|
|
Post by faithopelove on Nov 15, 2018 21:44:50 GMT
Since you’re referencing me, I’ll interject...It’s totally reasonable that I judged him as a disgusting and repulsive creep! My body language was apparent- I turned my head away in the end, in the car I used my pocketbook as a barrier and at other times I removed my hand from him or pushed his hand away. So although I did not use words to express myself verbally, I was more than clear with my body language and that’s why he questioned me at the end. The guy was obviously just looking to hook up and when he saw he didn’t get anywhere with me, he was done. That was the only thing I agreed with, as I was done too. As far as expectations I already declined his invitation for our first date to be at his place, and instead insisted that we go out. The fact I suggested meeting in public should have told him that I wasn’t just looking for casual hook up that night...either way, when you push someone’s hand away AND turn away AND use objects as barriers, I think you have to be an ignorant idiot not to get the picture!!! And that I find repulsive!! @faithhopelove - respectfully, I think that you are confusing responses to other points, as both myself and @christie were defending epicgum, who had responded with his view of your post...not defending the person who upset you. “As for OP's, I agree she shouldn't be touched that way if she wasn't feeling comfortable with it but all we know is that she didn't say she was (moreover the only time she rejected it "he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away.., " he understood it's unwanted and ask her to confirm".and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? " and she denied- "I just said, oh, no" and jumped into my car. ) Once again, I don't think it is ok, I'm also pretty much aware that some people FREEZE in such situation, but don't you think that guy might have thought they're on the same page? He clearly wanted a hook up so sexual behavior isn't something shocking if he thought she's receptive. Is it ok to judge him as a disgusting creep?” Above. You’re directly addressing me here. Not Epic |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 21:54:37 GMT
You're using sarcasm to be passive aggressive towards others. You assumed what he meant, asked for no explanations. The fact that someone wants to show you a different perspective, it doesn't mean they suddenly support sexual harassment. I, at least, understood it differently. Maybe I misunderstood him too. I don't know. But I think he was focusing on a more intuitive, bigger picture. He's against dehumanization of a person (and if you dehumanize someone it's as low a human being can get, there's nothing good about it and in history it led to awful actions, I think one should strive to avoid it). As for OP's, I agree she shouldn't be touched that way if she wasn't feeling comfortable with it but all we know is that she didn't say she was (moreover the only time she rejected it "he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away.., " he understood it's unwanted and ask her to confirm" .and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? " and she denied- "I just said, oh, no" and jumped into my car. ) Once again, I don't think it is ok, I'm also pretty much aware that some people FREEZE in such situation, but don't you think that guy might have thought they're on the same page? He clearly wanted a hook up so sexual behavior isn't something shocking if he thought she's receptive. Is it ok to judge him as a disgusting creep? In such case I don't think epicgum should be attacked for point this out. And FWIW, I had a friend (female) who once was offended by a guy who wanted to take it slow even though she was throwing herself at him on the first date. Later she ruled he must be gay. Now, 1) she's less likely be judged as disgusting because she is a she, even if the guy was uncomfortable with it (maybe we should assume that no guy would be uncomfortable with it?) 2) as epicgum said "one person's "too fast" is another person's "too slow" in many things" even though both the OP's guy was too fast, and my friend was too fast- they would have been perfect for each other. You can say "but she would be ok with that, her boundaries are untouched" - the thing is, he might (OR MIGHT NOT) have thought that with OP- once again, boundaries weren't communicated Juniper is using sarcasm in her response bc your remarks are ridiculous and cannot be addressed seriously with common sense intact...it’s just too laughable. That’s the truth. No sarcasm there If your view of my comments is that they are "laughable", and that sarcasm is acceptable even if it leads to forum members deleting their accounts, that is your view. Situations are rarely black & white (which is a very AP thing, BTW)(and this IS the AP section) and the discussion was around different experiences and views of your experience. There's a lot of learning material in the comments on this thread - but it seems that's not what you want ... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 22:00:05 GMT
@faithhopelove - respectfully, I think that you are confusing responses to other points, as both myself and @christie were defending epicgum , who had responded with his view of your post...not defending the person who upset you. “As for OP's, I agree she shouldn't be touched that way if she wasn't feeling comfortable with it but all we know is that she didn't say she was (moreover the only time she rejected it "he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away.., " he understood it's unwanted and ask her to confirm".and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? " and she denied- "I just said, oh, no" and jumped into my car. ) Once again, I don't think it is ok, I'm also pretty much aware that some people FREEZE in such situation, but don't you think that guy might have thought they're on the same page? He clearly wanted a hook up so sexual behavior isn't something shocking if he thought she's receptive. Is it ok to judge him as a disgusting creep?” Above. You’re directly addressing me here. Not Epic @christie was referring to APs freezing in difficult situations and how that may be misinterpreted by another and that maybe conclusions have been reached without fair consideration. A few written paragraphs of a scenario can be interpreted in different ways and some posters are offering other possible reasoning as to why the guy acted as he did and that it isn't always fair to label someone due to something they do on one occasion. No-one had said it's OK to grope. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 22:02:07 GMT
