimate, we decided to have a conversation and I told him that his withdrawal the next day and for days to follow, really triggers me and I don't know what to do. He replied that he likes me and there is something he feels but he can't be in a relationship. All my brain heard is 'he likes me'... and back to it we were. Yesterday while responding to his withdrawal and me wanting closeness, a yelling match ensued where he yelled that he wants me to understand that' he doesn't like me, he doesn't care for me and he never wishes to see me again.' Hearing this out loud caused a different kind of pain and I feel like I've gone back to the first day of the real breakup. I'm stuck in the cycle of beating myself up, thinking it's all my fault that this is happening all over again. Guess I'm looking to hear that I didn't do this to myself and he was as responsible for this toxicity. Looking for any kind of perspective or insight that will make me really start healing or looking at myself in a way I don't know how. If none of this makes sense, it's because its all blurry midst the tears. Healing hugs to all. Hi Ruki and welcome. This sounds like an immensely painful situation and you must be in the midst of real deep hurt. Despite this, it's amazing that you can write so clearly about the dynamic and recognise the delusion from your side that has kept you hooked into something that's causing so much pain. What nobody here will and should do, is tell you what you want to hear - that's not useful, supportive or caring - from what you've written you do recognise that to keep this relationship going has required dysfunction on both sides - and that you are both responsible. Not purposefully but what's happened is often the result of a coupling between two people with unresolved hurts. This suffering has the potential to be the very start of your healing process - hard as it may feel at the moment. How do things stand between the two of you at the moment? It must be very hard to think clearly amidst the hurt, hormones, attraction, physical connection etc - how could you take a little step to help yourself right now in the present? Rome wasn't built in a day and this is going to be a long journey - you have already started in a small way by posting here and being open to input from other people, which is great. Please keep posting if you find it helpful - there are some very wise souls on here to support you along the way.
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Post by Rookie on Nov 4, 2018 11:50:24 GMT
Thank you so much, lilos. Virtual hugs help. My nervous system was deeply triggered after hearing him say that he doesn't care for me and I went on this over the top reaction of voicing very feeling I'm feeling and how I need him to forgive me to feel less heavy. With his boundaries clear in place and him telling me lots of times that my feelings are not something he wants to deal with, he blocked me everywhere. I'm a little thankful, because now I can stop embarrassing myself but also feeling like a this has happened before and I haven't evolved even a little. So I'm walking away but with my head bowed down in shame. Oh I am sending hugs to you as that story brings back so many memories for me. My situation is quite different now so many years on the other side of things but when I read that I can remember all the mixed messages I was given until one day I got a very very clear one. And I blamed him and I made him the bad one and I called him worthless and small and I hated him all to cover up how much shame and embarrassment and worthlessness and loss I felt at my role in things. In the end- none of that helped me. No one side is to blame in this dance. You play your part. He plays his. Every time. until someone can’t take the pain anymore and calls it or does something unforgivable. Now you have the chance to work on you and why do you play your part. You can’t know him unless he shares it with you but now you can know yourself. You can learn to love yourself enough to recognize that you are worth more than a person who, even if they want to be with you somewhere inside them, can’t. And that that is hurting you and you can’t be in that relationship even if you want to. They won’t change because you want them too- they have to want to and they may not be there yet. Maybe one day they will be and they will look at the destruction they caused with you when they left. You can’t change until you are ready but if you are- you can look at the destruction you cause by staying when you should be leaving. Don’t blame yourself- you are only human and want to love and be loved like everyone else. You want it in a different way than he can give and that’s ok. But do look at it with honesty and compassion for yourself as a person who is hurt and making poor choices. You can make different ones. Take responsibility for yourself- recognize that this isn’t working for you and you walk away. You set your boundary and you keep it. Even when it hurts to do it. |
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Post by Rookie on Nov 4, 2018 12:02:10 GMT