@faithhopelove - respectfully, I think that you are confusing responses to other points, as both myself and @christie were defending epicgum , who had responded with his view of your post...not defending the person who upset you. It definitely seems that way to me, and as far as you saying I didn’t communicate a boundary...doesn’t give one a stranger a right to put theirs hands all over me. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Nov 15, 2018 22:11:11 GMT
Juniper is using sarcasm in her response bc your remarks are ridiculous and cannot be addressed seriously with common sense intact...it’s just too laughable. That’s the truth. No sarcasm there If your view of my comments is that they are "laughable", and that sarcasm is acceptable even if it leads to forum members deleting their accounts, that is your view. Situations are rarely black & white (which is a very AP thing, BTW)(and this IS the AP section) and the discussion was around different experiences and views of your experience. There's a lot of learning material in the comments on this thread - but it seems that's not what you want ... That “learning material” if we can use that phrase went askew and was used as an excuse to accept unacceptable behavior. I try to learn when something valuable is offered. My situation. Black and white as a zebra |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 22:22:07 GMT
If your view of my comments is that they are "laughable", and that sarcasm is acceptable even if it leads to forum members deleting their accounts, that is your view. Situations are rarely black & white (which is a very AP thing, BTW)(and this IS the AP section) and the discussion was around different experiences and views of your experience. There's a lot of learning material in the comments on this thread - but it seems that's not what you want ... That “learning material” if we can use that phrase went askew and was used as an excuse to accept unacceptable behavior. I try to learn when something valuable is offered. My situation. Black and white as a zebra No-one was suggesting to accept unacceptable behaviour! I would've told the guy where to go - which you didn't - the discussion was around the understanding and processes in learning when and how to do that ... but that is clearly not what you wanted from your post. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Nov 15, 2018 22:26:06 GMT
That “learning material” if we can use that phrase went askew and was used as an excuse to accept unacceptable behavior. I try to learn when something valuable is offered. My situation. Black and white as a zebra No-one was suggesting to accept unacceptable behaviour! I would've told the guy where to go - which you didn't - the discussion was around the understanding and processes in learning when and how to do that ... but that is clearly not what you wanted from your post. Oh, I was grateful to accept and appreciated the wise and well-intentioned advice on how to handle situations like this in the future- I found it deplorable that anyone would either defend him or feel my body language was open to “misunderstanding.” Sounds like the excuse of a rapist. |
|
liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
|
Post by liz on Nov 15, 2018 22:45:41 GMT
Incredible...there are so many issues all conflated here.
1. Physical or non-physical boundaries MUST be respected, *always*. Even spouses should seek and receive consent from their partners before insisting on sexual advances. Anything less = Molestation or Rape. Not to mention a complete stranger on a first date!
Those on the receiving end of unwanted sexual touching, men or women, can be very much traumatized by the experience. I still cannot forget or get over the times when I was molested by strangers, even from when I was young. Beyond having one's boundaries violated and disrespected, there is accompanying fear and the feeling of helplessness, and later loathing - this goes right deep into the limbic system. The unwanted feeling of being touched by somebody triggers nausea and disgust - this is why it is "disgusting", and why terms like "creep" or "perv" are used to describe those who feel no qualms about violating others' boundaries sexually. Their behavior deserves the disgust, and if they cannot undo their aggressive personality, they deserve the labels.
2. The other completely unrelated topic that got conflated is the issue of rejection, and rejection springs painfully from the limbic system as well when triggered. However, OP wasn't rejecting the date, she was rejecting the violation of her boundaries and his unwanted aggression towards her. She was defending herself. She might not feel attraction for him, but that's par for the course - every one of us will be rejected by some one in our lives, fairly or unfairly. We need to accept the will and boundaries of others, learn our lessons and move on to others who will accept us. If too many people are rejecting us, we should perhaps look deep within ourselves to try to understand if we have taken on mal-adaptive habits and defenses.
3. Absolutely, we are all grown ups and we should grow a thicker skin and either stay to defend our ground in courteous exchange or exit the kitchen when it gets too hot; there are other threads to hang out, such as the "supportive" "huggy" ones.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 22:48:49 GMT
If it was that bad, go to the police.
Otherwise, learn to recognise and defend your boundaries - the discussion was actually about perceptions around that.