Reading these threads has been therapeutic and really valuable for me to understand my AP behaviors and really look at self and what my participation in this AP/DA dance is, and even with all that self awareness, the hope that every interaction with my DA will be different is crazy talk and I can't get myself out of it. So my story goes like this - Was in a long distance relationship with the DA till mid Feb this year, and he said that he can't do a relationship in person when I'm back and we broke up. My AP activation was at it's peak with calls and texts when my ex DA (rightly so) decided that he needs to go NC and cut me off completely. In hindsight I needed him to do that for me because I couldn't get my emotions under control. I started letting go of my obsessive thoughts little by little and I began my healing journey or so I thought. I returned back to my country in August and we both met the very next day, where he stated that he's moved on from wanting a relationship but would like to stay friends. I said that seeing him did bring back some feelings, so maybe that's not the best idea. Later that month we found ourselves out for work in a different city one day and met for a drink and things got intimate. That's where all the 'healing' I thought I'd done came crashing down. Even though we decided it was just sex, every time we got intimate after that, I saw myself repeating a pattern where I would exaggerate some situation to keep the closeness going which he didn't want to, so I would spend the whole week triggered, then we would meet over the weekend, get intimate, I would get my reinforcement and be calm for a few days and repeat.Even though he said it was just sex, I would get texts like I have nobody to talk to, am I always going to be alone. Or I know we shouldn't talk, but I think about you(all of the vulnerability only showed up when he was drinking) and these thoughts/texts actions disappear when he is sober. Cut to last time before we got intimate, we decided to have a conversation and I told him that his withdrawal the next day and for days to follow, really triggers me and I don't know what to do. He replied that he likes me and there is something he feels but he can't be in a relationship. All my brain heard is 'he likes me'... and back to it we were. Yesterday while responding to his withdrawal and me wanting closeness, a yelling match ensued where he yelled that he wants me to understand that' he doesn't like me, he doesn't care for me and he never wishes to see me again.' Hearing this out loud caused a different kind of pain and I feel like I've gone back to the first day of the real breakup. I'm stuck in the cycle of beating myself up, thinking it's all my fault that this is happening all over again. Guess I'm looking to hear that I didn't do this to myself and he was as responsible for this toxicity. Looking for any kind of perspective or insight that will make me really start healing or looking at myself in a way I don't know how. If none of this makes sense, it's because its all blurry midst the tears. Healing hugs to all. Hi Ruki and welcome. This sounds like an immensely painful situation and you must be in the midst of real deep hurt. Despite this, it's amazing that you can write so clearly about the dynamic and recognise the delusion from your side that has kept you hooked into something that's causing so much pain. What nobody here will and should do, is tell you what you want to hear - that's not useful, supportive or caring - from what you've written you do recognise that to keep this relationship going has required dysfunction on both sides - and that you are both responsible. Not purposefully but what's happened is often the result of a coupling between two people with unresolved hurts. This suffering has the potential to be the very start of your healing process - hard as it may feel at the moment. How do things stand between the two of you at the moment? It must be very hard to think clearly amidst the hurt, hormones, attraction, physical connection etc - how could you take a little step to help yourself right now in the present? Rome wasn't built in a day and this is going to be a long journey - you have already started in a small way by posting here and being open to input from other people, which is great. Please keep posting if you find it helpful - there are some very wise souls on here to support you along the way.
I write clearly about the dynamic only because of this forum and reading posts that have made me realize my part in dysfunction. Hearing my attachment figure tell me that he doesn't care for me was very very very triggering and something I couldn't control, even after trying to meditate and I went full blown AP on him with texts and unanswered calls asking for forgiveness for wanting closeness. He didn't respond to anything an blocked me everywhere. Exactly what happened when we broke up. I couldn't respect the boundaries that he put in place, but I think (I don't know) that he's coming from a place where he wants me to believe it's all my fault when it really isn't. According to him the fact that he clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship but still sent mixed signals gets him off the hook. And I believe that, which I think is unfair.I want to try and be compassionate to myself and stop drowning in shame and guilt. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 4, 2018 12:23:44 GMT
Hi Ruki and welcome. This sounds like an immensely painful situation and you must be in the midst of real deep hurt. Despite this, it's amazing that you can write so clearly about the dynamic and recognise the delusion from your side that has kept you hooked into something that's causing so much pain. What nobody here will and should do, is tell you what you want to hear - that's not useful, supportive or caring - from what you've written you do recognise that to keep this relationship going has required dysfunction on both sides - and that you are both responsible. Not purposefully but what's happened is often the result of a coupling between two people with unresolved hurts. This suffering has the potential to be the very start of your healing process - hard as it may feel at the moment. How do things stand between the two of you at the moment? It must be very hard to think clearly amidst the hurt, hormones, attraction, physical connection etc - how could you take a little step to help yourself right now in the present? Rome wasn't built in a day and this is going to be a long journey - you have already started in a small way by posting here and being open to input from other people, which is great. Please keep posting if you find it helpful - there are some very wise souls on here to support you along the way.
I write clearly about the dynamic only because of this forum and reading posts that have made me realize my part in dysfunction. Hearing my attachment figure tell me that he doesn't care for me was very very very triggering and something I couldn't control, even after trying to meditate and I went full blown AP on him with texts and unanswered calls asking for forgiveness for wanting closeness. He didn't respond to anything an blocked me everywhere. Exactly what happened when we broke up. I couldn't respect the boundaries that he put in place, but I think (I don't know) that he's coming from a place where he wants me to believe it's all my fault when it really isn't. According to him the fact that he clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship but still sent mixed signals gets him off the hook. And I believe that, which I think is unfair.I want to try and be compassionate to myself and stop drowning in shame and guilt. @ruki.....I know this perspective of shame and guilt intimately. What helps me with shame is to remind myself that I get to choose who has influence over how I feel towards myself and if someone does not have my best interest in mind (such as a friend who has stood by me through many trials) then I want to hold their opinion outside of myself. One thing that can help create that distance is to de personalize the other person's comment by saying "Thank you for sharing, but I don't have to let that comment in". Especially as an individual who craves validation from people we attach to...it can be very challenging to navigate not allowing a comment in. Loving yourself dispite his statements and reactions to you is a very important tool. Brene Brown has an amazing TED talk on shame. Hang in there. Hugs. |
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 4, 2018 13:11:56 GMT
Becoming aware is huge, be proud of that even though you are down about it right now.  It takes two to tango even if hes in total denial about it. You're owning it and hes not so thats a hard pill to swallow. You cant change his denial and have to accept that part. Its hard and it would be hard for anyone swallowing that pill... And know its Huge you are letting go for your own mental health not staying trapped in the dance. Its a hard dance to get out of. Im a secure type and I stayed in that dance for far too long myself. Many AP types keep themselves trapped by trying to stay friends with them, etc. You're walking, that is healthy. Hang in there! |
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 4, 2018 13:58:58 GMT
I write clearly about the dynamic only because of this forum and reading posts that have made me realize my part in dysfunction. Hearing my attachment figure tell me that he doesn't care for me was very very very triggering and something I couldn't control, even after trying to meditate and I went full blown AP on him with texts and unanswered calls asking for forgiveness for wanting closeness. He didn't respond to anything an blocked me everywhere. Exactly what happened when we broke up. I couldn't respect the boundaries that he put in place, but I think (I don't know) that he's coming from a place where he wants me to believe it's all my fault when it really isn't. According to him the fact that he clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship but still sent mixed signals gets him off the hook. And I believe that, which I think is unfair.I want to try and be compassionate to myself and stop drowning in shame and guilt. @ruki.....I know this perspective of shame and guilt intimately. What helps me with shame is to remind myself that I get to choose who has influence over how I feel towards myself and if someone does not have my best interest in mind (such as a friend who has stood by me through many trials) then I want to hold their opinion outside of myself. One thing that can help create that distance is to de personalize the other person's comment by saying "Thank you for sharing, but I don't have to let that comment in". Especially as an individual who craves validation from people we attach to...it can be very challenging to navigate not allowing a comment in. Loving yourself dispite his statements and reactions to you is a very important tool. Brene Brown has an amazing TED talk on shame. Hang in there. Hugs. Brene browns TED talks on vulnerability and Shame changed my life!!!! Her books “braving the wilderness” and “raising strong” were also very influential for me. She talks a lot about trust and personal responsibility. And part of that for me was not just how to build trust with other people but to build trust in myself. So important. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 4, 2018 14:53:51 GMT
@ruki.....I know this perspective of shame and guilt intimately. What helps me with shame is to remind myself that I get to choose who has influence over how I feel towards myself and if someone does not have my best interest in mind (such as a friend who has stood by me through many trials) then I want to hold their opinion outside of myself. One thing that can help create that distance is to de personalize the other person's comment by saying "Thank you for sharing, but I don't have to let that comment in". Especially as an individual who craves validation from people we attach to...it can be very challenging to navigate not allowing a comment in. Loving yourself dispite his statements and reactions to you is a very important tool. Brene Brown has an amazing TED talk on shame. Hang in there. Hugs. Brene browns TED talks on vulnerability and Shame changed my life!!!! Her books “braving the wilderness” and “raising strong” were also very influential for me. She talks a lot about trust and personal responsibility. And part of that for me was not just how to build trust with other people but to build trust in myself. So important. Hi lilos- are those TED talks found on YouTube? |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 4, 2018 15:05:06 GMT
Brene browns TED talks on vulnerability and Shame changed my life!!!! Her books “braving the wilderness” and “raising strong” were also very influential for me. She talks a lot about trust and personal responsibility. And part of that for me was not just how to build trust with other people but to build trust in myself. So important. Hi lilos- are those TED talks found on YouTube? Yes they are...just search for Brene brown on YouTube. Her books are incredible as well...check them out at your local library. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 15:21:23 GMT
hi Ruki, i'm off to my day but saw your post and wanted to pop in real quick to encourage you.
i can't lift the burden of AP self-blame off you, but i'm glad you're questioning it!
it's absolutely not all down to you.
no way!!!