Plus also, @faithhopelove, check your facts - such as where you stated I posted statements that I didn't.
|
|
liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
|
Post by liz on Nov 15, 2018 22:54:34 GMT
If it was that bad, go to the police. Otherwise, learn to recognise and defend your boundaries - the discussion was actually about perceptions around that. Plus also, check your facts - such as where you stated I posted statements that I didn't. This is discourteous and hyperbolic. Seriously, OP or anyone of us should go to the police because she expresses displeasure about being groped by a stranger?
Another unmentioned fact - it is precisely because most of these casual encounters short of a rape are not serious crimes in the sense that the police do not as a rule, pursue them, that the pervs get away with most of their perverse deeds.
The confusion is yours - rejecting violation of one's boundaries, aka an act of self-defense is NOT the same as rejecting someone for being lesser.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 22:56:31 GMT
If it was that bad, go to the police. Otherwise, learn to recognise and defend your boundaries - the discussion was actually about perceptions around that. Plus also, @faithhopelove, check your facts - such as where you stated I posted statements that I didn't. Very empathetic of you....yes, sarcasm and passive aggression. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:03:51 GMT
If it was that bad, go to the police. Otherwise, learn to recognise and defend your boundaries - the discussion was actually about perceptions around that. Plus also, check your facts - such as where you stated I posted statements that I didn't. This is discourteous and hyperbolic. Seriously, OP or anyone of us should go to the police because she expresses displeasure about being groped by a stranger?
I am not giving my time to this discussion any longer The OP accused me in more than one post of things I didn't do plus stated that being sarcastic is fine, even if it leads to a member deleting their account. I'm not going to be accused of things that are not true (see above post), I've been where this poster has been and a whole, whole lot worse - but am now able to respect / protect and defend my boundaries - which the poster didn't - because I worked hard at it. if the OP doesn't want to learn HOW to do that, that is her choice. But I have better thing to do than be further attacked. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:06:10 GMT
You're using sarcasm to be passive aggressive towards others. You assumed what he meant, asked for no explanations. The fact that someone wants to show you a different perspective, it doesn't mean they suddenly support sexual harassment. I, at least, understood it differently. Maybe I misunderstood him too. I don't know. But I think he was focusing on a more intuitive, bigger picture. He's against dehumanization of a person (and if you dehumanize someone it's as low a human being can get, there's nothing good about it and in history it led to awful actions, I think one should strive to avoid it). As for OP's, I agree she shouldn't be touched that way if she wasn't feeling comfortable with it but all we know is that she didn't say she was (moreover the only time she rejected it "he tried to kissed me and I turned my head away.., " he understood it's unwanted and ask her to confirm" .and he said I guess I’m too affectionate for you? " and she denied- "I just said, oh, no" and jumped into my car. ) Once again, I don't think it is ok, I'm also pretty much aware that some people FREEZE in such situation, but don't you think that guy might have thought they're on the same page? He clearly wanted a hook up so sexual behavior isn't something shocking if he thought she's receptive. Is it ok to judge him as a disgusting creep? In such case I don't think epicgum should be attacked for point this out. And FWIW, I had a friend (female) who once was offended by a guy who wanted to take it slow even though she was throwing herself at him on the first date. Later she ruled he must be gay. Now, 1) she's less likely be judged as disgusting because she is a she, even if the guy was uncomfortable with it (maybe we should assume that no guy would be uncomfortable with it?) 2) as epicgum said "one person's "too fast" is another person's "too slow" in many things" even though both the OP's guy was too fast, and my friend was too fast- they would have been perfect for each other. You can say "but she would be ok with that, her boundaries are untouched" - the thing is, he might (OR MIGHT NOT) have thought that with OP- once again, boundaries weren't communicated Juniper is using sarcasm in her response bc your remarks are ridiculous and cannot be addressed seriously with common sense intact...it’s just too laughable. That’s the truth. No sarcasm there yep! 😂 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:10:04 GMT
If it was that bad, go to the police. Otherwise, learn to recognise and defend your boundaries - the discussion was actually about perceptions around that. Plus also, @faithhopelove, check your facts - such as where you stated I posted statements that I didn't. Very empathetic of you....yes, sarcasm and passive aggression. In response to being blamed for something I didn't do, my comments labelled and when providing help on how to learn to protect your boundaries. Nad being told it's OK to be sarcastic such that another forum member deleted their post. I am merely defending my boundaries, |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:11:02 GMT
Juniper is using sarcasm in her response bc your remarks are ridiculous and cannot be addressed seriously with common sense intact...it’s just too laughable. That’s the truth. No sarcasm there yep! 😂 I see that you're happy another member deleted their account because of you then, juniper. |
|