You have hurts that you're looking to have soothed by someone unable to love you the way you deserve to be loved. it's that simple, to me. NO BLAME.
It's all just brokenness between two wounded partners- the blind leading the blind, nobody has their bearings or a good compass. people are lost and hurting. that's all.
your unhealthy behaviors are coping mechanisms you developed when you were young.
they stayed in place, they do for all of us, until we reach the point in life where we can understand and care about how to adjust and learn new ways of loving ourselves and others.
the beautiful thing is, there is hope, healing is possible.
there are so many AP and FA and a small sprinkling of DA here who are living examples of it. we've all banded together to help support each other, and the power of that is evidenced daily on these boards.
so, anyway- i have to run but i wasn't going to leave this without a hug. (((((ruki)))))
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 15:24:36 GMT
Shame is the enemy.
when it appears see it as such.
set yourself against it, don't lay down for it.
you'll learn how over time.
but don't forget, shame exudes from the wound and it's toxic and Does. Not. Belong. To. You.
don't harbor it. it has to go.
that's a process. but know who your enemy is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 15:41:28 GMT
Ahhh Brene! <3 Daring Greatly is my favourite book of all time, along with Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. They are my favourite people! Brene has some awesome long form interviews on Youtube - the ones with Chase Jarvis are awesome, and the ones with Marie Forleo. If you guys have the time, the sermon she did at the Washington National Cathedral made me cry: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndP1XDskXHYThis is my favourite talk of hers: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXSjc-pbXk4 |
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 4, 2018 15:45:52 GMT
Brene browns TED talks on vulnerability and Shame changed my life!!!! Her books “braving the wilderness” and “raising strong” were also very influential for me. She talks a lot about trust and personal responsibility. And part of that for me was not just how to build trust with other people but to build trust in myself. So important. Hi lilos- are those TED talks found on YouTube? I don’t know if that link will work. If not you can google it. She really gives some amazing perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 16:03:54 GMT
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Post by Rookie on Nov 4, 2018 16:10:39 GMT
I've seen Brene's talk on vulnerability, but not on shame. Thank you for letting me know. The shame here is self inflicted and not coming from outside at all. If my reading of my DA ex is correct (going by experience) he is going to forget about my AP reactions or avoid any feelings related to the events in past 2 days and easily put me in a box that he won't open till he is at a safe distance some months away and I will read this as narrative that he hates me. But in reality I know that he won't spend his energy on hate as well. So the shame comes from being aware but still not able to evolve or react in a different way, being stuck in a narrative that I know is a story I made up in my head. Hugs to you as well <3 I write clearly about the dynamic only because of this forum and reading posts that have made me realize my part in dysfunction. Hearing my attachment figure tell me that he doesn't care for me was very very very triggering and something I couldn't control, even after trying to meditate and I went full blown AP on him with texts and unanswered calls asking for forgiveness for wanting closeness. He didn't respond to anything an blocked me everywhere. Exactly what happened when we broke up. I couldn't respect the boundaries that he put in place, but I think (I don't know) that he's coming from a place where he wants me to believe it's all my fault when it really isn't. According to him the fact that he clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship but still sent mixed signals gets him off the hook. And I believe that, which I think is unfair.I want to try and be compassionate to myself and stop drowning in shame and guilt. @ruki.....I know this perspective of shame and guilt intimately. What helps me with shame is to remind myself that I get to choose who has influence over how I feel towards myself and if someone does not have my best interest in mind (such as a friend who has stood by me through many trials) then I want to hold their opinion outside of myself. One thing that can help create that distance is to de personalize the other person's comment by saying "Thank you for sharing, but I don't have to let that comment in". Especially as an individual who craves validation from people we attach to...it can be very challenging to navigate not allowing a comment in. Loving yourself dispite his statements and reactions to you is a very important tool. Brene Brown has an amazing TED talk on shame. Hang in there. Hugs. |
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It takes two to tango even if hes in total denial about it. You're owning it and hes not so thats a hard pill to swallow. You cant change his denial and have to accept that part. Its hard and it would be hard for anyone swallowing that pill...